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Hello everyone! I'm painting up a new fully mechanized Imperial Guard company, but don't know really how to number and assign the Chimerae, etc.

In the current codex, we have this wonderful guide (spoilered because of size) which includes Infantry and Armored companies:


But it does not include fully mechanized infantry companies. So, I'm here to ask you what you think about the basic company organization of an IG mechanized company, mounted in Chimerae or Tauroxes (preferably the former if you feel they must be different).

Some food for thought:
- Obviously, the simplest solution is "but it's just an infantry regiment, so use the infantry company but with a Chimera added per squad." I find this unconvincing, but if you have a good reason for it, let me know.
- Real life mechanized companies tend to have fewer total men than a pure infantry formation, though the terms grow increasingly meaningless as task organization becomes more common.

Any input would be welcome, thank you.

Google WW2 Mechanised Infantry Company. That's a safe bet, I'd say.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
That's what I did for my guys. There's also the Steel Legion fluff from back in 3rd that stated every man and his dog rode in a chimera. Even units that couldn't normally be embarked on a chimera had to purchase one and could mount and dismount: heavy weapons teams for instance.

Units-wise a mechanised company, as far as I can tell, would usually have a tank platoon attached and its own supporting artillery. It's not optimal but each squad should also have its own heavy weapon, usually an anti-armour one. In-game a rocket launcher or lascannon would pretty much fulfill that role.

The key to it, is it's not a tank company. It's mounted infantry with maybe 4 tanks and a few artillery pieces in support.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
In real life you had ground-attack planes and tanks punching through first, followed by the mechanised infantry to mop up and hold positions.

If you had the points, a Vulture or Avenger, a few Leman Russes, two or three basilisks and a tonne of chimera-mounted dudes would reasonably approximate a thrust by a mechanised infantry company.

I think a mechanised infantry company does use the basic infantry company organisation. Basically all squads have their own transport. However a mechanised infantry company will probably (speculation) normally have less platoons than a normal infantry company. You do not have to have 6 platoons. Your regiment can field them as 3 platoons per company, for example.

Artillery and tanks are attached from other regiments. Sometimes in a swapsies manner, where an Infantry platoon (likely mechanised) is attached to an armoured company and a tank squadron from that company is attached to the company the infantry platoon came from. I believe the US army does this (if not at the company level then at the battalion level).

Of course what gets attached to the regiment and/or detached from the regiment is not up to the Colonel of the regiment, but the generals in the Munitorum above him/her.

Google WW2 mechanized infantry company, in particular Wehrmacht and Soviet ones.

I would structure it as follows:

Platoon:
-1 Officer + Command Squad + Chimera (command squad can be outfitted however you want + vox)
-3 Infantry Squads + Chimera for each (flamer, grenade launcher, or plasma for special weapon + vox)
-1 Special Weapons Squad + Chimera (melta for special weapons)
-No heavy weapons in the infantry squads or command squad, no heavy weapons squads.

Company:
-1 Officer + Command Squad + Chimera (command squad can be outfitted however you want + vox)
-1 to 3 veteran Squads + Chimera for each (flamer, grenade launcher, or plasma for special weapons + vox) these act as a bodyguard/personal platoon for the Company Commander
-5 to 10 Mechanized Platoons
-Light Vehicle Support such as sentinels or hellhounds to act as support and outriders

Tactics:
-Roll up on an objective and disembark into cover. You should get there first due to transports. Use the transports as fire support. If you get overrun, mount back up and retreat.
-If you need to assault an objective, blitz them with the chimeras and disembark so they enemy units cannot utilize their cover. Contest the objective with disembarked troops. Tie up heavy hitters in assault with your transport.
-Substitute Chimeras with Tauroxes if you want, but make sure the officer gets a Chimera because there are special stratagems that officers can use with Chimeras. If you are dead set on taurox for everyone drop the voxes, because there is no point in using them at that point.

IIRC in 2nd edition, transports were numbered to match the squad that rode in them. As for size, I don't tend to bother with real-world precedents, but if you must, an Imperial Guard platoon can be anywhere between three and five infantry squads; make your mechanised platoons 3 squads and your non-mechanised five.

Maybe some of the Imperial Armour books may be of help with this. They tend to be quite detailed.

