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340 - Bloodthirster - Armor of Scorn, Immense Power
180 - Demon Prince - Wings, Skullreaver (-1 CP)

193 - 24 Bloodletters - Instrument, Banner of Blood (-1 CP), Denizens (-2 CP)
193 - 24 Bloodletters - Instrument, Banner of Blood (-1 CP), Denizens (-2 CP)
70 - 10 Bloodletters

75 - Exalted Champion of Khorne - Power Axe, Chainsword
76 - Dark Apostle of Khorne - Brass Collar of Borghaster (-1 CP)

157 - 8 Khorne Berzerkers - x8 Chainswords, x7 Chainaxes, Power Fist, Icon
157 - 8 Khorne Berzerkers - x8 Chainswords, x7 Chainaxes, Power Fist, Icon
157 - 8 Khorne Berzerkers - x8 Chainswords, x7 Chainaxes, Power Fist, Icon
74 - Khorne Rhino - x2 Combi-bolter
74 - Khorne Rhino - x2 Combi-bolter
74 - Khorne Rhino - x2 Combi-bolter

180 - Blood Slaughterer - Slaughterblade

2000
6 CP

My personal take: you have very little shooting and everything hits turn 2 (including your bloodletter bomb). You are going to have one huge massive jam on turn 2 as all your models compete with each other to get into combat ... with the very first screen of fodder/guardsmen, who will heroically die.

So, at best, it will be turn 3 before your army gets to the good stuff, if its lucky. If its not because your opponent managed to kill all your berzerkers and was able to set up a second line of screens, it will be turn 4 before you get to his good stuff...

Stuff that might be worth testing:
The hellbrute seems a bit slow, maybe a maulerfiend instead?

Insensate rage seems expensive. A herald to drop down with your blob, and another 25 blob might be a better choice?

Have a rhino with 2x 5 berzerkers. gets you an extra powerfist + you can drop down blobs of five at a time choosing different targets. Works great against elite armies. Bad against hordes like orcs.

I'd have to drop more Bloodletters to turn that Helbrute into a Maulerfiend, but that'd probably be better.

A Herald costs another command point and doesn't reach combat on the turn it charges with the blob. If I had 2 bloodletter blobs that'd be useful, but two is twice as much as I've needed. I've found that 30 is often too many.

If I dropped the Helbrute and replaced the Bloodthirster with another Demon Prince I'd have 282 points left.

The herald is not to arrive in melee turn 2, it is for his buff and re-roll charge range that I would take him. (just make sure one bloodletters finished the charge move still within his bubble)

A second blob of bloodletters is a second big threat. 2 units of 10 will probably be ignored and wont do much for you either except filling the battalion/ hold objectives and to hold objectives cheaper options are available.

The second prince might not be a bad idea as he cannot be targeted. 1 thirster is likely to be shot down turn 1. It is not that hard to do 16 wounds for some shooty armies.
If you have leftover pts, A helldrake with flamer might be worth considering. not that it does a lot of damage. But it is a great unit to tie up some shooty units in melee turn 1 while your stuff is still moving up. and a poorly positioned character can be punished severely with that flamer+charge.

Some cultists to park on objectives might be nice to have? Especially as your list says move forward. if your opponent takes the side were some objectives are close or in your deployment zone, you do not have to waste possible threats and they are twice as cheap as bloodletters, and if the manage to damage/kill something I always feel happy having defied the odds

The Herald's reroll to charge buff is irrelevant with the Banner of Blood. Rerolling a 3d6 charge range to make a 9" charge is unnecessary. +1 Strength is likewise unnecessary. I've used Bloodletter blobs between 20 and 30 strong with and without a Herald and they really don't need all of that investment. A 20-man unit dropped below 20 during overwatch and without Herald support can still clean out a unit easily in my experience.

A second blob of bloodletters sure is a threat, but I'd need a target. I've had games where I've struggled to place 30 bloodletters on the board, I have no idea what I'd do with another unit of 30! With 2 S5 AP-3 attacks for 7pts each, I could send them after anything that isn't a vehicle and be fine, but I try to take advantage of their high AP. The 2 units of 10 are often ignored and end up being very helpful because they make it to combat without any casualties.

