Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hi, this is my first post on here. I've been playing 40k for a few years now, started with Necrons but have been playing AdMech quite a lot in this edition. I've mainly been playing Mars in various detachments (and sometimes Imperium soups) to gain access to Cawl. I'm looking to try something a bit different with them down the route of StygiesVIII, the -1 to hit over 12" for the backline and the infiltrate stratagem for cc units seems rather good to pass up. I'm also toying with the idea of a Knight but hoped to get some feedback before making the plunge into 1) my wallet 2) becoming "that guy". Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.


StygiesVIII Brigade (12 CP)
with 1 extra relic (-1 CP)

HQ
Tech-Priest Dominus (Warlord) - Volkite Blaster, Phosphor Serpenta, Relic: Autocadeus of Arkhan Land, WT: Necromechanic
Tech-Priest Dominus - Eradication Ray, Macrostubber, Relic: Pater Cog-Tooth
Tech-Priest Enginseer

Troops
5x Skitarii Rangers - 2 with Transuranic Arquebus
5x Skitarii Rangers - 2 with Transuranic Arquebus
5x Skitarii Rangers - 2 with Transuranic Arquebus
8x Skitarii Vanguard - 2 with Plasma Calivers, Enhanced Data-tether
8x Skitarii Vanguard - 2 with Plasma Calivers, Enhanced Data-tether
8x Skitarii Vanguard - 2 with Plasma Calivers, Enhanced Data-tether

Elites
10x Fulgurite Electro-Priests
8x Sicarian Ruststalkers - All with Razor + Chordclaw
8x Sicarian Ruststalkers - All with Razor + Chordclaw

Fast Attack
Sydonian Dragoon
Sydonian Dragoon
Sydonian Dragoon

Heavy
Onager Dunecrawler - Neutron Laser + Cognis Heavy Stubber, Cognis Heavy Stubber, Broad Spectrum Data-tether
Onager Dunecrawler - Neutron Laser + Cognis Heavy Stubber, Cognis Heavy Stubber, Broad Spectrum Data-tether
Onager Dunecrawler - Icarus Array, Cognis Heavy Stubber, Broad Spectrum Data-tether

Super-Heavy Auxiliary Detachment
House Krast - Knight Gallant - Meltagun, Reaper Chainsword, Thunderstrike Gauntlet


All of this nicely brings me up to 2000pts exactly and has a power level of 132, the highest I've been able to obtain for 2000 pts.

The idea is to place the Dunecrawlers in the backline around the Warlord for re-rolls and repairs, with the option of placing 1 or 2 units of Rangers in this blob to get the re-rolls on snipers and morale guard from the Dunecrawlers. Alternatively, they could be scattered to prevent deep-strikes and make sure that no character is safe (MWAHHAHA). The Vanguards are there to move around as quickly as possible obtaining objectives or covering Rangers from deep-striking units, with the Dragoons backing them up, creating distractions for the Gallant or being perilously ignored because of the Gallant. Gallant will literally just move forward as quickly as possible to cause as much damage as it can with the poor little Enginseer running after him to maybe get a wound or two back. I could use the infiltrate stratagem to drop him near to where the Gallant is heading and save his legs a bit and possibly get the Knight back on top wound track.

But before all of this is going on, I'll be using the infiltrate stratagem to drop in the Fulgurites in front of the most kill able unit for the 3++, then the Ruststalkers in tandem supported by the other Dominus for possible 1 wound repairs and further CC damage in front of another unit(s). Hopefully this can take some of the heat away from the Gallant, Dragoons and/or Vanguard allowing them to get to offensive positions and/or obtain objectives.

This with the extra relic will take 15CP down to 10CP (9CP if I do the Enginseer as well) leaving plenty to cover Fulgurites the 3CP to fight again should they need to for the 3++ and the 1CP to give the Gallant Canticles of the Omnissiah each turn (hopefully 3). Which would worst case scenario leaves me with 3CP for keeping the Gallant on top wound track, Doctrina stratagems, double repairs and/or re-rolls.

I look forward to any feedback that you have and thank you for your time.

There was a change made if you are playing by ITC rules, that the infiltrate stratagem of Stygies8 is now essentially a scout move.

So this sort of makes electropriests a bit worse, the recommended way to use them now seems to be to take the FW drill unit and use that to bring them up the field.

Infiltrators are a bit better than rust stalkers, might want to consider those.

