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The current rules for Fall Back leave much to be desired. Fast, agile melee units can be easily escaped from by slow units, leaving the melee attacker to stand still and get shot during the ensuing shooting phase without penalty. Additionally, extremely powerful units like Land Raiders may be tied up by cheap chaff units like Nurglings and Rippers, units that it seems like the tank should just be able to run over and continue to shoot.

I'd like to propose a pair of new actions that can be taken in the movement phase by units within 1" of enemy models to replace Fall Back: Escape and Breakthrough.

Escape seeks to create a somewhat weakened, more tactical version of Fall Back that also closes the seemingly unintended loophole of "Tripointing". Instead, after all Escape moves are made, any units that were within 1" of the active player's units at the start of the movement phase and are now no longer within 1" of any models may make a Pursue move equal to their Mv stat directly towards the closest escaping model. This means that a unit with a higher Move stat will automatically be able to pursue and catch a unit with a lower Move stat, and a unit with a higher Move stat will still need to move farther than the pursuing unit's Move stat in order to escape them - no more simply falling back 1" and acting normally if you have the Fly keyword.

Escape can still be used tactically if you know you will be pursued and caught, in order to move pursuers away from additional units that they might pile into and tie up, or away from battlefield objectives or out of cover. You may also escape with a slower unit if you have multiple units within 1" of one potential pursuer, and you leave 1 unit in combat with them - Pursue moves are only allowed if you are no longer within 1" of enemy models after all Escape moves are made.

Breakthrough is a new type of Fall Back representing models using superior strength to plow through weaker units attempting to tie them up in melee. A successful Breakthrough allows no Pursue moves, and allows the unit to act normally in the shoot and charge phase, but the opposing player may choose to try and stop the Breakthrough via a roll-off. Extremely strong units like tanks have little to no chance to be stopped by extremely weak chaff units, and in attempting to stop a breakthrough a unit risks being crushed by the weight of the unit - models like Vehicles that are very easy to avoid in the Fight phase can be much more dangerous if you're purposefully using your body to try and stop them from getting away.

Remove the rule Fall Back.

Change the rule for Consolidate: Consolidate moves may now only be performed by units that Fight and have no enemy models within 1" of them after they make their attacks in close combat. Units who Fight in the fight phase and still have one or more enemy models within 1" after making their attacks may not perform Consolidate moves.

Escape: Any unit within 1" of any enemy models at the start of the movement phase may attempt to Escape. Change all current references to Fall Back in the rules to Escape. When making an Escape move, models may move through enemy models from units within 1" at the start of the Escape move. Models in a unit making an Escape move may be moved up to their Mv stat and must end the Escape move more than 1" away from any enemy models.

After all Escape moves have been made, any enemy unit that was within 1" of a unit that made an Escape move that is now no longer within 1" of any enemy models may elect to make a Pursue move. Models making a Pursue move must move the shortest distance possible toward the closest Escaping model up to their Mv stat, and may move within 1" of enemy models with this move.

Example: An Imperial Guard infantry squad is within 1" of a unit of Howling Banshees and elects to make an Escape move. The unit moves 6", moving away from a nearby Chimera tank. The Howling Banshees elect to make a Pursue move, moving the shortest possible distance to come within 1" of models in the Imperial Guard infantry squad. As the Infantry Squad is still within 1" of enemy models, it may only fire Pistol weapons in the shooting phase and will Fight in the Fight phase.

Example: A Space Marine Stormhawk Interceptor is within 1" of a unit of Ork Stormboyz and elects to make an Escape move. It moves 36" away, and the unit of Stormboyz elects to make a Pursue move and moves 12" directly towards the Stormhawk. The Stormhawk's FLY keyword allows it to still shoot in the shooting phase after making an Escape move, as all references to Fall Back are replaced with Escape.

