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Or do people really like these things? I left 40k for the first time before lieutenants existed. I came back and they're not only a thing but everyone's always joking about how gw will probably release another space marine lieutenant with power sword every time there's a talk about upcoming models. I haha'd a couple of times and then low and behold I have an email advertisement for Lieutenant Amulius. So my question is, are these a thing? Do people like collecting them? Is GW aware that they're mocked for them?

They are aware. Two are vanguard marines with different loadouts, a few are chapter specific ones, and a few are event exclusives, like Amulius. Then the ones from DarK Impeeium to introduce the unit.

Considering they ran a top 20 lieutenant article recently, with tongue firmly in cheek, I'd say they're aware.
The fact that they keep doing it suggests they must do good business too.

what I don't get is, why the lieutenant. He's not even a particularly important piece.

Every single 40k meme. Ever. Is self deprecating. The community just loves to run decades old jokes into the ground then necromance them for good measure. “Hurr durr. Abaddon the armless!!!” -40k community let’s out a collective wheeze and a knee slap.

 kingheff wrote:
Considering they ran a top 20 lieutenant article recently, with tongue firmly in cheek, I'd say they're aware.
The fact that they keep doing it suggests they must do good business too.

They did it with 'The Primaris Lieutenant you've all been waiting for' too.

The reality is many people collect Space Marines, some of them will buy a new box set just because it contains Space Marines and some aren't even particularly interested in Space Marines but have an obligatory collection so they're an obvious choice for a promotional model that will have wide appeal. The Lieutenant was an easy choice as a secondary, always useful and relatively new HQ choice.

 Nitro Zeus wrote:
what I don't get is, why the lieutenant. He's not even a particularly important piece.

I think it's because the Power Sword/Bolt Pistol combo is a simple combo therefore easy for designers to work on and produce many variants.

MistaGav wrote:

 Nitro Zeus wrote:
what I don't get is, why the lieutenant. He's not even a particularly important piece.

I think it's because the Power Sword/Bolt Pistol combo is a simple combo therefore easy for designers to work on and produce many variants.

I think also because of older players. Before they reintroduced the Lt. in 8th, all the special even guys, alternate sculpts, etc were captains. OK, not all, but a lot of them. Most marine players who had been into the hobby for more than a few years have a handful of captains. I know personally I have more then a chapter should have. .

But nobody* had any lieutenants. So it was an opportunity to make a fancier then normal trooper model, that both old and new players would want to buy.

From a game mechanic POV, the re-roll to wound aura is very nice to have. Lt.s are a solid addition to any army.


* I say “nobody” but some of us really old gits did have one waiting in the wings to return to battle.

 Nitro Zeus wrote:
what I don't get is, why the lieutenant. He's not even a particularly important piece.

Because the number of Primaris Lieutenants released since the start of 8th edition is in double figures, while other non-Marine factions siniltaneously recieve essentially nothing.


It would be funnier if GW wasn't saying 'Haha isn't it funny that we release loads of Primaris Lieutenants' while releasing loads of Primaris lieutenants. It would be like them saying 'Haha, yeah, we have to release FAQs for our FAQs for our errata. Isn't that hilarious!'

Yes, GW are very much aware of the joke.

Why Lieutenants? Well, I think there's a few factors.
Their most popular (and recognisable) faction is Space Marines. Like them or loathe them, but Space Marines are probably GW's most iconic faction and the thing that practically everyone hears about. It's like Spartans from Halo: sure, there's other factions out there, but THAT'S the iconic one.

Furthermore, a Lieutenant is easily customisable and used for a range of things. They can fit any of the Chapters (even the Chapter exclusive ones like Tolmeron, Haldor, Calsius and Zacheriah can be converted to fit your own guys), they have strong, solid sculpts, and, like a lot of Space Marine stuff, is iconic in it's own right. It appeals to the largest player base, and also to the painting/collecting crowd too. Space Marines are relatively easy to paint, with big flat surfaces, nice bright colours, and represent a simple blank slate. Even if you don't play, it's a nice centrepiece.