Dragoons are very good with Stygies, if you wanted to add more of those it would probably be to your benefit. Remember that they have Incense Cloud, which gives them -1 from enemy shooting, so being stygies makes it -2 if they are 12" out. This really helps ensure they get into CC and are able to charge things.

If you can change your Gallant to a Crusader, those suit admech a bit more, it allows you to get more out of a repairbot HQ, the gallant will run away from your healer and won't ever really get to drop big healing on it.

2 is to many arquebuses in one squad they are too vulnerable

Rust stalkers are a weak choice and see above for the priests sydonian dragoons function better as a a single unit if you want individuals to fill out a brigade id go ballistarii

Thanks for the feedback guys.

I am now aware of the FAQ errata making the infiltrate stratagem as you say a scout move so thank you. I'm not sure how I'd go about getting a Termite Drill into the list without dropping the knight, any ideas? Also with the deep-strike being restricted to turn 2 now, wouldn't this make them seem a bit more redundant as a lot of games finish rather quickly now?

If this wasn't viable the foot-slogging Fulgurites could still make it to a 9" charge provided there are frontline enemy units. Does seem quite an ask to achieve but a single dice re-roll could make all the difference. I do believe that eliminating a unit for the 3++ and piling in after to potentially tying down another unit(s) is very worth the risk. Or am I being too much of an optimist than a realist?

Even if they don't make the charge surely with shroudspalm, the -1 to hit over 12" a 5++ and a 5+ FNP they could take a lot of shtick and draw fire away from the knight and other units, then pretty much guaranteed a successful Turn 2 charge. Wouldn't this be better than not having them there at all?

As for the Infiltrators how much better are they than Ruststalkers, would 6 Infiltrators be better than 8 Ruststalkers? Also what load out would you take? Again my concern is them not being able to deep-strike until Turn 2, which would mean leaving the Dominus I planned to run with them open for Turn 1 or being placed elsewhere.

Using the Ruststalkers and infiltrate stratagem would leave a 7" charge to frontline enemies and by having 2 units of them would make it likely for 1 to make it at least. Again to either eliminate or tie down units seems better than leaving to cause damage elsewhere. Also with some good charge rolls and good positioning I think I could probably tie down several units at once.

The Dragoons are good, like you say with the -2 to hit over 12" with the incense cloud making them awkward to take down. I would take more like you say or at least group them into 1 unit but the Brigade needs 3x Fast Attacks hence why they're seperate, but this does mean I can run them with each Vanguard unit. I could change from a Brigade to maybe 2 Battalions to counter this but that would mean taking another HQ and less CP. In my experience AdMech normally need to eat CP like no tomorrow to be competitive or maybe I'm not doing it right. To keep the Brigade you mention Ballistarii, I would have to run these with Autocannons with the list as is, would they be effective running with Vanguard? Would free up some points to maybe change the Knight or add some more Infiltrators to make them more dangerous.

I'll have to look into the Crusader, would it be worthwhile sitting in a backline? As I had planned to use the Repairbot HQ sitting with the Dunecrawlers. Or do you think it would be viable to have a moving castle as such seeing that the Dunecrawlers don't suffer from the -1 to Heavy weapons when moving?

The plan with the Gallant was to rush, shock and awe either causing a distraction or being distracted from by the in your face Fulgurites and Ruststalkers. Also using the infiltrate stratagem and advancing on the Enginseer can give him a head start to stay with it. Tbh the Enginseer is purely there to fill out a HQ slot and is 100% expendable, so should he fail to repair a wound or 2 I wouldn't be that bothered. Or is that playing a Knight like that wrong?

In terms of the 2 snipers per 5 Rangers being too vulnerable, surely having Shroudspalm as well as -1 to hit over 12" would mitigate this? As well as using Vanguards and whatever Sydonians I decide to use to minimise deep-striking areas and be on their support would make them viable? I've used them like this a lot in Mars line-ups, admittedly Cawl pretty much gave them Shroudspalm most turns allowing them to brush off a hell of a lot, to me they don't seem that vulnerable, maybe I've just been lucky.

Thanks again for the feedback I do appreciate it and sorry I do go on a bit.

The Infiltrators actually have - infiltrate, the ruststalkers don't. So you don't have to spend any CP on the stratagem for them. You want taser goads on them they count as 3 attacks on a 6.

