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I've read the various Wiki's on this topic but I haven't read much into BL eldar books or a lot of eldar books first hand. Are there any books or sources that really explain what they were and how do they relate to the other "Gods" of the setting.

AFAIK nothing really concrete. Considering they tend to interact with other Warp Entities, I just assume they are the same as the "big 4" Chaos Gods, psychic manifestations in the warp.

The current BRB refers to them as ancestor gods, but I've always been under the impression that they were either legendary heroes elevated by myth or creations of the Old Ones or actual Old Ones that interacted with early eldar.

Not sure I could point to any particular source for this, let alone ones that don't contradict each other over the years.

They are very much real things. Several of them survived Slaanesh's birth (in some form or another). Cegorach is hiding in the Webway, Isha is currently imprisoned by Nurgle and Kaela Mensha Khaine is fragmented into his Avatars.

Xenology suggests that they might have been Old Ones, but the issue of whether its canonical is dubious to say the least.

I have always thought it would be really nifty if they eldar gods were old one tech of eldar copy. Like sentient technology that became a living entity.

I've also heard the theory that they were old ones who with time and stress had their minds destroyed and that they were turned into crazy twisted eldar gods.

From my understanding they are the result of hte Eldar psyche on the Warp. Asuryan is their pride and nobility, Isha their vitality and love, Kurnous their wanderlust and curiosity, Khaine their thirst for war, Slaanesh their excess and depravity. Gods of Chaos aren't fundamental forces. "Gods of Chaos" is just a title. Eldar gods aren't much different then Ork gods in my opinion. At some point they didn't exist. In fact, it's hinted that the war between the Old Ones and the Necrontyrs created Khorne as a side effect.

They are real gods, just like the chaos gods, but older. There is pretty strong evidence that they were originally created as psychic weapons to be used against C'tan.

Liber Chaotica wrote:
I watched as the First Ones encouraged the younger race to reach further into the other realm, and with their vibrant minds and passionate souls create beings of power to fight the start gods.

But the battle was long and the first ones were now few, and as their numbers dwindled, so too did their influence over their young creations. Without the wisdom and might of the First Ones to bind them, I saw The Elder's warp-beings evolve from sentient weapons into living gods - the first true gods of the Immaterium.

Yes, the Eldar Gods are basically the predecessors of the current Chaos Gods. They are/were warp entities formed in the reflection of various aspects of the Eldar psyche. If you look at the ritual for awakening the Avatar, it is basically a daemonic summoning ritual, right down the sacrifice of the Young King.

They may well have been intended to act as living weapons by the Old Ones. Vaul certainly did his best to destroy the Void Dragon when he forged Talismans/Blackstone Fortresses.

I don't buy that they were some sort of "ascended" Old Ones. That has always just been a fan theory with no supporting evidence in the fluff.

I always figured they were old ones, but the stories told turned them into gods of myth. The more recent stuff makes them seem more like actual gods like the chaos lot. Which is also cool. But I did like the idea of an old hiding and sneaking around in the webway.

It's not recent, it has pretty much always been like that. Old One origin is a popular fan theory, and one point I used to prefer it too, but it really has never had much, if any, canon support.

The actual gods way way makes more sense so it’s all good.

Well, the Old Ones were basically gods in that they were very, very powerful. I like the idea that the Eldar gods were once specific Old Ones that guided the early Eldar after they created them, but as Eldar are a psychic race, they "remembrance" of these individuals as told in their mythic cycles had created the Eldar gods in the warp.

Similar to how the Emperor was just a very powerful human psyker, but is slowly becoming a god due to humans' collective worship of him.

HoundsofDemos wrote:
I've read the various Wiki's on this topic but I haven't read much into BL eldar books or a lot of eldar books first hand. Are there any books or sources that really explain what they were and how do they relate to the other "Gods" of the setting.

They are warp gods, they are really similar to the old earth Olympian and Mesopotamian gods.

 Karhedron wrote:
Yes, the Eldar Gods are basically the predecessors of the current Chaos Gods. They are/were warp entities formed in the reflection of various aspects of the Eldar psyche. If you look at the ritual for awakening the Avatar, it is basically a daemonic summoning ritual, right down the sacrifice of the Young King.

They may well have been intended to act as living weapons by the Old Ones. Vaul certainly did his best to destroy the Void Dragon when he forged Talismans/Blackstone Fortresses.

I don't buy that they were some sort of "ascended" Old Ones. That has always just been a fan theory with no supporting evidence in the fluff.

But not 'naturally' formed ones. They probably did start as Eldar Heros who were used to form the core of the God with the Old One's help - start off with a mortal core, and effectively raise that up to Daemon prince status, and then layer on the rest of the layers as it continues to be an exemplar of one aspect of Eldar nature. They certainly seem prone to obsession, so this could easily have been the work of the Old Ones in turning the pre-Eldar race into a weapon.