Interesting, thanks for the input guys.

Unfortunately, Imperial Armour doesn't really go into mechanized regiments below the company level. It's a very detailed look at the entire regiment's structure, including Equip. and PAX, but the actual organization within the companies is a mystery (they're just boxes of Chimeras and PAX).

I do plan to number the transports that match the squads, hence this whole thread. I want to make sure I am accurately painting my army to match at least some amount of fluff.

As for your organization, w1zard, I like it, but it is prohibitively expensive for the vision I have for the army. 5 tracks per platoon is quite expensive, points wise.

What I was looking at at 2k is a Company-scale game, though to save on points I was going to do the "Infantry Team"- US Army style, where the mechanized company trades away one of its platoons to an armoured company and the armoured company gives one of its tank platoons to the mech company.

Ideally, I'd end up with 2 platoons of infantry, entirely mounted in tracks, 1 'HQ' platoon (usually just a command squad + commander), and 1 platoon of tanks. Was gonna throw 150 pts of sentinels (Tank hunters with lascannons) or so in there to fill out a brigade, but that's flexible of course.

Currently, my plan is to have 2 25-man platoons in the old Imperial Guard style, with 2 platoon (Company) Commanders and 1 command squad in each, with 2 infantry squads. Those platoons feel kind of anemic, however. The 'HQ' platoon would be Soviet style, so just one track with one commander and one CCS.

The other option is drop the platoons to 21 (2 squads and a commander), then have the company veterans as another 10 man attached to the HQ platoon, and have the HQ platoon with 16 guys including CC. But that results in an 'hq' platoon almost as strong as the line platoons, though it drops the need for Chimerae down to six - two per platoon, inc. HQ platoon.

eugh.

I did exactly the same as you. I even have a StormLord that I use every so often as a transport for the command element. I actually swapped out the 3 sentinels for 3 hellhoubd flame tanks as I thought the sentinels were too 'hi-sci-fi" and the rest could conceivably be rolling around today, let alone 40,000 years into the future. I added an Avenger for air cover.

Each squad (10 of them) has a special and anti-tank weapon and is mounted in a chimera. The lead tank of the tank squadron is a Vanquisher backed up by two battle cannon Leman Russes and a Punisher. I have a park of 3 basilisks and a manticore. And a command chimera with the FW autocannon turret for the Company Commander and his squad. Steel Legion doctrines.

Not very competitive but it looks good and feels like a coherent force.

How do you fit all that in 2k?

I really struggled and had to drop a lot of desired upgrades to simply squeeze in six Chimeras, 3 tanks, 3 Hellhounds, 3 Company commanders, 4 infantry, 1 vet, 1 command squad, and 2 scion squads...

I'm dropping the Hellhounds to Sentinels to get my 7th HQ track, and I can hardly imagine bringing something as large as a Stormlord in points cost!

We usually play at least 2500pts! We're lucky in that nobody in our club plays massively powerful gak and we've all been in the hobby since 2nd and 3rd Edition, so we know what we're doing and what we're looking for out of a game.

In saying that, the above list is the company's 'paper strength' (everything I have painted and in a box). I very rarely get to throw all that down.

Banville wrote:
We usually play at least 2500pts! We're lucky in that nobody in our club plays massively powerful gak and we've all been in the hobby since 2nd and 3rd Edition, so we know what we're doing and what we're looking for out of a game.

In saying that, the above list is the company's 'paper strength' (everything I have painted and in a box). I very rarely get to throw all that down.

Oh, I see, yes. I do that with my superheavy tank regiment... hm.

Well, as it stands, I'm still struggling. I have a vague idea of what I want, but not how to align the game and the background such that I can achieve it.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

Banville wrote:
We usually play at least 2500pts! We're lucky in that nobody in our club plays massively powerful gak and we've all been in the hobby since 2nd and 3rd Edition, so we know what we're doing and what we're looking for out of a game.

In saying that, the above list is the company's 'paper strength' (everything I have painted and in a box). I very rarely get to throw all that down.

Oh, I see, yes. I do that with my superheavy tank regiment... hm.

Well, as it stands, I'm still struggling. I have a vague idea of what I want, but not how to align the game and the background such that I can achieve it.

