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Greetings Dakkarians. Yes I do think that sounds cool, and yes I did just make it up.

I finally bit the bullet and decided to get into 40K 8th ed. Just in time for the 9th ed to be announced. I own a fairly decent collection of Death Guard, Heretic Astartes and Daemons of Chaos. My intent was to run a Nugle/Slaanesh themed army. However, it's been years since I last assembled a model, and I'm overwhelmed. I'm looking for some reassurance that it's still worth getting into 40K.

First of all, there are an utterly bewildering number of rules, units etc spread across multiple sources. I have three Codices already; I need to refer to multiple FAQs (one for each of the Codices and at least one for 40K); I need Chapter Approved 2019 (and its FAQ!); now apparently I need a feth-load of supplements like Vigilus Ablaze, Psychic Awakening, Wrath and Rapture? What in the name of Tzeentch's mad savant happened here? On top of this, each unit now has its own datasheet, each of which has its own special rules and can appear in multiple books. And when I search for army tactics eg on 1d4chan, they clutter it up with units, wargear and tactics from multiple other sources including Forge World!

Oh, and if I want to use all my Chaos stuff? Well Chaos isn't just Chaos, of course. They are multiple separate armies despite crossing over into each others' codices. This is a beginner's trap, because if I want to use Plague Marines, Bloat Drones and Plaguebearers in one detachment, I lose access to about three hundred special rules, despite these all being in the Death Guard army list. And if I want to have three detachments - one from each of my Chaos armies - then I need to have all the stratagems and special rules for each army!

RIP "streamlined" 40K, hello "grey goo 40K".

I am wondering if it is worth going through the pain of having to learn how to model, convert and paint, and to find opponents. (Yeah, I still need to do all this!) Is 40K as hideously convoluted as it now seems? Can anyone provide an up to date list of essential rules, FAQs, supplements etc?

Thank you from a bewildered gamer!

Deleted.

Well with 9th edition on the horizon it's all subject to change. A few things that will hopefully help clarify...

The datasheet for each unit is just the rules for that unit from the codex. Appearing in multiple books isn't the norm - suspect you're talking about Plaguebearers? Chaos Marine HQs can summon them, or they can appear as troops in a Daemon army - hence the two entries.

Yeah the rules bloat has gone a bit nuts and GW have really got into the expansion via campaign books thing of late. I'd say don't bother getting Chapter Approved. You'd be better off just getting the 9th edition book once it's available. It will supercede CA I expect. I'd be tempted to not bother getting the campaign books either, in the hope that the relevant stuff will be collated into the 9th edition codex books. That's the bad news by the way - there will be new codices. 8th edition ones are compatible in the mean time though.

1D4chan shows stuff from Forge World because Forge World is part of Games Workshop. It's not 'another source', it's 100% legit Games Workshop - just the part of Games Workshop that does the properly expensive resin collectors item sort of stuff.

As for is it worth it? Ultimately only you can decide that. It's bloody bad luck buying in to 8th at this point though.

Yeah bloat is a bit bad i would focus on one fation for a while. or try a single faction army like ork or necrons. If you don't play super competetive you really don't have to know all thes stuff from alls the books.

I have to say collecting an army without knowing if you have people to play against seems off to me, but okay. But with 9th on the horizon I'd say hold off on getting all the extra rulebooks. Now yours and mine DG have some of the oldest codexes but also the most recent PA so there is no saying when we get a new book. But especially since you don't seem to have any direct players at the moment just collect what you like for now I'd say, and dip into the various CSM/Demon/DG tactica threads if you are worried about building a efficient army.
The part about running demons in the same detachment as DG making your plague marines forget what legion they are, granted it's dumb. But DG/Nurgle soup works decently well I heard.

 NoPoet wrote:


I am wondering if it is worth going through the pain of having to learn how to model, convert and paint, and to find opponents. (Yeah, I still need to do all this!) Is 40K as hideously convoluted as it now seems? Can anyone provide an up to date list of essential rules, FAQs, supplements etc?

Thank you from a bewildered gamer!

If all goes according to plan the future 40k app will have all the rules in one place without the need to acquired XX physical codexes, print all the FAQS, and buy a chapter approved every year.
The only unknown is the entry or monthly fee to the app.

Definitely agree to hold off on books til 9th- that is solid advice.

