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I am returning to 40k, rustily, after a hiatus. I’ve only played a few games of 8th so far. I want to create a very fluffy, siege-style, Iron Warriors army. I have a small core I’d to build off of. I’d like to be competitive to the point that it doesnt go against the theme. Im not trying to hit an exact point value yet, but rather to plan my next several units. Here’s what I have so far.

HQ:
- Warpsmith w/ Power-maul

Troops:
- Champion w/ Power-fist
- 9 Marines including 2 plasma guns (this could also be 2 squads of 5)
- Rhino w/ Combi-Bolter

Fast:
- 3 bikers with Power Axe and 2 Combi-Meltas

Heavy:
- Predator all Lascannons

Elite:
- 5 terminators (cataphractii)


I know I have a long way to go, but am happy to have these painted up. Any advice will be very appreciated. Thanks!

2 things,
Only Deathguard has cataphracti armour atm, so your terminators are not cataphractii and secondly as far as i know you are not alowed in the CSM codex to change the melee weapon of a warpsmith to a power maul, they only get access to the dakka, sadly, so you are stuck with the power axe.

As for beeing fluffy / (siege-y i guess) it kind of depends, are you in the assult or attrition phase of a siege.
The first one would be more Tanks, more heavy guns, and mostliekly Vindicators.
The attrition siege style would make more use of artilery, thankfully R&H exist (basically chaos IG) which you could take with Basiliks and cheap cannonfodder / screen units. Would also allow you mortars.
You could also go cult of destruction, as in obliterators havocs and vindicators (however they are underwhelming)
Cultists, converted from IG kitbashed do look nice and can fill out troop slots for cheap whilest screening, also you can run a 40 man blob and bring him back one more time via stratagem for a surprise cultist assult.

Thank you! This is exactly what I was looking for. I got a little too into the modeling before trying to put a functional list together. The warpsmith is actually on a juggernaut and just built by what I thought looked cool. I knew the juggernaut was going to be a bust (A-too Khorne, B-I can only find it in the index and not my codex...are they phased out of 40k). So that has to be completely redone. The Terminators are HH models, I just liked how they looked and the legion feel of them. This is my first Chaos army so I’m awful with it.

I really really wanted to get a basilisk in there! They look very iconic to me, I wish I could use the forgeworld legion ones, but I also love the idea of using heritic guard. That being said I suppose I’m more in the attrition mode. It sounds like I should potentially get a vindicator and then shift my focus to the guard, mainly artillery and mortars. Luckily I have a ton of excess IG models I can build with. I was hoping this was something I could do within the rules.

Where are the rules for a fallen guard unit? Is it an Imperial Armour situation? I’m not seeing them in the codex or index.

Again, thank you so much, I have a much more solid direction now.

No worries: They are in the FW index for Astra Militarum, yes they are in the same book as DKoK.

I did recommend you them not because they are good (they are not which pains me really since i started a relativ big project back in 7th and now, well let's just say my lists fudged) but thematically fitting
ALSO: EXTREMELY IMPORTANT: get the FAQ because without it they are literally unplayable, the rest should be in CA, you'll need also ofcourse the AM codex.
BTW there is nothing stoping you using FW legion ones, aslong as you talk to people and play count as regular ones.
However, i really recomend you a very carfull aproach torwards R&H, they are not an army which you can play without a plan or without some maximalizing of effectiveness.
If you want a rundown for some capabilities i could give you one, that said i would reccomend that the heavy duty is pulled by your Iron Warriors.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
You'll find also that Ebooks are a way cheaper way of getting the Index.

Hellforged scorpius has 40k rules and is pretty potent artillery. There is even an iron warriors exclusive one.

Nature's Minister wrote:
Hellforged scorpius has 40k rules and is pretty potent artillery. There is even an iron warriors exclusive one.

True that, however i really dislike the model, it does not feel fitting somehow in a 40 k iron warriors army.
That beeing said, it is a great tank/artilery

The scorpius does look pretty enticing, thanks for pointing it out. I’m a sucker for the chimera and leman russ chassis though.

