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^Subject.

I've yet to play as DW and GK. I'd like to try them out but the idea of getting trumped by hordes makes me apprehensive. Tips?

Your not the only one who wants to know. Come out the closet DW players!

Are you asking about missions that are scored at the end of the game or missions that are scored on each turn?

I believe in general, the strategy is to kill as much as possible as fast as possible taking a little risk to your team as needed. Which I know is much easier said than done.

Make use of multi-attack weapons split firing where you can to put as much hurt as possible early game. Follow this up with making objective holders suffer especially if the game doesn't allow Shaken units to hold objectives. By mid-ish to late game, if things are going well, the opposing team should be looking to make break tests. You should be able to also be able to dominate objectives by late game if you can eliminate or shake enough of the opposing team.

As Scott mentioned, progressive scoring for 5-6 unit teams is really tough since they generally have to try and make a come back during the second half of the game. Even more difficult, it the mission have variable number of rounds making it hard to judge just how much you need to push. In progressive scoring, you may have go big, or go home making several high risk, high reward plays just to have a chance at victory. End of game scoring is still tough, but you can be a little more careful. Either case requires the player to know how much their team accomplish per round and be very efficient and precise with the limited amount of actions they have.

 Saturmorn Carvilli wrote:
I believe in general, the strategy is to kill as much as possible as fast as possible taking a little risk to your team as needed. Which I know is much easier said than done.

Make use of multi-attack weapons split firing where you can to put as much hurt as possible early game. Follow this up with making objective holders suffer especially if the game doesn't allow Shaken units to hold objectives. By mid-ish to late game, if things are going well, the opposing team should be looking to make break tests. You should be able to also be able to dominate objectives by late game if you can eliminate or shake enough of the opposing team.

As Scott mentioned, progressive scoring for 5-6 unit teams is really tough since they generally have to try and make a come back during the second half of the game. Even more difficult, it the mission have variable number of rounds making it hard to judge just how much you need to push. In progressive scoring, you may have go big, or go home making several high risk, high reward plays just to have a chance at victory. End of game scoring is still tough, but you can be a little more careful. Either case requires the player to know how much their team accomplish per round and be very efficient and precise with the limited amount of actions they have.

That's some seriously good advice, cheers mate.

In vanilla KT, Deathwatch are pretty terrific. They can even win well in Arena, but they don't get a lot of points so if tournaments are point pased (PODs) rather than just win/loss/tie based they struggle.

Grey Knights do very well in the 125 point games that are becoming more common because they can afford the terminator which gives them 2 psychic attacks per turn. That is just seriously nasty. Sure they are 1 wound models, but they have great armour, can insta-kill one close model a turn (two if you have the termie which isn't practical in a 100 point game). Keep in mind they do better as a close combat force. Think 3 dual falchions, 1 NDH and 1 incinerator or psilencer. Obviously you would want a roster so you could cherry pick based on the mission and opponent, but they are pretty solid in vanilla.

Grey Knights don't need a terminator to use two powers, it's their chapter tactic equivalent.

A mortal wound isn't exactly insta-kill either...

What I've learned is that you have to accept that as a small team you will be much more at the whims of the dice.As you are rolling far fewer you are likely to see much more variation from the statistical average.

This can ruin you if you roll low on a few to hit rolls, or get a couple of 2's on armour saves and loose 2/5ths of your army at one fell swoop.

Mostly I find winning with Grey Knights is about mitigating this chance as much as possible. The suggested team above helps - falcions for extra attacks are the best against most opponents. As does, for the most part, keeping the knights in two places, three at most (avoiding the risk of you loosing any chance of securing a 3pt objective or making an important kill due to one model being taken out).

Obviously command point re-rolls are one of the easiest ways to mitigate against chance, so it is rare I will ever use a command point on anything else, a veteran move being an occasional exception.

So sorry for the very late reply but my wife just opened a small restaurant and RL priorities came flooding in. :(

Are you asking about missions that are scored at the end of the game or missions that are scored on each turn?

Both! ^_^

I believe in general, the strategy is to kill as much as possible as fast as possible taking a little risk to your team as needed. Which I know is much easier said than done.

Make use of multi-attack weapons split firing where you can to put as much hurt as possible early game. Follow this up with making objective holders suffer especially if the game doesn't allow Shaken units to hold objectives. By mid-ish to late game, if things are going well, the opposing team should be looking to make break tests. You should be able to also be able to dominate objectives by late game if you can eliminate or shake enough of the opposing team.

As Scott mentioned, progressive scoring for 5-6 unit teams is really tough since they generally have to try and make a come back during the second half of the game. Even more difficult, it the mission have variable number of rounds making it hard to judge just how much you need to push. In progressive scoring, you may have go big, or go home making several high risk, high reward plays just to have a chance at victory. End of game scoring is still tough, but you can be a little more careful. Either case requires the player to know how much their team accomplish per round and be very efficient and precise with the limited amount of actions they have.

Good, detailed tips! So multi-attack weapons and action management are helpful. Also: Kill, kill, kill. Okay note. Thanks Saturmorn!

Grey Knights do very well in the 125 point games that are becoming more common because they can afford the terminator which gives them 2 psychic attacks per turn. That is just seriously nasty. Sure they are 1 wound models, but they have great armour, can insta-kill one close model a turn (two if you have the termie which isn't practical in a 100 point game). Keep in mind they do better as a close combat force. Think 3 dual falchions, 1 NDH and 1 incinerator or psilencer. Obviously you would want a roster so you could cherry pick based on the mission and opponent, but they are pretty solid in vanilla.

How about GK in 100-point matches? Terrible?

What I've learned is that you have to accept that as a small team you will be much more at the whims of the dice.As you are rolling far fewer you are likely to see much more variation from the statistical average.

Sadly true. :(

Mostly I find winning with Grey Knights is about mitigating this chance as much as possible. The suggested team above helps - falcions for extra attacks are the best against most opponents. As does, for the most part, keeping the knights in two places, three at most (avoiding the risk of you loosing any chance of securing a 3pt objective or making an important kill due to one model being taken out).

Same sentiment here the first time I saw their weapon chart.

Obviously command point re-rolls are one of the easiest ways to mitigate against chance, so it is rare I will ever use a command point on anything else, a veteran move being an occasional exception.

An eye-opening tip. Thanks DarK_EtheR!