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So living in the dreaded 'Rest of the World' I see there is interest in modeling, but obviously no easy way to get models, paints, etc.

But I wonder if 3D printing can/will change this. I'm doing a Patreon right now for a dude who's making Arbites-like models, a Kickstarter for Arbites terrain and bought a bunch of STLs from Heroforge to make um... Arbites (I can stop any time, really).

So is anyone else paying good hard money for 3d printing files?

I did for the Pillarstodes and paid a fellow Dakkanaught to print them for me.

 BaconCatBug wrote:
I did for the Pillarstodes

Money well spent.

I've bought tons of STLs and printed them - I own 3 printers. I've also designed some of my own stuff, but I'm not really good with organic designs - I'm not a very good 3D artist.

Almost all of them have been good experiences. The only one that wasn't, wasn't because of a technical issue - it was because the guy running the indiegogo had misrepresented the scale, and a good percentage of the models were simply too large to print at 100% - and scaling them down is very easy obviously, but then the prints (terrain) are no longer fit for purpose as they are not appropriately scaled. One of the churches was so big that at 100% of 28mm, it was a 341mm print - most FDM printers only have a bed of 200-250mm or so.

And even THEN, plenty of the models from that project still worked fine. So it wasn't a total loss, I just couldn't print any of the truly large 1-piece buildings - they would be larger than 220 mm at 100% scale.

And of course if I ever do get the Chiron (a very large FDM printer), then I can print them. So it might be more accurate to say I can't print them at the correct scale currently.

I have printed very large things but the better vendors chop the models up for you (gambody).

Literally nothing I said was relevant to someone printing 28mm minis, but this was my experience as someone who has bought dozens, maybe a hundred, STLs.

I really hadn't ever thought about buying an .stl file or 3D printing until my tiny group of gamer buddies wanted to start Star Wars Legion.

People already have files to change the Snowtroopers on the Imperial gun emplacement to Stormtroopers. And I found a really well sculpted Darth Talon mini to use in a Star Wars based squad for Rogue Stars my buddy is going to print off for me

Probably not going to do much more with 3D printing than that though.

I've bought them, but they're custom models for my Titanomachina game. Just waiting on some 'fine detail plastic' prints from Shapeways now, in fact. There's a local guy I'd prefer to have print them out using this wonderful 'eco-tough' PLA filament printer, as he's an award-winning CNC machinist in his day job, but he's been unavailable.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
So living in the dreaded 'Rest of the World' I see there is interest in modeling, but obviously no easy way to get models, paints, etc.

But I wonder if 3D printing can/will change this. I'm doing a Patreon right now for a dude who's making Arbites-like models, a Kickstarter for Arbites terrain and bought a bunch of STLs from Heroforge to make um... Arbites (I can stop any time, really).

So is anyone else paying good hard money for 3d printing files?

Needs and option for "I can use a 3d Printer, but I wouldn't buy an STL"

I've 3d printed some star wars stuff, but I make any cad file I might use myself, and I wouldn't buy a cad file for it from somebody else. It's something that is fundamentally not hard to make, and doing the CAD myself will allow me to tailor it and the way it prints to the printer for overall better results.

Of course, I'd still sooner buy a plastic kit than 3d print things, I've consistently been disappointed with the quality of 3d printed stuff, mostly because a printer of sufficient quality to get acceptable detail is also just beyond my ability to acquire or buy time on.

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
Of course, I'd still sooner buy a plastic kit than 3d print things, I've consistently been disappointed with the quality of 3d printed stuff, mostly because a printer of sufficient quality to get acceptable detail is also just beyond my ability to acquire or buy time on.

Really? The Photon and Ender 3 are both in the sub-$300 price bracket at this point.

For minis you want an SLA printer, and the best bang for buck is the Elgoo Mars Pro.

 BaconCatBug wrote:
For minis you want an SLA printer, and the best bang for buck is the Elgoo Mars Pro.

Depends, really. For infantry models, yeah, definitely get a DLP printer like the Mars Pro or Photon (SLA uses an actual laser, while DLP printers like the Mars and Photon just have a UV lamp and an LCD screen). If you're printing tanks, dreadnoughts or even monsters? An FDM machine works just fine, and with fine tuning even does a great job with infantry.

I have a pair of DLP printers and a fairly well dialed in FDM printer, and I don't think I can agree that FDM is "good enough", honestly. I use my FDM for terrain but that's about it warhams wise. Even if I'm using high fill primer, you're either accepting visible layer lines, or you're doing a ton of sanding.

