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So,

In the Cain books, he (or Vail) talks about the difference between Lord Commissars and Cain, or at least their difference as to the point of how they handle things differently. Lord Commissars are more....battle lust and Yarrick style, and Cain is more tactical and thoughtful.

Is Lord Commissar a title given out to really distinguished ones, or is it a different type of commissar?

Is there a lore explanation in any of the books as to how a Lord Commissar is made/awarded?

A plain commissar is an 'advisor' to a regular Guard officer. A lord commissar has the experience to effectively command armies in his own right rather than serving as an adjunct to the regular IG command structure.

Any commissar can take command temporarily, of course, if the officer he's attached to is incapacitated or killed, but it's only temporary until said officer can be replaced. A commissar who takes command permanently is a lord commissar by definition.

Not so sure its about command of armies, more that theyre more experienced Commissars that have been promoted to set them above the rest.

Probably also those attached to higher ranking Guard officers, like Generals.

So in Cain, he talks about how he's a political officer, there to enforce the will of the superiors. But he also talks about how he is not subordinate to those superiors at times, and is allowed to "take control" of certain situations. That denotes he falls outside of the basic rank structure.

That makes me thing the "Lord" commissar is just a....leader of commissars?

Essentially, yes. It's a mark of seniority, and primarily relevant when (as happens a few times in the series, Caine being Caine) it's another commissar whose behaviour is under commissarial scrutiny.

GUARDSMAN: "My Lord, how does a Commissar become a Lord Commissar?"

COMMISSAR: "When he doesn't have to shoot Guardsmen for things to get done."

GUARDSMAN: "Oh, so they don't shoot nobody in the head, then?"

COMMISSAR: "Not necessarily."

GUARDSMAN: "Oh. Who do they shoot, then?"

COMMISSAR: *Swallows and looks over his shoulder nervously* "Well... you should just... not worry about these things..."

bigger epaulets, I'm guessing.

Access to better weapons for one, a better refractor shield, and more ability to take damage.

I would say a "Lord" Commissar would be one that is comfortable enough to exercise true command when he is tired of hearing his orders in a different voice: <blam!> middle-man removed.

I'd say the Lord Commissar is an experienced Senior Commissar, that is experienced enough to lead the men into battle and effectively be able to replace a senior officer. He would likely spend more time behind the lines with the staff, do more office work and less dirty fieldwork too, as regular commissars report d to him.

So, Lord Commissar would most likely watch over the senior officers, while regular commissars watch over the Junior Officers, NCOs, and Enlisted men, along with Psykers, Abhumans, etc.... I doubt a regular, freshly graduated Commissar can just *BLAM!* a Major or a Colonel when they fail to act in their line of duty, unless absolutely necessary. Lord Commissar would do exactly that, and then take over the command of the company, regiment...

Or a Lord who has also been born/bought himself a political officership - and so his word not only carries the weight of the Munitorium but also his family's connections (and thus more highly placed and with more influence over minor officers).

Probably better equipped, trained and experienced with duelling too.

But that's just it. In books, regular commissars have threated summary execution to planetary leaders, Senior officers, and even heads of state.

Hell, in the first book ever Cain threatens to kill both the senior commanding officers (Col and Maj) of the Valhallen unit if they can't work together. And he's fresh out of the Schola.

I have to believe a Lord Commissar is more "advisory" than "blam". Every book that has one, he's attached to a General's staff, or even a retinue of a Inquisitor.

 Tastyfish wrote:
Or a Lord who has also been born/bought himself a political officership - and so his word not only carries the weight of the Munitorium but also his family's connections (and thus more highly placed and with more influence over minor officers).

Probably better equipped, trained and experienced with duelling too.

That would be pretty rare. Commissars tend to be drawn from the Schola Progenium, the Ecclesiarchy's finishing school for the children of martyrs. Presumably because of their greater loyalty to the Imperial Creed over mere Imperial Citizens.

Nurglitch wrote:

 Tastyfish wrote:
Or a Lord who has also been born/bought himself a political officership - and so his word not only carries the weight of the Munitorium but also his family's connections (and thus more highly placed and with more influence over minor officers).

Probably better equipped, trained and experienced with duelling too.

That would be pretty rare. Commissars tend to be drawn from the Schola Progenium, the Ecclesiarchy's finishing school for the children of martyrs. Presumably because of their greater loyalty to the Imperial Creed over mere Imperial Citizens.

Not their finishing school. So many people seem not to know that the Schola Progenium is the prep school. Commissars-to-be go to the Schola Prefectus after their time in the Schola Progenium.

I've always thought of it simply as a higher rank. More seniority, more experienced, more responsibilities, more clout (both political and battlefield) etc. Like, a Lord Commissar is to a regular Commissar what a General is to a Colonel. I imagine they operate more at the Divisional and Army level, rather than the Regimental and Battalion level of regular Commissars. They oversee Generals and staff officers and the other Commissars in the rung(s) below them, etc... again rather than the line officers of regular Commissars.

There is no difference, just like inquisitor vs lord inquisitor. It's just about the degree of respect you have earned frommyour peers.

Well that, and a flashier hat, obviously.