Way back I remember Space Wolves being able to use Leman Russ tanks, I thought that was so cool! I feel like a basilisk is the Iron Warriors version of that. In my mind I always loved the image of them having a siege battery with dozens of basilisks.

In a highly competitive environment, aren’t Iron Warriors a tiny bit doomed anyway? Their bonus is not so hot from what I see... but I have so little experience with them I may be dead wrong.

That being said, I don’t want to go full 7th ed tyranid mode and assume I’ll just lose without a crazy list.

Roughly thinking 30ish guardsmen, 2 basilisk, 2 leman russ (largely because I have several to spare) maybe demolishers?

RagnarRex wrote:
The scorpius does look pretty enticing, thanks for pointing it out. I’m a sucker for the chimera and leman russ chassis though.

Way back I remember Space Wolves being able to use Leman Russ tanks, I thought that was so cool! I feel like a basilisk is the Iron Warriors version of that. In my mind I always loved the image of them having a siege battery with dozens of basilisks.

In a highly competitive environment, aren’t Iron Warriors a tiny bit doomed anyway? Their bonus is not so hot from what I see... but I have so little experience with them I may be dead wrong.

That being said, I don’t want to go full 7th ed tyranid mode and assume I’ll just lose without a crazy list.

Roughly thinking 30ish guardsmen, 2 basilisk, 2 leman russ (largely because I have several to spare) maybe demolishers?

Militia Squads my friend, you have no guardsmen. (worse but more heavy and special weapons)
i guess a normal detachment, the one with 2 HQ and min 3 Troops could be great.
You can technically run the following

HQ
Renegade commander (chainsword , Autogun) /25pts
Renegade commander (chainsword, Autogun) / 25 pts

Elite
Enforcer (chainsword, Autogun) 30pts
4 commandsquad Commandvox mortar/ 39pts

Troops
50 Mutant rabble (lasgun autogun) 200pts
20 Militia squad 2 hwt mortars vox 95 pts
20 militia squad 2 hwt mortars vox 95 pts

Support
3 basiliks + 3HB's /324 pts
Total: 833 pts.
Gives you additional command points. good non LOS requiring shooting, a 50 man blob that is virtually not killable via morale and if you get lucky has t4.
I never said you will lose automatically, i just said you will need a plan, often times that plan can be as simple as this plan here, force the enemy to move, screen every unit that is important (command Squad and basilisks) and everything that is particulary nasty you tarpit via that huge mutant blob. Btw just because they are mutants dosn't mean you can't use normal guardsmen for that)

I’m liking the looks of this a lot! Are enforcers like commissars? If they can use everything in the guard world, are chimeras worth it at all, to claim objectives and such? Would you take any type of anti-air?

Enforcers are more like the nkvd.
They deny any ANY moral check on r&h infantery at the low price of d3 auto losses.
Chimeras with min sized Elite units like marauders are ok, however overpriced atm, so one or two maybee.
AA is kinda ok

This is sounding awesome!! Thank you so much for all this advice, I was heading down the wrong road.

RagnarRex wrote:
This is sounding awesome!! Thank you so much for all this advice, I was heading down the wrong road.

There is no such thing as a wrong road my friend, only differing paths.
You could also run a more Elite and mechanized version of this and that might be better.
In regards to the AA, well you only get Hydras and IW would need some FW units, but they really depend on your average enemy. Are you facing a lot of Eldar with jetbikes? Tau? yep one or two hydras are going to be usefull, anything that has the "Fly" keyword is very much dead after a salvo of Hydras, that also includes jumpack users etc.
Are you facing footslogging SM or IG, ehh probably not.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
If you would want a more Elite force for around the same price in points and with Basiliks i reccomend the following:
Elite detachement (1min HQ 3 min Elites)
HQ
Renegade commander (Autogun, Chainsword) 25 pts
Elites

