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Made in us
Posts with Authority





So, GW has already said at one point a while back that there would be no changes to Kill Team along with 9th Edition's release- which I interpreted as them saying that the new edition wouldn't update Kill-Team by default.

But do you think we need a new Kill-Team? Do you think the game's going to be dead for a few years? Do you think a new Kill-Team should be something different? What would you like to see?

If it were to see an update, I'd like to see the following:

-Less restrictions on wargear options, not limited to 'what comes in the kit' (and even that wasn't always true).
-More creative loadout options, i.e "dual pistol guardsman" or "Infiltrators with Astartes Shotguns"
-More robust campaign system, similar to Necromunda
-Not a copypasta of regular 40k rules
-New units/factions like Arbites, Mutants, Traitor Guard
-Customizable wargear, like weapon optics etc.


One interesting idea someone mentioned to me was "What if it was WarCry 40k?" I have to say... the thought intrigued me. WarCry has been quite a bit of fun for me.

Mob Rule is not a rule. 
   
Made in gb
Hardened Veteran Guardsman





I’m not familiar with WarCry but I think the things I want for Kill Team are beyond the scope of what Kill Team is.

I’d like support for minor factions, or more customisation on what my models can take. This is a gateway game into 40K though. There isn’t much use in GW supporting a Kill Team faction that won’t be supported in the standard 40K game. Same is more or less true on giving Wargear options that aren’t supported in the main game.

A more robust campaign system would be good. GW would need to think of something sufficiently different to Necromunda though. The two systems are already separated by the models we use, though I think the rules also need to be sufficiently different.

I was nostalgically looking at Shadow War Armageddon the other day. Though I think it’s fair to say that people liked that game because it was essentially a copy of first edition Necromunda.
   
Made in us
Posts with Authority





El Torro wrote:
I was nostalgically looking at Shadow War Armageddon the other day. Though I think it’s fair to say that people liked that game because it was essentially a copy of first edition Necromunda.


It was all fun and games until you realized that Chaos Marines were getting pinned by laspistols.

Mob Rule is not a rule. 
   
Made in us
Manhunter





Sticksville, Texas

Ya know, asking what I would like to see next from Kill Team is actually fairly hard to answer. Besides a cleaning up of the rules, dropping Commanders, and making things like pistols relevant in a game... only thing I would actually want for it is a campaign system that is more robust/actually matters then it currently does, but not quite at the Necromunda level.

If I want a campaign centered game... I will play Necromunda, Mordheim, Rogue Stars, Frostgrave... or any of the dozens of other campaign systems that have a skirmish game attached to them. Because let's face it, the core systems for those games are geared towards the campaign. Not that there is anything wrong with that, as I love me some campaign driven games.

I will also concede the hyper specialization and conversion potential of models for those campaign driven games as well, so don't really need much more model loadout possibilities. Maybe a bit more to match the main 40k Codex option for stuff (a Combi weapon & Chainsword loadout should be accessible for a Tactical Sergeant....), but I do somewhat like the idea of models being fairly restricted to what comes in their box. Yeah, a dual pistol Guardsman sounds like an awesome model, probably best left to Necromunda for that.

Before the Coronapocalypse, Kill Team was a game easy to get new tabletop players into by telling them that (for Imperium/Chaos factions) "you only need one box to play!" was kind of a big deal. Made the plunge easier for a new tabletop gamer since they only needed a box or two to be on mostly even footing with gamers who have collections old enough to drink alcohol, and often older than some of the new players themselves.

So I guess... drop Commanders, clean up the rules, and give us an updated rulebook with the new models and units coming out for 9th. While Kill Team should still be a gateway game to 40k, it does not mean it shouldn't exist as it's own unique game. Leave the HQ models to Combat Patrol, have Kill Team focus on the no name heroes of their factions and their struggles. The hybrid IGOUGO/alternating activation system of Kill Team is fairly novel and works well enough to give that skirmish game feel while still being familiar to what a 40k player would be used to, or would have to learn after expanding past Kill Team.

Oh, one thing I would actually LOVE to see though... is for GW to keep Kill Team similar to 40k, but also make real use of the d10 that comes in the Kill Team box. GW has shown they can effectively use different die to do the same thing in Apocalypse, so have Kill Team be the game where granularity between different levels of 40k models and weapons is shown by using a d6/d8/d10. Now I think that would be cool, no idea how to do that though, as I have drank a bit too much while thinking on this post as I type it.

