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The necron player rolls for RP for slain warriors when his turn begins. Then he uses the ghost ark repair ability. After that he uses the orb of eternity.

Ghost ark :

.....In addition, at the end of each of your Movement phases, you can make Reanimation Protocol rolls for slain models <DYNASTY> Warriors unit within 3" of any friendly <DYNASTY> Ghost Arks. You cannot use this ability on a unit that has been the target of a resurrection orb or the Orb of Eternity this turn.

Orb of eternity :

The Orb of Eternity replaces the bearer's resurrection orb. If a model has the Orb of Eternity, once per battle, immediately after you have made your Reanimation Protocols rolls, you can make Reanimation Protocols rolls for models from a friendly <DYNASTY> INFANTRY unit within 3" of the bearer; when making these rolls add 1 to the result of each roll.

The unit hasnt been a target of the orb when you use the ghost ark repair ability. The orb doesnt say you have to use it at the beginning of your turn RP rolls. Only after Reanimation Protocols rolls. Which is what the ghost ark allows you to do.

 p5freak wrote:
The necron player rolls for RP for slain warriors when his turn begins. Then he uses the ghost ark repair ability. After that he uses the orb of eternity.

Ghost ark :

.....In addition, at the end of each of your Movement phases, you can make Reanimation Protocol rolls for slain models <DYNASTY> Warriors unit within 3" of any friendly <DYNASTY> Ghost Arks. You cannot use this ability on a unit that has been the target of a resurrection orb or the Orb of Eternity this turn.

Orb of eternity :

The Orb of Eternity replaces the bearer's resurrection orb. If a model has the Orb of Eternity, once per battle, immediately after you have made your Reanimation Protocols rolls, you can make Reanimation Protocols rolls for models from a friendly <DYNASTY> INFANTRY unit within 3" of the bearer; when making these rolls add 1 to the result of each roll.

The unit hasnt been a target of the orb when you use the ghost ark repair ability. The orb doesnt say you have to use it at the beginning of your turn RP rolls. Only after Reanimation Protocols rolls. Which is what the ghost ark allows you to do.

Edit: I see, you're saying to use the Orb after the Ghost Ark. So you'd do Normal at the start of turn, Ghost Ark at end of the Movement Phase and then use the Orb after using the Ghost Ark at the end of the Movement Phase. That seems perfectly legal.

Reanimation Protocols is done at the beginning of your turn right?

And you use the ghost ark repair ability at the end of each of your Movement phases.

So it is not legal as you can not use the orb after you use the ghost ark, because you have to use the orb "immediately after you have made your Reanimation Protocols rolls" and you make Reanimation Protocols rolls at the beginning of your turn. (P. 82 necron codex for Reanimation Protocols)

 DeathReaper wrote:
Reanimation Protocols is done at the beginning of your turn right?

And you use the ghost ark repair ability at the end of each of your Movement phases.

So it is not legal as you can not use the orb after you use the ghost ark, because you have to use the orb "immediately after you have made your Reanimation Protocols rolls" and you make Reanimation Protocols rolls at the beginning of your turn. (P. 82 necron codex for Reanimation Protocols)

Read the Ghost Ark rule. It literally says "you can make Reanimation Protocol rolls". The Orb happens "immediately after you have made your Reanimation Protocols rolls".

Are you seriously arguing that "Reanimation Protocols rolls" means something different to "Reanimation Protocols rolls"? If it works on one type of "Reanimation Protocols rolls" it works for all instances of "Reanimation Protocols rolls".

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:
Reanimation Protocols is done at the beginning of your turn right?

And you use the ghost ark repair ability at the end of each of your Movement phases.

So it is not legal as you can not use the orb after you use the ghost ark, because you have to use the orb "immediately after you have made your Reanimation Protocols rolls" and you make Reanimation Protocols rolls at the beginning of your turn. (P. 82 necron codex for Reanimation Protocols)

Read the Ghost Ark rule. It literally says "you can make Reanimation Protocol rolls". Are you seriously arguing that "Reanimation Protocols rolls" means something different to "Reanimation Protocols rolls"? If it works on one type of "Reanimation Protocols rolls" it works for all instances of "Reanimation Protocols rolls".