After the War in Heaven, when Eldar can no longer resurrect, they are more traditional gods - and might even be why the Eldar can't resurrect, the Nature of Eldar is now split between several Great Warp entities, so a Eldar soul is just torn into it's various elements between them.
Then the Fall happens, and with most of the Eldar wiped out with the creation of a God of Obsession, the largest psychic imprint on the warp is now of humans rather than Eldar and the Gods change to reflect that (or Slaanesh rips most of the Eldarish nature from the other Warpstorms, leaving them as more fundamental versions of themselves rather than Eldar aspected).

Khaine survives in the various "Daemon weapon" style possessed relics that were formed into Avatars, Cegorach is now a gale whipping through the Webway rather than a storm circling in the Empyrean, and Isha is trapped as an element of Nurgle; the sense of helpless despair a mother feels having lost her children/knowing that your race is going extinct.

When the Warhammer Fantasy world was destroyed in the End Times, the WFB Elf Gods (including Khaine, Isha etc) told the fleeing mortal elves that the elves would become the gods in their next world, and that Isha, Khaine etc were once in fact mortals from a previous world. It's a cycle - powerful heroes become gods in the next "cycle" of the universe.

Since the Fantasy and 40K settings are finally starting to diverge again, it's likely the same with the 40K Eldar.

Especially since the Skaven stole some ancient Lizardmen radio equipment, pointed it into the stars and accidentally contacted the Eldar in space.

And one of the great WFB Wood Elf heroes (Alarielle) that became a God in AoS pantheon cut of her hand to do some magic-y stuff. Remind you of any Eldar Gods?

I didn't think they were mixed universes. Hence why Archaon hasn't been sent to replace Abbadon.

But, how much of this is canon.

Reminds me of my favorite pet (crackpot) fan theory: The Emperor is Morag-Hai in hiding. What fluff disproves that theory?

I made a thread about this years ago where I went over the various theories. They could be C’tans, warp entities (strong deamons/lesser gods, similar to Gork and Mork), old ones, eldar perpetuals (similar to the Emperor) or projects of the old ones. Long story short the warp entities theory seem to be the most popular one.

Edit: By the Emperor! This post is my number 666! Cool!

In my opinion, they are either Old Ones, Warp Entities or another kind of unknown very powerful entity like the C'tan were.
Anyways, there is no way to know what they were 'exactly'. There is no official fluff on it.

When you think about it Slaanesh is an Eldar god too.

 master of asgard wrote:
When you think about it Slaanesh is an Eldar god too.

Shhhhh we don't talk about that.

It’s a very big question.

First, we need some form of consensus of what qualifies as a god in 40k.

By the Christian ideal, none of them are actually gods. They’re certainly powerful beings, but none are absoltely omnipotent. If they were, ‘there would be only one’, on account they’d have destroyed their rivals.

The Big Four are just incredibly powerful entities. But, in theory, no different to the C’tan, on account they still have clear limitations.

Now, The Big Four, alongside Gork and Mork, are the benchmark. They’re existent ‘gods’. And we know they’re warp based reflections of emotions. Far and away the most powerful are Gork and Mork. That’s because every single Greenskin believes in them wholeheartedly. But being a reflection of that most irreverent of races, they rarely look beyond the occasional punch up and clobbering. If it wasn’t for that drawback, they’d have consumed all the other ‘gods’ well before the in-game now.

So who or what are the Eldar Gods? Exactly the same as everything else that’s a major player in The Warp. A manifestation and reflection of a racial psyche.

Perhaps they were once mortal. A genuine living being so inspiring the faith of their followers took shape. Or, they were only ever esoteric ideals, the pursuit of which manifested. And that could entirely depend on which god you’re talking about.

There’s also the concept of racial gods being an aspect of The Big Four. Then there’s the consideration that The Big Four are shared corruptions of trans-species gods. Khorne started out as a god of martial honour. Tzeentch as a god of natural progress. Nurgle as a god of nature. Slaanesh as a god of enjoyment.

If the very broad categories are true (and for arguments sake, I’m saying they are), then such common themes, spread across myriad races, may have afflicted their Warp reflection with a kind of schizophrenia. Lots of subtlety different ideals all tearing the entity in various directions, resulting in utter insanity.

Hence Khorne simply becomes a god of bloodshed, Tzeentch a god of reckless, uncaring, relentless change and mutation, Nurgle a god of thoughtlessly abundant life, Slaanesh a god of utter excess.

Are The Big Four an amalgamation of all the gods of the various species, or were the gods of the various species always aspects of The Big Four?

I don’t think we’ll ever know.

@Mad Doc Grotsnik some intresting thoughts there. I dug up my old thread about this topic. Maybe you’d find it interesting. Warning though, quite the wall of text. https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/707024.page

The Chaos Gods are, IMO, based. pretty explicitly, on the biblical Four Horsemen.

I'm inclined to agree however that the Eldar gods, like the Chaos Gods and the Ork gods, are warp-based psychically created beings.