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So the relatively low price and cool aesthetic of the model combined with the fact that I was sitting on store credit convinced me to pick up the new webway gate kit. I love all things webway related and will use it as some neat terrain if nothing else, but has anyone figured out a decent niche for the thing?

The main issues with it in my eyes are...

* We can already deepstrike most aeldari units through stratagems and with more flexibility of placement.
* If you put a lot of units inside, you need to be spending command points to spit them out more quickly so that you aren't basically playing with a fraction of your army all game.
* There's always the chance that your opponent will blow the gate up before your unit arrives, thus costing you the unit.
* You can neutralize it without killing it by just having some thing run forward and huddle up around it.
* It's more expensive than a drop pod, while also being less flexible/reliable/safe.
* If you've already exhausted your other stratagems for deepstriking, there's a good chance, you're close to the legal limit on how much of your army can start in reserves.
* FAQ means you're basically only able to use it to show up downfield starting on turn 2 or later.

That said, I do see some perks to it.

* MCs can come through it. I'm less excited about that for wraith knights than for things like the avatar of Khaine, taloi, and wraith lords/wraith seers.
* It's another way to deepstrike if you've used up all your various webway strike stratagems or want to "deepstrike" a large infantry unit while also cloudstriking/screaming jet'ing your vehicles.
* It can deliver multiple units, albeit in a somewhat staggered fashion. So 120 points and no command points potentially delivers 3 units. Using 3 CP of harlequin stratagems, you potentially raise that to 6 units over the course of three turns. Compare that to the 2 units for 3CP or 1 unit for 1 CP of the various webway strike stratagems.



So, any thoughts on how to make the most of this thing? I almost wonder if this works best when you take 2 or 3 of them. Yeah, it's a huge investment, but you can give yourself some redundancy so that you don't lose whatever you put inside of them right off the bat, plus you can then use various stratagems to pump units out of them even when they die. Having your opponent's gunline shoot one death on their own turn only to have a wraith lord show up and then act normally on your turn having been basically unmolested seems fun if sub-optimal. Although this is weirdly risky as, if I"m not mistaken, you can only do this with an "infiltrated" webway portal starting on turn 2.


Alterinatively, maybe you could use this to hide a squishy, shooty unit that you want to have show up in your own deployment zone. Something like ravagers or a trio of vypers or something? I'm not sure if the webway counts as a unit for purposes of keeping back deepstrikers, but if so, it covers a pretty big chunk of board and could basically be an anti-deepstriker wall.

For it's intended use it's just plane bad in every single way, it would have far more utility if the various stratagems for deep striking didn't already exist.

The only thing I would ever consider using it for is custom terrain becuase it does look very good and is pretty cheap at £25, but that is litterally the grand sum of it's worth.

I'm looking at a few options, mostly cheap wraithlords with sword only (113pts per). This means my wraithguard can all maximize Wave Serpent transports and the wraithlords don't get left behind. A small harlequin detachment will be necessary just to have access to the strategem to pull out a unit if gate destroyed. Opponents can try to destroy it (therefore eliminating a single wraithlord too) but ignore wave serpents/hemlocks at your own peril.

It might also be used for a wraithknight in your own deployment zone, basically creating a guarantee safety. However, with the current cost of a wraithknight, plus 120pts......not cool.

I think it is better suited for narrative play where say it can't be destroyed and maybe a desperate Eldar defense with limited numbers for time before units start arriving from the gate to support.

They could be cool in narrative games. Especially exodus type. Where eldar start away from the gate and need to get there to escape. They get a vp for each escaped unit and the enemy gets vp for each destroyed one or the unit that didn't make it in time.

I’ve been looking for a post on this topic for ages! Love the Webway Gate and really want it to be viable to use but struggling to find a place for it.

I think we can already deep strike units into enemy lines, so it’s intended use isn’t to do that - especially with the beta rules now out. I think it’s eother to get as close as possible or to be in your own deployment zone to keep things safe.

For me, after having eagerly read the leaked rules, my main disappointment from seeing the rules on the actual leaked data sheet (amongst a few minor points) was the one unit per turn coming in thing. In 8th, the game can be over in turn 2 and dripping units in isn’t really very good.