Example: A Tau Breacher Team and a Coldstar Commander are both within 1" of a unit of Daemonettes. One Breacher model is surrounded by 3 Daemonette models within 1". The Breacher Team elects to make an Escape move, but the Coldstar Commander does not. The Breacher team moves such that no models are within 1" of enemy models, and may move through models in the unit of Daemonettes as if they were not there. The unit of Daemonettes cannot be selected to make a Pursue move because they are still within 1" of the Coldstar Commander. The Breacher Team may not shoot in the following shooting phase because they have made an Escape move.

Breakthrough: Any unit within 1" of enemy models at the start of the movement phase may attempt to make a Breakthrough move if all enemy models within 1" have a lower Strength.

The opposing player may then choose whether or not his models will attempt to stop the Breakthrough. If they choose not to stop the Breakthrough, the unit may make a normal move that may pass through any models from units that were within 1" at the start of the movement phase, and must end outside of 1" from any enemy models.

If the opposing player chooses to try and stop the Breakthrough, both players roll a D6. The player attempting the Breakthrough adds the lowest Strength value of any model in the unit, and the player attempting to stop the Breakthrough adds the highest strength value of any model within 1" of the unit. If the opposing player's total is equal to or higher than the acting player's total, the Breakthrough move may not be made and the unit may not act in the movement phase. If the acting player's total is higher than the opposing player's total, the Breakthrough move is made and the opposing player must select 1 unit that attempted to stop the breakthrough. That unit takes a number of automatic hits equal to the highest Attacks stat in the unit making the Breakthrough move. These hits use the Strength value that the acting player added to his roll, have no Armor Penetration value, and a Damage of 1.

In all remaining phases of the turn, a unit that made a Breakthrough move counts as having moved its maximum movement value in the movement phase. Pursue moves may not be made in response to Breakthrough moves.

Example: A unit of Primaris Intercessors attempts to make a Breakthrough move while within 1" of a unit of Eldar Storm Guardians, and the opposing player decides to attempt to stop him. The active player rolls 1d6 and adds 4, the Strength value of the Intercessors, obtaining a total of 8. The opposing player rolls 1d6 and adds 3, the strength value of the Guardians, obtaining a total of 6. The Breakthrough move is made, and the Storm Guardians take 3 automatic hits at S4, Ap-, D1, equal to the Attacks stat of the intercessor sergeant.

Example: A Land Raider Redeemer attempts to make a Breakthrough move while within 1" of a unit of Gretchin. The opposing player decides not to stop him, and the Breakthrough move is made. In the Shooting and Charge phase, the Land Raider may shoot and charge as normal.

Example: A unit of Ogryn attempts to make a Breakthrough move while within 1" of a unit of Drukhari Wyches. Because all references to Fall Back have been replaced with Escape and not Breakthrough, the Wyches' No Escape rule does not apply. The active player rolls 1d6 and adds the Strength characteristic of the Ogryn for a total of 7, and the opposing player rolls 1d6 and adds the Strength characteristic of the Wyches for a total of 7. The Ogryn may not make any move in the movement phase.

The auto hits seems to favour a unit of a single model with high attacks over say a terminator squad which together has a lot of attacks, but individually doesn't.

More than that it doesn't seem to add much so just drop it?

With regards to the strength - do you use the strength of the models or the weapons? So for example a terminator squad will have a hard time breaking through a squad of guardsmen (str 4 vs 3), however they are wounding with their CC weapons on 2+'s (str 8 vs 3)?

The_Real_Chris wrote:
The auto hits seems to favour a unit of a single model with high attacks over say a terminator squad which together has a lot of attacks, but individually doesn't.

More than that it doesn't seem to add much so just drop it?

With regards to the strength - do you use the strength of the models or the weapons? So for example a terminator squad will have a hard time breaking through a squad of guardsmen (str 4 vs 3), however they are wounding with their CC weapons on 2+'s (str 8 vs 3)?