6 Marauders (Autoguns, 2 Plasmaguns,) Stalker 50pts
6 Marauders (Autoguns, 2 Plasmaguns,) Stalker 50pts
Chimera Multilaser, Heavybolter 93 pts

6 Marauders (Autoguns, 2 plasmaguns) Stalker 50pts
5 Disciples (Autocannon, Plasmagun, vox) 57pts
Chimera Multilaser, Heavybolter 93

3 Basilisks 3 HB's 324pts
Total 742 pts



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Remember you can now put multiple Squads in a transport vehicle, also this army would need some screening units.
add an
enforcer 30 pts
and 30 cultists 120pts
for a total of 892 pts.
The cultists serve as screen for your basilisks,
the chimeras are filled with the best unit in my opinion that costs 6 pts.
Stalker modfies hit rolls on them from the enemy by -1, on ALL distances and you get an additional +1 for your armor save if you are in cover, making them 3+ if you can hide behind a crater or something.
The disciples can be annoying with their Autocannon and roll 3 d6 + 3 for their morale, so they are highly unlikely to run after beeing dropped, whilest the marauders have " in it for the money" which states that all morale cheks are made on a d6 and if you roll 2+ they make the morale tests, meanwhile if you roll a 1 the whole unit runs.

It really depends on what you want to do.

One thing to consider is going for a Triple Chaos Vindicator Heavy Support. That gives you access to the Linebreaker Bombardment stratagem which can cause a lot of mortal wounds to a cluster of enemies. Vindicators are very fluffy for Iron Warriors, as I feel like every Chaos Codex I've looked at shows a Vindicator painted in Iron Warrior colors!

As @Not Online!!! has said, you can use Renegades and Heretics as allies. I've looked at supplimenting my own Chaos with a R&H force at some point. Ultimately, I would avoid an elite heavy formation, your Chaos Space Marine Iron Warriors will make better elites, what R&H offers you are artillery and cheap bodies, which can be translated into Command Points. If you take a decent size R&H force, you are heavily rewarded for making your Commander a Warlord. That will unlock a Chaos Covenant for your Troopers which puts them a bit more on par with where they need to be. You also aren't incentivised to play aggressively with a Renegade Commander, so he can hide away from the enemy and make Slay the Warlord more difficult for your enemy to achieve while your Chaos Lords and Daemon Princes mix it up. As for the actual covenants, Slaanesh or Tzeentch seem like the best. Tzeentch lets you overwatch on a 5+ (which is as effective as your regular shooting) and Slaanesh lets you roll an extra dice and take the highest when advancing or charging. In my opinion Slaanesh is the clear winner since on Militia squads you can take 2 flamers per 10 guys, and your ballistic skill is a horrible 5+ anyway, so being able to move faster with a more reliable advance and still fire 2d6 or 4d6 flamer shots depending on the size of your mob is pretty decent. That gives you a decent number of cheap fast screening units who can burn anything that gets close, and you can load up heavy support with Basilisks and Renegade Mortar Teams.

Since you aren't opposed to Forge World, you can probably run your Jugger mounted Warpsmith as a Chaos Hellwright on Dark Abeyant from the Chaos Forgeworld book. Hes a pretty dope model. Expensive, but lots of guns and tougher than a Warp Smith. Just mount a laser gun on your Jugger and call it a Void Lance One thing to keep in mind, is that your Warpsmith is unable to repair Renegade Tanks due to the restrictions on his healing. This also applies to the Forge World Hellwrights. Although the Hellwrights can repair Renegade Knights if you wanted to add one of those.

As for the Terminators, it doesn't matter. As long as you use the rules for regular terminators you can field, nobody will care if the pattern is technically cataphractii.

Really there is a lot you can do to make a really cool Iron Warriors force. I won't hazard a guess as to the most competitive, but ignoring cover modifiers is one of the better legion traits available. As somebody who plays a lot with Noise Marines, it comes up quite often, it denies cover to your opponents and compared to other armies its often equivalent to having an extra Ap -1 on all your guns. Try throwing some lists together, see what you like and figure out where to go from there!

 akaean wrote:
It really depends on what you want to do.

