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I don't know if this is the right forum for this topic, but i didn't seem to find the "correct" one, so i decided tot try here, sorry if it's the wrong one, i'm new.
Ok so. I have been more of a forum lurker/fluff reader of the 40k verse for the past few years, and i've decided tot try the jump to the tabletop. The problem is, i have no idea which army to pick and i wanted to ask some help.

Fluff wise, i was divided between Salamanders and Blood Angels. But i have a problem with them.
After reading in general about Space marines (gamewise) around, i feel kinda... ashamed at playing them. No just becuase of the OPness.
And i dont know if they fit the playstile i was looking for.

Playistile, i was looking for an army that was sturdy, resiliant. One with models that can take quite some pain before going down. With some big dudes.

I DONT CARE ABOUT THE META RIGHT NOW. I'm at the very beginning, that stuff can wait later.

Death Guard or Nurgle Daemons, sound on-point.

Real easy to paint, too. They're both 99% washes.

Pick models you like. Rules change over the years, but what's not going to change is that you're going to spend an awful long time building and painting them...

Welcome to DakkaDakka!

Where are you getting the shame for playing SM? There's nothing wrong (and a lot that's right) about playing SM. They're an interesting faction with an incredibly large toolchest. They can be impactful in every part of the game - even in the same well-rounded list. They're a joy to play, and a joy to play against.

The playstyle of "Sturdy, reseiliant" and "take quite some pain before going down" kinda says Necrons. But, like most other facets of the game, Marines can do that too (just not as well as Necrons).

Necrons don't do the 'big dudes' well, but neither to stock Marines. Custodes certainly do that well, as uber-elite units. So do Knights. But in those cases, you're not really getting a taste of what much of 40k is about - I wouldn't suggest going with them.

Have you considered CSM? They're Marines, but have fallen to Chaos. They have much of the versatility of their Loyalist cousins, but also have access to "big dudes" - Demon Princes and such. I'd only suggest this route if you get into the whole Cthuluesque horror shows and faustian corruption angles, though, because if you love NobleBright or BrightAndShiny, you're not going to enjoy them.

If you like CSM, but want more "take quite some pain before going down" and/or "big dudes", consider DeathGuard. They're CSM devoted to Nurgle - which makes them *much* harder to take down (of course, not as good at other things). And you get demons too (for the "big dudes").

If you like what I've written about CSM except you hate the asethetic and want BrightAndShiny, you could do an offshoot of Iron Warriors. Chaos Marines (you could even use DeathGuard rules, if you love converting and want that angle), but could paint them as Bright&Shiny and it'd be very fitting.

Of course, all that assumes you want super-marine "sturdy-resiliant" and "big dudes". Marines are already super-human "sturdy-resiliant" and "big dudes". It depends on how over-the-top you want to be.

As for chapters, there's a lot to choose from, and you can always homebrew. Mine are Wings of Dawn, which descend from UltraMarines (and use their rules). This lets you get really creative with your chapter, so it comes down to if you want to build your army to represent an existing force or invent a force.

As for specific preexisting chapters:
Salamanders have some fluff about durability, but more about expert craftsmanship. Their gear is slightly better (not always shown by rules), but only slightly. They're really into fire (meltas and flamers).
Blood Angels are about being Angels of Fury. They hit faster and harder. They get in and hit hard. They're more about Assault Marines and related units than other Chapters (but still use lots of Tacs and Devs, and other support, like all Loyalist chapters). They aren't considered any more *durable* than other chapters.

For durability, Iron Hands is the most fluffy one. Big into cybernetics, they're much more likely to amputate and graft prosthesis (superadvanced space robot prostheses, so cyborg, not cripple). This makes them slightly more durable than other chapters (at times - they haven't always had chapter-specific rules). If you haven't seen them, you might want to consider them.

From the whole of your post, I think you want to be a Sally player. They're awesome. They're codex-compliant. They're a lot of fun. They can look amazing. They can do anything. They are a good choice.

As for meta, it's good you're not chasing it. It'll change before you've got 2000 points fully painted. Some notes so you're not entirely unaware:
-SM is the second-most-frequently-top-tier faction (after CWE)
-Iron Hands is currently thought to be the top Marine chapter
-Some players are concerned that new players who build armies unconcerned with the meta will get frustrated when they start playing tournaments with said army. I disagree, but figure it should be stated. IMO, if you're into tournaments, you know that before getting into the hobby. And most "bad" armies do just fine until you get to the upper tiers of tournies anyways. If you go that route, even if you picked the "right" army when you started, it's probably not the "right" army when you play tournies. And, assuming you have the "right" army, you then need the "right" units. So don't worry about it - if you did worry about it, there's nothing you could do anyways.

