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OK... Evidently the new codex for loyalist Imperial Knights got approximately 30pts deduction compared to Renegade Knights.

So I could not fit my 2 Gallants in my old 7th ed chaos army list. I had encountered this problem before when Renegade Knights did not even exist. I basically had to run "Come the Apocalypse" ally matrix.

Old 7th ed Chaos Marine List being used for 8th ed.

Battalion detachment 1 Chaos Marines
Hq
Lord
Dark apostle

Troops
Cultists
Cultists
Cultists

Heavy
Havoc, 4 autocannons
Havoc, 4 autocannons
Havoc, 4 autocannons

Battalion detachment 2 Chaos Marines
Hq
Lord
Dark apostle

Troops
Cultists
Cultists
Cultists

Heavy
Havoc, 4 autocannons
Havoc, 4 autocannons
Havoc, 4 autocannons

Super Heavy auxiliary 1 Imperial knights
Gallant

Super Heavy auxiliary 1 Imperial knights
Gallant

So now I also lose 2cp from the auxiliary detachments.

Any suggestions on how I can make this dysfunctional army work?

Super Heavy Auxiliaries shouldn't lose CP that is the regular I thought?

You will have to run the Knights as Renegade Knights from the Chaos Index and you won't get any of the benefits from the new Codex.

But the renegade knights cost 30-40pts more...

You are wasting too many points buying characters. You might as well go spear head formation instead of batallion if you just want to spam havocs. Its not like those apostles are going to help your army much.

What are you using CPs on anyway ?

Look if there was a 30pt hq for chaos marines I would take them. Instead of apostles to help with moral.

The CP is to rotate ion shields and reroll dice and use IK stratagems.

Do anyone have any actual advice?

Edit: it appears as if there is no more allies matrix in 8th...

It won't be very competitive but this could do all right.


++ Super-Heavy Auxiliary Detachment (Chaos - Questor Traitoris) [23 PL, 389pts] ++

+ Lord of War +

Renegade Knight [23 PL, 389pts]: Heavy stubber, Reaper chainsword, Thunderstrike gauntlet

++ Super-Heavy Auxiliary Detachment (Chaos - Questor Traitoris) [23 PL, 389pts] ++

+ Lord of War +

Renegade Knight [23 PL, 389pts]: Heavy stubber, Reaper chainsword, Thunderstrike gauntlet

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Chaos - Chaos Space Marines) [47 PL, 685pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Legion: Iron Warriors

+ HQ +

Chaos Lord [5 PL, 81pts]: Cold and Bitter, Combi-bolter, Fleshmetal Exoskeleton, Mark of Slaanesh, Power axe, Warlord

Sorcerer [6 PL, 100pts]: Combi-bolter, Delightful Agonies, Force sword, Mark of Slaanesh, Prescience

+ Troops +

Chaos Cultists [12 PL, 168pts]: Mark of Slaanesh
. 37x Chaos Cultist w/ Autogun
. Chaos Cultist w/ special weapon: Heavy stubber
. Chaos Cultist w/ special weapon: Heavy stubber
. Cultist Champion: Autogun

Chaos Cultists [12 PL, 168pts]: Mark of Slaanesh
. 37x Chaos Cultist w/ Autogun
. Chaos Cultist w/ special weapon: Heavy stubber
. Chaos Cultist w/ special weapon: Heavy stubber
. Cultist Champion: Autogun

Chaos Cultists [12 PL, 168pts]: Mark of Slaanesh
. 37x Chaos Cultist w/ Autogun
. Chaos Cultist w/ special weapon: Heavy stubber
. Chaos Cultist w/ special weapon: Heavy stubber
. Cultist Champion: Autogun

++ Spearhead Detachment +1CP (Chaos - Chaos Space Marines) [35 PL, 535pts] ++

+ HQ +

Chaos Lord [5 PL, 76pts]: Chainsword, Combi-bolter, Mark of Slaanesh

+ Heavy Support +

Havocs [10 PL, 153pts]: Mark of Slaanesh
. Aspiring Champion: Chainsword, Combi-bolter
. 2x Havoc w/ boltgun
. Havoc w/ heavy weapon: Autocannon
. Havoc w/ heavy weapon: Autocannon
. Havoc w/ heavy weapon: Autocannon
. Havoc w/ heavy weapon: Autocannon