The autohits are generally there as a disincentive to attempt to stop a breakthrough where you have a high strength differential. They are a bonus provided when a player attempts to stop a Breakthrough move and the attempt fails, the main benefit of Breakthrough over Escape is that no pursuit is possible after a Breakthrough and a unit that performed one can still shoot and charge this turn.

it purposefully is stronger for single, higher strength models. You do not gain any benefit from melee weapons, the hits use a strength value equal to the model. The disincentive is purposefully lower when dealing with a unit of, for example, Terminators attempting a breakthrough against Guardsmen, where the guardsmen have a fairly good chance to stop the terminators, versus something like Cultists trying to stop a Leman Russ, where you'd be much more inclined to let the russ go rather than shoot for that "I roll a 6, you roll a 1" roll-off.

Similarly, you use the unmodified strength stat when rolling off for breakthroughs. You do not use the strength stat as modified by weaponry. For midstrength models, Breakthrough would be a higher-risk, higher-reward form of fall back.

the_scotsman wrote:

Change the rule for Consolidate: Consolidate moves may now only be performed by units that Fight and have no enemy models within 1" of them after they make their attacks in close combat. Units who Fight in the fight phase and still have one or more enemy models within 1" after making their attacks may not perform Consolidate moves.

This seems to be really punishing for hordes, and I'm not sure what you're going for. If a big mob of ork boyz kills off most of what they charged but still have a couple survivors within 1" of someone in the boyz unit, then you no longer get a 3" move to try and line up more attacks in the next fight phase? And that blob of boyz, if spread out, might normally be close enough to another unit to consolidate into it but wouldn't get to do so if their nob 12" away but technically still part of the unit is within 1" of a guardsman?

Escape: Any unit within 1" of any enemy models at the start of the movement phase may attempt to Escape. Change all current references to Fall Back in the rules to Escape. When making an Escape move, models may move through enemy models from units within 1" at the start of the Escape move. Models in a unit making an Escape move may be moved up to their Mv stat and must end the Escape move more than 1" away from any enemy models.


After all Escape moves have been made, any enemy unit that was within 1" of a unit that made an Escape move that is now no longer within 1" of any enemy models may elect to make a Pursue move. Models making a Pursue move must move the shortest distance possible toward the closest Escaping model up to their Mv stat, and may move within 1" of enemy models with this move.

Not sure how I feel about anything with an 8" move being basically uncatchable by anything with a 6" move or less. I feel like escaping units could fall back in a "fan" formation to limit the enemy unit's ability to pursue. If one screen goes left and the other goes right, for instance, the fact that you have to pursue the closest model means that the pursuing unit can effectively lose some of its movement due to unit coherency. Assuming this doesn't let you break unit coherency willingly.

Breakthrough: Any unit within 1" of enemy models at the start of the movement phase may attempt to make a Breakthrough move if all enemy models within 1" have a lower Strength.

The opposing player may then choose whether or not his models will attempt to stop the Breakthrough. If they choose not to stop the Breakthrough, the unit may make a normal move that may pass through any models from units that were within 1" at the start of the movement phase, and must end outside of 1" from any enemy models.

If the opposing player chooses to try and stop the Breakthrough, both players roll a D6. The player attempting the Breakthrough adds the lowest Strength value of any model in the unit, and the player attempting to stop the Breakthrough adds the highest strength value of any model within 1" of the unit. If the opposing player's total is equal to or higher than the acting player's total, the Breakthrough move may not be made and the unit may not act in the movement phase. If the acting player's total is higher than the opposing player's total, the Breakthrough move is made and the opposing player must select 1 unit that attempted to stop the breakthrough. That unit takes a number of automatic hits equal to the highest Attacks stat in the unit making the Breakthrough move. These hits use the Strength value that the acting player added to his roll, have no Armor Penetration value, and a Damage of 1.

In all remaining phases of the turn, a unit that made a Breakthrough move counts as having moved its maximum movement value in the movement phase. Pursue moves may not be made in response to Breakthrough moves.