Crispy78 wrote:
Pick models you like. Rules change over the years, but what's not going to change is that you're going to spend an awful long time building and painting them...

This is very, very true, an army is a big investment in both time and money and if you don't like the models you're going to have a hard time sticking with painting them. To compount that if you're at all competitive you're going to end up owning a lot more than you can actually field at any one time, and the average serious tournament player probably owns two or three armies so they're less likely to be stuck with an army that either isn't good this edition or hasn't had a new codex in a while. Which brings up another point...

GW has been at this for decades and they've literally never had a tight rule set with good inter- and intra-faction balance. I'm not going to get into specifics because this isn't the place for it, but it does take a certain mind-set to not get very frustrated with this game. Either you have to be on-board with pre-game negotiations to get a scenario and board set-up that is fun for both parties or you have to find [censored] about the game balance more entertaining than actually playing the game.

They are getting better though, GW put mechanisms in place to address broken interactions and incrementally tap point costs up or down based on what is showing up in competitive events and that's a huge step forward from leaving things broken for however long it took to release a new Codex/Edition. It's hard to overstate how significant that is.

I'm not trying to disuade you from getting into the game, but I do feel like you should know what you're getting yourself into.

Sturdy, resilient, and tough to bring down... maybe with some big stuff mixed in?

Custodes usually has good armor saves, good invulnerable saves, and some really tough nuts. They're not going to field many models, but the ones they do are really sturdy. Also gets you a foothold into the Imperium, where you can draw on some of the best units/factions to expand into if you want to start mixing and matching forces.

Death Guard. They're Space Marines with quite a few options removed, but get a Disgustingly Resilient rule which adds a lot of durability to their guys. They also have unique sculpts and some pretty interesting vehicles that again have the ability to shake off damage. You'll probably field more than a Custodes army with Death Guard, but you won't be absolutely flooding the table with models. Death Guard will give you an entry into Chaos, however, instead of the Imperium.

Knights. This guys actually hit all of your requests, but if you feel ashamed for playing Space Marines... you'll feel downright dirty for playing Knights. But, to their credit, they typically have standard Space Marine saves (3+ armor, usually 5+ invulnerable), which makes them fairly sturdy. They have 24-28 wounds, which makes them able to take quite a beating before going down... and even have strategies to assist them fight unscathed even though they're on their last leg. They are a part of the Imperium, so you'll have a gateway into the larger faction there... but there is a lot of split feelings on playing full knight lists. They'll only bring a handful of models, but can really warp the game into unplayable against certain matchups, and get even worse when you abuse other aspects of the game (CP generation from allies, in particular).

Eldar wraith contruct army.


I seen an army amde of up 100% wraith contructs, look sooooooooooooo awesome.

Not that great in game though!

go with death guard, if you where a bit into Marines at first go with your gut, death guard are "durable marines"

No one mentions Iron Hands? they are very resilient. Also eldar, with negative mods to being hit they are very resilient. They also are getting new rules.

Thanks for the inputs guys, i'll take a look at the army you suggested.

 Excommunicatus wrote:
Death Guard or Nurgle Daemons, sound on-point.

Real easy to paint, too. They're both 99% washes.

This...

DG sounds right up your alley. big dudes, chuck in some daemons, im considering them for my next army.

Cheap too, 'cause of all the starter sets.

Iron hands. You want Iron hands.

I actually think death guard are quite a good army also.

Maybe not the top of the meta tournament auto win, but for general gaming they are decent.

5+ disgustingly resilient means on most of your units you are ignoring 33% of all damage, including mortal wounds.

Plague weapons are re rolling to wound, the blight drones are pretty decent United and the plague burst crawlers give you some nice shooty in the backfield.

Spam pox walkers and give them the pyskic power that gives them +1 strength (and toughness???) and the other that gives them -1 to hit and you got a nasty horde.

I'll suggest the unpopular option - Tau.

Tau are sturdy and have a number of big dudes who have some insane resilience due to shield drones, good saves etc. They also have some surprisingly quick moving and flexible units. Assault is weak in 40k right now but these guys gunline excellently with other units also able to support.

Best of all, Tau are one of those armies who are surprisingly difficult to wipe off the board - usually Tau lose due to objectives.