Havocs [10 PL, 153pts]: Mark of Slaanesh
. Aspiring Champion: Chainsword, Combi-bolter
. 2x Havoc w/ boltgun
. Havoc w/ heavy weapon: Autocannon
. Havoc w/ heavy weapon: Autocannon
. Havoc w/ heavy weapon: Autocannon
. Havoc w/ heavy weapon: Autocannon

Havocs [10 PL, 153pts]: Mark of Slaanesh
. Aspiring Champion: Chainsword, Combi-bolter
. 2x Havoc w/ boltgun
. Havoc w/ heavy weapon: Autocannon
. Havoc w/ heavy weapon: Autocannon
. Havoc w/ heavy weapon: Autocannon
. Havoc w/ heavy weapon: Autocannon

++ Total: [128 PL, 1998pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe



You have a big fearless screen of cultists with the Warlord in the middle. The other Lord and Sorcerer hang back and help the Autocannons put out a lot of hurt with +1 to hit and rerolls, they could even be a bit mobile if needed, and no one will get cover from them because of IW trait.

Thank you.

I just dont like how traitor gallants cost 30-40pts more than loyalist gallants, and dont get an extra attack hitting on ws 2+!

I dont like how CSM HQs cost +60pts.

But what can i do? Complaining wont do anything.

At least your suggestion makes my old 7th ed army viable in 8th even though i cant bring the other 3 squads of havocs. I guess its better to have 3 full squads of cultists than 6 minimum squads of 10.

Thank you for putting in time to make a battle scribe list.

It wouldn't hurt to split the squads up some, but then you have to find the points for the HQs. Exalted Champions wouldn't be bad. I would keep at least one blob of 40 for the tide of traitors stratagem.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

++ Super-Heavy Auxiliary Detachment (Chaos - Questor Traitoris) [23 PL, 389pts] ++

+ Lord of War +

Renegade Knight [23 PL, 389pts]: Heavy stubber, Reaper chainsword, Thunderstrike gauntlet

++ Super-Heavy Auxiliary Detachment (Chaos - Questor Traitoris) [23 PL, 389pts] ++

+ Lord of War +

Renegade Knight [23 PL, 389pts]: Heavy stubber, Reaper chainsword, Thunderstrike gauntlet

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Chaos - Chaos Space Marines) [36 PL, 562pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Legion: Iron Warriors

+ HQ +

Chaos Lord [5 PL, 81pts]: Cold and Bitter, Combi-bolter, Fleshmetal Exoskeleton, Mark of Slaanesh, Power axe, Warlord

Sorcerer [6 PL, 98pts]: Bolt pistol, Delightful Agonies, Force sword, Mark of Slaanesh, Prescience

+ Troops +

Chaos Cultists [3 PL, 44pts]: Mark of Slaanesh
. 8x Chaos Cultist w/ Autogun
. Chaos Cultist w/ special weapon: Heavy stubber
. Cultist Champion: Autogun

Chaos Cultists [12 PL, 168pts]: Mark of Slaanesh
. 37x Chaos Cultist w/ Autogun
. Chaos Cultist w/ special weapon: Heavy stubber
. Chaos Cultist w/ special weapon: Heavy stubber
. Cultist Champion: Autogun

Chaos Cultists [3 PL, 44pts]: Mark of Slaanesh
. 8x Chaos Cultist w/ Autogun
. Chaos Cultist w/ special weapon: Heavy stubber
. Cultist Champion: Autogun

+ Heavy Support +

Havocs [7 PL, 127pts]: Mark of Slaanesh
. Aspiring Champion: Chainsword, Combi-bolter
. Havoc w/ heavy weapon: Autocannon
. Havoc w/ heavy weapon: Autocannon
. Havoc w/ heavy weapon: Autocannon
. Havoc w/ heavy weapon: Autocannon

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Chaos - Chaos Space Marines) [40 PL, 660pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Legion: Iron Warriors

