Transports need to have their capacity completely reworked.

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**Danny slag**

This is something that's boggled me for years. Most transports in the game have a capacity of the minimum squad size, usually 5 or 10. This to me is one of the many rules that makes me think the rules writers don't actually play 40k because anyone who plays immediately knows the irritation that you can't fit any characters in your transports. It's as if they've never played a game of 40k so it's never dawned on them that you want your characters near other units and you can't fit them in transports. It boggles the mind why this painfully obvious thing is overlooked. It's so silly and nonsensical and leads to goofiness like your characters deep striking next to the squad after it embarks or riding in a transport completely empty except for themselves. I guess I struggle to even put into words how mind numbingly obvious this is. Not only would it smooth out how transports work, it would be more fluffy and less "gamey,' while also fitting how the game is played better. It would mean that bikes/jetpacks/deepstriking aren't so mandatory to make a character useful. It would make transports more viable and able to do what they're supposed to do.

Every transport should have a capacity that makes sense for how the game is played, generally 6 or 12 to fit the two most common min squad sizes + 1 or 2 characters.

**nareik**

A couple of points,

1) Visually, characters look better on the field as centrepieces, rather than on a sideboard because they're being transported.

2) Command Rhinos! Such a high ranking individual is not going to suffer the indignity of the cramped confines of a usual APC stuffed full of grunts, no they need a comfy chair with all sorts of surveillance and comms gizmos!

This second point also links back to the first point; in the absence of your awesome character model on the table top, at least you get to do an exquisitely lavished command vehicle instead, covered in all sorts of superficial artifice and fresco.

**Peregrine**

Or you could take a 5-man squad plus a character in a transport that can carry 10 models, or take a 9-man squad to leave room for the character. In fact, you'll notice that many/most factions have the option to take a small command squad which will fit nicely in a transport along with the HQ.

**SHUPPET**

nareik wrote:

2) Command Rhinos! Such a high ranking individual is not going to suffer the indignity of the cramped confines of a usual APC stuffed full of grunts, no they need a comfy chair with all sorts of surveillance and comms gizmos!

I disagree, all but Chapter Masters and often not even them join the rest of the units in whatever style of deployment they are using, be it drop pods, vehicles, whatever. And for things like GSC, something like a Clamavus would deploy with whatever the boys are taking, there isn't a command rhino available even if he wasnt

**Stormonu**

GW doesn't account for loading characters into transport because for every edition prior to 8E, they had their own - bikes, jump packs, wings, disks of tzeench, etc.

**Sgt. Cortez**

My 7 Plague Marines fit in a Rhino just fine along some characters, and that since 3rd edition...

**tneva82**

SHUPPET wrote:
nareik wrote:

2) Command Rhinos! Such a high ranking individual is not going to suffer the indignity of the cramped confines of a usual APC stuffed full of grunts, no they need a comfy chair with all sorts of surveillance and comms gizmos!

I disagree, all but Chapter Masters and often not even them join the rest of the units in whatever style of deployment they are using, be it drop pods, vehicles, whatever. And for things like GSC, something like a Clamavus would deploy with whatever the boys are taking, there isn't a command rhino available even if he wasnt

Actually command rhino's is the answer. Company has 10 squads + command squad for HQ each with transport of their own(1 rhino or 2 razorbacks). THAT is fluffy. Not 11 marine rhino's.

**Snake Tortoise**

I completely agree with the OP. A character and unit of 9 is really annoying, especially when that means the unit has to take one fewer special/heavy weapon. Also not being able to put a terminator squad and character in a land raider too. At least with the rhino you can take a character and small unit

**Slayer-Fan123**

I think 8th edition transports need to be reworked in general.

**Overread**

Command Rhinos? What Heresy is this?!

Command Land Raiders that's where the future and past is. They are legit models too, featured in Epic 40K way back years ago. A proper transport for your commander and their comfy chair!

**The Phazer**

I agree with OP. This has felt silly for years.

**vipoid**

This has been an issue with DE for years, especially since GW has refused to give our HQs any alternative mobility options (not like we already use Jetbikes, Wings or Skyboards . . . oh, wait).

However, some genius at GW then decided to take this even further by upping the minimum squad size on all our units. So whilst Incubi, Mandrakes, Wracks and Trueborn use to start at 3-man squads (hence, you could easily fit an Archon with them in the 5-capacity Venom), they're now all 5-man minimum. So if you want an Archon in a Venom he's going to be pretty damn lonely in there.

**ccs**

Snake Tortoise wrote:
A character and unit of 9 is really annoying, especially when that means the unit has to take one fewer special/heavy weapon.

What unit am I not thinking of that you'd have to give up a special/heavy weapon vs a regular trooper?

Snake Tortoise wrote:
Also not being able to put a terminator squad and character in a land raider too. At least with the rhino you can take a character and small unit

They make Landraiders that can hold a termie squad + character(s). Buy the correct model & pay the points for them.

**Stux**

ccs wrote:
Snake Tortoise wrote:
A character and unit of 9 is really annoying, especially when that means the unit has to take one fewer special/heavy weapon.

What unit am I not thinking of that you'd have to give up a special/heavy weapon vs a regular trooper?

Tacs, for one? You only get the second special/heavy at 10 models.

