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Hello,

I'm thinking about suggesting a new stratagem to my group of friends and felt like I could post it here, too, and see what you guys think.

Muligan - 1 or 2 Command Points
After rolling 3 or more dice, you can re-roll the entire lot.

We all whiff every now and then.

I wouldn't call that a Stratagem. I would call that a Mercy Rule.

Do people really not allow opponents to reroll particularly bad rolls? If I'm ahead in a game, I give opponents the option at least once a turn.

 techsoldaten wrote:
I wouldn't call that a Stratagem. I would call that a Mercy Rule.

Do people really not allow opponents to reroll particularly bad rolls? If I'm ahead in a game, I give opponents the option at least once a turn.

No, I've never played a game where people have gotten to reroll bad rolls. I call it a Stratagem because it costs command points.

I think it's totally reasonable to spend 1 or 2 CP to reroll when you wiff on something important, like a bunch of 1s and 2s with some power armor saves or when wounding or damaging something important.

 Kharneth wrote:

 techsoldaten wrote:
I wouldn't call that a Stratagem. I would call that a Mercy Rule.

Do people really not allow opponents to reroll particularly bad rolls? If I'm ahead in a game, I give opponents the option at least once a turn.

No, I've never played a game where people have gotten to reroll bad rolls. I call it a Stratagem because it costs command points.

I think it's totally reasonable to spend 1 or 2 CP to reroll when you wiff on something important, like a bunch of 1s and 2s with some power armor saves or when wounding or damaging something important.

I think this might be an edge case where in matched play this would be too good being able to completely reroll that many dice (You could be talking 30-40 dice in some instances).

I've definitely done this in casual games several times and games where we have already decided the winner but chose to play on because we are entertained by a specific combat or the game was decided too early so we revert to a simple kill everything game (Had an Open war courier game end T1 because of really bad luck).

Tristanleo wrote:

 Kharneth wrote:

 techsoldaten wrote:
I wouldn't call that a Stratagem. I would call that a Mercy Rule.

Do people really not allow opponents to reroll particularly bad rolls? If I'm ahead in a game, I give opponents the option at least once a turn.

No, I've never played a game where people have gotten to reroll bad rolls. I call it a Stratagem because it costs command points.

I think it's totally reasonable to spend 1 or 2 CP to reroll when you wiff on something important, like a bunch of 1s and 2s with some power armor saves or when wounding or damaging something important.

I think this might be an edge case where in matched play this would be too good being able to completely reroll that many dice (You could be talking 30-40 dice in some instances).

I've definitely done this in casual games several times and games where we have already decided the winner but chose to play on because we are entertained by a specific combat or the game was decided too early so we revert to a simple kill everything game (Had an Open war courier game end T1 because of really bad luck).

I mean, statistically speaking you aren't going to have any advantage by rerolling all of the dice (you're not only rerolling the failed rolls). It's just a way to undo excessively poor luck. So, yes, 40 dice. 40 dice on a 4+ but only 7 hits, so you reroll. It's possible, but highly improbable, that you will turn that 7/40 into 30/40. More likely, you'll turn your 7 into something a little more probable. Maybe only 15 or maybe over 20.

By the rules, this doesn't really work. Reason being that, for the most part, you're never rolling "3 or more" dice at a time. Technically, attacks and saves happen one at a time, and we use the "fast rolling" method to help get through it quickly - but one at a time is the actual way the dice rolls happen during attacks and saves. As such, the only times where you're rolling 3d6 or more is when a weapon fires 3d3 or 3d6 times, since that's a single roll using multiple dice.

Also, we've used a Mercy rule a couple times as kids back in 3rd edition, and believe me, when the Chaos Gods have decided it's time for you to have a bad roll, you will have a bad roll (I rolled 33 attacks, hitting on 3+'s, and only 3 hit. We all laughed, did a Mercy Rule like this, and I rerolled it. Then I only got 2 hits...).

 Yarium wrote:


Also, we've used a Mercy rule a couple times as kids back in 3rd edition, and believe me, when the Chaos Gods have decided it's time for you to have a bad roll, you will have a bad roll (I rolled 33 attacks, hitting on 3+'s, and only 3 hit. We all laughed, did a Mercy Rule like this, and I rerolled it. Then I only got 2 hits...).