+ HQ +

Chaos Lord [5 PL, 76pts]: Chainsword, Combi-bolter, Mark of Slaanesh

Exalted Champion [5 PL, 71pts]: Chainaxe, Chainsword, Mark of Slaanesh

+ Troops +

Chaos Cultists [3 PL, 44pts]: No Chaos Mark
. 8x Chaos Cultist w/ Autogun
. Chaos Cultist w/ special weapon: Heavy stubber
. Cultist Champion: Autogun

Chaos Cultists [3 PL, 44pts]: No Chaos Mark
. 8x Chaos Cultist w/ Autogun
. Chaos Cultist w/ special weapon: Heavy stubber
. Cultist Champion: Autogun

Chaos Cultists [3 PL, 44pts]: No Chaos Mark
. 8x Chaos Cultist w/ Autogun
. Chaos Cultist w/ special weapon: Heavy stubber
. Cultist Champion: Autogun

+ Heavy Support +

Havocs [7 PL, 127pts]: Mark of Slaanesh
. Aspiring Champion: Chainsword, Combi-bolter
. Havoc w/ heavy weapon: Autocannon
. Havoc w/ heavy weapon: Autocannon
. Havoc w/ heavy weapon: Autocannon
. Havoc w/ heavy weapon: Autocannon

Havocs [7 PL, 127pts]: Mark of Slaanesh
. Aspiring Champion: Chainsword, Combi-bolter
. Havoc w/ heavy weapon: Autocannon
. Havoc w/ heavy weapon: Autocannon
. Havoc w/ heavy weapon: Autocannon
. Havoc w/ heavy weapon: Autocannon

Havocs [7 PL, 127pts]: Mark of Slaanesh
. Aspiring Champion: Chainsword, Combi-bolter
. Havoc w/ heavy weapon: Autocannon
. Havoc w/ heavy weapon: Autocannon
. Havoc w/ heavy weapon: Autocannon
. Havoc w/ heavy weapon: Autocannon

++ Total: [122 PL, 2000pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe

Less Cultists but you get an extra HQ for another Battalion and can fit another 4 autocannons

4 Detachments in a 2000 pt. game? IIRC 3 Detachments is the max at the Point level.

 EverlastingNewb wrote:
4 Detachments in a 2000 pt. game? IIRC 3 Detachments is the max at the Point level.

For tournaments sure. OP never said the list was for competitive.

Are there any tourney that would let me proxy cultists as AM infantry squads? Chaos Lord as Company Commander? Sorcerer as Comissar? I had a crazy idea of buying the 60mm bases and placing a Havoc toting the autocannon being controlled by a cultist to make a ghetto heavy weapons team proxying for AM.

Renegade Gallant cost 35ish points more and dont get an extra attack or swing at WS2+. There is also no strategem like rotate ion shield or full tilt.

You probably could. I mean a cultist with an auto gun is just a worse armored imperial guardsmen.

If you want to be true to Chaos and try to muscle through Renegade Knights, I think the Thermal Cannon is the gem. Either an Errant type Knight with the Thermal Cannon and a Melee Weapon, or a Thermal Cannon and a Gatling Gun. Trying to use a Gallant with a Chain Sword + Gauntlet is just going to frustrate you because you are paying more for a worse model. A Thermal Cannon + Gauntlet is your best bet for threatening other knights, and a Thermal Cannon + Avenger gives you pretty good versatility in target selection.

A Forgeworld Hellwright can heal Renegade Knights. Warp Smiths cannot. So they make a pretty decent HQ if you want to use a traitor knight or two. A good caster with Death Hex can also tip the scales in your favor if you come across imperial knights or other good invulnerable save targets.

I don't think Renegade Knights are unplayable, they just lack a lot of the tools that codex supported imperial knights have. They would benefit a lot if they had either Heretic Astartes or the Daemon Keyword, as those would give them access to a lot of supporting buffs which would help them keep up. Being able to cast Delightful Agonies or Weaver of Fates or Warp Time on a Renegade Knight would be a huge help. The Lord of Skulls has Heretec Astartes, and as such can be warp timed or prescience. It hardly breaks the game.

And i just demolish my army...i may or may not be repairing my knights...

What am i supposed to do with an extra 12 havocs wielding autocannons?