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I'm sure most of us here know why the policy was implemented, but where GW draws the line is at best, biased, random & inconsistent at its best, and complete horse poo at its worst.

Lets take for example the good old bikes. SM comes with "legal" codex entry for a "Captain on Bike", when bike options for librarian, chaplain, and techmarines were withdrawn at the launch of codex.

Surely, one can assume that the line GW has drawn for these conversion exclusive models is based on the difficulty level for the said conversion/modeling & converting capabilities of hobbists. Which is to say, if it involves chopping and sculpting, it is not a codex legal conversion. Fair enough - to those who aren't as invested in the modelling aspect of the hobby and resort to proxying for these models to play with them. Codex legal conversions MUST be able to be easily kitbashed with simple swapping of parts.

So then exactly what kit/combination of kits make a captain on a bike? Is it as simple as using the aquila backpack amd glue on a iron halo? If so, a librarian can be represented by a psychoc hood bit from gk strike squad and some sort of power weapon, chaplain by a crozium and tech marine by a backpack swap.

Why is captain a valid codex entry while others are not??

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-FI/Space-Marine-White-Scars-Commander

I'm not sure I'd go with "biased", but their policy is seemingly much more arbitrary and capricious than even your OP suggests.

It is perfectly possible to make a Herald of Slaanesh on a Seeker Chariot, or an Exalted Chariot, using all the same design cues from the official mini and the Masque all from one box (the Seeker Chariot box and the SC! Slaanesh Daemons box respectively), yet both were dropped from the Codex.

I think "no model, no rules" annoys me less than "rules, but no stand-alone package for the model". I'd like to buy a Primaris Captain in Gravis Armor, but I can only get him from the Dark Imperium box and nobody I know wants the Plague Marines.

I mean, model but no rules is a bit problematic.

Not to mention official upgrade sprues for models that aren't even legal for matched play - like seriously, what's up with that??

The Newman wrote:
I think "no model, no rules" annoys me less than "rules, but no stand-alone package for the model". I'd like to buy a Primaris Captain in Gravis Armor, but I can only get him from the Dark Imperium box and nobody I know wants the Plague Marines.

I'd recommend using the Plague Marines for bitz or parts of terrain like discarded weapons or dead bodies.

My annoyance is when it's applied inconsistently. Aspiring Sorcerers in Rubric Marine squads can take a force sword or force staff, despite there being no force sword (or any sword) on the sprues. Aspiring Sorcerers in Sekhmet squads, however, can only have a Force Staff. They can swap their gun for a Power Sword, but only the gun. What's the difference between a Force Sword and a Power Sword? Why is the Sekhmet squad so rigid, while the Rubric squad isn't?

I don't have a problem with it, though I do wish they'd make a focus on bringing models for the model-less units than deleting those without models.

Mostly because I want a Medusa that isn't closed-crewed [and my Cannoness wants her jetpack back].

Asdrubael Vect would like a word.

Hilariously, Marine Librarians with a Jump Pack do not have an official model... But made it into the Codexes?

Hmm let me take a gander :

Renegade grenadiers, looted tanks, renegade veterans, big mutants.
Granted most of it is from R&H but still, it hurts when your former centerpiece gets invalidated.

No models no rules attitude simply doesn't make any sense.

Take drukhari: archons can't have blasters anymore via codex but they still can be equipped with agonisers and blast pistols while the official model is a monopose dude with huskblade and splinter pistol, no other bitz to chose from. Why is blaster out of the the codex and other optional weapons don't?

The succubus is also a monopose model with fixed loadout, glaive and agoniser, but with the codex not only she kept the pistols as a possible upgrade but she even GAINED new options that she never had before, all the wych melee weapons. Logic beyond that is impossible to understand.

The haemonculus can also have different options that are available only by kitbashing/conversion.

Meanwhile orks characters lost pretty much all their options, perfectly respecting the "no model no rule" concept.

The Newman wrote:
I think "no model, no rules" annoys me less than "rules, but no stand-alone package for the model". I'd like to buy a Primaris Captain in Gravis Armor, but I can only get him from the Dark Imperium box and nobody I know wants the Plague Marines.

Primaris Space Marine Captain - I'm pretty sure if you just type that into EBay you'll find what you're looking for.

The Newman wrote:
I think "no model, no rules" annoys me less than "rules, but no stand-alone package for the model". I'd like to buy a Primaris Captain in Gravis Armor, but I can only get him from the Dark Imperium box and nobody I know wants the Plague Marines.

Yeah but at least we get a new Lieutenant each month.

Despite the kit having options, the Eldar Autarch has none.
The winged Autarch does though, and is the same kit.
They used the doomed pirate as the template for the base Autarch, it appears, not the actual Autarch kit.

It's especially bizzare that Grey Knights codex explicitly comes with a model that has to be kitbashed and was advertised as such. A Grandmaster in a Dreadknight model doesn't exist - It was suggested to bash one together from the Triumvurate Grandmaster.

Despite so many Primaris lieutenants being sold, you can't buy a Vanilla one from GW.


They don't sell it standalone... It just.... Why

no model no rules and the trend towards uncustomizable model kits is probably the biggest failure of 8th edition 40k.

The entire appeal of 40k over other much, MUCH, MUUUUUUUUCH cheaper hobbies that have similar gameplay aspects is the massive customizability/personalization aspect.

