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Hi

I haven't played 40k in about 10 to 15 years and I wanted to get back into it. This is what I have at the moment, I was wondering if this was even viable in 8th Ed or if it needed minor tweaks or even complete overhaul. Be kind I'm still getting to used to the new rules set.

Thanks

++ Patrol Detachment (Imperium - Space Marines) [72 PL, 1,458pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

**Chapter Selection**: Master Artisans, Raven Guard Successor, Stealthy

+ HQ +

Chaplain in Terminator Armor [5 PL, 90pts]: 4. Mantra of Strength, Litany of Hate

+ Troops +

Scout Squad [4 PL, 88pts]: 5x Camo cloak
. Scout Sergeant: Combat knife, Sniper rifle
. Scout w/Heavy Weapon: Heavy bolter
. 3x Scout w/Sniper Rifle: 3x Sniper rifle

Scout Squad [7 PL, 178pts]: 10x Camo cloak
. Scout Sergeant: Combat knife, Sniper rifle
. Scout w/Heavy Weapon: Missile launcher
. 8x Scout w/Sniper Rifle: 8x Sniper rifle

Tactical Squad [7 PL, 134pts]
. 8x Space Marine
. Space Marine Sergeant
. . Boltgun/Bolt pistol
. Space Marine w/Special Weapon: Meltagun

+ Elites +

Terminator Assault Squad [9 PL, 205pts]: Teleport Homer
. Terminator Sergeant
. . Thunder Hammer & Storm Shield: Storm shield, Thunder hammer
. 4x Terminator w/THSS: 4x Storm shield, 4x Thunder hammer

+ Fast Attack +

Assault Squad [9 PL, 162pts]: Jump Pack
. 7x Space Marine
. Space Marine Sergeant: Bolt pistol/Chainsword
. Space Marine w/Special Weapon: Flamer
. Space Marine w/Special Weapon: Flamer

+ Heavy Support +

Land Raider [15 PL, 277pts]: Twin heavy bolter, 2x Twin lascannon

Predator [8 PL, 177pts]: Storm bolter, Twin lascannon, Two Lascannons

Predator [8 PL, 147pts]: Predator autocannon, Storm bolter, Two Heavy Bolters

++ Total: [72 PL, 1,458pts] ++

The list itself is not very good for competitive games (in friendly ones, play what you like), but the biggest issue here it's that you have a single patrol detachment. Which means 3 Command Points (CP), which is absolutely NOTHING. CPs are invaluable, hardly any competitive list has fewer than 10. And you just need a single extra HQ to get at least a battalion (8 CPs in total), since you already have 3 troops.

Ok apart from the detachments, as that seems like an easy fix, what units are savable, what should I get rid and what should I look to pick up.

I'm not going full competitive but I also want to win a few friendly games as well.

Scouts are better bare-naked, 55 points to take objectives and prevent deepstrikes. Don't waste points for upgrading them, if you want snipers, take Eliminators. And never take them in large squads, you only make it easier for them to fail morale. 2 5-men squads are much better than a 10-men one, unless you want to boost them with phychic powers or stratagems, and scouts are not worthy of that.

Tacticals are not worth their points, in the current meta. Intercessors are just better 99% of the times.

Terminators have limited usefulness over many of the other units marines can have. They can work, but they require support. They have 15 attacks at 4+, not very impressive for their cost. A chaplain can buff them, but he needs to be close to them (and can't fit in the land raider, there's no room for him), and litanies are randomic (3+).

Assault squads are pretty meh. They move 12", but are still as fragile as tacticals, and don't pack a punch in assault. Vanguard Veterans are just plain better for only 2 more points, if you want to go that route.

well the Tacticals with nothing on them are certainly iffy. Tacticals are decent with the new rules on shooting and also assaulting. They are a value buy, that allows for extravagances elsewhere. Having said that, in that list specifically, unless you are them better, id want the additional sniper rifles, personally

I don't like the meltagun on the tac squad at all. They start in your deploy zone and are only moderately mobile -- so armor is likely to simply not come TOO close to youwhile shooting at you with longer range stuff. A missle launcher, maybe a lascannon, would give them a nice longer punch, though I still would run them MSU style to save points (only 5)

The 10 man scout can be split in two, to get better board control and to be less quick to go down to soemthing like a gatling cannon's 40 s5 shots.

Question. What faction of SM are you planning?

n.b. Yes, competitive marine people, l know that sniper cloaks and tac marines are "suboptimally not perfect competitive" .. but they are what he has and they are not the worst models in the game either.

Originally it was just my own chapter, but ive used the Master Artisans.and Stealthy options in the book. Easy enough to put a las with the tac squad. I was thinking of adding a few things but don't want to spend money on lots of things that won't work.

