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Made in gb
Fresh-Faced New User




Hi there,

I'm a returning 40k player, played when 6th edition was about but I was a lot younger back then and didn't really know what I was doing. Swapped my main army around too much and had a tendency to splurge all my money on cool stuff all at once instead of slowly building up a force to work on bit by bit

I'm really interested in getting back into the hobby now that I'm older and have more money in general, and I know for sure I want to play a mixed Eldar Harlequins army

My only problem is trying to figure out what troops I should buy first with around a £100 maximum budget, although I'm not looking to spend all of it at once as I'd like to slowly build up my resources and work only on a few things at a time

I've read up on the eldar codex so I have a basic understanding of what's going on but I still don't fully understand the new 8th edition rules in terms of point distribution when army building

I'm focusing more on a themed army than a competitive one, but I'm still trying to figure out what that theme is. As a result I'm looking for a solid backbone that all eldar/harlequin armies should have e.g. a solid base of troops/HQ that gives me something to work off. What are my options in this regard? I've also created my own craftworld that works in a very similar way to the Alaitoc. Eldar on the outer rims of the galaxy who have much closer ties with the other races, except this craftworld has been forgotten by the Aeldari and left to gather dust. They continue to survive through similar means to the Alaitoc, so my favourite units fluff wise would be rangers, corsairs etc. Any of the outcast pirate types. I've yet to design a colour scheme

My main focus of the army is that of speed and versatility. I like to have a decent number of models on the board but not too many, a nice middle ground between elite and hoarde. Planning on getting my close combat potency through the Harlequins. I really like bikes and vehicles, as well as the bigger more smoothly designed troops

So, where in terms of purchasing is the best place to start?
   
Made in us
Stealthy Warhound Titan Princeps




Right now?

Eldar are in a weird spot and getting weirder, and unfortunately more irrelevant. If GW eventually pony up and do something with the Ynnari thread or go for a major craftworld revision after 9th emerges into the world, then we'll have to see what state they're in.

That said, if you're for sure set on Harlequins in the mix, I'd start with them. They're more cohesive and updated (both models and ruleswise), while the craftworld side of things has neglected pretty much everything that isn't wraith, flyers or tanks.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/06/30 16:16:27


Efficiency is the highest virtue. 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Honestly, I would just wait a month. 9th edition is hitting and it may change the dynamic of what you want to do. One thing that will suit is the ability to spend CPs to bring units from reserves which would fit your theme as outcasts arriving on the battlefield from the webway etc.

If you're set on at least having some harlequins, get a troupe box (6 models) and a starweaver to transport them. This will give you a troupe master (HQ) and 5 infantry, all of which cn ride in the transport.

As for Craftworld, it's still unknown how they will operate so I would just wait and see.
   
Made in gb
Fresh-Faced New User




Damn, that's a real shame. I don't really know if there's any other armies I'd want to play and as much as I love harlequins, there's only so many units to choose from. Eldar being neglected aside, how are the Ynnari? I'm also quite used to playing stuff that gets neglected in video games etc, so I'm open to starting regardless of how irrelevant they are. If I started with harlequins and waited to see how the Eldar fare in 9th edition could that also be a smart thing to do?

If there really is no hope, my second favourite army is necrons. I'm also a fan of space wolves, blood Angel's and tau if any of those are close to the Eldar style of fast precise play
   
Made in us
Da Head Honcho Boss Grot





So, in order to run two armies together, you will need to run them in separate 'detachments'. That means, in my opinion, it makes the most sense to start from one faction, and then once you've completed ~500pts or so, move to the other.

Harlequins are actually quite cheap to start, thanks to the fact that their main commander unit (The troupe master) actually comes in the basic box along with their basic troop unit.

Let me pull up the ol' british prices here. Assuming that you're working off of a 100...um...I'm gonna say your currency is called "Shillings?" I've totally forgotten. 100 weird cursive L's, you're looking at:

Codex: Harlequins. 20.
1 Harlequin Troupe+Troupe Master. 25.
1 Starweaver. 25
1 box of Skyweavers. 27.50

No telling where point values are going to end up in the new edition of the game, but that nets you about 350 points. You could get more points by starting with the "Start collecting: Craftworld Eldar" box and their codex, but that would get you a very slow, very elite army, which is the opposite of what your stated goal was.

Harlequins are nice because, barring the Death Jester, none of their boxes are less than ~85-100 points, you pretty much always are getting a decent chunk of an army buying a box.
   
Made in us
[DCM]
The World Killer.