Other big annoyance is starting within 3” and standing still, but I guess that’s what you have to do with the Webway stratagems. The issue is, even deployed a close to the enemy as you’re allowed to, now have only coming in T2 means you really don’t get the bonus of deploying closer as your other units will have moved to the portal’s location by then. Maybe it’s meant to be in your deployment zone? Odd that GE suggested ‘surprising’ your opponent with Howling Banshees from this thing... coming in and standing still.

I think there’s a theoretical maximum of 2-3 units in there. You could keep things like Hemlocks, Fire Prisms or Dark Reapers safe in there maybe?

Another issue is you wanna give the enemy enough to shoot at to distract from this gate, so you gonna sent a few units up in their face T1.

Really looking for other strategies. Wish GW let us know what their intent was!

When you take a fortification network (1-3 fortifications) can that be a Harlequins detachment itself and this open up use of the stratagems?

 Imateria wrote:
For it's intended use it's just plane bad in every single way, it would have far more utility if the various stratagems for deep striking didn't already exist.

The only thing I would ever consider using it for is custom terrain becuase it does look very good and is pretty cheap at £25, but that is litterally the grand sum of it's worth.

THIS ^ I bought it for terrain.

IMO its best for Narrative and Fun games where you dont have the new DS rules, if you are not playing with the new Rules it is fine and works well.

From a Competitive PoV. You can currently DS almost any unit you need to, and many units that cant DS dont really need to or there are better units for DSing, Example (tho Wraithknights are not Competitive just an example) If you want to DE a Wraithknight? There is a Wraithknight that can already DS and it is better at doing it b.c it can Re-DS any turn you want to. Want to DS something to keep it protected? I guess it could be used for that, but many units can have stratagems or Transports, i'd rather have a Wave Serpent than a WWG, at least it will do damage and be mobile.

Also if playing by GW missions rules (Did GW have Set objective placements for their tournament?) Your opponent can just place objectives between Terrain and there is a chance that you wont be able to even place it due to its 3" restrictions.

Quick question for anyone who has bought this. Does it come with CWE/DE equivalents of the "Webway Ambush" stratagem?



If there is no CWE/DE version of that strat then the Wraithgate is pretty much only usable by Harlies.

It has 0 Rules other than the Datasheet, the Webway Ambush works all Aeldari units, you just need a Harlequin detachment to use the Stratagem. Remember Auxiliary detachments dont count, so you will need to spend a couple hundred points on Harlequins.

Edit: Your cheapest Detachment would be a TM + 3 DJ's, tho a detachment of something more useful isnt bad, Harlequins are good if you like them, but if you don't take Harlequins then, yes, Webway Ambush isnt usable.

How long is it till we’re likely to see the FAQ for Harlequins? We’ll likely have the answer to deep strike rules (not holding my breath though). Unlikely anything will change like one unit coming out per turn though.

There’s another thread on here where someone has mentioned them being a good distraction from your other units, and also how it’s apparently difficult for infantry to properly swamp this thing. That’s based off a them actually having to get there and dedicate units to removing it in CC. That’s when the Harlequin stratagem comes in. Shame pure CWE don’t benefit from that.

 Bhazakhain wrote:
How long is it till we’re likely to see the FAQ for Harlequins? We’ll likely have the answer to deep strike rules (not holding my breath though). Unlikely anything will change like one unit coming out per turn though.

There’s another thread on here where someone has mentioned them being a good distraction from your other units, and also how it’s apparently difficult for infantry to properly swamp this thing. That’s based off a them actually having to get there and dedicate units to removing it in CC. That’s when the Harlequin stratagem comes in. Shame pure CWE don’t benefit from that.

FAQ's come out about 2 weeks after the codex drops. If there's any chance of those stratagems for the gate being made available for Craftworlds and Drukhari it'll be in Chapter Approved later this year.

Reading all the units (Trying to see if its worth using) Artillery units and Heavy ones seem to benefit from it the most, ones that normally die or get weakend easily but if they got a turn could od damage.

Units like Night Spinners, Support Weapons or a Wraithlord.

Support weapons i always liked, but normally dont do enough or deployment can mess them up, keeping them in a WWP might be really strong.

Of course units like Wraithknights, Talos, Grots, 12 man Harlequin units, etc.. can strong, but thinking out of the box CWE has some units that dont see play much and could now.

So I’m still trying to get my head around these and have had some ideas but though it worth confirming I think these things have now gone down about 30. Does that change opinions?