One thing to consider is going for a Triple Chaos Vindicator Heavy Support. That gives you access to the Linebreaker Bombardment stratagem which can cause a lot of mortal wounds to a cluster of enemies. Vindicators are very fluffy for Iron Warriors, as I feel like every Chaos Codex I've looked at shows a Vindicator painted in Iron Warrior colors!

As @Not Online!!! has said, you can use Renegades and Heretics as allies. I've looked at supplimenting my own Chaos with a R&H force at some point. Ultimately, I would avoid an elite heavy formation, your Chaos Space Marine Iron Warriors will make better elites, what R&H offers you are artillery and cheap bodies, which can be translated into Command Points. If you take a decent size R&H force, you are heavily rewarded for making your Commander a Warlord. That will unlock a Chaos Covenant for your Troopers which puts them a bit more on par with where they need to be. You also aren't incentivised to play aggressively with a Renegade Commander, so he can hide away from the enemy and make Slay the Warlord more difficult for your enemy to achieve while your Chaos Lords and Daemon Princes mix it up. As for the actual covenants, Slaanesh or Tzeentch seem like the best. Tzeentch lets you overwatch on a 5+ (which is as effective as your regular shooting) and Slaanesh lets you roll an extra dice and take the highest when advancing or charging. In my opinion Slaanesh is the clear winner since on Militia squads you can take 2 flamers per 10 guys, and your ballistic skill is a horrible 5+ anyway, so being able to move faster with a more reliable advance and still fire 2d6 or 4d6 flamer shots depending on the size of your mob is pretty decent. That gives you a decent number of cheap fast screening units who can burn anything that gets close, and you can load up heavy support with Basilisks and Renegade Mortar Teams.

Since you aren't opposed to Forge World, you can probably run your Jugger mounted Warpsmith as a Chaos Hellwright on Dark Abeyant from the Chaos Forgeworld book. Hes a pretty dope model. Expensive, but lots of guns and tougher than a Warp Smith. Just mount a laser gun on your Jugger and call it a Void Lance One thing to keep in mind, is that your Warpsmith is unable to repair Renegade Tanks due to the restrictions on his healing. This also applies to the Forge World Hellwrights. Although the Hellwrights can repair Renegade Knights if you wanted to add one of those.

As for the Terminators, it doesn't matter. As long as you use the rules for regular terminators you can field, nobody will care if the pattern is technically cataphractii.

Really there is a lot you can do to make a really cool Iron Warriors force. I won't hazard a guess as to the most competitive, but ignoring cover modifiers is one of the better legion traits available. As somebody who plays a lot with Noise Marines, it comes up quite often, it denies cover to your opponents and compared to other armies its often equivalent to having an extra Ap -1 on all your guns. Try throwing some lists together, see what you like and figure out where to go from there!

I agree with nearly anything, except the slanesh covenant and vindicators.

Firstly: the vindicators just suck atm, even with the linebreaker stratagem there is no going around that. Horribly overpriced for a really bad ammount of firepower.They suffer from ROF syndrome.

Secondly: Slaanesh would be usefull, if R&H troop quality wasn't this lackluster, as for flamers, no just don't, you pay waaaaaay to much pts for auto hits that also limit your range and belive me you don't want to close the gap, ever period, not even aggainst Tau with slaanesh covenant. The only decent options for slaanesh is taking cultists instead, which require a NKVD Officererrrm i mean Morale Improver aka Enforcer.

And here is a more R&H specific problem, why use a Elite slot, in which you can fill in Marauders, Disciples for long range At and more SW, Command Squads for the same and additional the whole battlefield encompassing morale buffs and Ogrynberserkers.
Mind you i am not saying Enforcers are bad, but you need bigger Squads then 30 man cultist blobs to make the most of them. At the same time they hinder you substantially in the firepower department.

Thirdly: NO R&H elite is better ppm value, especially Marauders can do an equal ammount of heavy lifting whilest beeing less then half a marine in cost.