Obviously good enough is subjective, though.

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
I've 3d printed some star wars stuff, but I make any cad file I might use myself, and I wouldn't buy a cad file for it from somebody else. It's something that is fundamentally not hard to make, and doing the CAD myself will allow me to tailor it and the way it prints to the printer for overall better results.

Of course, I'd still sooner buy a plastic kit than 3d print things, I've consistently been disappointed with the quality of 3d printed stuff, mostly because a printer of sufficient quality to get acceptable detail is also just beyond my ability to acquire or buy time on.

I have dabbled in designing stuff in 3D CAD apps for many years, and I definitely would never, ever have described it as "fundamentally not hard". Obviously you can pick it up, I sure did, but it definitely has a learning curve, and, depending what software platform you go with, potentially an expensive buy-in. .

Also seconding the other posters who point out an excellent DLP printer can be had now for $250 on sale and less than $300 when not.

There's fairly well dailed in, and then there's well dialed in. From a couple of printing Discords I'm on, both printed in PLA and unprimed:

I'd have to see the surface closer before I could opine on those prints.

I'm pretty picky, I want plastic quality or very close to it. I don't think I can ever get that up-close perfection with FDM, although I totally and easily can with DLP.

 Ouze wrote:
I'd have to see the surface closer before I could opine on those prints.

I'm pretty picky, I want plastic quality or very close to it. I don't think I can ever get that up-close perfection with FDM, although I totally and easily can with DLP.

Yeah, that's definitely fair. I haven't gotten anywhere near that quality on my FDM prints (although I've got some parts for terrain and titans that are pretty great with a coat or two of filler). I'm usually happy with a slight bit of surface texture tho on vehicles, especially since after a bit of sanding and primer it goes way nicely.

 Ouze wrote:
I have a pair of DLP printers and a fairly well dialed in FDM printer, and I don't think I can agree that FDM is "good enough", honestly. I use my FDM for terrain but that's about it warhams wise. Even if I'm using high fill primer, you're either accepting visible layer lines, or you're doing a ton of sanding.

Obviously good enough is subjective, though.

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
I've 3d printed some star wars stuff, but I make any cad file I might use myself, and I wouldn't buy a cad file for it from somebody else. It's something that is fundamentally not hard to make, and doing the CAD myself will allow me to tailor it and the way it prints to the printer for overall better results.

Of course, I'd still sooner buy a plastic kit than 3d print things, I've consistently been disappointed with the quality of 3d printed stuff, mostly because a printer of sufficient quality to get acceptable detail is also just beyond my ability to acquire or buy time on.

I have dabbled in designing stuff in 3D CAD apps for many years, and I definitely would never, ever have described it as "fundamentally not hard". Obviously you can pick it up, I sure did, but it definitely has a learning curve, and, depending what software platform you go with, potentially an expensive buy-in. .

Also seconding the other posters who point out an excellent DLP printer can be had now for $250 on sale and less than $300 when not.

I feel like being passably proficient in CAD would be a prerequisite for using a 3D printer. Like every time someone needs me to print something, or I try to print something, the CAD file winds up needing changes a couple of times before whatever it is comes out adequately.

I would not consider myself a 3d printing enthusiast so I'm not really fully aquainted with hobby options. It's just something I use moderately often for non-hobby related purposes, and every once in a while I get the great idea to try to print a miniature [more often, parts for a miniature, I usually try to print things like gun carriage wheels and spare track links and the lines] with them. I can't afford to buy time for personal prints on the really nice ones at the rapid prototyping lab which probably could turn out acceptable miniatures, and I'm always disappointed with the results from other ones. There will be a day where I can print exactly what I want, but it is not today.


I guess the point still stands though. I wouldn't buy an STL, because I can do that myself.

What are you trying to print on? By the sounds of it you're trying to use industrial use printers, which are almost certainly NOT designed for what you want them to do.

Still not sure why you are stuck on the idea this is some insane, unobtainable investment available only to industry. The Photon costs around $270 and turns out prints like this:



I will say that unless you are sculpting them yourself, it's difficult to find sculpts for free that have the sharp details plastic does, but the ones I have bought do pretty well I think. That's also a sculptor problem, not a hardware limitatiion.

Since I got a printer I spend about €30 a month on Patreons and probably €50-100 on Kickstarters, and that's just terrain. I shudder to think what would become of me if I ever got a resin printer.