The best State-Texas

KingChub wrote:
Damn, that's a real shame. I don't really know if there's any other armies I'd want to play and as much as I love harlequins, there's only so many units to choose from. Eldar being neglected aside, how are the Ynnari? I'm also quite used to playing stuff that gets neglected in video games etc, so I'm open to starting regardless of how irrelevant they are. If I started with harlequins and waited to see how the Eldar fare in 9th edition could that also be a smart thing to do?

If there really is no hope, my second favourite army is necrons. I'm also a fan of space wolves, blood Angel's and tau if any of those are close to the Eldar style of fast precise play


Ynnari are not in a great spot right now.

With 9th edition right around the corner, it's really hard to give any concrete advice. All the codex's will be receiving updates at some point and everything could be change.

Necrons on the other hand, are getting a huge range refresh and are the "Big Bad" for 9th edition. They will be one of the first, if not the first army to get a new codex. The Necron range is also almost all in plastic.

Necrons are a much different style of play than Eldar and Harlequins though.


4000+
6000+ Order. Unity. Obedience.
Thousand Sons 4000+ 
   
Made in gb
[DCM]
Scheming Archon





Between the sacred silence and sleep.

If you love Quins, play them, I doubt they will be useless.

On the other hand if you are a Necron fan, then thwy would be an excellent pick.

Kabal of the Mon-keigh's Paw - 2500 pts

"Death is only a concern if you're both weak enough to be killed and dumb enough not to arrange your own resurrection." PM713
 
   
Made in us
Da Head Honcho Boss Grot





I would 100% recommend going for Harlequins+CWE over Ynnari. Ynnari have proven to be an INSANELY volatile investment over the last couple editions and it's clear GW has no clear plan as to what they're doing with them.

IMO, the statements regarding eldar being "definitely terrible" in the new edition are pretty overblown. I do think that from what we know right now, Harlequins are probably looking a little bit better in general while there are some rules changes that CWE really does not like, particularly units like Guardians, Howling Banshees and all the flying vehicles that can no longer fall back and shoot.

Harlequin vehicles and bikers are actually surprisingly effective in melee, and "charge forward and tie up the harlequins" is typically not what you'd call a "winning strategy." With more terrain to hide behind, solid content from Psychic Awakening and the removal of rules like Overwatch, I think you could collect Harlequins for a good long while before starting to need to bring in eldar allies to spice things up.
   
Made in gb
Fresh-Faced New User




the_scotsman wrote:
So, in order to run two armies together, you will need to run them in separate 'detachments'. That means, in my opinion, it makes the most sense to start from one faction, and then once you've completed ~500pts or so, move to the other.

Harlequins are actually quite cheap to start, thanks to the fact that their main commander unit (The troupe master) actually comes in the basic box along with their basic troop unit.

Let me pull up the ol' british prices here. Assuming that you're working off of a 100...um...I'm gonna say your currency is called "Shillings?" I've totally forgotten. 100 weird cursive L's, you're looking at:

Codex: Harlequins. 20.
1 Harlequin Troupe+Troupe Master. 25.
1 Starweaver. 25
1 box of Skyweavers. 27.50

No telling where point values are going to end up in the new edition of the game, but that nets you about 350 points. You could get more points by starting with the "Start collecting: Craftworld Eldar" box and their codex, but that would get you a very slow, very elite army, which is the opposite of what your stated goal was.

Harlequins are nice because, barring the Death Jester, none of their boxes are less than ~85-100 points, you pretty much always are getting a decent chunk of an army buying a box.



Haha, British Currency is Pounds although Shillings would be much more entertaining

This is some great advice, and I think I'm going to start off with a decent point number of Harlequins (will probably build up to around 500) to kick start everything off, and wait to see what happens to Eldar. That way I can also spend that month taking my time painting and finding a colour scheme I really like and making the Harlequins look really good

I'm assuming the Troupe master comes with the Troupe box?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
the_scotsman wrote:
I would 100% recommend going for Harlequins+CWE over Ynnari. Ynnari have proven to be an INSANELY volatile investment over the last couple editions and it's clear GW has no clear plan as to what they're doing with them.

IMO, the statements regarding eldar being "definitely terrible" in the new edition are pretty overblown. I do think that from what we know right now, Harlequins are probably looking a little bit better in general while there are some rules changes that CWE really does not like, particularly units like Guardians, Howling Banshees and all the flying vehicles that can no longer fall back and shoot.

