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Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Thinking about building a guard army to play against my sons orks at home. We play incursion sized games so looking for the cheapest way to build 750-1000 points that I can add onto later if I end up liking the play style.Would picking up a Defence force box and a start collecting get me close or two defense forces Or two start collecting be a better way to go? How about mixing in the Tempestus start collecting.

As I’m totally new to the army I don’t know how mixing and matching the different troops work say jungle vs cadian? They mix and match ok or that complicate things? Also it looks like they can take primaris psykers for an HQ, That a common thing? I would like to be able to add psychic support of some kind because my main army has none. Thanks!

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/09/16 14:38:11


 
   
Made in us
Cog in the Machine





I'd probably start with three start collecting boxes, and maybe convert/proxy one or two of the commissars to company commanders. That would get you a couple infrantry HQ's, three infantry squads, a heavy weapons squad, and three leman russ/tank commanders. If you want psykers, I would then purchase the 3-pack of wyrdvane psykers ($15 for 3 on the GW store) and play them as astropaths. You could say the army is cadian, catachan, or whatever you like; you normally would not want to mix/match regiments, including tempestus (which is really a different army subset) in my opinion.
   
Made in us
Monster-Slaying Daemonhunter





Grimlineman wrote:
Thinking about building a guard army to play against my sons orks at home. We play incursion sized games so looking for the cheapest way to build 750-1000 points that I can add onto later if I end up liking the play style.Would picking up a Defence force box and a start collecting get me close or two defense forces Or two start collecting be a better way to go? How about mixing in the Tempestus start collecting.

As I’m totally new to the army I don’t know how mixing and matching the different troops work say jungle vs cadian? They mix and match ok or that complicate things? Also it looks like they can take primaris psykers for an HQ, That a common thing? I would like to be able to add psychic support of some kind because my main army has none. Thanks!


Consider what you want and what you're going to be able to use from the box:
For the Imperial Guard,
The Start Collecting is priced $5 less than the price of 1 tank [59] + 1 infantry section [36]. Note that the heavy weapons crew is only usable as a squad upgrade until you have 3 of them.
The Defense Force box is priced $65 less than the price of 1 CCS, 2 infantry, 1 heavy weapons battery, 1 tank, and 1 chimera.

So as long as you're going to make use of any 2 of a Chimera, CCS, or Heavy Weapons Battery, you should buy the Defense Force box. If you're not looking to include any of those in your army, or are only looking to include 1 of those, then you should buy a Start Collecting.

As a new player starting Imperial Guard, you will want at least the CCS and the Heavy Weapons Battery. The Chimera is your call. Ergo, I would go 1 Defense Force and 2 Start Collecting, or 2x Defense Force if your like Chimerae.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/09/16 15:05:33


Guardsmen, hear me! Cadia may lie in ruin, but her proud people do not! For each brother and sister who gave their lives to Him as martyrs, we will reap a vengeance fiftyfold! Cadia may be no more, but will never be forgotten; our foes shall tremble in fear at the name, for their doom shall come from the barrels of Cadian guns, fired by Cadian hands! Forward, for vengeance and retribution, in His name and the names of our fallen comrades! 
   
Made in us
[MOD]
Imperial Guard Landspeeder Pilot




On moon miranda.

Grimlineman wrote:
Thinking about building a guard army to play against my sons orks at home. We play incursion sized games so looking for the cheapest way to build 750-1000 points that I can add onto later if I end up liking the play style.Would picking up a Defence force box and a start collecting get me close or two defense forces Or two start collecting be a better way to go? How about mixing in the Tempestus start collecting.

As I’m totally new to the army I don’t know how mixing and matching the different troops work say jungle vs cadian? They mix and match ok or that complicate things? Also it looks like they can take primaris psykers for an HQ, That a common thing? I would like to be able to add psychic support of some kind because my main army has none. Thanks!
Others hit the points about starters, with respect to mixing and matching the different regiment models, really it's more about how you build the list. If you're running different detachments with different rules you'll have to pay close attention to how you build the army, but the rules don't preclude you from just running them all as the same Regiment regardless of looks either. Just be sure your opponent knows what's going on and all should be fine. Yes you can take Primaris psykers as an HQ, they're good support characters, but they should generally not be your only HQ option, you'll want a CCS or TC before you'll want to take a PS.

IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT.

Heavy Gear Painting Log, Northern Guard, Southern Republican Army, and Terrain
The correct pronunciation is Imperial Guard and Stormtroopers, "Astra Militarum" and "Tempestus Scions" are something you'll find at Hogwarts.  
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Does the defense box give you an HQ option? Looking at it the character looks like his part of the CCS. I don’t mind the chimera they looking like a good option of shuttling the fragile troops to objectives. So I’m thinking two of them. But maybe one Defence sand one or two start collecting is the way I to go to have a box HQ.