What part of my post did you not understand?

 DeathReaper wrote:
What part of my post did you not understand?

The part where you are making up rules? At no point does the Orb restrict it to the RP rolls made at the beginning of the turn. By your logic, the Ghost Ark doesn't do anything because it doesn't happen at the beginning of the turn.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:
What part of my post did you not understand?

The part where you are making up rules? At no point does the Orb restrict it to the RP rolls made at the beginning of the turn. By your logic, the Ghost Ark doesn't do anything because it doesn't happen at the beginning of the turn.

I only quoted rules, I didn't make any rules up. (I never said or implied that "the Orb restrict[s] it to the RP rolls made at the beginning of the turn")

The Ghost ark is used "at the end of each of your Movement phases"

The Orb of eternity needs to be used "once per battle, immediately after you have made your Reanimation Protocols rolls"

The "Reanimation Protocols" is used at the start of your turn. (P.84 Necron codex)

So if you use the Orb of eternity immediately after you have made your Reanimation Protocols rolls, which is used at the start of your turn, you cant use the Ghost ark on the same unit, since the Ghost ark is used at the end of your Movement phase...

Nothing I have said would make the Ghost Ark not do anything.

 DeathReaper wrote:
I only quoted rules, I didn't make any rules up. (I never said or implied that "the Orb restrict[s] it to the RP rolls made at the beginning of the turn")

The Ghost ark is used "at the end of each of your Movement phases"

The Orb of eternity needs to be used "once per battle, immediately after you have made your Reanimation Protocols rolls"

The "Reanimation Protocols" is used at the start of your turn. (P.84 Necron codex)

So if you use the Orb of eternity immediately after you have made your Reanimation Protocols rolls, which is used at the start of your turn, you cant use the Ghost ark on the same unit, since the Ghost ark is used at the end of your Movement phase...

Nothing I have said would make the Ghost Ark not do anything.

When you use the Ghost Ark's ability, you "make Reanimation Protocol rolls". Thus you can use the Orb immediately after doing those RP Rolls. Or are you saying "Reanimation Protocol rolls" is not the same as "Reanimation Protocol rolls"?

I agree to the legality of the 3 attempts, made in the order described.

Intended? Doubtful. But GW had two opportunities to prevent this. Similar clause to the Ghost Ark on the orb that you can’t use it if the Ghost Ark ability has already targeted a unit, and they could also have specified “after the first RP roll of the turn” which was not done.

That’s a big chunk of unit coming back to life.

 DeathReaper wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:
What part of my post did you not understand?

The part where you are making up rules? At no point does the Orb restrict it to the RP rolls made at the beginning of the turn. By your logic, the Ghost Ark doesn't do anything because it doesn't happen at the beginning of the turn.

I only quoted rules, I didn't make any rules up. (I never said or implied that "the Orb restrict[s] it to the RP rolls made at the beginning of the turn")

The Ghost ark is used "at the end of each of your Movement phases"

The Orb of eternity needs to be used "once per battle, immediately after you have made your Reanimation Protocols rolls"

The "Reanimation Protocols" is used at the start of your turn. (P.84 Necron codex)

So if you use the Orb of eternity immediately after you have made your Reanimation Protocols rolls, which is used at the start of your turn, you cant use the Ghost ark on the same unit, since the Ghost ark is used at the end of your Movement phase...

Nothing I have said would make the Ghost Ark not do anything.

The Ghost Ark explicitly states you make Reanimation Protocols rolls, though, which makes it a valid time for the Orb of Eternity to be used. It doesn't say that it's in the manner of RP, or anything implying it's a similar-but-not-the-same effect, it's the same roll, so either the Orb of Eternity is allowed to be used with it since it's a Reanimation Protocols roll, or the Ghost Ark doesn't do anything because RP is done at the start of the turn.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 greatbigtree wrote:
I agree to the legality of the 3 attempts, made in the order described.

Intended? Doubtful. But GW had two opportunities to prevent this. Similar clause to the Ghost Ark on the orb that you can’t use it if the Ghost Ark ability has already targeted a unit, and they could also have specified “after the first RP roll of the turn” which was not done.

