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You lose a few dudes(hordes mean you lose dudes faster) and then just get stunlocked unless you're dry humping each other

Morale is based on losing half your models. So the more you have the more your opponent has to kill to force a break test.

My friends played a four-player game as our second game. It was the hordes dominating - they had a higher volume of shots, more versatility in their wargear, and were able to do more things concurrently.

Sample size = 1 is not science, but that’s my limited experience thus far

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
You lose a few dudes(hordes mean you lose dudes faster) and then just get stunlocked unless you're dry humping each other

You can play a horde in Kill-Team?
This is so ridiculous. You pretend to play Kill-Team but you are playing 40K after all.

 Strg Alt wrote:

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
You lose a few dudes(hordes mean you lose dudes faster) and then just get stunlocked unless you're dry humping each other

You can play a horde in Kill-Team?
This is so ridiculous. You pretend to play Kill-Team but you are playing 40K after all.

Horde is relative here. You have 100 points to play with, how you use them is up to you. You think armies with cheap troops should be punished perhaps?

 Strg Alt wrote:

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
You lose a few dudes(hordes mean you lose dudes faster) and then just get stunlocked unless you're dry humping each other

You can play a horde in Kill-Team?
This is so ridiculous. You pretend to play Kill-Team but you are playing 40K after all.

Not a true horde but why shouldn't the lower cost models outnumber the elite armies. If games consisted of 1-1 then meq would automatically beat ork, nids, guard etc

 Strg Alt wrote:

This is so ridiculous. You pretend to play Kill-Team but you are playing 40K after all.

New games come out.
Players need to break it with a meta.
Fun is now sucked out.

Welcome to Citadel gaming. Where the player base breaks everything for the sake of it.

ValentineGames wrote:

 Strg Alt wrote:

This is so ridiculous. You pretend to play Kill-Team but you are playing 40K after all.

New games come out.
Players need to break it with a meta.
Fun is now sucked out.

Welcome to Citadel gaming. Where the player base breaks everything for the sake of it.

I take it you've played Kill Team then?

 Strg Alt wrote:

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
You lose a few dudes(hordes mean you lose dudes faster) and then just get stunlocked unless you're dry humping each other

You can play a horde in Kill-Team?
This is so ridiculous. You pretend to play Kill-Team but you are playing 40K after all.

Well it's a horde of 20 models that cost 100 points of less, but yes, you can play what is effectively a horde in a skirmish game.

To be fair, hordes need representation in these kind of settings too. Factions who throw bodies at the problem shouldn't have the same model count as more elite armies who see every loss as a major setback.

Militarum Tempestus

The horde-elite compromise.

 Apple Peel wrote:
Militarum Tempestus

The horde-elite compromise.

I'd put an army of Scouts or an army of Skitarri in the same boat actually. Probably Tau too. The 4+ save armies can put a reasonable of bodies on the board while bringing decent staying power and firepower.

Sorcererbob wrote:
My friends played a four-player game as our second game. It was the hordes dominating - they had a higher volume of shots, more versatility in their wargear, and were able to do more things concurrently.

Sample size = 1 is not science, but that’s my limited experience thus far

I had the opposite experience fighting Guard vs. Plague Marines. On the other hand, I also brought Meltagun and Plasmaguns, which turned out to be a mistake.

I brought blob of Guardsmen, and they just, try as they might, could not kill my opponent's plague marines. Hitting on 6's, wounding on 5's, saving on 3's and then 5's, and then killing on 4's is just too hard to get through without ranked fire, and the horde offers no protection to the special weapons.

Not that my special weapons were particularly threatening. I learned that the meltagun is next to worthless, because it will always be hitting on a 6. The plasgun is in a similar boat, but might be useful if the enemy decided to close range, but he was happy to camp at the back and shell me with blight launchers, which were comparatively super lethal. I eventually gave up on shooting him and broke cover to close to melee, and the few guys who made it there did actually manage to kill one of his guys by mobbing him in close combat.


Next time, I think I'm going to try flamers as Guard, or maybe bring an melee-oriented kill team. Despite having to maneuver around all the terrain, it wasn't that hard to close to close-quarters range, I might have stood a better chance if I had charged with all my guys initially instead of trying to trade fire.