Yeah, I've seen your Superheavy stuff. It's very cool. I like the fluff you've built up around it, too.

In my head, when fielding half the company or whatever, I rationalise it by saying its a recon in force or something. I do always, though, have every element tracked and all squads have their own panzerfaust equivalent in the shape of a lascannon and an mg in the shape of a plasma gun.

Banville wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

Banville wrote:
We usually play at least 2500pts! We're lucky in that nobody in our club plays massively powerful gak and we've all been in the hobby since 2nd and 3rd Edition, so we know what we're doing and what we're looking for out of a game.

In saying that, the above list is the company's 'paper strength' (everything I have painted and in a box). I very rarely get to throw all that down.

Oh, I see, yes. I do that with my superheavy tank regiment... hm.

Well, as it stands, I'm still struggling. I have a vague idea of what I want, but not how to align the game and the background such that I can achieve it.

Yeah, I've seen your Superheavy stuff. It's very cool. I like the fluff you've built up around it, too.

In my head, when fielding half the company or whatever, I rationalise it by saying its a recon in force or something. I do always, though, have every element tracked and all squads have their own panzerfaust equivalent in the shape of a lascannon and an mg in the shape of a plasma gun.

Thanks!

And yeah, a recon-in-force might be the best way to go. I've also considered just having absurdly tiny platoons, as mentioned, but I can't figure out how to rationalize it. My infantry will be armed with flamethrowers, and so are the Chimeras. Plasma/melta (havent' decided) will be reserved for the vets/command squads, and they'll not have any heavy weapons at all, relying on the armour for that, I think.

The simple answer is to reduce platoon size. You're talking about a company where each squad is far more powerful than one from a pure infantry company, so it would be less dependent on hordes of bodies to make up the same strength. A platoon might only have 2-3 squads, maybe a couple of infantry squads and a SWS or command squad. And you'd probably see more veterans or storm troopers, as only the best troops are worth spending a Chimera on (which, conveniently, makes your army less pathetic on the table). For what it's worth, IA1 2nd edition gives the following FOC for an infantry company attached to an armored regiment:

Company HQ: Salamander x3 | (1+ platoons) | Platoon HQ: squad + Chimera | |--------------------------------------------------- | | (1+ squads) | | | Infantry squad + Chimera HWS + Chimera

Stryker Company


Bradley Company


It depends on how fluffy you want to be (and how much time and money you plan on spending).

Using 40k rules I'd build it the following way.

HQ
CC
Command Squad
2x Mortar Squads
2 Chimeras

3x Platoons
PC
Command Squad
3x INF Squad
4x Chimeras

Total:
4 Officers / 118 Enlisted / 14 Vehicles

You could remove a platoon as well and would still be fluffy, as any unit combat or otherwise being a full authorized strength is difficult even in real life.

This would give you 3 Officers, 84 Enlisted, 10 vehicles. If you want another Company Commander you can fluff him as the XO.

 Nosferatu71 wrote:
Stryker Company

Spoiler:

Bradley Company

Spoiler:

It depends on how fluffy you want to be (and how much time and money you plan on spending).

Using 40k rules I'd build it the following way.

HQ
CC
Command Squad
2x Mortar Squads
2 Chimeras

3x Platoons
PC
Command Squad
3x INF Squad
4x Chimeras

Total:
4 Officers / 118 Enlisted / 14 Vehicles

You could remove a platoon as well and would still be fluffy, as any unit combat or otherwise being a full authorized strength is difficult even in real life.

This would give you 3 Officers, 84 Enlisted, 10 vehicles. If you want another Company Commander you can fluff him as the XO.

This is the direction I've been heading (down a platoon), but it gets expensive. 4 Chimeras per Platoon is 392 points... I suppose it's do-able. Lemme have a go and get back to you. With the mortar squads as heavies I may just be able to manage, though when they also have Chimerae it's not many points savings.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

This is the direction I've been heading (down a platoon), but it gets expensive. 4 Chimeras per Platoon is 392 points... I suppose it's do-able. Lemme have a go and get back to you. With the mortar squads as heavies I may just be able to manage, though when they also have Chimerae it's not many points savings.