So uh, I guess for the most part, keep Kill Team similar to 40k but different, drop Commanders, lightly expand wargear options for models to be able make anything that comes in their box, slightly better campaign system, and the late addition to my post of using different dice based on the experience level of the model/weapon or something.
   
Made in us
Posts with Authority





 NH Gunsmith wrote:
I will also concede the hyper specialization and conversion potential of models for those campaign driven games as well, so don't really need much more model loadout possibilities. Maybe a bit more to match the main 40k Codex option for stuff (a Combi weapon & Chainsword loadout should be accessible for a Tactical Sergeant....), but I do somewhat like the idea of models being fairly restricted to what comes in their box. Yeah, a dual pistol Guardsman sounds like an awesome model, probably best left to Necromunda for that.


While I'll easily concede that the heavier elements of a campaign need to be "Necromunda's thing" to some degree, I'll respectfully disagree about the customization and unique things you can create.

The following is opinion, subjective, anecdotal, etc.

The problem I have with the current Kill-Team game is that a large portion of it is basically "useless junk" that serves no real purpose with a handful of rules that could have been compressed into a White Dwarf magazine. I mean, Kill Team for 7th edition wasn't even entirely its own game- it was an addendum to the 7th edition core rules.

It's a 'gateway to 40k'- which sounds awesome... until you realize that you're paying money for a book you'll use for a few weeks until you can afford a couple more boxes of models- and at that point, you're already playing 40k with everyone else. For all the people I've heard clamoring over how awesome and great Kill-Team is/was, the only other skirmish game I've seen people lose interest in faster was Shadow War: Armageddon.

And maybe that's exactly what I need- another SW:A. The execution was flawed, it seemed like it was trying too hard to fit into Necromunda power levels to test the enthusiasm for Necromunda. But it had a lot of ideas that worked well, and if you worked around some of the glaring flaws in the rules... you could easily make a pretty fun experience.

I'm a huge fan of Necromunda- I'm a passionate player, actually. But at the same time- I'll be the first to admit that it's pretty hard to get people to buy an entirely new line of models to play a game. I get it, people are on a budget.

Overall- whatever Kill Team next should be? I'd prefer it either be a basic supplement to standard 40k like it was in 7th edition... or a completely new game on its own entirely.




Mob Rule is not a rule. 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





All we know is that there is still no contact with Nottingham and that 9th edition 40K maybe involved.

Seriously, GW hasn't given any clue as to what their plans are aside from the 9th edition FAQ, which mentions that the new models will be "infiltrating" Kill Team tables, and KT is a separate game from 40K.

Before they wrap up with the current edition of Kill Team it would be good if they consider a solo play expansion. Lockdown essentially disconnected players from each other and with no end in sight and the warning of a second spike, Kill Team is small and accessable enough to accomodate such a feature.

It could include a manual, an event deck, tokens and scenery. A few random characters such as a sprue of gaunts, horrors and maybe throw in the Ambull for good measure.


Casual gamer, casual fun! 
   
Made in ca
Boom! Leman Russ Commander





London, Ontario

My future hopes for kill team would be...

Move to a flat-out alternating activation where each model does its thing and then the next model does its thing. Alternative, a chit-bag or deck of cards to determine player activation, but just have models do their whole schtick then move onto the next. Once each model has activated, next turn. The whole “I move everyone, then you move everyone, then we take turns with our shoot first guys then our don’t shoot first guys, then take turns with these fighters but then these fighters take turns later is a needlessly complex amalgam. Just go straight to model-by-model activations.

I’d like to see a move to d10 or d12. Get away from the out of action roll and just make everything a few pips harder to kill. Instead of 4+ on a d6 for even S/T, make it 9+ on a d12 instead. Gives higher strength weapons more room for impact, and how often do S 2 weapons actually show up? So even a S3 vs T6 is a 12+ on a pip-to-point difference, but S8 vs T4 only gets to 5+ on that d12 (67%) which is analogous to a 2+ to wound, 4+ out of action on d6’s.

Put a soft cap on 3 wound models and eliminate HQ units. Most armies have Elite counterparts, like Junior officers vs Company Commanders sort of thing.

Absolutely update the available models.