I have high hopes for the App, but I'm nervous that if expectations are too high, disappointment is almost inevitable. They haven't previewed it yet, but you can be almost guaranteed they will. I'm enjoying the Warhammer Daily's on Twitch TV, and I highly recommend it. This will give you a bit of insight into what 9th means.

What we know so far is that this edition will actually supports 500 point battles with missions written specifically for that size; it's also an entry point for the Crusade system, which is a new narrative format where your armies grow as you play. From what you've said about your collection, I think this style would suit you particularly well.

With 3 small armies, when the time comes, I don't think finding an opponent won't be hard. I have lots of friends who have no interest in buying, building and painting an army, but I've never had a friend who wouldn't play a game when I was in a position to supply models.

TLDR: hit the brakes on books til 9th; buy the rulebook on release day and take it from there- if you don't like what you see, all it cost you was the book.

RIP "streamlined" 40K, hello "grey goo 40K".

they did that to me twice now. 4th edition with my beloved dark angels went super stripped down and simplified as the editions first new codex......for about 3 codexes in and then they turned to power creep up to 41000.


then in 8th it started out stripped down again after the bloat problem of formations in 7th....only to be repeated by the stratagem bloat in later 8th.


A GW mini here and there are fine looking models for a display cabinet, however the key here that drives us to buy huge amounts of minis is the ability to play the game. i would suggest you look around and find out what groups play in your area before you move ahead.

Our group mostly plays core 5th rules and if you were in our area we would welcome you to use any 5th ed compatible dex (editions 3-7) with open arms.....but you don't, so you have to see what works for you.

 NoPoet wrote:
Greetings Dakkarians. Yes I do think that sounds cool, and yes I did just make it up.

I finally bit the bullet and decided to get into 40K 8th ed. Just in time for the 9th ed to be announced. I own a fairly decent collection of Death Guard, Heretic Astartes and Daemons of Chaos. My intent was to run a Nugle/Slaanesh themed army. However, it's been years since I last assembled a model, and I'm overwhelmed. I'm looking for some reassurance that it's still worth getting into 40K.

First of all, there are an utterly bewildering number of rules, units etc spread across multiple sources. I have three Codices already; I need to refer to multiple FAQs (one for each of the Codices and at least one for 40K); I need Chapter Approved 2019 (and its FAQ!); now apparently I need a feth-load of supplements like Vigilus Ablaze, Psychic Awakening, Wrath and Rapture? What in the name of Tzeentch's mad savant happened here? On top of this, each unit now has its own datasheet, each of which has its own special rules and can appear in multiple books. And when I search for army tactics eg on 1d4chan, they clutter it up with units, wargear and tactics from multiple other sources including Forge World!

Oh, and if I want to use all my Chaos stuff? Well Chaos isn't just Chaos, of course. They are multiple separate armies despite crossing over into each others' codices. This is a beginner's trap, because if I want to use Plague Marines, Bloat Drones and Plaguebearers in one detachment, I lose access to about three hundred special rules, despite these all being in the Death Guard army list. And if I want to have three detachments - one from each of my Chaos armies - then I need to have all the stratagems and special rules for each army!

RIP "streamlined" 40K, hello "grey goo 40K".

I am wondering if it is worth going through the pain of having to learn how to model, convert and paint, and to find opponents. (Yeah, I still need to do all this!) Is 40K as hideously convoluted as it now seems? Can anyone provide an up to date list of essential rules, FAQs, supplements etc?

Thank you from a bewildered gamer!

You require:
Big Rule Book [probably want to own this, but depending on your store/playgroup you may be able to get by without one]
Chapter Approved [definitely can share this with friends; only need one copy to go around]
Your Codex [definitely need this]

You may also want, but do not require:
Associated PA book
Associated Vigilus book
Associated FW: IA book [soon to be replaced, stay tuned]

This is not actually that complex, I feel. As much as I hate campaign splatbooks; it's by no means hard to manage [she says, carrying a cardboard box of like a dozen books for her 5 armies to the store]

You can then add Allied Detachments from aligned factions, referred to as "soup". This would be, for example, if you have one detachment of Death Guard, one detachment of CSM, and one detachment of Daemons. Each allied detachment also needs:
It's Codex
and may want
it's Associated PA book
it's Associated FW:IA book [note that, for Chaos, there's only one FW:IA book. I think IMPERIAL is the only alliance that could have 2 IA books in the same army]


I would recommend generally sticking with a single army until your collection is of adequate size, and then growing the second army as an ally to the first if they're aligned. Especially with 9e coming up about to hit soup with a massive hammer.
Chaos are slightly the exception, where mixing Daemons with another Chaos subfaction is pretty normal and expected; but you can usually get away with just a little bit of Daemons, or Daemons just for summoning before you go all in on the Daemons book and faction.