392? A chimera at its most basic (multilaser/HB) is 73 points, 4 of those is 292, as of CA2018. A Taurox is 70.

Shouldn't be hard to get a HQ, CS in one, and 3 squads all in Chimeras, plus a second HQ unit, and a special and/or heavy weapons team in another for under 1000. Unless you're going all out on upgrades I suppose.

 Kcalehc wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

This is the direction I've been heading (down a platoon), but it gets expensive. 4 Chimeras per Platoon is 392 points... I suppose it's do-able. Lemme have a go and get back to you. With the mortar squads as heavies I may just be able to manage, though when they also have Chimerae it's not many points savings.

392? A chimera at its most basic (multilaser/HB) is 73 points, 4 of those is 292, as of CA2018. A Taurox is 70.

Shouldn't be hard to get a HQ, CS in one, and 3 squads all in Chimeras, plus a second HQ unit, and a special and/or heavy weapons team in another for under 1000. Unless you're going all out on upgrades I suppose.

Well, I am running the Emperor's Blade Assault Company, so I wanted the company to assault. I've gone Twin Heavy Flamer on each Chimera, plus Track Guards. That way, they're enough of a threat that my opponent cannot ignore them (since even a 1 wound Chimera isn't degraded at all except for the Attacks value). I also wanted the Twin Heavy Flamer because it synergizes best (imo) with the Mechanized Fire Support stratagem.

Basically, I wanted the Chimerae to be threatening tanks in their own right, and the only real scary weapon loadout they have is twin heavy flamer, at least without going to the Forge World variants that didn't see a points drop or anything and are still ridiculous.

What I think I would be looking at is:

1 platoon of 3 squads plus PC (CC for detachments) plus Command Squad ~ 250 ish points (including some space for upgrades.) 4 tracks for the Platoon (PC track plus 3 Squad tracks) is 392. Each Platoon is therefore ~650.

2 platoons is 1300, Company Commander plus track ~1435 or so (again, with space for upgrades). 3 Sentinels = ~150 (upgrades, lol). 1485. Then 3 Russes in the Heavy Supports of the Brigade, probably Demolishers, is 150 each, or 450. I think I could actually fit it in...

Ah, that makes more sense then! Those double HF's will definitely make someone think twice about charging your guys.

Looks like quite a thematic army, from the list you've got there. Might struggle a touch to kill things facing a lot of armor/monsters, but you've enough wounds to soak up a lot of damage while maintaining objective control for sure.

 Kcalehc wrote:
Ah, that makes more sense then! Those double HF's will definitely make someone think twice about charging your guys.

Looks like quite a thematic army, from the list you've got there. Might struggle a touch to kill things facing a lot of armor/monsters, but you've enough wounds to soak up a lot of damage while maintaining objective control for sure.

Yeah, anti-tank is the problem. Throwing the list together stuffs me 100 points over, so I am not sure what the problem is. Should be 9 Chimeras, 3 Russes, 6 Infantry Squads, 3 Command Squads, 3 Officers, and 3 Sentinels, I think. I'll look again.

EDIT: Omitted the CCS and some upgrades from the earlier basic analysis...

EDIT: And I can't split into double Battalion because I have to upgrade to the Emperor's Blade Assault Company, which costs CP per detachment...

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
Yeah, anti-tank is the problem. Throwing the list together stuffs me 100 points over, so I am not sure what the problem is. Should be 9 Chimeras, 3 Russes, 6 Infantry Squads, 3 Command Squads, 3 Officers, and 3 Sentinels, I think. I'll look again.

EDIT: Omitted the CCS and some upgrades from the earlier basic analysis...

EDIT: And I can't split into double Battalion because I have to upgrade to the Emperor's Blade Assault Company, which costs CP per detachment...

If you are lacking on anti-tank, consider arming your sentinels with lascannons, and your command squads with meltaguns. Or consider freeing up some points somewhere and adding SWS with meltaguns in a transport.

You can also throw lascannons onto the hull mounts of your russes, and perhaps consider the devil dog. (Never ran one)

w1zard wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
Yeah, anti-tank is the problem. Throwing the list together stuffs me 100 points over, so I am not sure what the problem is. Should be 9 Chimeras, 3 Russes, 6 Infantry Squads, 3 Command Squads, 3 Officers, and 3 Sentinels, I think. I'll look again.