I feel like you could replace all of that with, "vehicles and monsters may move over infantry, swarm, beast, and bike models when falling back provided they do not end their movement within 1" of any enemy models." If the goal is to let big stuff push its way through small stuff, this would pretty much cover it. It doesn't do anything that fly doesn't already do. The biggest difference is that something like a chaos spawn (strength 5) wouldn't be able to jump over something like a horde of hormagaunts (strength 3), but I feel like that's reasonable in-universe.

So breakthrough could probably be streamlined to a sort of pseudo-fly, and I'm not sure I see much advantage to Escape over Fall Back other than making Movement a bigger factor. And as someone who plays various flavors of aeldari and slaanesh, I'm not sure I love the idea of being uncatchable/inescapable.

The limit on consolidation was intended to reduce the free movement granted to assault units through Pursue moves. A common complaint I see regarding assault is that assault units can simply blob into a huge number of vehicles, artillery units, and basically end the game because those units can't fall back and shoot.

Pursue does not let you break coherency willingly, the reasoning behind the restrictiveness is to avoid Pursue simply becoming another iteration of the current Pile In/Consolidate shenanigans, where those moves are "limited" but charge moves ARENT, so you're perfectly free to only *technically* charge some character, say, one commissar, move 1 model within 1" of him, move all the rest of the models right next to a ton of stuff, and then "Pile in" to all those models ignoring overwatch and tying them up. Pursue is intended to be the assaulting unit chasing after the unit that ran away from them, and explicitly not a way to just get a free move that lets you charge other units uninvolved in the current combat.

GW also likes to "Distinguish" certain units by adding an inch or two of movement, particularly infantry, but at the end of the day since most assault moves are now independent of stats and there's no benefit like the old initiative system that rewards you for having a better stat value than an opponent, the distinction between a 6" move marine and a 7" move eldar model is...pretty meaningless. Having a higher movement value meaning you can successfully escape or catch a unit that tries to escape gives a bigger distinction to the stat comparison, much in the same way that having a single point higher strength than the toughness of your target makes a huge difference.

The main problem vehicles and monsters currently have in the assault rules is more specific to the way they were put in to the game than it is the system itself. if vehicles were any kind of appreciable threat in melee that a single grot wouldn't have a very solid chance of surviving combat vs a land raider, vehicles would not have this problem but we don't have that situation. The main difference between current fallback and breakthrough is a purposeful reduction in the power of cheap, weak chaff infantry in their ability to prevent non-fly units from shooting.

This is a problem though it's been one that's mostly been solved by the games meta: Almost nobody is taking non-FLY vehicle units as part of their competitive lists, or if they do they're screened by some 200+ GEQ bodies, because combat is simply game over.

In previous editions, vehicles simply didn't get locked in combat with infantry and Tank Shock prevented infantry from acting as an impenetrable wall. I'd propose that the main problem with that rule is that it's artificially limited to vehicles when monsters, super-heavy infantry like custodes and bullgryns and such would also be able to make use of it.

the_scotsman wrote:

The autohits are generally there as a disincentive to attempt to stop a breakthrough where you have a high strength differential. They are a bonus provided when a player attempts to stop a Breakthrough move and the attempt fails, the main benefit of Breakthrough over Escape is that no pursuit is possible after a Breakthrough and a unit that performed one can still shoot and charge this turn.

So take it further. My mod ob 30 ork boys breakthrough a command squad of guardsmen and do... 1? 2? hits (forgot an Ork boys stats). A single Ogryn breaking through will do 3 hits. It is potentially a bit silly and anyway is so few in most cases you can simply drop it, or make it appropriately deadly.

The_Real_Chris wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

The autohits are generally there as a disincentive to attempt to stop a breakthrough where you have a high strength differential. They are a bonus provided when a player attempts to stop a Breakthrough move and the attempt fails, the main benefit of Breakthrough over Escape is that no pursuit is possible after a Breakthrough and a unit that performed one can still shoot and charge this turn.