Thanks guys, the support is much appreciated. I decided that since I already own a ton of stuff from over the years, and I have plenty of time on my hands thanks to Covid, I have started trying to put models together. I've found that Goonhammer has a tactics site which also details the books you'll need to play Chaos, and my gripes are kind of justified, as they also mention how many books and supplements you need. Goonhammer also doesn't keep linking to moronic meme pages that make no sense,like 1D4Chan.

To be honest the main problem is having to assemble, build and paint models, as I have never seriously done this and it's become a mental block. I have learned loads about paint stripping etc, but am struggling with larger models and metal models in particular: I am finding it IMPOSSIBLE to glue these together, the bits just do not stick when using the appropriate glue. This is maddeningly frustrating - how can glue only work sometimes??

Also I cannot get formerly cheap and plentiful stuff to strip the paint from old Ebay purchases (I have seen dettol and IPA 99.9% strongly recommended above everything else), due to the pandemic making these into precious commodities.

Number one hurdle before learning rules, finding opponents etc, is being able to GLUE SOME OF THESE FETHING MODELS TOGETHER!

For bigger plastic models, you may want to hold pieces together using rubber bands or small hobby clamps (buy online or in Hobbycraft or model shops) while the plastic cement dries.

Metal models are notorious for poor adhesion and the weight of the pieces. For large metal components, use a pin vice to drill holes in both pieces that will hold a pin of brass rod or paperclip. Makes the superglue join much stronger, or helps to hold an araldite join in place. See also: rubber bands and clamps above.

Baking soda dries superglue almost instantly into a rock-hard bond.

I tend to use small pieces of milliput epoxy putty. When mixed with superglue, the mix becomes hot and dries hard quickly. It's also very sticky, and can still be sculpted with a toothpick. Mixing milliput or baking soda superglue bonds with pinning makes for tough joints.

For stripping, Biostrip 20 or Wilko's paint stripper (supposedly the same stuff). Very good and much less messy, smelly or hazardous than Dettol or alcohol. Buy on ebay or in Wilkinson's shops.

What glue are you using? For metal models you want superglue (i.e. cyanoacrylate) or maybe epoxy resin for bigger stuff. The GW plastic glue will *only* work on the plastic kits, it works by melting the plastic together.

Assuming you're getting that right, then you want to look into cleaning the surfaces of the joint, scuffing them up slightly to increase the surface area of the joint, or possibly even pinning (as described by Momotaro).

Hi everyone, thanks for your replies.

I have been using citadel plastic glue and ordinary superglue - I will probably change the latter for Gorilla Glue. I have re-equipped with the right tools for the job: wirecutter, model clipper, knife, etc, with a model clamp on the way. I researched how to work with resin since resin is horrible to glue to plastic. I am concerned that a number of items I purchased over the years may be recasts: I've got a number of combi-weapons sprues that are EXTREMELY fragile, and I think they are cheap resin.

The main focus now is to find out what kind of army I want to build and what I will need to add to it. So far I own:

57 Chaos Marines
5 Chaos Sorcerors inc. 2 Death Guard ones
Lord of Contagion
Terminators
3 DG terminators that I am proxying as Deathshrouds for when I get Mortarion
3 7-man Plague Marine squads
6 Chaos Bikers
20 Kings of War ghouls for Nurgle melee cultists
20 Mantic Corporation marines for Slaanesh ranged cultists (was going for the organised militia/blood pact feel, but my army is Nurgle and Slaanesh, so)
40 Poxwalkers
40 Plaguebearers
3 Beasts of Nurgle
3 Fiends of Slaanesh
3 Chaos Spawn
3 Rhinos
3 Predators
3 Blight Drones
3 Blight Haulers
Various lesser daemons and Nurgle heralds
Multiple heavy, special and combi weapons

Is this any good to build as a fluffy army as opposed to a soul-destroying MSU nightmare?

Hi, you could check out You Tube for videos on assembling GW models. Combat Patrol is the 25 Power Level/500pt game size, should be easier to get an army together, they even suggest a Chaos Marine army list for you.