**Skinnereal**

Stormonu wrote:
GW doesn't account for loading characters into transport because for every edition prior to 8E, they had their own - bikes, jump packs, wings, disks of tzeench, etc.

If only they hadn't stripped all of that away and gone for mono-pose models on foot instead.
I want my command bike squad back.

**Brutus_Apex**

Absolutely, there is no need for this 5/10 cap ridiculousness on transports.

Adding characters is key. Especially when you have to sacrifice weapon options for units when making squads 9 man units.

This is especially egregious for Dark Eldar who have no other options.

I can’t even take 4 man incubi squads anymore like we used to.

Who argues against this?

**C4790M**

My main issue is that transports are useless for transporting units quickly. You should really be able to disembark after the vehicle moves but the unit then can’t move for the rest of the phase.

**Mad Doc Grotsnik**

Do you want to transport your troops in relative safety. Or do you want them benefitting from a Bubblebuff character.

Why, it's almost as if it's an intentional tactical decision to be made.

So no, I'm afraid I don't agree with the OP.

**Overread**

Skinnereal wrote:
Stormonu wrote:
GW doesn't account for loading characters into transport because for every edition prior to 8E, they had their own - bikes, jump packs, wings, disks of tzeench, etc.
If only they hadn't stripped all of that away and gone for mono-pose models on foot instead.
I want my command bike squad back.

I think part of the problem is that commander models sell very low volume to each gamer. In fact many are one-sale events. As a result with plastics its not as profitable when you compare it to the high cost of moulds. A Lot of the earlier (not all) heroes with vehicles were either conversions (never had a model) or they were part metal (eg a bike would be the standard used by regular troops and the rider in metal) or full metal so that the mould costs were far less.

It's part of the issue with plastics.

Heck some armies like the old Wood Elves had half a dozen or more leaders just for different weapon options.

**Nerak**

Imperial guard chimeras have always been able to carry 12 models, 10 + characters. Razorbacks have 6, 5 + character. Razorbacks has been really cheap as well if you go the heavy bolter turret. I agree though that it's a little absurd not every transport have an odd number as its basic transport capacity.

**Skinnereal**

To make this worse, did some SM codexes have 10-man pods and Rhinos, and others had 12?

**the_scotsman**

Danny slag wrote:
This is something that's boggled me for years. Most transports in the game have a capacity of the minimum squad size, usually 5 or 10. This to me is one of the many rules that makes me think the rules writers don't actually play 40k because anyone who plays immediately knows the irritation that you can't fit any characters in your transports. It's as if they've never played a game of 40k so it's never dawned on them that you want your characters near other units and you can't fit them in transports. It boggles the mind why this painfully obvious thing is overlooked. It's so silly and nonsensical and leads to goofiness like your characters deep striking next to the squad after it embarks or riding in a transport completely empty except for themselves. I guess I struggle to even put into words how mind numbingly obvious this is. Not only would it smooth out how transports work, it would be more fluffy and less "gamey,' while also fitting how the game is played better. It would mean that bikes/jetpacks/deepstriking aren't so mandatory to make a character useful. It would make transports more viable and able to do what they're supposed to do.

Every transport should have a capacity that makes sense for how the game is played, generally 6 or 12 to fit the two most common min squad sizes + 1 or 2 characters.[/quote

"Most":

Rhino
Venom
Taurox
Raider
LSS
Goliath Truck
Land Raider

"Not Most":

Wave Serpent
Razorback
Skyweaver
Falcon
Chimera
Valkyrie
Vendetta
Goliath Rockgrinder
Trukk
Battlewagon
Land Raider Crusader
Stormraven

These are the ones I can remember. Seems like "most" transports do actually transport more than a minimum squad.

**Mad Doc Grotsnik**

Skinnereal wrote:
To make this worse, did some SM codexes have 10-man pods and Rhinos, and others had 12?

Whilst far from sure, you may be thinking of Landraiders in a previous edition?

**creeping-deth87**

Wasn't Land Raiders, I believe Space Wolves in 5th edition had 12-man drop pods while everyone else was stuck with 10.

**Karol**

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Do you want to transport your troops in relative safety. Or do you want them benefitting from a Bubblebuff character.

Why, it's almost as if it's an intentional tactical decision to be made.

So no, I'm afraid I don't agree with the OP.

In a world of castellans and LoSless fire, such a thing as relative safty in a transport is very relative.

**Mad Doc Grotsnik**

Still have to go through the Transport to get at the squishy interior. And given Troops do best holding objectives, still totes worth it.

**Karol**

I don't know a unit of termintors seems more resilient than a Land Raider, doesn't cost much more then the land raider that is suppose to be transporting them. Plus the termintors can melee, and don't stop doing anything, just because someone decided to conga some jetbikes across the table.

**Mad Doc Grotsnik**

Land Raider isn't specifically and only a transport though. It's also a mainline battle tank.

**Karol**

It is a horrible battle tank for how much it costs. And there aren't really other options to transport termintors. They can't even deep strike turn 1 anymore.

**bullyboy**

I can't agree with the OP. If you are going to take the tac sqd as an example, it has 10 guys that fit into the rhino. A Commander is supposed to be with his own command sqd in a separate rhino. So take a unit of vets, an apothecary, champ and ancient, place in a second rhino. That is the "fluff". If you don't want the fluff, take 9 men and shove your character in the last spot. Simples.