I guess looking at it in battle scribe CCS leader is an HQ choice and you have to take it to run the squad? Thanks again I know these are all questions that are answered in the codex but I haven’t picked it up yet.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/09/16 15:36:03


 
   
Made in eg
[MOD]
Keeper of the Adeptus Arbites Flame






Cairo, Egypt

First off, good pick. Orks vs Guard are one of my favorite match ups. Unlike fighting Marines every one of the weapons can hurt the other side. It can be really tense.

If you're looking to save money you may want to look at other manufacturers like Wargames Atlantic or Mantic, but if you're just starting out going with GW might be best.

You might throw in a Start Collecting Scions box. Deep striking Scions or riding in a Taurox can give IG much needed mobility and make for a more fun game than hanging back and shooting.

 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




 Kid_Kyoto wrote:



You might throw in a Start Collecting Scions box. Deep striking Scions or riding in a Taurox can give IG much needed mobility and make for a more fun game than hanging back and shooting.


That’s part of the reason I made the post I wasn’t sure if scions could fit in the army with out taking a separate detachment. I like to run only one So wasn’t sure if their rules/tactics meshed together.


And yes orks be guard sounds like a very fun match up good to know.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/09/16 18:31:27


 
   
Made in eg
[MOD]
Keeper of the Adeptus Arbites Flame






Cairo, Egypt

Scions are troops in the Guard list, AFAIK there's no disadvantage in taking them.

BUT I've actually not played since 7th so someone should confirm.

 
   
Made in ca
Ragin' Ork Dreadnought





 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
Scions are troops in the Guard list, AFAIK there's no disadvantage in taking them.

BUT I've actually not played since 7th so someone should confirm.


Scions are indeed troops, and you can take 5 man squads so they're pretty ideal versus being forced to take a 10 man like the usual infantry squads.

My milkshakes bring all the boys to the yard and they're like, hurr darry darr.


My suggestion to you is to get married, if you have a good wife you'll be happy, if you have a bad wife you'll become a philosopher. 
   
Made in za
Regular Dakkanaut



South Africa

Grimlineman wrote:


As I’m totally new to the army I don’t know how mixing and matching the different troops work say jungle vs cadian? They mix and match ok or that complicate things?


In the same squad or in the same army?

My IG army has a ton of different troops in it. Praetorians, Cadians, plastic Cadians, Catachan, (space for plastic Catachan if I can rescue them), Vostroyan, Kasrkin, plastic Storm Troopers...

You don't even need a reason but making one up isn't hard. My Catachans are the old guard who've been on active duty forever. My Cadians are the new meat. The Praetorians are the honor guard.my Storm Troopers/Kasrkin are my Riflemen and my Vostroyan are Grenadiers.

Yeah I know Riflemen are light infantry and Kasrkin are not, that's what you get when you meld a separate collection into an army. It's amazing how homogenizing a layer of paint can be.

Because I assembled most of my army back in the day when HW were part of a normal squad my HW teams are a mix of everyone thrown together. What can you do.


KBK 
   
Made in us
Monster-Slaying Daemonhunter





Grimlineman wrote:
Does the defense box give you an HQ option? Looking at it the character looks like his part of the CCS. I don’t mind the chimera they looking like a good option of shuttling the fragile troops to objectives. So I’m thinking two of them. But maybe one Defence sand one or two start collecting is the way I to go to have a box HQ.

I guess looking at it in battle scribe CCS leader is an HQ choice and you have to take it to run the squad? Thanks again I know these are all questions that are answered in the codex but I haven’t picked it up yet.


Yes, the Defense Force comes with an HQ option [two if you chose to run the tank as a tank commander].

The Company Command Squad box comes with 5 models, one of which is the Company Commander, the HQ choice that you will rely on most. If you don't have one of them, you want one of them, basically until you have three of them.

Way back when, the entire CCS was a HQ choice, and the character came with his squad. Nowadays there's not much use for the command squads except as suicide plasma units because the actual HQ is separate from them.

Guardsmen, hear me! Cadia may lie in ruin, but her proud people do not! For each brother and sister who gave their lives to Him as martyrs, we will reap a vengeance fiftyfold! Cadia may be no more, but will never be forgotten; our foes shall tremble in fear at the name, for their doom shall come from the barrels of Cadian guns, fired by Cadian hands! Forward, for vengeance and retribution, in His name and the names of our fallen comrades! 
   