Having made a smooth transition from "buying models I never assemble and paint" into "buying stls via kickstarters I never print, assemble, and paint"; I've found at least the latter leaves me an uncluttered house.

 Ouze wrote:
Having made a smooth transition from "buying models I never assemble and paint" into "buying stls via kickstarters I never print, assemble, and paint"; I've found at least the latter leaves me an uncluttered house.

Only in that my printers only have so much space on the build plate.

I have just kinda jumped into the 3D world by dusting off my old CAD training and talking to my friend who does the printing and looking at the printer code (very similar to CNC machining code).

I have noticed a few "issues" with the 3D market at the moment and where my money would go:

- It is VERY hard to find the original artist that makes many of these "escaped" stl's that people try to sell. I have found a few of these folk with models I really like.

- This is much like the early age of music where "sampling" got original creators all angry, I am seeing increasingly little bits of STL models here and there put together into one good awesome model... where do you start?

- Some of these models are indistinguishable from the "inspired" art even if made from scratch... how is this any better than the recasting scene but using an "inspired" sculpt?

- Many times the actual creator is allowed to show their work but they have received a letter from similar intellectual property warning against sharing or sale.

A friend of mine plays Orks so a fine creator "GearGutz" gets supported on Patreon.
I find other means of obtaining STLs even of Thingverse for free leads to interesting moments.
I ensure any files I get for free keep all the relevant tracking information on them but you can still find yourself "banned" from groups when the "proxy" looks way too much like a "copy".

I would rather get back into creating my own content... that may kick in when I retire.

 Talizvar wrote:
*snip*

So, a few thoughts:

If you suspect a model may be a free model that's being sold by a third party, you can try a reverse image search. A lot of these guys aren't really clever enough to do a new render, so you'll be able to find the original fairly quickly, especially if you add "thingiverse" or "Cults3d" to your query.

Regarding sampling, most of the folks who make free models are quite happy when people remix their work. Note though that they're usually under a Creative Commons license, and derivatives must be under the same license or more restrictive, so selling said remixes or failing to credit the original author is usually a no-no. Remixing paid models from a patreon and sharing them is, of course, not allowed.

As for the difference between recasting and 3D printing, there's a whole philosophical and legal discussion to be had there, but largely boils down to that, while definitely inspired by and even copied from GW models, the 3D sculpts are created entirely by the person who sculpted it, and are basically fan art. As long as they're not selling those direct copies, it's legally fair game (although GW certainly isn't a fan of it, and sends out numerous DMCA letters regarding it) the same as DeviantArt accounts that draw unlicensed space marine art would be. For stuff that ISN'T a one-to-one copy (like, say, Geargutz' orcs), it's just as permissable as companies like Victoria or Anvil's models are, which, as Chapterhouse showed us, is "very." A lot of GW's DMCA letters are probably not actually legally enforceable, but like most of the cases pre-Chapterhouse folks don't really have the resources to fight them in court.

I literally cannot imagine the mindset - the level of stanning - necessary to worry about some companies profits so much you want to kibosh a forum talking about 3D models wholly designed by someone because they look a little too much like said corporations.

Laughing Man wrote:What are you trying to print on? By the sounds of it you're trying to use industrial use printers, which are almost certainly NOT designed for what you want them to do.

Good question. I don't know. I don't run the facility. I take stuff over there when something needs doing. Most of the time, they're not miniatures, they're things like small-scale airplane wings for wind tunnel tests.

As I said, I'm not a 3d printing enthusiast or hobbyist. I just use the things, and every once in a while. when they're not being used, I try to use them to print miniature things.

I have a little homing spider droid and some T1-B's that came out pretty well, and a bunch of objective markers, but some of the other stuff I tried to do didn't turn out so well, including a gun carriage for my lascannons [though if I were to do it again, I might break it down differently since I think the way I tried to print it was suboptimal because I didn't really have a solid conception of what the machines were capable of].


I believe ouze that 3d printing of adequate quality isn't that expensive.

I was just kind of surprised that people would buy CAD files. At least to me, the point of using the 3d printer for miniatures is to make something or change a model in a way that I want specifically that I can't buy it that way; like mounting lascannons on a split-trail gun carriage instead of a tripod or making lots of spare tracks for tank decoration. And like, if I'm making it in the first place because I want it my way, why would I buy someone else's CAD file for it instead of making it exactly the way I want it to be?