That’s a big chunk of unit coming back to life.

To be honest, the Orb of Eternity is already a fairly lacklustre artefact, and you couldn't really plan a strategy around its usage in this way. It would very much be a 'if the opportunity arises' kind of tactic, that I'm more than okay for someone to use if they want to waste an Artefact slot on it and not on something like the Veil of Darkness.

Barge You can make Reanimation Protocol rolls for any slain models from units embarked on a Ghost Ark, even though those units are not on the battlefield. Any models returned to the unit this way are added to the number of models embarked on the Ghost Ark - if any models cannot be returned because there is no more room on the Ghost Ark, they are not returned this turn. In addition, at the end of each of your Movement phases, you can make Reanimation Protocol rolls for slain models <DYNASTY> Warriors unit within 3" of any friendly <DYNASTY> Ghost Arks. You cannot use this ability on a unit that has been the target of a resurrection orb or the Orb of Eternity this turn.

So yes you can use the orb after you make reanimation. Protocols which does happen. If you use the ghost barge.

Oh, I’m not saying someone plans to have 16/20 warriors destroyed to maximize this effect. It’s just unusual for GW to allow the reroll of a reroll, if you get me.

I would say the expection would be to use this instead of a barge to replenish a large unit... because you’d already reanimate 3/4 (?) of the dead models already, you’d only really change that to 11/12 dead models reanimated for the 3rd roll (for the improved roll).

 greatbigtree wrote:
Oh, I’m not saying someone plans to have 16/20 warriors destroyed to maximize this effect. It’s just unusual for GW to allow the reroll of a reroll, if you get me.

I would say the expection would be to use this instead of a barge to replenish a large unit... because you’d already reanimate 3/4 (?) of the dead models already, you’d only really change that to 11/12 dead models reanimated for the 3rd roll (for the improved roll).

It's not a re-roll of a re-roll so much as it's simply re-using the ability. You're never taking previous attempts and trying to better them, you're just making fresh ones and hoping for a good result; whatever you rolled for the previous attempts still stands.

@ Avatar:

Yes, I do get that they are separate rolls, not rerolls. The cumulative effect is the same as multiple rerolls, though.

I doubt that this was an *intended* result, as the Ghost Ark rules seem to be an attempt to prevent a third try on the same turn. However, that’s not how I understand the RAW to work, which is why I support a legal third attempt, in the order outlined.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:
I only quoted rules, I didn't make any rules up. (I never said or implied that "the Orb restrict[s] it to the RP rolls made at the beginning of the turn")

The Ghost ark is used "at the end of each of your Movement phases"

The Orb of eternity needs to be used "once per battle, immediately after you have made your Reanimation Protocols rolls"

The "Reanimation Protocols" is used at the start of your turn. (P.84 Necron codex)

So if you use the Orb of eternity immediately after you have made your Reanimation Protocols rolls, which is used at the start of your turn, you cant use the Ghost ark on the same unit, since the Ghost ark is used at the end of your Movement phase...

Nothing I have said would make the Ghost Ark not do anything.

When you use the Ghost Ark's ability, you "make Reanimation Protocol rolls". Thus you can use the Orb immediately after doing those RP Rolls. Or are you saying "Reanimation Protocol rolls" is not the same as "Reanimation Protocol rolls"?

Except you cant. The res orb states "If a model has a resurrection orb, once per battle, immediately after you have made your Reanimation Protocols rolls at the beginning of the turn, you can make Reanimation Protocols rolls for models from a friendly..."

The resurrection orb stated that it can only be used "immediately after you have made your Reanimation Protocols rolls at the beginning of the turn" So you can not use it after you use the Ghost Arc Reanimation Protocols, since that is not "immediately after you have made your Reanimation Protocols rolls at the beginning of the turn".

 greatbigtree wrote:
I agree to the legality of the 3 attempts, made in the order described.

Yo can agree ll you want, but that does not change the fact that you can not.

 Avatar 720 wrote:


The Ghost Ark explicitly states you make Reanimation Protocols rolls, though, which makes it a valid time for the Orb of Eternity to be used.

Incorrect.as per my rules quotes above.