Fourth: Why would you want a reroll on advance or charge movements, when your troops are so bad in melee that you are acctively hurting yourself.

IF you want to go full on mass assult take Khorne. The +1 to strength is way more usefull, especially when you consider that most enemies want to fill the gap if you run an obscene ammount of mortars. This brings him in range of your squads and then you charge, preferably with a backup Banner so to make losses hurt the enemy even more with S4 hits in melee. The key is to force the enemy to do something, that is the function R&H armies can fullfill, aswell as dirt cheap CP farms, but even those you can fill with mortars to get the same effect.
There are only 1 decent special weapons choice on militia squads, these are nade launchers. HWT's on the other hand are doing significantly better in militia squads, especcially mortars and heavy stubbers. Stubbers mainly because they significantly increase dakka output for nothing in pts. and Mortars, well because you can hide the squad out of LOS and set killzones up, via obscene ammounts of dakka, requires a lot of LOS cover tho. Still Mortars are the way to go.

I'll cede your point on Vindicators. They random number of shots is pretty rough, and even if you get a good linebreaker bombardment off its unlikely to make up for giving up the shooting on 3 Vindicators. And its too easy to shut down the stratagem by simply killing a single vindicator.

As for your other points, I think it comes down to a fundamental different way of looking at what Renegades and Heretics has to offer. When I see them, I basically see a cheap squad with horrible accuracy who have decent access to auto hitting weapons. In my eyes, Slaanesh Militia are fast, which is great in Maelstrom where that more reliable advance may make a very big difference in closing in on an objective, and I am hesitant to put any weapon other than a flamer on them when they are hitting on a 5+, even mortars. I'd rather take pure mortar heavy teams as they can hide out of line of sight.. The only thing Militia can offer over Imperial Guardsmen and Cultists is being faster and additional weapon access and options. This is especially true when considering the unique Iron Warriors Warlord Trait, "Cold and Bitter" which will make all Iron Warriors Codex Cultists immune to moral when within 6 inches of the Warlord. The way I see it, R&H troops are either a tax to get access to additional CP in the form of an extra Battalion and access to R&H artillery pieces and heavy support. Otherwise you are better off just sticking with cultists who can benefit from the "Cold and Bitter" Warlord trait to ignore the moral phase and re spawn with Tide of Traitors....

I suppose all things considered, just take R&H Spearhead formations to get artillery into your list, and let your Iron Warriors get command points and supply bubble wrap with cultists who both ignore moral thanks to Cold and Bitter, and have access to the "tide of traitors" stratagem. Ultimately you are going to get more mileage out of Iron Warriors Cultists than you will out of Renegade and Heretics Militia or Mutant Squads.

My issue with Marauders is that while I agree with you that point for point they are very good, I'm not sold that they are better than a Chaos equivalent specialists. ESPECIALLY Slaaneshi Obliterators. Although they are expensive, Obliterators can threaten every unit in the game, especially if you combo Veterans of the Long War and Endless Cacophony and shoot with full effectiveness from 24 inches. As far as effective shooting units go, Slaaneshi Obliterators are in contention to be one of the best in the game right now.

Marauders also are very dependent on a transport to get them into rapid fire range. If you add in the cost of the transport, it costs a lot more points to deliver marauders into optimal range than a 125 point Raptor Squad with 2 Plasma Guns and 2 Plasma Pistols deep striking. Or 116 point 3 man Biker Squad with 2 Plasma Guns and a Combi Plasma. Depending on your needs, you might prefer a Deep Striking Raptor Squad or Chaos Biker Squad to Marauders because they are more self sufficient delivery systems for piping hot plasma death.

EDIT: I suppose I should clarify that when I was referring to "elites" I wasn't necessarily referring to the Elites choice in the various armies. Rather I was referring to a much more generic idea of a unit which is more elite than a basic troop.