That's a great option if you have the capability, sure. I myself have very limited skill in CAD - so if I want any complex sculpts, I'm buying them or doing without. I am absolutely hopeless with trying to sculpt anything organic at all, for example.

Sculpting isn't the half of it, there's also making sure that a model as sufficient supports modeled onto it. I've been buying high detail plastic prints from ShapeWays recently and I believe they print a wax support armature as well as the model itself; you need to clean them with Simple Green before priming them. Some of my models have been designed with tab-in-slot modularity and because I didn't clean the slots of one piece it's now effectively a part of the model I can't remove.

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
I was just kind of surprised that people would buy CAD files. At least to me, the point of using the 3d printer for miniatures is to make something or change a model in a way that I want specifically that I can't buy it that way; like mounting lascannons on a split-trail gun carriage instead of a tripod or making lots of spare tracks for tank decoration. And like, if I'm making it in the first place because I want it my way, why would I buy someone else's CAD file for it instead of making it exactly the way I want it to be?

Well... lots of reasons, really. More or less the same amount of reasons why people don't sculpt their own miniatures exactly the way they want them to be instead of buying them, you know?

Most people don't know how to sculpt. Other people want stuff already done to then modify and hack as they want/like. Others like stuff and buy it. Of course, being able to print stuff at home is a great boon, instead of having to deal with the fickleness of international shipping, taxes and customs fees... you know, lots of reasons.

Personally, I've bought a fair share of STL files, and I also give money to multiple Patreons monthly, because I like the stuff they make and would like them to make more of it. The price point is also usually quite a bit lower than regular minis (and there's the same instant satisfaction as with pdf files, streaming movies and the like), so impulse buy is definitely a thing.

Joined a patreon for some modern military STL's, stayed for the author's other creations.

Unfortunately, I don't have a 3D printer of my own, and I'm sort of afraid to get one as my already cluttered house can't take the strain of what I'd start printing.

For those who do have one, what would you say your ratio of goofs/required reprints to good turn out is? Is it higher for resin or PLA or just dependant on one's skill for getting good results?

A little late to the game on this, but:

1. I buy very few stl files, as almost anything you want is free on Thingiverse. You can obviously get some great models if you are willing to spend a bit and I have picked up some great files for a fraction of the cost it would be if I were to buy it ready-made.

I started a few years back with an A8 clone - it did OK and took quite a bit to get dialed in, but I learned so much. Being FDM, it was not the greatest for minis, but larger stuff and terrain, it was great.

About a year and a half ago, I sold the A8 and got and Ender 3 pro - night and day - the Ender 3 is such a superior machine and prints so much better. I had a few threads on Dakka with some photos of the FDM prints and even the same model in FDM and resin. The FDM prints are certainly not as good as resin, but in a pinch, they will work.

About 9 months ago I got an Elegoo Mars - what an awesome machine and produces spectacular minis. I have literally been using it non-stop and probably have close to 500 print runs on it. You can pick one up now just under the $200 mark. Sure, the post processing is a bit, with the cleaning and all, but I will take it any day over FDM with all of the print issues and then removing the supports.

I will still use the Ender 3 for large stuff, but once I pick up the Elegoo Saturn towards the end of the year with its larger build plate, I just might not use the Ender in the foreseeable future.

Stormonu - I would say my fail rate is much higher on FDM, since there is just so much more that can go wrong, IMHO. Plus, resin printing is a fraction of the time, so a failure on resin is just a few hours, vs. all day on FDM.

I definitely hard a tougher learning curve in terms of learning where to place supports on resin prints when I started out, but to directly answer Stormonu's question, I pretty much never have to reprint models now. The ratio is about 95% successful prints with DLP (Anycubic Photon S).

Part of that is the apps you use to generate supports, like Chitubox, have gotten better over time, and part of it is experience. Most of it is experience. I can look at a model now and know how to orient it and where supports will be needed, and where they are not. So, you will have some failures in the beginning but you learn pretty quick.

I don't really ever have issues with supports on FDM but also, once I dialed the printer in, I changed nothing: I always use the exact same brand and color of filament, and just need to re-level the bed once in a while. Supports are more of a pain in the ass to remove on FDM for sure, but I don't have issues placing them, it's 100% generated by Cura and I don't really do anything to adjust them, other than sometimes blocking out where I don't want them generated in some very specific scenarios.

Obviously YMMV, My friend has a FDM printer she has endless adhesion problems with.