It doesn't say that it's in the manner of RP, or anything implying it's a similar-but-not-the-same effect, it's the same roll, so either the Orb of Eternity is allowed to be used with it since it's a Reanimation Protocols roll, or the Ghost Ark doesn't do anything because RP is done at the start of the turn.

The Ghost ark is a Reanimation Protocols roll, but it does not happen "at the beginning of the turn" so you can not use the Orb of eternity, because the Orb of eternity replaces "the bearer's resurrection orb" and in the context of the Orb of eternity rule, it is referencing the Reanimation Protocols rolls that happen at the beginning of the turn.

Do not ignore the context.

 DeathReaper wrote:
Except you cant. The res orb states "If a model has a resurrection orb, once per battle, immediately after you have made your Reanimation Protocols rolls at the beginning of the turn, you can make Reanimation Protocols rolls for models from a friendly..."

The resurrection orb stated that it can only be used "immediately after you have made your Reanimation Protocols rolls at the beginning of the turn" So you can not use it after you use the Ghost Arc Reanimation Protocols, since that is not "immediately after you have made your Reanimation Protocols rolls at the beginning of the turn".

You know what, you're absolutely right. Don't I feel like a right lemon.

I will, however, use the egg on my face to make a delicious breakfast roll by stating that you can use the Orb of Eternity after the Ghost Ark's rule, because it says "If a model has the Orb of Eternity, once per battle, immediately after you have made your Reanimation Protocols rolls, you can make Reanimation Protocols rolls for models from a friendly <DYNASTY> INFANTRY unit within 3" of the bearer; when making these rolls add 1 to the result of each roll."

Unlike the Vanilla Orb it doesn't say "immediately after you have made your Reanimation Protocols rolls at the beginning of the turn".

So, you can't do the three RP with a Vanilla Orb, but can with an Orb of Eternity.

No you cant do three with an Orb of Eternity.

You can not ignore the context of the rule.

in context, when the with an Orb of Eternity mentions "immediately after you have made your Reanimation Protocols rolls" it is talking about the Reanimation Protocols rolls from the Reanimation Protocols rule, which happen at the beginning of the turn.

Therefore, when you do not ignore the context, you can not use the Orb of Eternity after you use the Ghost arc rule.

Yeah that changed from he index to the codex, GW did in fact fix it.

Edit: only they didn't fix the relic. It doesn't have that additional limitation as the plain orb has.

 DeathReaper wrote:
No you cant do three with an Orb of Eternity.

You can not ignore the context of the rule.

in context, when the with an Orb of Eternity mentions "immediately after you have made your Reanimation Protocols rolls" it is talking about the Reanimation Protocols rolls from the Reanimation Protocols rule, which happen at the beginning of the turn.

Therefore, when you do not ignore the context, you can not use the Orb of Eternity after you use the Ghost arc rule.

No one is ignoring any rules. The ark allows you to do reanimation protocols rolls. The orb is used after you make reanimation protocols rolls. The orb doesnt say its the reanimation protocols rolls at the beginning of the turn. Reanimation protocols rolls from the ark are reanimation protocols rolls. Perfectly legal. The rules from the ressurection orb dont matter, because the orb of eternity replaces the ressurection orbm, and its rules. This three time reanimation thing is once per battle only, and its easily denied by wiping out the entire warrior squad.

GW didnt fix this in the necron FAQ, so it could be intended to make the relic orb a little more powerful than the standard orb.

 p5freak wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:
No you cant do three with an Orb of Eternity.

You can not ignore the context of the rule.

in context, when the with an Orb of Eternity mentions "immediately after you have made your Reanimation Protocols rolls" it is talking about the Reanimation Protocols rolls from the Reanimation Protocols rule, which happen at the beginning of the turn.

Therefore, when you do not ignore the context, you can not use the Orb of Eternity after you use the Ghost arc rule.

No one is ignoring any rules. The ark allows you to do reanimation protocols rolls. The orb is used after you make reanimation protocols rolls. The orb doesnt say its the reanimation protocols rolls at the beginning of the turn. Reanimation protocols rolls from the ark are reanimation protocols rolls. Perfectly legal. The rules from the ressurection orb dont matter, because the orb of eternity replaces the ressurection orbm, and its rules. This three time reanimation thing is once per battle only, and its easily denied by wiping out the entire warrior squad.