I've never had my Bloodthirster shot down in 1 turn before and I can always give him a 3++ against very shooty enemies. Part of the point of the Bloodthirster is to soak up shots and be a target to distract from the Rhinos. With only a Blood Slaughterer, 3 Rhinos, and a Helbrute it's much easier choosing what to shoot at. The Heldrake is awfully expensive for just tying up a unit, and it's even more expensive with a Baleflamer.

I definitely could add cultists instead of the Helbrute. I could have 3 units of them.

 Kharneth wrote:
The Herald's reroll to charge buff is irrelevant with the Banner of Blood. Rerolling a 3d6 charge range to make a 9" charge is unnecessary.

I have rolled a 3 on the 3D6 charge roll with no CP remaining. No, it is not unnecessary (in a game where the dice will take every opportunity to feth you) to make doubly sure you will do something. If something is worth doing, it's worth making sure it gets done. A Herald is also pretty great in close combat, but any nearby character is going to give you a re-roll to your charge so all you really have to do is position correctly and you'll be fine.

I encourage the use of 40 World Eater Cultists. They mulch whatever they touch, it's hilarious, and when they get low you just bring them all back and do it all again. Triple S unit right there.

I'm considering it. The problem I'm having with the Bloodthirster is it's an expensive unit to find a target for. It'll chop through anything, but it often can't kill 340 points worth of enemies. Replacing it with a Demon Prince might be a better way to spread the damage around, though that'll restrict my enemy's target options.

If I took 2 blobs of 20-30 bloodletters and a unit of 10 to fill out the battalion, I could take a bloodmaster to buff both units for the bonus strength and almost guarantee a successful charge with each.

So:

180 - Demon Prince - Armor of Scorn, Immense Power, x2 Malefic Claws
56 - Bloodmaster - Denizens (-1 CP)
165 - 20 Bloodletters - Instrument, Banner of Blood (-1 CP), Denizens (-1 CP)
165 - 20 Bloodletters - Instrument, Banner of Blood (-1 CP), Denizens (-1 CP)
70 - 10 Bloodletters

75 - Exalted Champion - Power Axe, Chainsword
76 - Dark Apostle
157 - 8 Berzerkers - x8 Chainswords, x7 Chainaxes, Power Fist, Icon
157 - 8 Berzerkers - x8 Chainswords, x7 Chainaxes, Power Fist, Icon
157 - 8 Berzerkers - x8 Chainswords, x7 Chainaxes, Power Fist, Icon
72 - Rhino
72 - Rhino
72 - Rhino

1474 points, leaving me 525. Now I have only 3 rhinos on the field, though, and will need to saturate that a lot more. I could add another Demon Prince, but that'll leave my Rhinos out there.

What would I do with 40 World Eaters Cultists? I'm guessing you'd give them melee weapons for 3 attacks on the charge?

 Kharneth wrote:
The Herald's reroll to charge buff is irrelevant with the Banner of Blood. Rerolling a 3d6 charge range to make a 9" charge is unnecessary. +1 Strength is likewise unnecessary. I've used Bloodletter blobs between 20 and 30 strong with and without a Herald and they really don't need all of that investment. A 20-man unit dropped below 20 during overwatch and without Herald support can still clean out a unit easily in my experience.

A second blob of bloodletters sure is a threat, but I'd need a target. I've had games where I've struggled to place 30 bloodletters on the board, I have no idea what I'd do with another unit of 30! With 2 S5 AP-3 attacks for 7pts each, I could send them after anything that isn't a vehicle and be fine, but I try to take advantage of their high AP. The 2 units of 10 are often ignored and end up being very helpful because they make it to combat without any casualties.

I've never had my Bloodthirster shot down in 1 turn before and I can always give him a 3++ against very shooty enemies. Part of the point of the Bloodthirster is to soak up shots and be a target to distract from the Rhinos. With only a Blood Slaughterer, 3 Rhinos, and a Helbrute it's much easier choosing what to shoot at. The Heldrake is awfully expensive for just tying up a unit, and it's even more expensive with a Baleflamer.

I definitely could add cultists instead of the Helbrute. I could have 3 units of them.

It seems we live in a completely different meta. Where I play, I have recently lost 2 thirsters in one turn + a rhino (vs eldar and I imagine death guard or DA would not have a much problem doing the same in 2 turns)... I have also been cleaned out turn 2 (vs AM) but that was before the FAQ but I am sure that player would have found something equally nasty by now.