Master artisans and stealthy are a very popular combo right now, and quite strong. If you ever were to buy a few centurions (assault is the most commonly used I think) you could use the land raider to run them up the field, a threat most armies have to honor -- and a fairly difficult machine to drop with many armies weapons profiles.
With master aritsans and stealthy you still ahve the option of becoming a sucessor chapter to a major chapter -- for example, giving you access to ravengaurd's or ironhands or white scars stratagems and special gear. That might be a later choice you make, but if you know you are likely to want a bunch of big tanks, then buying a techmarine isn't a bad deal, while if you want an all infantry force to zip forward, then buying some eliminators isn't a choice most people would call poor.

Also, you are only 1 5 man squad away from being able to break your marines out into six small squads, which leads someday to 2 battalions and more command points. Perhaps buying a few intercessors would let you also try your hand out at the primaris models and strats, without overcommitting to them.

Obviously with edition changes and new releases old stuff is not going to hold up the same. It’s the GW way to rotate the spotlight on what’s hot, and what’s not. What you have here can work, and is moderately balanced. Overall you have a good mix of firepower. You might be a little light on anti-horde. Assault marines and flamers don’t do that job as well as they used to. But against most normal/friendly play lists, you should do fine. Always going to have matchup issues, no mater how you build.

One thing to do is to look at the stratagems and see how you can work them into your army. Things like including a HB/ML on an infantry model for mortal wounds is one (that you nicely have)

Building detachments for command points is big in 8th. You are just one HQ away, so that shouldn’t be too hard. Also, look at the relics. You get one for free and can buy more. Select a warlord trait as well.

Another thing that rules the table is re-rolls. While taking the master artisan trait helps, for some units you would still prefer to be around a captain/Lt. Sticking a Lt. next to the snipers will help you fish for 6’s to wound for the MWs. And more hits is always good.

Your tacs are on foot with a short range gun. Honestly in this list, I’d just split one of the scout squads up and run 3 units of them; drop the tacs. Multiple small units is generally better anyway. If you do want to keep them, consider giving the sarge a c-melta to match. Full disclosure, melta is overpriced and mediocre these days, you are probably better off with plasma.

I’ve transitioned to using plasma pistols on my AMs over flamers. The 8” range when you have to DS 9” away is an issue. And you give up your chainsword, and they don’t have as many attacks as they need to start with. Power weapons have come down in price from prior editions, it’s worth handing them out IMHO.

One thing to know about 8th is that screening units is important. Tanks can’t just back up and shoot anymore; you need to keep units at arm's length. Us your snipers to screen your preds, and the AMs to try to keep the LR clean. Nothing sucks like haveing a 277 point tank miss a shooting phase because a grot got his hand on the bumper.

Hey,

So taking a slightly different approach to the above here, just my chip-in, in no way gospel.

Do you have anyone to play with yet? this will decide whether or not you have salvage here or not for the most part. If you're back for the casual games with mates over a few beers in someone's garage, then yeah you're probably alright. some minor tweaks here and there definitely wouldn't hurt, but for play with other new players in a casual environment i'd say you're looking okay. definitely not competitive, which can be the focus of many users here (not a bad thing in any way), but I sympathise with returning and new players who're often bombarded with "new unit X is a must have" …

For me personally; You seem a bit light on troops. though to be fair that's my first thought when examining most (even competitive) lists, 8th edition has not been kind to the rank and file.

A lot of your units would be considered somewhat obsolete, but fear not, away from tournaments the humble old marines can still hold their ground just fine. Shock Assault and Bolter Discipline were nice damage multipliers for space marines, though as expected, newer units benefit from them to a greater degree. Likewise, stratagems can be used to bolster units to enhance their performance; but to work those into a battle plan you're gonna want a few more command points.

I think If I were in your shoes I would consider picking the game back up at a slightly lower points bracket, maybe 1000/1250? The change may not seem significant but armies that have more competitive options will be able to abuse them to a higher degree in larger games.

At 1Kpts Ideally you'd want a battalion: Maybe something along the lines of a "Smash Captain" (Jump Pack, Storm Shield, Thunder Hammer) and Chaplain (for the +1 to hit chant thingie). I'd then throw in those 2 predators, as they definitely have a place at the table in casual games, your assault squad and maybe invest in a dreadnought of some description. this would allow you to castle up your tanks around a hypothetical dread and use the "wisdom of the ancients" stratagem on it, effectively giving a captains re-rolls for the turn to all of your heavy hitting fire support units. throw in 3 troops units and see where you're at, tweak upgrades as appropriate.

hope this helps, sorry for the long post
GamerGuy

This has been really helpful. I've just played my first game with a guy who has also come out of deep status, close game but we had fun. Definitely going to start making some small tweaks to the army, painting new figures is always fun.