So take it further. My mod ob 30 ork boys breakthrough a command squad of guardsmen and do... 1? 2? hits (forgot an Ork boys stats). A single Ogryn breaking through will do 3 hits. It is potentially a bit silly and anyway is so few in most cases you can simply drop it, or make it appropriately deadly.

3, technically, since the boss nob is the model with the most attacks.

One of the major issues I take with Overwatch is the level of invisible bonus power that is handed to units simply by nature of existing and being targeted. An ork shooting unit that gets charged at twice in the opponent's charge phase has effectively shot twice in the turn simply for existing. I think it'd be healthier for the game if a model's offensive output in one turn was more easily fixed as it is in apoc, where overwatch and fighting in the "opponents turn" does not exist (because there is no "opponents turn' both players share a battle round and all units act once).

The other reason I went with just a few autohits instead of a mirror to current overwatch is because current overwatch is incredibly laborious to resolve for the impact it typically generates. You roll allllll the dice for a normal shooting attack, have to remember all the rules, all the re-rolls, wound, save, etc, usually all for 3-4 hits total.

maybe folding the ability into Fall Back is a mistake, but larger units need to have some kind of means to displace or attack smaller units in the movement phase in 8th. FLY is and always has been far too essential a rule for units in 8th, and the impact of super cheap chaff squads has been massively inflated because of some of these all or nothing type rules like locking vehicles in combat or large models being totally unable to move through even a single cultist model with Tank Shock gone. Armies that don't have large numbers of FLY units just kind of feel like ameobas smashing into one another when they try to move around on the board, and in general it's just become easier to go for tabling than achieve any kind of objectives with them.

the_scotsman wrote:
The limit on consolidation was intended to reduce the free movement granted to assault units through Pursue moves. A common complaint I see regarding assault is that assault units can simply blob into a huge number of vehicles, artillery units, and basically end the game because those units can't fall back and shoot.

If the main goal here is to keep vehicles from being tied up, I feel that giving them fly-light might be a better way to go. Just let them move through enemy units when falling back per my suggestion above. Maybe bring back a 'defensive weapons" rule that lets them shoot strength 5 and lower weapons after falling back? So charging a bassilisk and forcing the crew to hit the gas and repel borders keeps it from lobbing shells downfield, but the guys on the bolters or stubbers or whatever a bassi has can keep shooting away.

The main problem vehicles and monsters currently have in the assault rules is more specific to the way they were put in to the game than it is the system itself. if vehicles were any kind of appreciable threat in melee that a single grot wouldn't have a very solid chance of surviving combat vs a land raider, vehicles would not have this problem but we don't have that situation. The main difference between current fallback and breakthrough is a purposeful reduction in the power of cheap, weak chaff infantry in their ability to prevent non-fly units from shooting.

The tricky thing there is just how killy do you make vehicles in melee? Even if a russ could hit on 4+ in melee with 6 Attacks, you'd probably still want to charge it if it meant keeping its big guns quiet. And if guard tank castles and marine repulsors start doubling as decent melee units, just how high does the cost on a tank need to become?

Instead of making it based on strength, make it based on the wounds between the two sides. Vehicles MCs Super heavies and fly get modifiers (like x2).

If you have more or equal wounds than your opponent, you can leave but not shoot.
If you have fewer wounds, you can't leave.
If you have twice as many wounds you can leave and shoot.

If multiple units are in CC, add the effective wounds together and then fall them back one by one, until they no longer have enough to do so.

Not a perfect system by any means, but because wounds are more analogous to mass then strength is it would make more sense to tie moving through to mass. It also means that as units get depleted they organically are worse at both tying units down and falling back. Beefy assault units (like terminators, MANZ, even CC warriors).

Alongside this make it so that if you must move through enemy models to fall back, all models that would normally get to attack may do so. Rewarding heavy wraps instead of a thin line across the front