Fluffy is as fluffy does. The new edition seems to be encouraging fluff with its Crusade campaign system, where you build your own story/army through game results. Pick a HQ choice and a Troops choice, build and paint them, then worry about the rest. It’s not even critical what you arm them with, just get _ something _ together, and go from there. Don’t sweat it. It will be fine.

I will say this, as an old vet to a noob. The game is worth it, I still always have fun when I play, which hasn't been recently because of nurgles rot everywhere.

That said, I'd highly suggest to stick to one faction and just work on getting your army ready to go and then getting opponents when you can. It's very much worth it with the right friends and right attitude.

That should help avoid a good deal of bloat and madness and help you just, enjoy the game. So yeah. I think it's worth it. Even with my large list of issues I take with the company, but all these issues they can fix as soon as they want to.

For metal models, I use green stuff to "glue" them together, as the parts more often than not don't fit properly. Just press parts together and remove any visible green with a knife.
Also make sure you wash them properly with soap before attempting to glue/prime them as they tend to be covered in oil from the molding process.

For your collection, I would suggest getting just Codex CSM first to and branching into Death Guard and Daemons and the correspoding psychic awakening books as you get the hang of your army.
Codex CSM has rules for almost all your marines, including plague marines, as well as for many daemons you can summon in.

Not read the whole thread but it sounds like you probably got too much too quickly. Pack most of it away for now, write up a 500pts monolist and go from there. Then as you get more comfortable with the rules and game then add more over time, sticking with a mono-list until you know how the game plays really well before adding additional factions.

Also on building metal models:
1. Don't over glue it. A few dots is usually enough, over applying super glue will make it take longer to set

2. Score points of contact with a craft knife before putting them together, especially on flat surfaces. This gives the glue more points of contact to hold together.

3. Be patient. Hold pieces together for a few minutes before letting them go and try not to move. When parts shift while drying it breaks the glue bonds that are forming and you'll have to start over. Once they're staying together go away and leave it for a while.

4. After the glue has set I like to put a few spots of glue over the join to let it sink into gaps and recesses to make the join a bit more solid.

5. Green stuff pins can help with small areas you don't feel confident drilling actual pins into. Put super glue down, put on a dot/sausage of green stuff (based on how big the area is) onto the glue then put super glue on the green stuff and jam on the next part of the model.

6. If you're really impatient you can put a couple drops of water onto the super glue to make it dry in seconds. The downside to this is that the bonds are more brittle and it'll break easier.

Thanks everyone, the tips and encouragement are really helping.

I accrued most of this stuff over the last ten years, and kept getting put off assembling/playing for various reasons. Some will probably need to be sold. The intention is to eventually run Nurgle and Slaanesh as it's a combination I haven't seen before and Slaanesh needs some love (literally).

The idea of picking a 500pt army is really good. Smaller games make each model important (which is good considering how much they cost) and it sounds like GW is finally going to support them.

Do people have issues with using non-GW parts? Many of my special weapons, helmets, backpacks etc come from Maxmini, and I am planning to buy tank weapons, turrets and upgrades from Puppetswar, and I have magnets to swap them out. These aftermarket parts are extremely good for the money and when Troll Trader gets Maxmini products back on the market, I would recommend these to everyone.

As a rule of thumb, a unit should be identifiable as whatever it is supposed to be. Most places and groups have no issues with allowing pretty much anything that looks cool unless you are trying to field your warmachine army as 40k army or similar half-assed attempts at proxying.

Some GW stores enforce a 50% GW parts policy which your additional bits should not crosse. So barring some extremely idiotic shop managers, you should be fine.

I use Mr. Clean & a "Hard" toothbrush to clean painted minis. Soak them for 12 hours and wear gloves. It will dry & crack your skin. Toothpick to get in the deep spots.

As for the glue, how much water in the air effects the curing. If the glue is not setting, I breathe heavy near the join, and the extra moisture helps the reaction. I use superglue for everything.

dryfit the join before gluing, don't be scared to drill pinholes, or score lines for greenstuff or more glue.