If you can get a combat engineer marine -- the tech marine can use a faith and fury upgrade (which you can read about I believe online, before you buy the book) to be able to gift all the vehicles within 1 inch of him +1 to hit.
Its so broken it makes my eyeteeth hurt. But your predators would rarely, if ever, miss, becoming the dreaded fire profile (if a captain were near) of reroll 1's, hit on 2's, and then have several master artisan rerolls available for whatever else.

That's the stuff of nightmare lascannon barrages, and solid assault cannon shooting. Also, the techmarine can repair those guys as they become damaged, potentially ameliorating a problem your list has (tanks don't come with invuln shields in this edition, and marine predator armor isn't the highest toughness armor, either) Even without a captain, they are pretty solid at shooting then.

I know, its the cheese of the hour, but that tech marine is a good choice to move you towards a battalion with a second officer -- while not breaking the points budget (he costs only 45, by 15 the cheapest commander) There are few half mech / half troop marine armies who will suffer for having one of them, at any point level, really. Even in casual games, running the landraider up the board is more viable if the marine engineer guy runs advances after it to heal the occasional damage it takes.

If you were planning on getting back into 40k and getting some practice games in with what you've currently got listed, try taking one marine out of both the assault squad and tactical squad, paint a stripe on their helmets and call them lieutenants. This will give you enough HQ's to turn your collection into a battalion and a spearhead and change you from 3cp to 9cp. You could probably still squeeze this in to 1500 points without changing much else (maybe drop models from scouts/tacticals until it fits).

Master artisans/stealthy is a decent pick, if these are painted in your own custom colour scheme it might be worth trying out different successor/parent chapters to find what suits you best - you have a lot of heavy weapons so you might find iron hands or imperial fists slightly better.

So I've made a few adjustments, brought in a techmarine as warlord to sit at the back with the predators. Dropped the landraider for a dreadnought and got a smash captain to fly around with the assault marines. I also threw an apothecary in as I had spare points and if I could get him with the terminators to hopefully keep them alive a bit longer but I dunno. What do you think?

++ Spearhead Detachment +1CP (Imperium - Space Marines) [29 PL, -1CP, 561pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +


**Chapter Selection**: Master Artisans, Raven Guard Successor, Stealthy

+ HQ +

Techmarine [4 PL, -1CP, 45pts]: Boltgun, Master of the Machine, Servo-arm, Strategem: Master of the Forge, Warlord

+ Heavy Support +

Contemptor Mortis Dreadnought [9 PL, 180pts]: Cyclone missile launcher
. Two twin autocannons: 2x Twin autocannon

Predator [8 PL, 153pts]: Hunter-killer missile, Predator autocannon, Storm bolter, Two Heavy Bolters

Predator [8 PL, 183pts]: Hunter-killer missile, Storm bolter, Twin lascannon, Two Lascannons

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Space Marines) [45 PL, 3CP, 934pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

**Chapter Selection**: Master Artisans, Raven Guard Successor, Stealthy

Battle-forged CP [3CP]

+ HQ +

Captain [6 PL, 143pts]: Jump Pack, Raven's Fury, Storm shield, Thunder hammer

Chaplain in Terminator Armor [5 PL, 90pts]: 6. Canticle of Hate, Litany of Hate

+ Troops +

Scout Squad [4 PL, 88pts]: 5x Camo cloak
. Scout Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Sniper rifle
. Scout w/Heavy Weapon: Heavy bolter
. 3x Scout w/Sniper Rifle: 3x Sniper rifle

Scout Squad [4 PL, 98pts]: 5x Camo cloak
. Scout Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Sniper rifle
. Scout w/Heavy Weapon: Missile launcher
. 3x Scout w/Sniper Rifle: 3x Sniper rifle

Scout Squad [4 PL, 80pts]: 5x Camo cloak
. Scout Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Sniper rifle
. 4x Scout w/Sniper Rifle: 4x Sniper rifle

+ Elites +

Primaris Apothecary [3 PL, 60pts]

Terminator Assault Squad [9 PL, 205pts]: Teleport Homer
. Terminator Sergeant
. . Thunder Hammer & Storm Shield: Storm shield, Thunder hammer
. 4x Terminator w/THSS: 4x Storm shield, 4x Thunder hammer

+ Fast Attack +

Assault Squad [5 PL, 85pts]: Jump Pack
. 4x Space Marine
. Space Marine Sergeant: Bolt pistol/Chainsword, Combat shield, Power fist

Assault Squad [5 PL, 85pts]: Jump Pack
. 4x Space Marine
. Space Marine Sergeant: Bolt pistol/Chainsword, Combat shield, Power fist

++ Total: [74 PL, 2CP, 1,495pts] ++

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