A: Mortar ignore LOS, there is no problem of taking a 10 man squad and a mortar for 45 pts and hunker down behind a building. Infact the Squadsize helps with denying landing area for teleports. Also you addmited to the fact of heavy support beeing provided. If we are going for that scheme i'd also like to point out that Rnegade Heavy Weapon Squads with mortars are more efficient then Wyvern's.
Side note, a flamer forces your hand as in you need to move, something that is bad for r&h. Mortars or nade launchers don't force you to move, generate equal ammount of shots, and whilest they might miss more that still are a lot of shots they vomit out. On top of that if we run the math over multiple rounds both the mortar and nade launcher will get more shots of whilest it will be questionable to get your flammers in the right spot. Also don't forget that you pay significantly more for flamers then you do for Heavy Stubbers, Mortars and nade launchers.
Additionally on the nade launcher you also can advance and shoot, don't forget it is also assult and on top of that you get Krak nades.

B: Spearhead, is a good choice, mainly for IG tanks, don't let you fool you tho a 5cp PLatton detachment is all in all only
50 pts for 2 renegade commanders.
120 for 3 militia Squads and an additional 15 pts for mortars who can shoot the whole game. So not only do i get 5 CP i get backfield secuirity and a constant flow of anti infantery shells for a measly 185 pts. Now you have enough slots for tanks, why not also run that cute little salamander?

C: 3 Obliterators are 225 pts.
for that ammount i can take 30 Marauders, and their additional weaponry. (180 pts for the marauders, the rest is free pts.)
They have no problem with morale, meaning they can secure and hold an objective. Something Obliterators can not, simply because of the lack of wounds and anti inf ROF.
they can be kitted out to deal with anything, meanwhile Obliterators are a one trick pony.
they get a constant -1 BS for the enemy and additional armor from cover. Which is in many cases better then the 2+ armor that Obliterators have.
I have filled a full spearhead detachment with them. They are better in Melee. (2 attacks per marauder on 3 +, on top of the fact that overwatch against them is not working.)
They have more overall ROF meaning that tarpitting them is going to be considerable more annoying and will bind more enemies then Obliterators.
So tell me again, except for AT and MC hunting where are Obliterators better?
Oh and BTW i can get a fully kitted Valkrire for 144pts. and fill it with 2 Marauder Squads, whith shotguns for clearing a objective or autoguns for holding something aswell as 2 plasma guns or meltas.
Or you know you could always take an arvus, fast agile difficult to hit and can be euquipped with autocannons. Meanwhile after oblits have ported in they move at Terminator pace.

ALSO worth mentioning is, that slaneshi obliterators are only this good because of a Stratagem and in this case i am willing to bet my baneblade that that stratagem will get nerfed.

In short R&H as support fill two roles:
1. LOS ignoring backfield security and anti inf support
2. Dirt cheap CP for your mainline --> which is tbh the main seller

(3. they provide Alpha Legion and others with chaos kill teams,aka the only sniperrifles Chaos get's, but that is more fluffy.)

Not Online!!! wrote:

C: 3 Obliterators are 225 pts.

Oblits are 65 points a head, Its 195 for the three of em.

I'm hesitant to get into a full discussion on whether Marauders or Oblits are superior in a vacuum as they perform different roles. This isn't a competition and the units are both vastly different. What it comes down to is this; Flesh Metal Guns are very good. They have solid rate of fire with 4 shots a piece at high strength, passable penetration, and multi wound, they also benefit immensely from having a full 24 inch range which makes them significantly harder to screen against. A squad of 3 has a high enough rate of fire to be dangerous to infantry, and can put a lot of hurt on multi wound models. Since OP playing Iron Warriors, they will ignore cover with these guns as well- making the already effective weapons even more effective.