Guided 2 brand new players through a very long game tonight. 6 Primaris vs 14 IG. Even when he got the Guard down to half strength and they were Broken, 2 of the Guardsmen managed to stay unshaken, and claim the objective to win on the last turn. They'd killed 2 Marines and put a wound on another. Numbers definitely helped in that situation but we'll see how they do with some better multi-shot weapons against them.

ValentineGames wrote:

 Strg Alt wrote:

This is so ridiculous. You pretend to play Kill-Team but you are playing 40K after all.

New games come out.
Players need to break it with a meta.
Fun is now sucked out.

Welcome to Citadel gaming. Where the player base breaks everything for the sake of it.

Winning and meta optimization are fun.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Stux wrote:
Morale is based on losing half your models. So the more you have the more your opponent has to kill to force a break test.

This is key. Go aggressive with the storm troopers, hide cheap snipers in the back to stay above 50%. You may not go full horde, but minimizing your chances of staying above 50% by sheer model count is powerful.

I have yet to play a game of this new KT but I believe playing loads of models will be a good strategy. More models to control objectives, more room to lose a few men before Morale kicks in, and ways to drown the enemy in volume of fire. Of course there's disadvantages, like you'll probably lose in the mission where you can only score points by killing in CC, but it's specific.

Lot of cultist and maybe one fallen as a leader (aspiring champion). It is thematic and suitable for kill team.

Biggest mistake I've seen is lots of people trying to gunline their way to victory and failing. IG needs to use those numbers and claim objectives while your support/snipers/special weapons stay in cover. Melee is also more important, since you have more bodies to engage with.

Kill Team heavily rewards flexibility and player choice, especially when compared to regular 40k where you just point n kill stuff.

I played my second four person game today. This time I had 12 Dark Eldar wyches. It went well for me. I had a commanding victory; doubling the points of second place.

I think boots on the ground is the way to go with this.

Sedraxis wrote:
Biggest mistake I've seen is lots of people trying to gunline their way to victory and failing. IG needs to use those numbers and claim objectives while your support/snipers/special weapons stay in cover. Melee is also more important, since you have more bodies to engage with.

Kill Team heavily rewards flexibility and player choice, especially when compared to regular 40k where you just point n kill stuff.

This all day. The best KT lists I've seen look to be a balance between melee, shooting and not going hog wild on upgrades.

Heck, for my Thousand Sons I've crammed seven bodies into a list (Sorceror, Rubric Gunner w/ Soulreaper, Rubric with Warpflamer, Rubric with Icon of Flame, Twistbray, Tzaangor with Brayhorn, Tzaangor with Tzaangor Blades) but depending on how games go I may look at building some Tzaangors with autoguns and chainswords to flood the board with up to 14 goats to take advantage of hording my opponents out with too many bodies to kill quickly.

2nd game today. IG vs DE. More or less the same IG list as last night, but the some of the weapons swapped and specialists chosen this time. DE was a Sybarite and Hekatrix both with Agonizers, Splinter cannon, Shredder, 3 regular Kabalites and 3 Wych Fighters with Shardnets.
I was playing this time, as DE, and my Wyches got hammered by overwatch thanks to failed charges. Sybarite too went down quick to overwatch and my opponent didn't do me the favour of supercharging his plasma to death first turn this time. Shredder and Splinter cannon put in some work but even with the 2+ Ld Combat Drugs my team got broken turn 3.

We kept playing for turn 4 but then realised the mission should have ended when my team Broke. I still wasn't gonna do enough to bring it back. Only problem with a lot of guys is that when you do have to start taking Nerve tests you're screwed. I need to try out more combos and factions.

Hordes are actually pretty great. Let's say you have a horde of 20 models and your opponent has an elite force of 5.

First off, 11 of your models have to be shaken or out of action before you start taking 'Broken' tests, and the only way to be shaken before then is if you have a model that has a flesh wound. For horde armies, a flesh wound means they're still in the game, which is pretty great.

If the enemy does manage to chew through 11 of your models, then yeah, you're going to start having a bit of a rough time. Up until that point, however, you've got a pretty good chance of tying them up in close combat and bogging down their elite force, slowing down the rate at which they can kill your models.

Had a game today versus Guard... opponent got ballsy - frag cannon took out eight mooks in one round.