There are so many units, and the units have so many options, and the factions have so many subfactions, and the kits have so many ways to be built and posed, that nobody's army should really look alike. You're completely free to come up with your own stuff, and that's what keeps bringing me and almost every other player I know back to 40k.

These new monopose kits can be as good looking as they want to be, I'll never be compelled to buy more than one of them. Every player's "Shokkjump Dragsta with Kustom Zappa And Rokkit And Shokkjump Boosta" will look completely identical to every other player's. Every player's Primaris Intercessor will look identical to every other player's Primaris Intercessor, barring a couple upgrades available on a couple sprues.

Compare that to my Deathwatch Terminators, who are identically armed to my buddy's Deathwatch Terminators, yet are completely and utterly different, because we used the vast modeling options available to Terminators to create utterly unique squads and individuals.

That's what 40k should be. If I'm going to spend the time and effort to build and paint my own plastic toys, I want them to be MY plastic toys. Not some mass produced cookie cutter crap.

the_scotsman wrote:
no model no rules and the trend towards uncustomizable model kits is probably the biggest failure of 8th edition 40k.

The entire appeal of 40k over other much, MUCH, MUUUUUUUUCH cheaper hobbies that have similar gameplay aspects is the massive customizability/personalization aspect.

There are so many units, and the units have so many options, and the factions have so many subfactions, and the kits have so many ways to be built and posed, that nobody's army should really look alike. You're completely free to come up with your own stuff, and that's what keeps bringing me and almost every other player I know back to 40k.

These new monopose kits can be as good looking as they want to be, I'll never be compelled to buy more than one of them. Every player's "Shokkjump Dragsta with Kustom Zappa And Rokkit And Shokkjump Boosta" will look completely identical to every other player's. Every player's Primaris Intercessor will look identical to every other player's Primaris Intercessor, barring a couple upgrades available on a couple sprues.

Compare that to my Deathwatch Terminators, who are identically armed to my buddy's Deathwatch Terminators, yet are completely and utterly different, because we used the vast modeling options available to Terminators to create utterly unique squads and individuals.

That's what 40k should be. If I'm going to spend the time and effort to build and paint my own plastic toys, I want them to be MY plastic toys. Not some mass produced cookie cutter crap.

Amen. Seconded. Preach. Attaboy.

The model that comes to mind is the Tempestor Prime. The way that the kit is made, the gun arm is also the one that holds the almost-mandatory command rod (+1 order). This means that you can't have the rod and a gun, which is reflected in the unit entry. The rules are at the mercy of the model design, which I feel often doesn't fully consider the rules implications of design decisions.

Indeed, it's a sad, sad time to be in the grimdark world of 40k.

One of the things that stood out to me the most when I started this hobby during the transition to 3rd ed was that boltgun handles HAD to be cut off in order to put them on the hands.

What set aside GW products from rest of ANY plas-model kits was that it wasn't a simple snap fit, glue here solution, but rather it made you step up your game in the assembly and painting of figures. Despite even a very minor 'conversion' you had to do, each and every figure required your attention, and I'm sure many of us here can attest to the fact that modelling and painting is and will be one of the more enjoyable part of the hobby rather than playing cash throwing that is the current WAAC meta.

It's always a matter of scale. Kit bashing a weird combo of kits together to make a model for an HQ is pretty cool and the game should probably support it more. The problem is and always has been when this same style of modeling gets applied to stuff that you're looking to take 10-30 of in an army.

What is worse when they have a unit clearly in model form but not in the codex.

I have an autarch with war jump generator, and howling banshee mask.

and yet conversely FW insist on releasing rules for models they never made - "Toholk the Blind" for example ...

Make your mind up guys!

Reanimation_Protocol wrote:
and yet conversely FW insist on releasing rules for models they never made - "Toholk the Blind" for example ...

Make your mind up guys!

I really wanted to see Bran Redmaw. Sounded like such a cool character.

P.S. Looked it up and found out there was an unreleased Redmaw concept. Oh well...

 NoiseMarine with Tinnitus wrote:
Asdrubael Vect would like a word.

The whole Deldar HQ choices suffer from the whole 'cant be faffed' attitude, no jetbikes, helion boards, Wings etc

 Trickstick wrote:
The model that comes to mind is the Tempestor Prime. The way that the kit is made, the gun arm is also the one that holds the almost-mandatory command rod (+1 order). This means that you can't have the rod and a gun, which is reflected in the unit entry. The rules are at the mercy of the model design, which I feel often doesn't fully consider the rules implications of design decisions.

The Tempestor Prime is just poorly designed, period. A single Order for an HQ choice is a joke.

I understand not giving rules to stuff that absolutely not exist, but this thing has gone way too far. Kitbashing and customising your stuff has always been a big part of the appeal of this hobby. Things that can easily be kitbashed from the kits of the same faction should be allowed.

Perhaps it's the slippery slope to Power Levels. Kits come with fewer and fewer options, until most units have so few, that PL suddenly is a reasonable way to make your army as any customization changes it so little.

Tinfoil hat conspiracy aside, I'm personally not pleased about discovering this change upon my return to 8th Ed. (I'd been away a long time, 2e-3e, and missed much) I rather enjoyed modelling unusual wargear choices and similar for my soldiers.