Dear OP,

I would pick one faction, which ever one you have the most points for so probably Death Guard or Chaos Marines since both have overlapping units, and stick to that at first.build up 500-1000 point armies and play a few games on a 4'x4'. From there add your other units as needed and build up your strategy from there. Souping up Death Guard, Chaos Marines, and Daemons if a big chore and I don't recommend starting that way.after you pick one faction to focus on the supplements you need diminishes greatly:

Death Guard: codex, FAQs, Psychic Awakening: War of Spiders
Black Legion Chaos Marines: chaos codex v2, Vigilus Ablaze, FAQs
All other chaos legions: chaos codex v2, psychic Awakening Faith and Fury, FAQs
Daemons: codex, Psychic Awakening Engine War, FAQs

Hi!
you may want to consider getting Battlescribe. Just make sure that you update it regularly as the community is generally good at updating rules and point costs in the app. Just stick with it, as using it until you are used to how the app works feels like butting your head on a wall.

Also, if you have too much, consider selling or trading some models to focus your collection. Dakka has an excellent trading forum that I use regularly, though ones like Bartertown have an automatic feedback feature that helps with separating the reputable traders from the scofflaws.

I think you need to find yourself a FLGS. Depending on where you live, Local can have a variable defintion. Just keep in mind that with COVID there isn't much chance of getting games any time soon, a miniature game like this is one of the better things to have right now as you and your opponent can use your own dice and be socially distant across a table.

Lastly, don't be in a hurry to get rid of anything. While using a single force can teach you how to use them optimally, as someone who has a massive primary force, the ability to bring a different list to each engagement allows a flexibility that I think is overlooked too much.

 NoPoet wrote:
Greetings Dakkarians. Yes I do think that sounds cool, and yes I did just make it up.

I finally bit the bullet and decided to get into 40K 8th ed. Just in time for the 9th ed to be announced. I own a fairly decent collection of Death Guard, Heretic Astartes and Daemons of Chaos. My intent was to run a Nugle/Slaanesh themed army. However, it's been years since I last assembled a model, and I'm overwhelmed. I'm looking for some reassurance that it's still worth getting into 40K.

First of all, there are an utterly bewildering number of rules, units etc spread across multiple sources. I have three Codices already; I need to refer to multiple FAQs (one for each of the Codices and at least one for 40K); I need Chapter Approved 2019 (and its FAQ!); now apparently I need a feth-load of supplements like Vigilus Ablaze, Psychic Awakening, Wrath and Rapture? What in the name of Tzeentch's mad savant happened here? On top of this, each unit now has its own datasheet, each of which has its own special rules and can appear in multiple books. And when I search for army tactics eg on 1d4chan, they clutter it up with units, wargear and tactics from multiple other sources including Forge World!

Oh, and if I want to use all my Chaos stuff? Well Chaos isn't just Chaos, of course. They are multiple separate armies despite crossing over into each others' codices. This is a beginner's trap, because if I want to use Plague Marines, Bloat Drones and Plaguebearers in one detachment, I lose access to about three hundred special rules, despite these all being in the Death Guard army list. And if I want to have three detachments - one from each of my Chaos armies - then I need to have all the stratagems and special rules for each army!

RIP "streamlined" 40K, hello "grey goo 40K".

I am wondering if it is worth going through the pain of having to learn how to model, convert and paint, and to find opponents. (Yeah, I still need to do all this!) Is 40K as hideously convoluted as it now seems? Can anyone provide an up to date list of essential rules, FAQs, supplements etc?

Thank you from a bewildered gamer!

Well you're a bit off here. Let me share my 2 cents.

First of all, never use "1d4Chan" for strategy A lot of stuff on there is just plain wrong, perfect scenarios, or is outright out of date.

There are a lot of rule books, but you don't need them all.

I play Black Legion, and the only thing I use is my CSM Codex II. The "rules" in VA are really lack luster and not really needed to enjoy the game. There is nothing in Wrath and Rapture, Blood of Baal, or really any of the PA books that applies to me, so I don't need to use them. I think you'll find the same true, for whatever army you play.

Also, a lot of people tend to forget about Open Play. Open Play is viable if you can find an opponent to play with you, and you don't have to ad hear to any rules you don't want to. So you can run your Slannesh/Nurgle fun all day long.

9th is more 8.5, it's mostly clean up and all of the codexes remain legal. So you won't have to worry too much about that.

People don't "forget" about open play, it's just not a good way to play. It's major downside is that it doesn't work well unless both players have similar expectations from a game and know how to implement those, or one of them is a veteran setting up a teaching game. Neither works for our OP.

I also heavily disagree that 9th is just an 8.5 - it shakes up just as many, if not more things than the editions that went before it. The only difference seems to be that they actually keep the lessons learned instead of throwing out the baby with the bathwater.