GW didnt fix this in the necron FAQ, so it could be intended to make the relic orb a little more powerful than the standard orb.

You should word yourself more precisely, saying "the orb" and arguing your case in a condescending tone when people in your thread are clearly arguing about types of orbs, doesn't help.

If I'm not mistaken, the "regular orb" has this correctly worded, saying beginning of turn. The relic orb does not have this limitation. It's exactly this crucial difference you are arguing.

torblind wrote:

 p5freak wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:
No you cant do three with an Orb of Eternity.

You can not ignore the context of the rule.

in context, when the with an Orb of Eternity mentions "immediately after you have made your Reanimation Protocols rolls" it is talking about the Reanimation Protocols rolls from the Reanimation Protocols rule, which happen at the beginning of the turn.

Therefore, when you do not ignore the context, you can not use the Orb of Eternity after you use the Ghost arc rule.

No one is ignoring any rules. The ark allows you to do reanimation protocols rolls. The orb is used after you make reanimation protocols rolls. The orb doesnt say its the reanimation protocols rolls at the beginning of the turn. Reanimation protocols rolls from the ark are reanimation protocols rolls. Perfectly legal. The rules from the ressurection orb dont matter, because the orb of eternity replaces the ressurection orbm, and its rules. This three time reanimation thing is once per battle only, and its easily denied by wiping out the entire warrior squad.

GW didnt fix this in the necron FAQ, so it could be intended to make the relic orb a little more powerful than the standard orb.

You should word yourself more precisely, saying "the orb" and arguing your case in a condescending tone when people in your thread are clearly arguing about types of orbs, doesn't help.

If I'm not mistaken, the "regular orb" has this correctly worded, saying beginning of turn. The relic orb does not have this limitation. It's exactly this crucial difference you are arguing.

Are you talking to me ? I did say orb of eternity/relic orb.

Why i get dejavu of 7th ed "i shoot sponsons first so that ordance weapon's snap shot restriction doesn't hinder me"

 p5freak wrote:

Are you talking to me ? I did say orb of eternity/relic orb.

Yeah, in that last post specifically, but I may have been slow to catch up to what the others have already grasped.

Replacing the Res. Orb with the Orb of Eternity does just that, replaces it, the Res. Orb is no longer there. You are no longer bound by any part of the Res. Orb's rules, because you no longer have one. I don't know how one could possibly argue that you still need to refer to the rules of an item you no longer have when using a completely different one.

Within this "context", you do not have a Resurrection Orb, you have an Orb of Eternity. It doesn't matter that you used to have a Res. Orb in the same way that I'm not bound by the same laws as car drivers if I replaced my car with a bicycle; I might be bound by some of them, but they will be given explicitly as dealing with bicycle usage in its new context, and any old ones from my car that are not cease to be relevant.

Does the Ghost Ark specifically say it can't be used alongside the Orb of Eternity?

 JNAProductions wrote:
Does the Ghost Ark specifically say it can't be used alongside the Orb of Eternity?

Only if the Orb of Eternity has already been used, so if the Necron player chose to use it for the Resurrection Protocols rolls at the start of their turn. If they chose not to, then the Ghost Ark may allow you to make Resurrection Protocols rolls on that unit, after which you may immediately use the Orb of Eternity.

 DeathReaper wrote:
No you cant do three with an Orb of Eternity.

You can not ignore the context of the rule.

in context, when the with an Orb of Eternity mentions "immediately after you have made your Reanimation Protocols rolls" it is talking about the Reanimation Protocols rolls from the Reanimation Protocols rule, which happen at the beginning of the turn.

Therefore, when you do not ignore the context, you can not use the Orb of Eternity after you use the Ghost arc rule.

I think you're 100% right. There's no point in stating that the ghost arc can't reanimate if the orb of e. is used when you can simply bypass it by an order of action change. I also don't think anyone is going to shift their positions on this

Yeah the intent seems unmistakable on this

Please dont necro threads.