EDIT: Omitted the CCS and some upgrades from the earlier basic analysis...

EDIT: And I can't split into double Battalion because I have to upgrade to the Emperor's Blade Assault Company, which costs CP per detachment...

If you are lacking on anti-tank, consider arming your sentinels with lascannons, and your command squads with meltaguns. Or consider freeing up some points somewhere and adding SWS with meltaguns in a transport.

You can also throw lascannons onto the hull mounts of your russes, and perhaps consider the devil dog. (Never ran one)

The struggle is even without upgrades things are really tight for points. I'm currently 94 over my goal and ... it's sucky. haha. I'll see what I can do. Considering dropping the russes for Heavy Weapon Squads with Missile Launchers (since they're more mobile in the fluff). They can ride in the command tracks with the platoon and company commanders and CCSs.

Isn't the capacity of a Chimera 12 models? You can cram two heavy or special weapon squads (or a command squad, commissar and special weapon squad) in there.

 AndrewGPaul wrote:
Isn't the capacity of a Chimera 12 models? You can cram two heavy or special weapon squads (or a command squad, commissar and special weapon squad) in there.

Yes, it is! I have lots of empty space in my Chimeras, hence the heavy support HWSs riding along with the HQs.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
The struggle is even without upgrades things are really tight for points. I'm currently 94 over my goal and ... it's sucky. haha. I'll see what I can do. Considering dropping the russes for Heavy Weapon Squads with Missile Launchers (since they're more mobile in the fluff). They can ride in the command tracks with the platoon and company commanders and CCSs.

Thematically, mechanized infantry have little to no heavy or emplaced weapons. Their whole point is to be as mobile as possible. Meltaguns are your friend if you are sticking with this theme.

w1zard wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
The struggle is even without upgrades things are really tight for points. I'm currently 94 over my goal and ... it's sucky. haha. I'll see what I can do. Considering dropping the russes for Heavy Weapon Squads with Missile Launchers (since they're more mobile in the fluff). They can ride in the command tracks with the platoon and company commanders and CCSs.

Thematically, mechanized infantry have little to no heavy or emplaced weapons. Their whole point is to be as mobile as possible. Meltaguns are your friend if you are sticking with this theme.

Yep. I decided you're right and scratched my head thinking of a solution... before finding one.

The Carnodon! Allowing me to take a cheapo main battle tank that isn't NEARLY as good as a Russ, but is 40-50 points cheaper, giving me space to run the tank platoon alongside the mechanized infantry platoons. The full list will be 3 Carnodons, 3 Sentinels, 9 Chimeras, and 75 infantry (35 per platoon plus company command element).

Thought about Devil Dogs? Their main AT punch is Assault, and give them a pintle Storm Bolter and they don't really need to be Tallarn to have reasonable accuracy. The Heavy Bolter will still be going off on BS5, but you're not really taking them for anti-infantry.

They're also even cheaper than Carnodons (even with Track guards).

Sterling191 wrote:
Thought about Devil Dogs? Their main punch is Assault, and give them a pintle Storm Bolter and they don't really need to be Tallarn to have reasonable accuracy.

They're also even cheaper than Carnodons (even with Track guards).

I have, but Devil Dogs are Fast Attack and Carnodons are Heavy Support... *panics* *checks rules* ... yes. They're Heavy Support. I'm trying to fill a Brigade detachment, so I only have to buy the Emperor's Blade Assault Company once for my 9 Chimeras and all the infantry.

Hmm...

Armageddon Basilisks as pseudo SPGs / TDs maybe? Roughly comparable pointswise with the Carnodon and are Heavy Supports.

Sterling191 wrote:
Hmm...

Armageddon Basilisks as pseudo SPGs / TDs maybe? Roughly comparable pointswise with the Carnodon and are Heavy Supports.

Oh! That's a fantastic idea., though my Carnodons are 116 and the Bassie would be 123, which means freeing up 21 pts somewhere, which isn't easy when you're this tight. I had to drop wargear just to fit in the Carno.

I'm also unwilling to use the regular Basilisk, because the open platform etc. doesn't really work with my army's fluff. (From a volcanic Death World - think Io, basically).