And just look to their choice of weapon - a power sword. It plays into that iconic melee fascination with 40k, but also makes a very nice canvas for a painter. You can paint it a nice simple silver, or you can go out and do some extreme OSL and glowing effects on it.

Going back to the "easily customisable" point - I think a Lieutenant hits a very nice balance between a Sergeant and Captain. You've got the access to more fancy items or wargear that a regular battle brother wouldn't get, but it's still in that "iconic" range of options, sticking with a pistol and melee weapon a lot of the time. As an independent leader without a unit, you can sell them without the buyer also requiring a unit to accompany them (ruling out Sergeants), and can have a more commanding/dynamic pose.
But why not Captains? Well, I think it's to keep a degree of simplicity. It's much easier to up-bling a model than to down-bling it. So, a standard Lieutenant sculpt could fit in for both Sergeants or Captains with very little extra effort, whereas getting a Captain to look like a Sergeant or Lieutenant is a bit more tricky. Basically, it's a nice simplistic hero that can fill in for a wide range of roles on the modelling aspect.

TL;DR - Space Marines are the most popular faction, and Lieutenants strike a nice balance as a minor hero that can appeal to a wide range of potential buyers.

Personally I like all the Lt models since you don't have to use them as a Lt. Lt Cassius is my favorite and I'm thinking about running him as a company/chapter champion

Its funny, and I'm glad they have a sense of humour about themselves.

However, its frustrating that they've released more Lieutenants in the last 2 years than man armies even have for hero's or characters.

It would be nice to see some love for other factions.

Lieutenants are largely just intercessor models on a larger base. You don't need to buy any of the stand alone lieutenants honestly, just get the larger base and use an intercessor.

 Apple Peel wrote:
They are aware. Two are vanguard marines with different loadouts, a few are chapter specific ones, and a few are event exclusives, like Amulius. Then the ones from DarK Impeeium to introduce the unit.

Isn't it funny how the deep striking get closer phobos got the long range gun, while the melee close range dude can't deploy close to the enemy and has to hoof it across the table ?

Karol wrote:

 Apple Peel wrote:
They are aware. Two are vanguard marines with different loadouts, a few are chapter specific ones, and a few are event exclusives, like Amulius. Then the ones from DarK Impeeium to introduce the unit.

Isn't it funny how the deep striking get closer phobos got the long range gun, while the melee close range dude can't deploy close to the enemy and has to hoof it across the table ?

Oh yeah. Incredibly hilarious while also tragic. Like Shakespeare.

 Nitro Zeus wrote:
what I don't get is, why the lieutenant. He's not even a particularly important piece.

I seem to recall them talking about that in one of their Voxcast podcasts, maybe with Jes Goodwin or another miniatures designer, where I believe they said that they use lieutenants as an introductory model for new sculptors. It's a character that's supposed to stand out, but not so much as to be obnoxious so it's a good way for a new sculptor to get used to GW's methods and style, while allowing GW to see how the sculptor works with these kinds of parameters. They then sell the miniatures, because why not?

 Cheex wrote:

 Nitro Zeus wrote:
what I don't get is, why the lieutenant. He's not even a particularly important piece.

I seem to recall them talking about that in one of their Voxcast podcasts, maybe with Jes Goodwin or another miniatures designer, where I believe they said that they use lieutenants as an introductory model for new sculptors. It's a character that's supposed to stand out, but not so much as to be obnoxious so it's a good way for a new sculptor to get used to GW's methods and style, while allowing GW to see how the sculptor works with these kinds of parameters. They then sell the miniatures, because why not?

That's actually pretty good reasoning, and, while it's obnoxious there is a lot of them, they're each their own standout piece.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Cheex wrote:

 Nitro Zeus wrote:
what I don't get is, why the lieutenant. He's not even a particularly important piece.

I seem to recall them talking about that in one of their Voxcast podcasts, maybe with Jes Goodwin or another miniatures designer, where I believe they said that they use lieutenants as an introductory model for new sculptors. It's a character that's supposed to stand out, but not so much as to be obnoxious so it's a good way for a new sculptor to get used to GW's methods and style, while allowing GW to see how the sculptor works with these kinds of parameters. They then sell the miniatures, because why not?