I think the rangers are fine with 2 arquebus, as long as they are back in the firing line and not moving up, as long as you have forward forces "which you will" there is no reason for anything to be in range to shoot at the them.

You can dump the priests and just stack up on dragoons, you want to try to use Machine Spirit's Revenge if you can, so try to base as many things as possible and use the explosion to punish them for fighting you, you want to do this with the single dragoons, not the 3x group.

If you take a single knight, like a Crusader, I recommend you go house Krast so you can take the Headsman's Mark relic, it increase the damage your weapons do by 1 to models with 10W+ and increase the damage by 2 vs titanic units. You take Ion Bulwark WL trait to get a 4++ save against ranged, then when you get shot at, use the Rotate Ion Shields stratagem which will give you a 3++ on your knight against ranged attacks. The thermal cannon is ideal for most scenarios as it has the same range as the AGC, most people don't take the RFBC with admech. You can also use Knight of the Cog to give the crusader reroll 1's on shooting when you choose it, and give him shroudpsalm to guarantee cover save.






++ Super-Heavy Auxiliary Detachment (Imperium - Imperial Knights) [25 PL, -2CP, 497pts] ++


Exalted Court [-1CP]: Exalted Court: 1 Extra Warlord Trait

Heirlooms of the Household [-1CP]: Heirlooms of the Household: 1 Extra Heirloom

Household Choice: House Krast, Questor Mechanicus

+ Lord of War +

Knight Crusader [25 PL, 497pts]: Character (Exalted Court), Character (Heirloom of the House), Heavy Stubber, Heirloom (Krast): The Headsman's Mark, Stormspear Rocket Pod, Thermal Cannon, Warlord Trait: Ion Bulwark
Avenger Gatling Cannon w/ Heavy Flamer: Avenger Gatling Cannon, Heavy Flamer

++ Brigade Detachment +12CP (Imperium - Adeptus Mechanicus) [95 PL, 15CP, 1501pts] ++

Battle-forged CP [3CP]

Detachment CP [12CP]

Forge World Choice: Forge World: Stygies VIII

+ HQ +

Tech-Priest Dominus [7 PL, 90pts]: Macrostubber, Volkite Blaster

Tech-Priest Dominus [7 PL, 90pts]: Macrostubber, Volkite Blaster
Warlord: Warlord Trait (Codex 1): Monitor Malevolus

Tech-Priest Enginseer [3 PL, 30pts]

+ Troops +

Skitarii Rangers [4 PL, 65pts]
Ranger Alpha: Galvanic Rifle
2x Skitarii Ranger
2x Skitarii Ranger (Transuranic Arquebus)

Skitarii Rangers [4 PL, 65pts]
Ranger Alpha: Galvanic Rifle
2x Skitarii Ranger
2x Skitarii Ranger (Transuranic Arquebus)

Skitarii Rangers [4 PL, 65pts]
Ranger Alpha: Galvanic Rifle
2x Skitarii Ranger
2x Skitarii Ranger (Transuranic Arquebus):

Skitarii Vanguards [4 PL, 40pts]: 4x Skitarii Vanguard
Vanguard Alpha: Radium Carbine

Skitarii Vanguards [4 PL, 48pts]
2x Skitarii Vanguard
2x Skitarii Vanguard (Arc Rifle): 2x Arc Rifle
Vanguard Alpha: Radium Carbine

Skitarii Vanguards [4 PL, 48pts]
2x Skitarii Vanguard
2x Skitarii Vanguard (Arc Rifle): 2x Arc Rifle
Vanguard Alpha: Radium Carbine

+ Elites +

Sicarian Infiltrators [6 PL, 90pts]
Infiltrator Princeps
Flechette Blaster and Taser Goad:
4x Sicarian Infiltrator (Flechette/Taser):

Sicarian Infiltrators [6 PL, 90pts]
Infiltrator Princeps
Flechette Blaster and Taser Goad:
4x Sicarian Infiltrator (Flechette/Taser)

Sicarian Infiltrators [6 PL, 90pts]
Infiltrator Princeps
Flechette Blaster and Taser Goad:
4x Sicarian Infiltrator (Flechette/Taser)

+ Fast Attack +

Sydonian Dragoons [3 PL, 68pts]
Sydonian Dragoon: Taser Lance

Sydonian Dragoons [3 PL, 68pts]
Sydonian Dragoon: Taser Lance

Sydonian Dragoons [9 PL, 204pts]
Sydonian Dragoon: Taser Lance
Sydonian Dragoon: Taser Lance
Sydonian Dragoon: Taser Lance

+ Heavy Support +

Onager Dunecrawler [7 PL, 119pts]: Cognis Heavy Stubber
Neutron Laser and Cognis Heavy Stubber: Cognis Heavy Stubber, Neutron Laser

Onager Dunecrawler [7 PL, 119pts]: Cognis Heavy Stubber
Neutron Laser and Cognis Heavy Stubber: Cognis Heavy Stubber, Neutron Laser

Onager Dunecrawler [7 PL, 112pts]: Cognis Heavy Stubber, Icarus Array

D'oh hence why they are called Infiltrators.