I wish you the best of luck on your tournament. let us know how it went.

 minisnatcher wrote:

 Kharneth wrote:
The Herald's reroll to charge buff is irrelevant with the Banner of Blood. Rerolling a 3d6 charge range to make a 9" charge is unnecessary. +1 Strength is likewise unnecessary. I've used Bloodletter blobs between 20 and 30 strong with and without a Herald and they really don't need all of that investment. A 20-man unit dropped below 20 during overwatch and without Herald support can still clean out a unit easily in my experience.

A second blob of bloodletters sure is a threat, but I'd need a target. I've had games where I've struggled to place 30 bloodletters on the board, I have no idea what I'd do with another unit of 30! With 2 S5 AP-3 attacks for 7pts each, I could send them after anything that isn't a vehicle and be fine, but I try to take advantage of their high AP. The 2 units of 10 are often ignored and end up being very helpful because they make it to combat without any casualties.

I've never had my Bloodthirster shot down in 1 turn before and I can always give him a 3++ against very shooty enemies. Part of the point of the Bloodthirster is to soak up shots and be a target to distract from the Rhinos. With only a Blood Slaughterer, 3 Rhinos, and a Helbrute it's much easier choosing what to shoot at. The Heldrake is awfully expensive for just tying up a unit, and it's even more expensive with a Baleflamer.

I definitely could add cultists instead of the Helbrute. I could have 3 units of them.

It seems we live in a completely different meta. Where I play, I have recently lost 2 thirsters in one turn + a rhino (vs eldar and I imagine death guard or DA would not have a much problem doing the same in 2 turns)... I have also been cleaned out turn 2 (vs AM) but that was before the FAQ but I am sure that player would have found something equally nasty by now.

I wish you the best of luck on your tournament. let us know how it went.

I have not participated in a tournament, yet.

Khorne Demon Battalion Detachment (-2 CP)
180 - Demon Prince of Khorne - Wings, Skullreaver, Rage Incarnate
56 - Bloodmaster - Denizens (-1 CP)

214 - 27 Bloodletters - Instrument, Banner of Blood (-1 CP), Denizens (-2 CP)
214 - 27 Bloodletters - Instrument, Banner of Blood (-1 CP), Denizens (-2 CP)
70 - 10 Bloodletters

120 - 8 Flesh Hounds

World Eaters Battalion Detachment (+4 CP)
75 - Exalted Champion of Khorne - Power Axe, Chainsword
76 - Dark Apostle of Khorne - Brass Collar of Borghaster (-1 CP)

157 - 8 Khorne Berzerkers - x8 Chainswords, x7 Chainaxes, Power Fist, Icon
157 - 8 Khorne Berzerkers - x8 Chainswords, x7 Chainaxes, Power Fist, Icon
157 - 8 Khorne Berzerkers - x8 Chainswords, x7 Chainaxes, Power Fist, Icon
72 - Khorne Rhino
72 - Khorne Rhino
72 - Khorne Rhino

180 - Blood Slaughterer - Slaughterblade

125 - Vindicator

1997
5 CP

That extra bloodletter unit and herald really hike up the CP cost for the demons, but I have 5 remaining. I could drop the Collar, but without Armor of Scorn I feel like I might not have enough physic defense. I have not used the Vindicator, but it seems pretty cheap and it'll be another rhino-body. Alternatively, I could've taken the Skull Cannon, but a Vindicator gives me 10 bloodletters something to baby sit.

I outfit 19 Cultists with autoguns and 19 + champ with close combat weapons. Chances are you are only going to get about 20 into melee combat regardless of what you assault, so having the extra firepower behind the melee lines is a nice little addon (and when you pull them from the back it hurts less).