As I understand it, Lord Comissar isn't a formal rank, but more a matter of respect and veterancy. a lord comissar is one whose seen an aweful lot, proven himself in command situations, clearly can command troops if nesscary etc. whereas a regular comissar might be, comparitivly, wet behind the ears.

Ciaphias Cain by the end of his career, would proably count as a Lord Comissair, for example.

Cain is most definitely a "lord" Commissar in most of the books. Even in the first one released he was basically fleeing from service in the main generals of the sector control. He is not known for being a hero of the imperium for nothing.

its down to experience, Lord commissar>commissar, Lord inquisitor>inquisitor>interrogator.

 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Hell, in the first book ever Cain threatens to kill both the senior commanding officers (Col and Maj) of the Valhallen unit if they can't work together. And he's fresh out of the Schola.

Um, no. In his first book, Cain is already HERO OF THE IMPERIUM, having served in at least three regiments before, and having both commanding officers in awe of his exploits (which is why they hope he will fix the whole mess). He is 'fresh' is his adjutant commissar short stories and in beginning of duties with 12th artillery.

That said, Lord Commissar seems to be the exact same thing as Lord Inquisitor - that is, totally nothing. It's just a honorific for the most senior one present, given weight because of custom, not because it's some sort of codified rank or anything. If they have better gear, it's because they collected it in long service, not because there is some sort of shelf for Lords in the local munitorum store.

Lord Commissar is absolutely a formal rank. It’s who picks other people to be commissars. Lords Commissar assign specific commissars to given postings, discipline or commend commissars, they are in charge of courts martial and large-scale security investigations inside the Guard and Navy, they clear people to be promoted to the general staff.

No, Cain isn’t a Lord Commissar, he’s not the boss of other commissars. He’s a hero of the Imperium that doesn’t make him a manager.

pelicaniforce wrote:
Lord Commissar is absolutely a formal rank. It’s who picks other people to be commissars. Lords Commissar assign specific commissars to given postings, discipline or commend commissars, they are in charge of courts martial and large-scale security investigations inside the Guard and Navy, they clear people to be promoted to the general staff.

Except in Cain stories we see actual life of a commissar, and not only no lords pick people to be commissars (schola progenum does), it's the departamento munitorum who decides where these candidates go from there (further reinforced by Cain himself, who filed motions to be reassigned, twice, to departamento munitorum clerk, and even mentions once he buttered said clerk up to get post he wanted, pretty much confirming it was that clerk's decision, and not some fictional lord)...

 Irbis wrote:

pelicaniforce wrote:
Lord Commissar is absolutely a formal rank. It’s who picks other people to be commissars. Lords Commissar assign specific commissars to given postings, discipline or commend commissars, they are in charge of courts martial and large-scale security investigations inside the Guard and Navy, they clear people to be promoted to the general staff.

Except in Cain stories we see actual life of a commissar, and not only no lords pick people to be commissars (schola progenum does), it's the departamento munitorum who decides where these candidates go from there (further reinforced by Cain himself, who filed motions to be reassigned, twice, to departamento munitorum clerk, and even mentions once he buttered said clerk up to get post he wanted, pretty much confirming it was that clerk's decision, and not some fictional lord)...

Cain it should also be noted worked as the Comissarial adjuctant to the Lord General's office. chances are part of his duties where managing and cordianting the various comissars operating within the theatre

I always thought it was a class of ranking that allowed the commisar to take direct command of troops, as others have said.

My head cannon has "Colonel-Commissar" Gaunt as a kind of Lord Commisar

Fisheyes wrote:
I always thought it was a class of ranking that allowed the commisar to take direct command of troops, as others have said.

My head cannon has "Colonel-Commissar" Gaunt as a kind of Lord Commisar

It isn't.
Colonel Commissar is something Abnett made up to tell the story he wanted. It has no relevance to the wider 40k universe.

Voss wrote:

Fisheyes wrote:
I always thought it was a class of ranking that allowed the commisar to take direct command of troops, as others have said.

My head cannon has "Colonel-Commissar" Gaunt as a kind of Lord Commisar

It isn't.
Colonel Commissar is something Abnett made up to tell the story he wanted. It has no relevance to the wider 40k universe.

indeed. a Colonel-Commissar defeats the POINT of a Commissar. who is intended to provide a oversight of the unit seperate from that of the command structure

40K has to amalgamate a lot of the rank structure for tabletop use.
So you had hero and lord level Commissars. What rank they actually had probably depends on the army and schola they came from. It might vary a lot. Once someone earns an especially fancy hat they become a Lord Commissar. At which actual rank thisd happsns, who can say, and may not be standard in the Imperium either.

In the Ghosts novels we see a bit f the organizational structure of the commissariat, they seem to have their own vertical structure alongside the hierarchy of the Guard, with their own essentially MP units and so on and various levels of commissar with command over commissars lower on the rungs. I believe that in this structure a lord commissar would be the ones in charge of large investigations at the administrative level as well as helping to delegate commissariat posting and organization within their theatre of operation?

 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Is Lord Commissar a title given out to really distinguished ones, or is it a different type of commissar?

It's really more a matter of seniority.