Take a page from 40k, and have 3 levels of mission. 100 points, 150, and 200. While I understand the purpose of splitting the Elites units from the Core as a profit generating measure, that cat’s out of the bag.

Perhaps expand into Space Hulk territory, with modular boards to represent an enclosed battle zone.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





Fantastic ideas, greatbittree.

The three tier points system sounds good, although I'd add 50 points to that.

The D10 could definitely see better use in the game.

A Space Hulk expansion would be awesome.

Casual gamer, casual fun! 
   
Made in ca
Boom! Leman Russ Commander





London, Ontario

I was quite hopeful that the Arena expansion was headed that way... but it wasn’t meant to be.
   
Made in us
Foul Dwimmerlaik






Minneapolis, MN

I want kill team to mimic warcry.

By that, i mean not in the same way that warcry lacks granularity, but in how the game is structured.

I want rules li,e the ambul uses for a myriad of 40k flora and fauna. Zoats, deathworld flora (more rules), etc. Etc.

I think the idea of using a fixed set of terrain is very attractive and one of the things i like most about warcry.

I also want the hit/wound/save/fnp rolls to get a major overhaul. Warcry has spoiled me in that regard as well. Its one of the reasons why kill team still takes as long as a regular 40k game to resolve. And for a 20 model skirmish game tnat lacks the rules intensity of Infinity, thats just a bit dumb.

I want the terrain sets to remain in print while the game itself is in print. There is no reason that you shouldnt be able to order a desthworld box at least direct from gw.

The same thing goes for the starter set. If its a good deal, well let it remain a good deal and use that loss leader to draw people in and keep the damn thing in print. You remember what a loss leader is, right gw? Its the sole reason why ypu are so successful today. Kirby is gone, so get rid of the remnants of the kirby mindset.

Perhaps open beta testing of rules to prevent unused supplements like Kill Team HQ from happening and becoming a wasted, for the most part, effort.

Make kill team getting started boxes. But real ones. Not the shot you used to put out. Dont make the consumer buy 10-20 models if you know damn well no more than 2 will ever be used at any givem time.

The friendly you make your product to consumers, regardless of price, the more successful it shall be.

I dont think kill team needs a major overhaul, but i also wouldnt complain if it did get one.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 greatbigtree wrote:
I was quite hopeful that the Arena expansion was headed that way... but it wasn’t meant to be.


It did give us secondary mission objectives though, which are brilliant. But id rather not pay the price of the arena expansion just for those cards/rules.

I also want to further amend my suggestions by dumping UGOIGO once and for all finally. Just make kill team its own game, not some half assed attempt as an introduction into 40k. Use combat patrol for that role, and give us a true 40k themed skirmish game with a worthy design.

They did it for Warcry. And it works most excellently. Dont listen to the haters. They just want to keep rolling buckets of dice as if rolling them somehow gives a player agency. Protip: it doesnt. Its not even clever subterfuge if you know even any fundamentals of game design at all.

GW are prefectly capable and hire some pretty good designers sometimes. I miss James Hewitt. He is the latter day savior of ameritrash.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/09/22 23:47:56


   
Made in fi
Water-Caste Negotiator






I'm probably alone in thinking this, but IMO the rules are fine as they are. Just update the model & weapon stats to 9th and introduce crusade for KT and I'm good.

Commanders could go, replaced by light vehicles, dreads & monsters. Include suitable countermeasure weapons for every faction.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/09/23 02:29:31


 
   
Made in ca
Boom! Leman Russ Commander





London, Ontario

At first, I liked the idea of a Dread / Monster as a single centrepiece type model... but then you’re left with like, 50 points to make enough bodies to claim objectives and that’s exactly why (in my opinion) Commanders fell flat as an expansion. Even at 200 points it would be analogous to taking a Knight to a 500 point game... it’s not really a fun and interactive experience.

I’d see that more like a 300 ish point game in 40k, with a custom scenario or something. I think it would just fall outside the scope of the game.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Myrtle Creek, OR

 tauist wrote:
I'm probably alone in thinking this, but IMO the rules are fine as they are. Just update the model & weapon stats to 9th and introduce crusade for KT and I'm good.

Commanders could go, replaced by light vehicles, dreads & monsters. Include suitable countermeasure weapons for every faction.