Kharneth wrote:340 - Bloodthirster - Armor of Scorn, Immense Power
180 - Demon Prince - Wings, Skullreaver (-1 CP)

193 - 24 Bloodletters - Instrument, Banner of Blood (-1 CP), Denizens (-2 CP)
193 - 24 Bloodletters - Instrument, Banner of Blood (-1 CP), Denizens (-2 CP)
70 - 10 Bloodletters

75 - Exalted Champion of Khorne - Power Axe, Chainsword
76 - Dark Apostle of Khorne - Brass Collar of Borghaster (-1 CP)

157 - 8 Khorne Berzerkers - x8 Chainswords, x7 Chainaxes, Power Fist, Icon
157 - 8 Khorne Berzerkers - x8 Chainswords, x7 Chainaxes, Power Fist, Icon
157 - 8 Khorne Berzerkers - x8 Chainswords, x7 Chainaxes, Power Fist, Icon
74 - Khorne Rhino - x2 Combi-bolter
74 - Khorne Rhino - x2 Combi-bolter
74 - Khorne Rhino - x2 Combi-bolter

180 - Blood Slaughterer - Slaughterblade

2000
6 CP

So, I tried out the Herald and again I don't like him. He keeps getting out of range for my Bloodletters and I wanted to split them up so there was only one unit that was going to get the buff anyway. Plus, S5 to 6 isn't much of a difference. Most enemies are t4. Getting 2+ to wound on t3 foes is usually unnecessary and fighting enemies with t5 is uncommon enough. However, I did enjoy having 2 bloodletter blobs to throw out. It might've been too many for a 1500 pt list, but I think it'll be nice for a 2k list.

I have yet to have my Bloodthirster shot off the board, in fact, he's never failed to reach combat and has, at most, only lost ~8 wounds to shooting. I'll bring him to the tournament and we'll see what happens. Even if he does get shot up, I feel like it'll be enough work on my opponent's part that the rest of my army should safely make it to combat, which will hurt.

Basically I replaced the Helbrute by filling in one of my bloodletter units.

Bloodthirster can kill superheavy vehicles or infantry, Demon Prince can kill moderate vehicles and infantry, Blood Slaughterer can kill moderate vehicles and infantry, Berzerkers can kill moderate vehicles and infantry, and Bloodletters can kill light vehicles and infantry.

 Kharneth wrote:

Kharneth wrote:340 - Bloodthirster - Armor of Scorn, Immense Power


Bloodthirster can kill superheavy vehicles or infantry, Demon Prince can kill moderate vehicles and infantry, Blood Slaughterer can kill moderate vehicles and infantry, Berzerkers can kill moderate vehicles and infantry, and Bloodletters can kill light vehicles and infantry.

So thinking for competitive play you need at least 2 options for everything, you might need a second option here to kill superheavies. For lists like mortarion-magnus tag team or when facing multiple knights/super heavies?

You could go for rhino with 10 berzerkers, skip one unit with rhino and add a maulerfiend or second blood slaughterer. 2 slaughterers, or slaughterer+ maulerfiend should be able to handle a knight if they have support from that prince.

But again, this depends heavily on the local meta.

 minisnatcher wrote:

 Kharneth wrote:

Kharneth wrote:340 - Bloodthirster - Armor of Scorn, Immense Power


Bloodthirster can kill superheavy vehicles or infantry, Demon Prince can kill moderate vehicles and infantry, Blood Slaughterer can kill moderate vehicles and infantry, Berzerkers can kill moderate vehicles and infantry, and Bloodletters can kill light vehicles and infantry.

So thinking for competitive play you need at least 2 options for everything, you might need a second option here to kill superheavies. For lists like mortarion-magnus tag team or when facing multiple knights/super heavies?

You could go for rhino with 10 berzerkers, skip one unit with rhino and add a maulerfiend or second blood slaughterer. 2 slaughterers, or slaughterer+ maulerfiend should be able to handle a knight if they have support from that prince.

But again, this depends heavily on the local meta.

I do not know how many superheavies I will face. I've never fought a knight or many titanic models, but I did recently face a shadowsword, failed some charge rolls and got blown off the table. The 4 berzerkers that made it there dealt 17 wounds (and used 4 command points). I'm actually not sure what's the best thing against a superheavy because if I had taken the Bloodthirster it would've gotten a volcano cannon to the face and disappeared.

So, I do think most of my units are very capable of killing... anything. And they're all fast. The Exalted Champion and Dark Apostle can't do much more than support and the Bloodletters are the weakest anti-tank I can see (other than my rhinos), but with 30+ ap-3 attacks they'll still do plenty of damage.

I would love a 2nd Blood Slaughterer! I can't tell if it'd be better to have that or a 2nd Demon Prince.