I always play my Sniper Rangers in the backline and keep them there. The character damage output and unit longevity far outweighs having all 5 models shoot but 30" is still rather far for a rapid fire weapon should something come close enough. I'll also hopefully have Vanguard and Sydonians to help them out if needed.

I like the list, I think you're right in dropping the Fulgurites and Ruststalkers for Infiltrators and 3 Dragoons as 1 is a lot better than 3 individuals. I would make some changes to it though:

1) Make the Crusader Taranis for the Fury of Mars Relic as you'd probably use the Krast Relic on the TC 9/10 and I think an additional 12" range and always picking the higher of 2 D6 damage on all shots at any model would be more beneficial than +1 damage to 10+W models.

2) Change the 2 single Dragoons for Ballistarii like U02dah4 suggested, they would have to take Autocannons but they'd be used to help out the Vanguard and with the extra points I'd be able to tweak the Vanguard a bit. I could still use the explode stratagem should the last Dragoon go down.

3) Keep the Vanguard in 3 units of 5 and keep 1 of them with 2 Arc Rifles but change the other 2 to take 1 Plasma each so they're not losing shots when advancing which seems likely to obtain objectives and the like.

4) Have the TPD Warlord Trait changed to Necromechanic and equip him with the Arkhan Land relic. Have him babysit the Dunecrawlers and Crusader for the shooting buffs and potential to repair the crawlers 8W or the Crusader 4W. Would also give him the Serpenta over the pistol for the range as he won't be going anywhere.

5) Give the other TPD an Eradication Ray and Pater Cog-Tooth, and infiltrate him and the Enginseer with the Infiltrators. They'll have to advance first turn to keep up with the Infiltrators for the shooting buff. The Infiltrators should live long enough to stop them being targeted until they get to CC and they can both repair each other D3 as well as TPD self-healing for longevity.

What do you think?

Once again thanks for the feedback.

Goldenbrew wrote:
D'oh hence why they are called Infiltrators.

I always play my Sniper Rangers in the backline and keep them there. The character damage output and unit longevity far outweighs having all 5 models shoot but 30" is still rather far for a rapid fire weapon should something come close enough. I'll also hopefully have Vanguard and Sydonians to help them out if needed.

I like the list, I think you're right in dropping the Fulgurites and Ruststalkers for Infiltrators and 3 Dragoons as 1 is a lot better than 3 individuals. I would make some changes to it though:

1) Make the Crusader Taranis for the Fury of Mars Relic as you'd probably use the Krast Relic on the TC 9/10 and I think an additional 12" range and always picking the higher of 2 D6 damage on all shots at any model would be more beneficial than +1 damage to 10+W models.

2) Change the 2 single Dragoons for Ballistarii like U02dah4 suggested, they would have to take Autocannons but they'd be used to help out the Vanguard and with the extra points I'd be able to tweak the Vanguard a bit. I could still use the explode stratagem should the last Dragoon go down.

3) Keep the Vanguard in 3 units of 5 and keep 1 of them with 2 Arc Rifles but change the other 2 to take 1 Plasma each so they're not losing shots when advancing which seems likely to obtain objectives and the like.

4) Have the TPD Warlord Trait changed to Necromechanic and equip him with the Arkhan Land relic. Have him babysit the Dunecrawlers and Crusader for the shooting buffs and potential to repair the crawlers 8W or the Crusader 4W. Would also give him the Serpenta over the pistol for the range as he won't be going anywhere.

5) Give the other TPD an Eradication Ray and Pater Cog-Tooth, and infiltrate him and the Enginseer with the Infiltrators. They'll have to advance first turn to keep up with the Infiltrators for the shooting buff. The Infiltrators should live long enough to stop them being targeted until they get to CC and they can both repair each other D3 as well as TPD self-healing for longevity.