Harlequin vehicles and bikers are actually surprisingly effective in melee, and "charge forward and tie up the harlequins" is typically not what you'd call a "winning strategy." With more terrain to hide behind, solid content from Psychic Awakening and the removal of rules like Overwatch, I think you could collect Harlequins for a good long while before starting to need to bring in eldar allies to spice things up.


That's good to know. I definitely will be adding Eldar in at some point as I don't want to play a fully close combat army and would like some powerful shooting as well. Are there any Eldar units that will always be good/reliable? I know guardians are the foot soldier fodder style troops and dire avengers have always been a good choice if I'm not mistaken?

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/06/30 17:02:09


 
   
Made in us
Da Head Honcho Boss Grot





Well, it is worth noting that Harlequins are by no means pure melee. Their typical playstyle is to load up in transports, hide turn 1 however they can, and turn 2 they shift into their full game strategy which is typically vehicles bikes and certain characters running around securing victory points and shooting while the troupes, troupe masters and solitaires do as much damage in melee as possible.

Eldar Flyers are typically very good, Shining spears have been good all edition, the shooty aspect warriors like hawks and dark reapers aren't bad, Farseers are always awesome. Eldar troops aren't great, which is why I'd advise taking them as allies in a detachment that doesn't rquire troops choices. Dire avengers included, they just don't do enough to justify the level of support you need for them to actually compete.

With harlequins, there's a definite difference that you can feel in the game in your level of both safety and threat buying them a transport. With Dire Avengers, you buy them a wave serpent and feel like "Why am I wasting all these points protecting this crappy infantry unit that dies to a single unit shooting at it?"

The troupe master is the sixth member of the basic troupe box. He graduated from squad leader to independent character in the last edition, which is very nice.
   
Made in gb
Wicked Warp Spider





what ^ they said

Ynnari are so bad I cant even blame the weaker rules chimps, you simply cant come up with such awfullness by accident

also if you are considering harlies pick up wd 454, has the add-on rules for them ( or they may be elsewhere on interwebs)

"AND YET YOU ACT AS IF THERE IS SOME IDEAL ORDER IN THE WORLD, AS IF THERE IS SOME...SOME RIGHTNESS IN THE UNIVERSE BY WHICH IT MAY BE JUDGED." 
   
Made in gb
Fresh-Faced New User




the_scotsman wrote:
Well, it is worth noting that Harlequins are by no means pure melee. Their typical playstyle is to load up in transports, hide turn 1 however they can, and turn 2 they shift into their full game strategy which is typically vehicles bikes and certain characters running around securing victory points and shooting while the troupes, troupe masters and solitaires do as much damage in melee as possible.

Eldar Flyers are typically very good, Shining spears have been good all edition, the shooty aspect warriors like hawks and dark reapers aren't bad, Farseers are always awesome. Eldar troops aren't great, which is why I'd advise taking them as allies in a detachment that doesn't rquire troops choices. Dire avengers included, they just don't do enough to justify the level of support you need for them to actually compete.

With harlequins, there's a definite difference that you can feel in the game in your level of both safety and threat buying them a transport. With Dire Avengers, you buy them a wave serpent and feel like "Why am I wasting all these points protecting this crappy infantry unit that dies to a single unit shooting at it?"

The troupe master is the sixth member of the basic troupe box. He graduated from squad leader to independent character in the last edition, which is very nice.


So maybe a harlequin army with eldar support is the better way to go? Either way I'll be starting with Harlequins. Also you mention that by taking them as allies in a detachment means I dont require troops choices. What does this actually mean? Sorry I'm still a bit lacking knowledge on this.
   
Made in gb
Wicked Warp Spider





I think what Scots is saying is if you do add in an allied detachment of craftworlders try to go for one that doesnt have a mandatory troop requirement, so airwing, spearhead (?) etc that cover the units like flyers and heavy support that harlies lack

"AND YET YOU ACT AS IF THERE IS SOME IDEAL ORDER IN THE WORLD, AS IF THERE IS SOME...SOME RIGHTNESS IN THE UNIVERSE BY WHICH IT MAY BE JUDGED." 
   
Made in us
Da Head Honcho Boss Grot





KingChub wrote:
the_scotsman wrote:
Well, it is worth noting that Harlequins are by no means pure melee. Their typical playstyle is to load up in transports, hide turn 1 however they can, and turn 2 they shift into their full game strategy which is typically vehicles bikes and certain characters running around securing victory points and shooting while the troupes, troupe masters and solitaires do as much damage in melee as possible.