This is before considering that Obliterators have access to much better support than Marauders do. In terms of psychic powers- Prescience from a Chaos Sorcerer makes those 12 shots hit on 2s, or they can be re-positioned with Warp Time, and Delightful Agonies can give them a 5++ feel no pain type save. A nearby Chaos Lord or Daemon Prince lets them re-roll 1s to hit (an aura lacking from R&H). As for Strategems they have access to Veterans of the Long War which gives them +1 to wound on all of their shots for the phase, and Endless Cacophony to make an additional round of shooting at the end of the phase. Even if you don't like Slaanesh, a squad of Nurgle Obliterators can heal itself and restore dead Obliterators with Grandfather's Blessing... which is hilarious.

a squad of 3 Obliterators shooting normally at 24 inch range without any buffs and average rolls has roughly the same dakka as 6 overcharging Plasma Guns in rapid fire range (with 1 worse AP, which is made up for by Iron Warriors trait vs a target in cover). Logistically it can be difficult to coordinate that many point blank Plasma shots into a target on command and deal with screens preventing you from going where you want. Additionally because the firepower is focused onto a single squad you get more mileage out of command points and psychic powers. In short, Obliterators are a durable unit with very good guns and flexible deployment. They will do a lot of damage at whatever you point them at, and benefit considerably from synergy inherent to the Chaos Dex. Whether your list needs more anti tank, or more anti infantry, or more anti elites, whatever you need, Obliterators can do that for you. Easy to use, easy to understand, easy to buff.

They are an iconic Iron Warriors unit, and will not let you down. Also really fun to convert since you can start with a Chaos Terminator and keep strapping weapons on him.

Gak, forgot they got a new value. Still you get 30 marauders and some kit for them. or a Valkyrie and some kit for the Squad in it.
Never said they are bad , they are ammongst our best choices, except for that one time during the dark ages of indexes. I even reccomended them at the begining.

Honestly ina vaccuum , aka the unit on it's own, i guess Marauders would win in the ROF department, whilest Obliterators would win in raw dmg output. The weapons of fleshmetal, that recently got buffed to be playable again are still somewhat iffy sometimes, but i agree on the fact that they are good to great most of the time. I disagree however on the notion that they are good aggainst massed infantery, aka screens or cannonfodder, yes you got 12 shots but would you really shoot at infantery with them that is not Elite or marines? I would say you wouldn't.
As you said their job is diffrent, Oblits are Search and Destroy units, Marauders are Shockinfantery that can do some of everything, in many cases beeing superior except in the AT department

With support and Stratagems it is a clear win for any Codex army that has a fully fledged codex compared to a index army, funnily enough because of some strange formulations you could make the case that DKoK aswell as Elysians and R&H technically get access to non regiment specific AM stratagems. That is debatable and i am still waiting on a clarification there so let's see. that is also one of the main problems, the powercreep is now not anymore in models and their specific special rules, nowadays it's all about CP generation conservation and the stratagems that you can use.
I will be honest, competitively only very few options of R&H can stand their own, in many cases that are IG vehicles or their psykers and simply put certain weapons. The covenants as a whole are comparatively to "orders" of IG lackluster, in case of Nurgle a blatant joke. In my opinion GW dropped the ball with the Stratagems and CP'S in two ways:
1. Allowing CP farms, as in you take IG or R&H and take the biggest detachment CP' wise with the most costeffective bare minimum choice and then beeing able to use the 5 CP's of the R&H plattonn for exemple on the Stratagems of the CSM detachment.
2. The powerlevel within the Codex in regards to the stratagems is completely boned. Take for exemple the normal IW stratagem, an absolute waste of CP, take the slaaneshi stratagem for double shooting outright broken. In case of that specific stratagem, i have seen people use it in conjunction with a 40 man cultist blob and Aura support after tide of traitors. 160 shots autoguns that reroll 1s is just completely insane for the ammount of CP


Psy support is debatable: Prescience is top and warptime is also great. However Warpflux is the AT version of smite and creeping Terror is one of the best debuff spells in the game. comparatively i guess it comes down to points leftover and what you search there.

I remember them not beeing a Iron Warriors specific choice, granted they kinda made multiple versions of the fluff for oblits. Nowadays they are a complete seperate cult. I guess they would make some great support but they require presence of other HQ choices around them and they still are kind of vulnerable when they have done their strike.

What do you think about dakka predators? With the buff to the Predator autocannon they seem like a decent enough choice to run.