Hahah yup!

But even shooting or fighting with an entire allows you to fast roll all the dice at once. The point of 3+ dice was to prevent it from being used on perils, failed spells, and failed charges.

It's funny, my friends also think that this stratagem is too powerful and should be 3 command points (but that we already have enough ways to reroll). And here I am wondering if it's even worth the 1 CP.

Ability to roll all dice is definitely powerfull ability. Sure it might not come into play often but then again strategem that doesn\t get used but when it does is useful is still good strategem. You don't have limited amount of strategems you can select from. "Good but you only use it rarely" is good argument only if you had to say pick 8 strategems for game that you can use from. But when there's no limit on strategems...GW could release tomorrow book with 100 new strategems per faction and that wouldn't take away from other strategems.

And when that shadowsword whiffs all 6 to hit rolls targeting enemy castellan knight you would be damn glad to have this strategem in your pocket.

Not fan. Game already has too much rerolls around as it is.

I think a typically bad roll, is just Fate, it represents a Dud shell , a miscalibration of the sights or a sudden explosion nearby rattling the crew / Shooter.

We already have re-roll one die stratagems and way too many re-roll all ones and fails from various aura's in game while I can see in friendly games a mercy re-roll being given when incredible bad luck happens , I had a khorne lord double fail a 3 inch charge into my heavily wounded knight in the last turn of a pretty crushing victory ... i just said its cool just get him and get some revenge.

 Kharneth wrote:

Tristanleo wrote:

 Kharneth wrote:

 techsoldaten wrote:
I wouldn't call that a Stratagem. I would call that a Mercy Rule.

Do people really not allow opponents to reroll particularly bad rolls? If I'm ahead in a game, I give opponents the option at least once a turn.

No, I've never played a game where people have gotten to reroll bad rolls. I call it a Stratagem because it costs command points.

I think it's totally reasonable to spend 1 or 2 CP to reroll when you wiff on something important, like a bunch of 1s and 2s with some power armor saves or when wounding or damaging something important.

I think this might be an edge case where in matched play this would be too good being able to completely reroll that many dice (You could be talking 30-40 dice in some instances).

I've definitely done this in casual games several times and games where we have already decided the winner but chose to play on because we are entertained by a specific combat or the game was decided too early so we revert to a simple kill everything game (Had an Open war courier game end T1 because of really bad luck).

I mean, statistically speaking you aren't going to have any advantage by rerolling all of the dice (you're not only rerolling the failed rolls). It's just a way to undo excessively poor luck. So, yes, 40 dice. 40 dice on a 4+ but only 7 hits, so you reroll. It's possible, but highly improbable, that you will turn that 7/40 into 30/40. More likely, you'll turn your 7 into something a little more probable. Maybe only 15 or maybe over 20.

Statistically speaking, you are definitely going to have an advantage by rerolling an especially unlucky pool of dice. Averages are averages because sometimes you roll below whatever the average is. Technically, your chances of rolling 7 hits on 40 dice are just as good as they were the first time (sorta kinda not really), but by definition you will be more likely to roll something within fewer standards of deviation than the 7 hits from before. It's the same principle that makes overcharges plasma so much safer while near a captain. If 10 out of 10 plasma shots roll 1s to hit the first time, the 10 dice you reroll are not likely to come up all 1s again. Thus the devastating loss of an entire squad of plasma gunners that might have lost you the game is suddenly mitigated by the reroll thus changing the course of the game.

Your mulligan rule will have a similar effect wherever it's applied. It changes bad rolls from uncommon to rare. Whether or not that's good for gameplay is up to you to decide. I get the impression most of us like having the possibility for things to go really poorly for our opponents every now and again to dramatically shift the course of the game, but I can understand preferring a game that leans heavily towards averages.

Basically, ask yourself whether or not you like the idea of the player currently losing the game suddenly turning things around by getting lucky (or his opponent getting unlucky). if you do, this rule kind of hinders that come from behind victory. If you don't like the thought of something improbable happening, more power to you.