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Title says it all really.

We don't know yet to be honest, we need to see how they fair in the meta and how the meta adjusts to their presence (and the marine changes).

I think they will be competitive though.

Also depends if GW don't come up with some changes in the impending FAQ.

Also Farsight also final have a way of making crisis suits playable thoigh not toptable viable.

What I'd like to know is if we are allowed to run Shadowsun as a third Commander in a FSE detachment.

 carldooley wrote:
What I'd like to know is if we are allowed to run Shadowsun as a third Commander in a FSE detachment.

She would be one of the two commanders you are allowed, but I don't think there is any way intentionally or not for you to run 3 commanders in one detachment.

Ice_can wrote:

 carldooley wrote:
What I'd like to know is if we are allowed to run Shadowsun as a third Commander in a FSE detachment.

She would be one of the two commanders you are allowed, but I don't think there is any way intentionally or not for you to run 3 commanders in one detachment.

You may want to check up on the wording. The new matched play rule on P. 50 of PA:GG says that you can run 2 FSE Commanders per detachment. Shadowsun's Rules on P. 33 say nothing about her being a FSE sept model. Specifically, she is T'au Sept, regardless of which Sept Detachment you take her in.

 carldooley wrote:

Ice_can wrote:

 carldooley wrote:
What I'd like to know is if we are allowed to run Shadowsun as a third Commander in a FSE detachment.

She would be one of the two commanders you are allowed, but I don't think there is any way intentionally or not for you to run 3 commanders in one detachment.

You may want to check up on the wording. The new matched play rule on P. 50 of PA:GG says that you can run 2 FSE Commanders per detachment. Shadowsun's Rules on P. 33 say nothing about her being a FSE sept model. Specifically, she is T'au Sept, regardless of which Sept Detachment you take her in.

Is she a commander, yes
Can you take 2 commanders in a FSE detachment yes
Would she count as 1 of those 2 yes
Can GW write rules in a way that someone can't rules lawer them into being pointless NO.

The intention of the rule is blinding clear, non FSE detachment are limited to 1 commander per detachment, FSE detachments are limited to 2. Not 2 plus 1.

to answer OP.. Yeah I think so. Ive seen some lists and they are scary.. over on TTT ben talked about his plans for his tau list without riptides and I dont know how id fight that with my current army.

Its not so much the commanders but the shield drones... Im interested to see what the next couple tourney show but I think with marines nerf and PA tau rules we are about to see tau take the podium.

Ice_can wrote:
Is she a commander, yes
Can you take 2 FSE commanders in a FSE detachment yes
Would she count as 1 of those 2 NO
Can GW write rules in a way that someone can't rules lawer them into being pointless NO.

 carldooley wrote:
Is she a commander, yes
Can you take 2 FSE commanders in a FSE detachment yes
Would she count as 1 of those 2 NO
Can GW write rules in a way that someone can't rules lawer them into being pointless NO.

She's at best counts as one of the two or is not allowed at all due to the commander rule in the Tau codex which limits all detachments to 1 model with the commander keyword.
But go be a rules lawyer and get it FAQ'd back to 1 per detachment for everyone else.

Also don't just post edited quotes without acknowledging that you have edited the post

Guys, I have another issue.. I’ve painted up 4 strike teams(20 guys) and I was thinking of painting up 10 more for a double battalion, problem is I wanna play Farsight enclaves and most of the enclaves lists I find use Breachers.. so, what do I do? I actually want a triple battalion with 6 commanders. Guess I could do 3 Strike teams and 6 Breacher teams.. then I just need to paint up 30 breachers....zzzz

Played against it yesterday with a load of Breachers, mildly disgusting, but I don't think it was stronger than optimized Tau Sept (haven't played against that since the update). I was playing a melee monster mash list and "only" having to deal with 6+ Overwatch was nice (mostly re-rolling 1s but that's negligible). The Breachers weren't amazing, the 30" range on the usual gun is huge and with a Shas'el you can get 3 shots in RF which is quite devastating even if it's not quite at 5" Breacher level. Had my army been a different flavour of melee (or even just included a unit of Immortals I could Veil into melee) I'd have tagged his Breachers, gone invulnerable and destroyed him. My monsters were useless due to Shield Drones and I got destroyed, same would have happened against Tau Sept.

Consider getting some Kroot, they might allow you to place them out of LOS in a ruin up the board and place your Commanders more aggressively without getting shot off the board. If I'm not mistaken then your transport is still trash, until it becomes more viable I don't think Breachers will be amazing.

I played commanders list.
Like for me 3 coldstar are enough, rest could be from differemt sept

 Argive wrote:
to answer OP.. Yeah I think so. Ive seen some lists and they are scary.. over on TTT ben talked about his plans for his tau list without riptides and I dont know how id fight that with my current army.

Its not so much the commanders but the shield drones... Im interested to see what the next couple tourney show but I think with marines nerf and PA tau rules we are about to see tau take the podium.