Eldar Flyers are typically very good, Shining spears have been good all edition, the shooty aspect warriors like hawks and dark reapers aren't bad, Farseers are always awesome. Eldar troops aren't great, which is why I'd advise taking them as allies in a detachment that doesn't rquire troops choices. Dire avengers included, they just don't do enough to justify the level of support you need for them to actually compete.

With harlequins, there's a definite difference that you can feel in the game in your level of both safety and threat buying them a transport. With Dire Avengers, you buy them a wave serpent and feel like "Why am I wasting all these points protecting this crappy infantry unit that dies to a single unit shooting at it?"

The troupe master is the sixth member of the basic troupe box. He graduated from squad leader to independent character in the last edition, which is very nice.


So maybe a harlequin army with eldar support is the better way to go? Either way I'll be starting with Harlequins. Also you mention that by taking them as allies in a detachment means I dont require troops choices. What does this actually mean? Sorry I'm still a bit lacking knowledge on this.


in warhammer, your army is organized into Detachments by faction. An example of this is a Patrol detachment: 1 Troop minimum, 1 HQ minimum, and then 2 optional slots of each type (Troops, HQ, Heavy, etc). Ordinarily, a patrol costs you 2 Command Points, but if you have your army's overall commander in a detachment that requires you to take Troops, then that detachment is free.

There are detachments that only require a particular specialized type (For example, 3 Fast Attack units and 1 HQ). Those always cost you command points.

How I'm advising you maybe structure your army would be to take a core detachment of harlequins (A patrol or a Battalion, depending on how many Harlequin Troupes you end up with) and make that the free one you get with your warlord, then add on a specialized detachment of Eldar, with say 3 Fast Attack choices plus a Farseer HQ.

All this is pretty far down the line. Basically, if you start with 1 Troupe and 1 Troupe Master, you're in a Patrol detachment already, and pretty much don't have to worry about detachments until I'd say about the 1,000 point level, as long as you don't go past the limits of the patrol which is 2 of any given slot.
   
Made in gb
Fresh-Faced New User




the_scotsman wrote:
KingChub wrote:
the_scotsman wrote:
Well, it is worth noting that Harlequins are by no means pure melee. Their typical playstyle is to load up in transports, hide turn 1 however they can, and turn 2 they shift into their full game strategy which is typically vehicles bikes and certain characters running around securing victory points and shooting while the troupes, troupe masters and solitaires do as much damage in melee as possible.

Eldar Flyers are typically very good, Shining spears have been good all edition, the shooty aspect warriors like hawks and dark reapers aren't bad, Farseers are always awesome. Eldar troops aren't great, which is why I'd advise taking them as allies in a detachment that doesn't rquire troops choices. Dire avengers included, they just don't do enough to justify the level of support you need for them to actually compete.

With harlequins, there's a definite difference that you can feel in the game in your level of both safety and threat buying them a transport. With Dire Avengers, you buy them a wave serpent and feel like "Why am I wasting all these points protecting this crappy infantry unit that dies to a single unit shooting at it?"

The troupe master is the sixth member of the basic troupe box. He graduated from squad leader to independent character in the last edition, which is very nice.


So maybe a harlequin army with eldar support is the better way to go? Either way I'll be starting with Harlequins. Also you mention that by taking them as allies in a detachment means I dont require troops choices. What does this actually mean? Sorry I'm still a bit lacking knowledge on this.


in warhammer, your army is organized into Detachments by faction. An example of this is a Patrol detachment: 1 Troop minimum, 1 HQ minimum, and then 2 optional slots of each type (Troops, HQ, Heavy, etc). Ordinarily, a patrol costs you 2 Command Points, but if you have your army's overall commander in a detachment that requires you to take Troops, then that detachment is free.

There are detachments that only require a particular specialized type (For example, 3 Fast Attack units and 1 HQ). Those always cost you command points.

How I'm advising you maybe structure your army would be to take a core detachment of harlequins (A patrol or a Battalion, depending on how many Harlequin Troupes you end up with) and make that the free one you get with your warlord, then add on a specialized detachment of Eldar, with say 3 Fast Attack choices plus a Farseer HQ.

All this is pretty far down the line. Basically, if you start with 1 Troupe and 1 Troupe Master, you're in a Patrol detachment already, and pretty much don't have to worry about detachments until I'd say about the 1,000 point level, as long as you don't go past the limits of the patrol which is 2 of any given slot.


So essentially I'm making it so my initial harlequin troops don't cost CP as Harlequins are more expensive points-wise, making it a more cost effective army by having the cheaper eldar detachment use up cp?
   
 
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