Made in ca
Boom! Leman Russ Commander





London, Ontario

Storm Troopers (Scions) have some limitations when building detachments with them. Effectively, if you have a detachment that includes something that's not a Scion, Commissar, or a *very* limited selection of other models, they can't benefit from their Chapter Tactic... which is pretty crap to be honest, unless they changed it and I didn't notice.

If you like combined arms forces, then Scions are your Vanguard forces. They can "deep strike" by deploying almost anywhere on the board. They don't need to spend points on transports, and don't need to worry about those transports being blown up before arriving. In my opinion, due to the expense of transports for very limited and uncertain gain, having Scions effectively invalidates all transport options (competitively speaking). If you're moving infantry to the mid-board, taking more infantry is more reliable / offensive output / faster (with Move, Move, Move! order) / capable of capturing objectives than adding transports... and past mid-board you really would be better off dropping Scioins instead of moving on land.

In terms of building towards, I strongly recommend 2-3 Leman Russ, a pair of Artillery (Basilisk or Manticore), 17 -27 Scions (including officers), and around 55 Infantry (including special guns, heavies, officers, Commissars, etc). That would take you up to around 1750 points (About 88 pl).

Taking on a 3-pack of Heavy weapon teams and buying some big bases... you can use standing guys to hold Missile Launchers. Lascannons and Autocannons can be built with the 6 kneeling models. Takes a *little* bit of extra work, but the length you can stretch the kit is VERY impressive. Add them into Infantry Squads.

You can buy Plasmagun packs from GW, 5 per pack... at least you used to be able to.


THAT SAID! If your group / LGS is ok with 3rd party models, I would strongly encourage you to go that route. You'll be picking them up by the handful. Go for cheap... the lasgunners are just wound markers for your special and heavy weapons.

My opinion is that transports are crap, but if you wind up with a Chimera, converting it into a Hellhound is very easy. Use the Heavy Flamer turret, cover the lasgun ports on the back and add some barrels for "fuel" for the Flamer Turret on the back, instead. Easy peasy, and while I'm not super-fond of them I do have one running around sometimes for the giggles.

   
Made in us
Stalwart Veteran Guard Sergeant




Grimlineman wrote:Does the defense box give you an HQ option? Looking at it the character looks like his part of the CCS. I don’t mind the chimera they looking like a good option of shuttling the fragile troops to objectives. So I’m thinking two of them. But maybe one Defence sand one or two start collecting is the way I to go to have a box HQ.

I guess looking at it in battle scribe CCS leader is an HQ choice and you have to take it to run the squad? Thanks again I know these are all questions that are answered in the codex but I haven’t picked it up yet.


You'll probably want at least 1 Command Squad set because it has the bits to make yourself a Company/Platoon Commander and all of the special weapons that Guard needs (though only 1 of each). The basic infantry set only has grenade launchers and flamers. If memory serves, the CCS set comes with 3 "officer" torsos, so you could theoretically build several officers for your army right out the box (you might need to borrow a chain sword/las pistol out of the basic infantry set, but that comes with extras of those).

Grimlineman wrote:
 Kid_Kyoto wrote:



You might throw in a Start Collecting Scions box. Deep striking Scions or riding in a Taurox can give IG much needed mobility and make for a more fun game than hanging back and shooting.


That’s part of the reason I made the post I wasn’t sure if scions could fit in the army with out taking a separate detachment. I like to run only one So wasn’t sure if their rules/tactics meshed together.


And yes orks be guard sounds like a very fun match up good to know.


One thing with Scions is that they don't get doctrines if mixed with other types of units. They do not turn off the doctrine however, they just don't get theirs. Usually best to run Stormtroopers as their own detachment for that reason alone, but they are perfectly usable, especially at a casual level, in a normal detachment.

The big thing with the Scion box is do you like the Taurox. It is kind of an ugly truck but if you can live with it the set does give you what you need for: 1 Commissar, 1 vehicle that will play differently from the Leman Russ or Chimera (and can be built as either Taurox or Taurox Prime, or magnetized so you can play as either depending on your mood), and then 10 Scions, which you can run as either 1 squad of 10, 2 squads of 5, or 1 squad of 5, 1 Command Squad, and 1 Tempestor Prime (Scion Officer).



Long story short, from your post I'd say definitely on the Defense Force. I'd personally skip on the Start Collecting unless you specifically want to avoid Chimera - you get more bang for your buck with the Defense Force overall. And if you like the idea of Scions, go for the box - you get the Commissar you'd be missing out on from the other SC box but also get a more varied cast of characters.


As someone else said too, 3rd party can be cheaper, and places such as Wargames Atlantic can give you nice bang for your buck with far newer sculpts. Not an option playing at a GW store, but for casual games with the family it can be an option.
   
 
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