Our small group seems to agree with you on the rules being just fine as-is.
The only problem will be when GW releases the 9th attuned edition of KT of whether we’re buying into that.
Kinda linked with what the group does and the group tends to buy the new update.
   
Made in ca
Cackling Chaos Conscript






I think the core rules are mostly holding up alright. Some clarification and cleanup would be nice - like spell out exactly how many dice you reroll with a command point, etc.

The Crusade rules from 9th Ed. seem to have been fairly well received and I'd really like to see something similar adapted for Kill Team. Tie it in to specialist progression and give your opponent more CPs for fighting against a force that has more experience and buffs, instead of changing the points cost for specialists as they level and forcing players to rework their lists. Give higher-level specialists better passive buffs or abilities rather than piling on more strategems to keep track of (more on that later...)

Commit to releasing factions properly. The Starstriders et al are all interesting concepts, but are usually hamstrung by their hyper-focus and lack of options. They did a bit better of a job with the Servants of the Abyss IMO, but they should have been rolled into the Chaos Marines faction and having them as separate entities doesn't make sense. And stop putting out half-assed factions in White Dwarf - either do them properly or not at all.

Cut down on the crazy proliferation of strategems. I know it's easy content for them to churn out, but it's just ridiculous how many there are. Plenty of them are just bad and can be ignored, but you still need to wade through them (especially in a game, it's a real drag). Maybe allow players to have a deck of chosen strategems of a limited size, plus the core ones. Then you can keep cranking out cards but I don't need to flip through a million of them in the middle of a game each time there might be something relevant.

Re-do the Sisters list and give them an interesting special rule to represent how they fight as a faction (like orders, canticles, power from pain, etc) and fire whoever was in charge of the Annual.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/09/23 07:56:15


 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





You're probably going to get more longevity out of playing regular 40k at the Patrol level with Crusade.

Kill Team is most likely done with support until it's re-released 5 years down the line.

"'players must agree how they are going to select their armies, and if any restrictions apply to the number and type of models they can use."

This is an actual rule in the actual rulebook. Quit whining about how you can imagine someone's army touching you in a bad place and play by the actual rules.


Freelance Ontologist

When people ask, "What's the point in understanding everything?" they've just disqualified themselves from using questions and should disappear in a puff of paradox. But they don't understand and just continue existing, which are also their only two strategies for life. 
   
Made in ca
Cackling Chaos Conscript






 DarknessEternal wrote:
You're probably going to get more longevity out of playing regular 40k at the Patrol level with Crusade.

Kill Team is most likely done with support until it's re-released 5 years down the line.


I mean, yeah - I was already going to do that, but isn't both better?

You're right, that is a plausible outcome, but I think it would be foolish of GW to drop it when it costs comparatively little to keep as part of the range. Another book now and then isn't all that expensive to print, and most of the boxes so far have been repacks of existing models. Anyone else notice that the Command Ed. Battlefield Expansion set is pretty much a killzone box?
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





Given the extra sales from players purchasing kits from factions they normally wouldn't, I doubt GW would give up that business opportunity for as long as five years. And Necromunda doesn't have Space Marines...

Casual gamer, casual fun! 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





The other option is switching to all the codex stats so that you can use up to date models

"'players must agree how they are going to select their armies, and if any restrictions apply to the number and type of models they can use."

This is an actual rule in the actual rulebook. Quit whining about how you can imagine someone's army touching you in a bad place and play by the actual rules.


Freelance Ontologist

When people ask, "What's the point in understanding everything?" they've just disqualified themselves from using questions and should disappear in a puff of paradox. But they don't understand and just continue existing, which are also their only two strategies for life. 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





True, but if one has multiple faction teams then thats quite a few codices on the shopping list.

Casual gamer, casual fun! 
   
Made in fi
Water-Caste Negotiator






New teaser shown tells us an update is coming in 2021:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/10/17/the-warhammer-preview-online-sports-and-skirmish/

Guessing it'll be during Q1/2021? It has to be some sort of update coinciding with 9th edition 40K, possibly bringing the rules more into line with the bigger game. I can only hope KT still retains its ebook formats though..


BTW, That new Blood Bowl is gorgeous! I just might have to replace my crusty old edition

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2020/10/18 11:32:35


 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





Just to know Kill Team is alive is something.

Probably a new edition with the Necron Pariah-thingy background.

Casual gamer, casual fun! 
   
 
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