Whats TTT and if you aren't running riptides what then? I guess MSU XV8s?

My buddy plays FSE and he's all in to testing out a 6 commander list. This is what we've come up with to test while he prints out more CIB:

FSE Battalion
Enforcer Commander with ATS/3xCIB
Coldstar Commander with 4x Fusion Blaster
3x Breacher Teams (8+1) with guardian drone and shield drone
Firesight Marksman
6x Crisis Bodyguard with Veteran Cadre, Stabilizer Jets, ATS/2x CIB per suit

FSE Battalion
Enforcer Commander with ATS/3xCIB
Coldstar Commander with 4x Fusion Blaster
3x Breacher Teams (8+1) with guardian drone and shield drone
Firesight Marksman

FSE Battalion
Enforcer Commander with ATS/3xCIB
Coldstar Commander with 4x Fusion Blaster (Warlord), Fusion Blades, Hero of the Enclaves
3x Breacher Teams (4+1) with 2x shield drones
Firesight Marksman

I played a Siegler style FSE list yesterday and did not find it to be any stronger than a triptide list.

Maybe I have not yet figured out how it is supposed to be played but I found the breacher/drone msu part to be very limiting. You are giving up Kill more and Butcher's bill a lot, while you do not really control the board, since you still have to play passively with your commanders since you do not want to expose them. Speaking of which, I find breachers to be of limited help in their role protecting characters.

Does anybody have more insight?

I'm trying out the following to find the optimal load-outs between Fusion/CIB/MP etc vs Unit sizes and so on, still ongoing.
The Ghosts soak some good damage for the Commanders, combined with dropping in the Bomb and then drones where needed it has good flexibility and maneuverability even more so than Triptide i would say.
It is not reliant on markerlights and so far CP has been enough, but still testing...

FSE Battalion
Enforcer Commander with ATS/3xCIB
Coldstar Commander with ATS 3x MP
3x Breacher Teams (5)

FSE Outrider
Enforcer Commander with ATS/3xCIB
Coldstar Commander with ATS 3x MP
3x Shield Drones (5)

FSE Vanguard
Enforcer Commander with ATS/3xCIB, X-linked Stabilizers, PEN
Coldstar Commander with 4x Fusion, Examplar of mont'ka
6x Crisis Bodyguard with Veteran Cadre, Reactive Countermeasures, ATS/2x CIB (Iridium 2x CIB/AFP), 6 Shield Drones
3x Ghostkeel Ion/Burst/Shield Gen/TL

I tried a game with a ghostkeel and I think they are a trap.
They seem cheap and durable, with ok firepower but they really do not good at killing anything at all. You also get six xv25 for the same price that can do it's primary job way better, by hiding out of LOS. The only real advantage is it's 12" move.

I run the Ghostkeels to basically only take hits for the commanders and with their hit modifiers and invuln they do that quite good, if they manage to hit something that's just a bonus. XV25 can defo hide better but i like to move around quite a bit (out of cover etc) and the xv25s are super squishy compared to the ghostkeels imo. A mix of them might be good though.

 Sazzlefrats wrote:

 Argive wrote:
to answer OP.. Yeah I think so. Ive seen some lists and they are scary.. over on TTT ben talked about his plans for his tau list without riptides and I dont know how id fight that with my current army.

Its not so much the commanders but the shield drones... Im interested to see what the next couple tourney show but I think with marines nerf and PA tau rules we are about to see tau take the podium.

Whats TTT and if you aren't running riptides what then? I guess MSU XV8s?

Tabletop Tactics, and he's planning to run 6 commanders and one huge squad of crisis suits with the prototype burst cannons. Then just a ton of MSU fire warriors. It looks like as cary list, hits really hard but it really needs to, because it's made of paper. It's a very different style of play to normal Tau meta lists.

X078 wrote:
I run the Ghostkeels to basically only take hits for the commanders and with their hit modifiers and invuln they do that quite good, if they manage to hit something that's just a bonus. XV25 can defo hide better but i like to move around quite a bit (out of cover etc) and the xv25s are super squishy compared to the ghostkeels imo. A mix of them might be good though.

Yeah, a mix works well for me. I have a core of 2 ghostkeels, 2 squads stealth, plus Shadowsun, and they do work for me. Maybe I am just lucky, but I find my Ghostkeels put out a good amount of hurt, especially since they just. won't. die. between the hit penalty, invuln, and shield drones from the stealth suits, I have frustrated many opponents. And then when they hit back I have a tendency to do things like knock out half an imperial knight, etc. The stealh suits also help by being in front and eating any scary charges--grotesques, wraiths, the previously mentioned imperial knights.

Shovi wrote:
I played a Siegler style FSE list yesterday and did not find it to be any stronger than a triptide list.

Does anybody have more insight?

What is a Siegler style FSE list?