That's actually pretty good reasoning, and, while it's obnoxious there is a lot of them, they're each their own standout piece.

I was told this about a few months ago by my local GW manager, who I got talking about Lueitenants with (I think it was during the lead up to Abaddon)
He tells me that in addition when GW was creating the Primaris range, they had ALL of their mini designers do a Leuitenant to "get a feel for the new range" with the intent of just using 1 or 2, they liked the designs they got so much they ended up using them all

BrianDavion wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Cheex wrote:

 Nitro Zeus wrote:
what I don't get is, why the lieutenant. He's not even a particularly important piece.

I seem to recall them talking about that in one of their Voxcast podcasts, maybe with Jes Goodwin or another miniatures designer, where I believe they said that they use lieutenants as an introductory model for new sculptors. It's a character that's supposed to stand out, but not so much as to be obnoxious so it's a good way for a new sculptor to get used to GW's methods and style, while allowing GW to see how the sculptor works with these kinds of parameters. They then sell the miniatures, because why not?

That's actually pretty good reasoning, and, while it's obnoxious there is a lot of them, they're each their own standout piece.

I was told this about a few months ago by my local GW manager, who I got talking about Lueitenants with (I think it was during the lead up to Abaddon)
He tells me that in addition when GW was creating the Primaris range, they had ALL of their mini designers do a Leuitenant to "get a feel for the new range" with the intent of just using 1 or 2, they liked the designs they got so much they ended up using them all

GW pulling the old “We want some Dwarfs with great weapons” again. So the story goes in the early 2000s they commissioned a sculptor to make some new Dwarf character minis. GW meant great as in “good looking” or “excellent”. Sculptor interpreted it as the weapon option of the same name and that is how we got several Dwarf characters all armed the same way.

It’s kinda nice that each time you fight a space marine army its characters look different.

There is almost an argument that it strikes a happy medium between choosing dynamic sculpt vs posable.

Just buy the dynamic sculpt that is in the pose you want! And because pistol/sword are easy to hand or weapon swap, it works out well for choosing load outs too.

Karol wrote:

 Apple Peel wrote:
They are aware. Two are vanguard marines with different loadouts, a few are chapter specific ones, and a few are event exclusives, like Amulius. Then the ones from DarK Impeeium to introduce the unit.

Isn't it funny how the deep striking get closer phobos got the long range gun, while the melee close range dude can't deploy close to the enemy and has to hoof it across the table ?

I wonder how many "what the #!$@ GW?" emails they got about that after the second Phobos Leiutenant weapon load came out.

I don't mind the good-natured intent behind it. It be nice is more memes were it is this friendly ribbing/self-deprecating compared to veiled mean comments. One of my favorite Warhammer TV videos was the Lieutenant show one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SFsL-VdxLYw

It is a little excessive, but somewhat understandable. For better or worse three of the Lieutenants are for different factions (BA, DA and SW). A number of them were meant, store openings that few were ever going to own. The Phobos ones slot into specific units, or at least could have if their special deployment rules were swapped. Which I think has more to do with grav chutes modeled on the wrong one.

Funny enough, I only have the Shadowspear Lt for my army. Well, two if you count the Abbadon one. Even though my army's signature unit is Reivers, I just didn't really want a Riever Lt that can't deep strike without spending CP. Especially at the marine special character price GW wants for the model nice as it is. Even the regular Lieutenants seem like it would be better just to convert an Intercessor rather than spend the money for the real deal. Which I will probably do as I kinda want a cheap Primaris HQ unit down the road.

Even as someone with a Primaris army, I would have preferred that special character model be spread around other factions. The idea that these were practice projects that turned out well makes sense. Especially if you consider they would probably sell well too being space marines as well as other things already mentioned in this thread. I am certainly glad that the upcoming model is a Catachan. I hope the trend continues. Just as much, I am good on the number of Primaris Lieutenants out there for a good long while.