Go with your heart.

You spent a lot of time and money on the hobby, so pick something that makes you happy. The models and the game are just one aspect. The flavor and the lot are another. If Salamanders and Blood Angels are what sparks your interest, harness that and run with it.

Codex marines are classically somewhere in the middle of the pack for power. You can build them as you describe, by choosing the right units to form the core of your army. Of course, marines are so flexible with such a large units to choose from, I could say that regardless of what you said you wanted from your army. One thing to remember when people are talking about power levels and the meta: These conversations take place referencing the top end of competitive play. Down at the friendly game store level, the game is a lot more even and forgiving.

Of the two, Salamanders are going to be more sturdy and resilient. BA are more fast and hard hitting in close combat. Salies get a nice rule to help make them tougher. Ignoring that point of AP helps a lot vs small arms that might chew through their troops. For some big units, dreadnoughts fit the bill. Ironclads are T8, Venerables have rules to make them tougher, and the Forge World ones are just mean. A squad of TH/SS terminators is very fluffy, and should be hard to shift.

In theory Salamanders should be getting a supplement shortly. Given the theme of their chapter, I suspect they might get some tricks to help them align with your wishes.

Pancakey wrote:
Iron hands. You want Iron hands.

I don’t suggest listening to him. GW lately has been doing well on listening to the community and iron hands will get nerfed, hopefully to oblivion. You can help this process! Make a few different emails, email GW saying how broken iron hands dread characters and strats are losing as different people and soon even 1,000 individuals can seem like 50,000.

it should always go:

miniatures->playstyle->rules.

I'll recommend Salamanders as they have a significant amount of uniqueness amongst the Legions and the FW stuff you can add(upgrades & units) looks killer. (full disclosure I'm a die hard 18th collector/player)

Eldar are another good choice as they have variety of playstyles that all are pretty effective.

Obviously I'm biased but I'd say go for any of the best looking plastic eldar kits. The wraith units all look good, dire avengers, wave serpents give you the toughness, if you take a wraithknight no one will accuse you of power gaming either.
You get some shooty stuff, some close combat stuff, psychic stuff so you get to play in all phases of the game.
Otherwise I'd go for thousand sons and deathguard soup for the models and you don't get much bigger than mortarian and Magnus.

Eldar- Wave serpents, Wraith guard, Wraith Lords/Knight.
Astra Militarum- Tanks, bullgryn
Space Marine- Terminator, Full dreadnaught army
CSM-Nurgle...

Most armies have some tough playability, Just note it's going to hurt as you lose models and not be so easy to play.

Pain4Pleasure wrote:

Pancakey wrote:
Iron hands. You want Iron hands.

I don’t suggest listening to him. GW lately has been doing well on listening to the community and iron hands will get nerfed, hopefully to oblivion. You can help this process! Make a few different emails, email GW saying how broken iron hands dread characters and strats are losing as different people and soon even 1,000 individuals can seem like 50,000.

This assumes GW made an “oopsie” with the rules writing.

Pancakey wrote:

Pain4Pleasure wrote:

Pancakey wrote:
Iron hands. You want Iron hands.

I don’t suggest listening to him. GW lately has been doing well on listening to the community and iron hands will get nerfed, hopefully to oblivion. You can help this process! Make a few different emails, email GW saying how broken iron hands dread characters and strats are losing as different people and soon even 1,000 individuals can seem like 50,000.

This assumes GW made an “oopsie” with the rules writing.

That isn't exactly an unsafe assumption.

The Newman wrote:

Pancakey wrote:

Pain4Pleasure wrote:

Pancakey wrote:
Iron hands. You want Iron hands.

I don’t suggest listening to him. GW lately has been doing well on listening to the community and iron hands will get nerfed, hopefully to oblivion. You can help this process! Make a few different emails, email GW saying how broken iron hands dread characters and strats are losing as different people and soon even 1,000 individuals can seem like 50,000.

This assumes GW made an “oopsie” with the rules writing.

That isn't exactly an unsafe assumption.

Comedy gold!

Figure out what type of play style you like, and what models you like. Then pick a faction.

SM gives a lot of flexibility, and they will almost always be the first faction to get updated in new editions since they are the poster child of 40k.

Death Guard has been mentioned a lot, which does fit the traits you mentioned in you first post. They are going to be far different from BA and Sal's in both visual appearance and play style.

I'd stay away from horde armies (Orks, Nids) to start off with if you are looking for tough units.