What do you think?

Once again thanks for the feedback.

1. I still think Krast is the right choice. Rember it is +1 against 10W+ but it is +2 against Titanic, meaning the Avenger Gatling Cannon does 4 damage per shot against another knight. Math hammer has shown the AGC to be the best weapon a knight can have for shooting, consider in this case you are rolling 12, 4 dmg attacks and +2 to every d6 you roll for damage on the thermal cannon, vs picking the higher of 2 rolls on a single damage instance with no buff to the AGC. In addition all the minimum rolls on the TC, lets say you roll 1 and 3, so you take the 3, but with Krast you would do 3 damage anyway. Krast guarantees you minimum 3 damage per TC wound that gets through. The extra range sort of doesnt matter, if you aren't firing with the AGC at the other knight and just using the TC, if you fight against a Castellan, it will outshoot you with it's own cannons. If you want to win that fight you need to be within 36" in order to apply maximum firepower at your disposal. If you still want to do it, feel free, but I don't think its correct.

2. You could change the single dragoons, sure. With 2 Neutron Lasers and a TC you already sort of have your AT covered. Not sure if the Balistarii will help you as much but you can try it out.

3. Arc Rifles are more point efficient but adding a little plasma couldn't hurt. Wasn't sure if you were planning on moving a Dominus up with them, as the rerolls would help there.

4. Disagree on the WL Trait, you want to be using rotate ion shields every turn. If anyone can shoot at you, they are going to shooting at the knight, probably with majority of what they have. It is important to have Monitor in this case so that you can keep getting CP back to use on your stratagems, particularly if you want to use Knight of the Cog to give him canticles, and you would probably be using Protector Doctrina on a dunecrawler every turn also, so you are looking at burning 2-3 CP a turn already on your own, without even accounting for reactionary things you might do. You also don't want the Crusader and the Dunecrawlers to stand together if you can help it, as you don't want some melee unit able to get in and tie up all your ranged units together, at once. Now if you want to spend a CP to give a WL trait to the enginseer and stick him with the crusader, that would probably be ok. You don't really need the relic, as I don't see anyone priorizing the Dunecrawlers over the Crusader and if they do, great. I would just be better to save the CP.

5. I don't think the Eradication Array is worth taking. If you are going to move, you are going to have the - hit penalty already. Your goal with TPD shouldn't be to get within 8" for the array to matter, and you are more likely to get some mortal wounds when moving and shooting. Would take just the one free relic you get, whether you want the axe or arkhan land, but I don't think spending CP is worth it.

Build it as you like of course, but those are my thoughts.

1) You're right, I misread it, thought it was pick a weapon.

2) I don't think the Autocannons are good enough for AT. Was planning to the give the Vanguard added support against light vehicles and deep-strikers like Terminators.

3) I wanted to still be able to advance them without losing shots from the Arc rifles. Will mainly use these as objective grabbers and get them there quickly along with Ballistarii. I could run the TPD with the Arc unit as they wouldn't be advancing to keep shooting. Would also save the CP of getting the TPD up with the Infiltrators.

4) I'll agree to disagree on this one. It would be nice to get the CP back but a 1/6 is a bit like peeing in the wind, I think the extra repair would be more of an advantage. If it was a 5+ like with the Ultramarines then I'd definitely go with it but sadly it's not.
I could use 2 units of Rangers and the Arc Vanguard + TPD with them to eliminate deep-strike space around the heavy blob and hopefully any foot-sloggers would be blasted away before they get too close.
I would drop the relic as I get where you're coming from. That would take me back up to 12CP which would give 3CP each turn until 4 and by then the game is done or pretty much. Again that's why I think the Monitor trait isn't worth it.

5) The Eradication Ray has proved very effective in other games for me. By having the TPD up with the Infiltrators he was going to be in that range and CC, also why I gave him the PCT. Used like this before alongside Cawl and went through an IG backline like a knife through butter and they repaired each other, hence why I wanted to take the Enginseer with him.
Taking your advice though in playing him with the Vanguard I won't need the ER or the PCT. Also by dropping the other relic I could get another for free, maybe give this guy the Phosphoenix.

Looking forward to more of your thoughts as you've been a great help. Hoping to get something really solid before spending out on models again, the missus hates it when I say I need more. Obviously it'll probably need some tweaks after being in the field a few times. Again thanks for the feedback.