My current thinking is that we have the ‘trinity’ of wave serpent, Webway stratagem and Webway gate to protect and deploy Aeldari. The stratagem is obviously strong as you choose when and where, so let’s assume you’re using that and you’ve already spent 3cp on it.

This leaves us comparing serpents and the gate. Due to the serpent shield, both are similarly durable. Serpent can move to where you want and gate can’t so that’s a minus there. However...

I was thinking the other day, what if, with the gate, you’re not using the element of surprise like you are with the stratagem and serpent. What if the points you are paying (and certainty the enemy has on location of your reinforcements) are instead going towards area denial (almost akin to primaris infiltrators) and distraction carnifex?

Plus, tactical reserves rules being what they are now, we only have turns 2 and 3 to bring in reinforcements. A serpent carries 12 models / 1 unit for (you know the cost) and the gate potentially carries two units of 20 guardians (40 models) to hide and protect. For just over half the cost of a serpent.

So in trying to convince myself to use a gate, I think it requires realising it’s not doing the same job. Sure it carries reserves, but it’s secondary role isn’t surprising the enemy as our other two options are, but is in area denial (near one or two objectives) and distraction carnifex.

What I think is useful if you want to use a Webway gate is:

1) have other threats on the board so the enemy has a real conflicted choice of what to shoot at T1. If you’re trying to hide as much as possible there’ll likely focus on the gate and you’ll loose two units.

2) unlikely to be space for this, but two gate might actually be useful for redundancy but also to then have a ‘pool’ of two or three units in reserve with your choice if which gate to emerge from near a relevant objective. Also, the element of surprise the serpent and Webway stratagem have come back into play.


It’s annoying with their size that they actually get more useful in multiples and one isn’t an auto take but hopefully the above is did for thought?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
A little additional thinking here:

If you move a wave serpent up, you still can’t disembark till next turn. Your opponent has a turn to prepare. It’s actually the same with the gates. You deploy them and your opponent has a turn to prepare till you deploy. There actually isn’t that much element of surprise with the Serpents.

If you go second, they get two turns to shoot at you before disembarking whether you have Serpents or gates.

Only difference is a serpent can have multiple units up to 12 models disembarking on the same turn. Gates are limited to one unit but size and type aren’t limited.

The two choices are a lot closer than I thought.

I may have gone down 30pts, but until it gets a rule like Drop Pods (i.e. allowing units to come in on turn 1 even in Match play) it is still just a pretty piece of terrain and that's all.

If it did ignore the Matched Play Tactical Reserve rule, I could see it be an must-take to make WKs see play again.

-

This may be a silly question, but:

1) do Webway Gates get a Craftworld attribute?

and

2) do they contribute to points value of what you have deployed when calculating how much you are allowed to have starting in reserve?

 Bhazakhain wrote:
This may be a silly question, but:

1) do Webway Gates get a Craftworld attribute?

and

2) do they contribute to points value of what you have deployed when calculating how much you are allowed to have starting in reserve?

1.) No, just Aeldari, Building, Webway Gate, Vehiclke keywords
2.) Yes? They're set up during deployment so they must count.

1) No they do not as they do not have the <Craftworld> keyword. You actually don't even get the WWG related strats unless you include a Harlequin detachments. It's a mess

2) Yes, the 90pts for the WWG would count for what you have deployed on the table, while units in reserve using the Gate would count for point in reserve

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Ah brill that clears it up. I was sure it wouldn’t get the attribute because no Craftworld keyword but wanted to check.

 Galef wrote:
1) No they do not as they do not have the <Craftworld> keyword. You actually don't even get the WWG related strats unless you include a Harlequin detachments. It's a mess
-

Even worse, since it's a Fortification it can't be in the same detachment as other units, so you have to take a Fortification Detachment. Could be a problem in some army builds.

That’s true, though right now my lists are based on a dual battalion so I have one spare anyway.

 Bhazakhain wrote:
That’s true, though right now my lists are based on a dual battalion so I have one spare anyway.

And remember, unless one of your Battalions is Harlequins, you do not get access to the WWG relate strats

-

Yep : )

So this might be a stupid question but would this, being a fortification, count as a ‘unit’? Would enemy units be able to deep strike within 9” of it or does the gate count as a stationary unit in your army?