I think it matched play horde armies are going to be countered by more elite lists that have weapons specifically designed to kill them. Picking 5-6 models from 20 means that the elite factions get to tailor what they bring much more than the ones picking 15 out of 20.

 Strg Alt wrote:

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
You lose a few dudes(hordes mean you lose dudes faster) and then just get stunlocked unless you're dry humping each other

You can play a horde in Kill-Team?
This is so ridiculous. You pretend to play Kill-Team but you are playing 40K after all.

The original 4th Edition Kill Team was one team of elite troops vs one horde of "Goons" and a "Boss" So it was like 20 guardsmen and a Lieutenant/Junior Officer, or a Fire Warrior Shas'ui and 16 gun drones, or 30 Grots and a Nob. Each faction had a designated allocation of goons and boss. As well as some mechanics to reward the kill team for stealth and sneakiness. It was tons of fun, and I hope to do this with new Kill Team.

witchdoctor wrote:

 Strg Alt wrote:

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
You lose a few dudes(hordes mean you lose dudes faster) and then just get stunlocked unless you're dry humping each other

You can play a horde in Kill-Team?
This is so ridiculous. You pretend to play Kill-Team but you are playing 40K after all.

The original 4th Edition Kill Team was one team of elite troops vs one horde of "Goons" and a "Boss" So it was like 20 guardsmen and a Lieutenant/Junior Officer, or a Fire Warrior Shas'ui and 16 gun drones, or 30 Grots and a Nob. Each faction had a designated allocation of goons and boss. As well as some mechanics to reward the kill team for stealth and sneakiness. It was tons of fun, and I hope to do this with new Kill Team.

I also remember the good old 4th rules for Kill-Team. One guy had a special ops team and the other player would take command of a boss and several goon squads. But the new Kill-Team has a different focus. Nowadays two commandos which in some cases are not even commandos face off against one another and that´s it.

If you have lets say 3 guardsmen taken out of the game and then morale phase starts, so you start rolling.
Rule says +1 for every shaken or removed model.

This means anything more than rolling a 3 will take you above the ld 6.
Lets say you roll a 4 so now you have 3 removed and one shaken model.

Now you need to roll 2 or lower.

Lets say you fail.

Next model must roll a 1 or be shaken.

It doesnt take too much to get stunlocked with all the models that have fleshwounds really.

Hawehu@hotmail.com wrote:
If you have lets say 3 guardsmen taken out of the game and then morale phase starts, so you start rolling.
Rule says +1 for every shaken or removed model.

This means anything more than rolling a 3 will take you above the ld 6.
Lets say you roll a 4 so now you have 3 removed and one shaken model.

Now you need to roll 2 or lower.

Lets say you fail.

Next model must roll a 1 or be shaken.

It doesnt take too much to get stunlocked with all the models that have fleshwounds really.

This is what happened to me in my first game that I played only yesterday. I had 12 Drukhari out there and in the 3rd or 4th round after I had lost 5 models, it went downhill pretty fast as far as nerve tests go.

had a game yesterday where my horde of orks with flamers just mowed down model after model.

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
You lose a few dudes(hordes mean you lose dudes faster) and then just get stunlocked unless you're dry humping each other

So have them dry humping each other. You've got tonnes of dudes, you can afford to have them clump together.

My last KT game I ran a tempestor and one scion with a squad of lightly equipped guardsmen, totalling 16 models on the field. I split them into two groups (one with the tempestor, medic, sergeant and flamer and four troops, the other a cluster of guardsmen with a vox caster following behind) and moved them aggressively to claim objectives.

By the time they broke, (and they will break!) I had an insurmountable point lead.

 Captain Joystick wrote:

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
You lose a few dudes(hordes mean you lose dudes faster) and then just get stunlocked unless you're dry humping each other

So have them dry humping each other. You've got tonnes of dudes, you can afford to have them clump together.

My last KT game I ran a tempestor and one scion with a squad of lightly equipped guardsmen, totalling 16 models on the field. I split them into two groups (one with the tempestor, medic, sergeant and flamer and four troops, the other a cluster of guardsmen with a vox caster following behind) and moved them aggressively to claim objectives.

By the time they broke, (and they will break!) I had an insurmountable point lead.

So you are saying that you will auto lose half the games? Doesn't look like a good advice!