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Made in us
Guarded Grey Knight Terminator






Ok, last list idea I am going to post

Trying to make a guard list that will contest the mid field whilst still providing ple ty of killy power in combat and shooting. Catachan meets both this requirements. With around 90 infantry bodies 8 bullgryns, and back line ignore LOS shooting, I should be able to deal with most threats and still threaten the middle of the board early.

I added in a pair of armigers for increased melee threat and tank popping capability.

The command squads are intended to outflank with plasma guns for helping to delete a key threat/assassinations

I feel like with all the lasguns, vehicles, melee, meltas, and plasma I should be able to deal with hordes, elites, and vehicles

++ Battalion Detachment 0CP (Imperium - Astra Militarum) [92 PL, 10CP, 1,690pts] ++

+ Configuration +

Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points)

Detachment CP

Regimental Doctrine: Regiment: Catachan

+ Stratagems +

Imperial Commander's Armoury [-1CP]: 1 additional Heirloom of Conquest

Tank Ace [-1CP]

+ HQ +

Colonel 'Iron Hand' Straken [4 PL, 80pts]: Warlord, WT (Catachan): Lead From the Front

Company Commander [2 PL, 45pts]: Plasma pistol, Power sword

Tank Commander [12 PL, 193pts]: Heavy Bolter, Storm Bolter, Turret-mounted Demolisher Siege Cannon

+ Troops +

Conscripts [7 PL, 140pts]
. 28x Conscript: 28x Lasgun

Infantry Squad [3 PL, 55pts]
. 8x Guardsman: 8x Lasgun
. Guardsman W/ Special Weapon: Meltagun
. Sergeant: Laspistol

Infantry Squad [3 PL, 55pts]
. 8x Guardsman: 8x Lasgun
. Guardsman W/ Special Weapon: Meltagun
. Sergeant: Laspistol

Infantry Squad [3 PL, 55pts]
. 8x Guardsman: 8x Lasgun
. Guardsman W/ Special Weapon: Meltagun
. Sergeant: Laspistol

Infantry Squad [3 PL, 55pts]
. 8x Guardsman: 8x Lasgun
. Guardsman W/ Special Weapon: Meltagun
. Sergeant: Laspistol

Infantry Squad [3 PL, 55pts]
. 8x Guardsman: 8x Lasgun
. Guardsman W/ Special Weapon: Meltagun
. Sergeant: Laspistol

+ Elites +

Astropath [2 PL, 25pts]: Nightshroud, Telepathica Stave

Bullgryns [10 PL, 172pts]
. Bullgryn: Brute Shield, Bullgryn Maul
. Bullgryn: Brute Shield, Bullgryn Maul
. Bullgryn: Grenadier Gauntlet, Slabshield
. Bullgryn Bone 'ead: Brute Shield, Bullgryn Maul

Bullgryns [10 PL, 172pts]
. Bullgryn: Brute Shield, Bullgryn Maul
. Bullgryn: Brute Shield, Bullgryn Maul
. Bullgryn: Grenadier Gauntlet, Slabshield
. Bullgryn Bone 'ead: Brute Shield, Bullgryn Maul

Command Squad [2 PL, 64pts]
. Veteran w/ Special Weapon: Plasma gun
. Veteran w/ Special Weapon: Plasma gun
. Veteran w/ Special Weapon: Plasma gun
. Veteran w/ Special Weapon: Plasma gun

Command Squad [2 PL, 64pts]
. Veteran w/ Special Weapon: Plasma gun
. Veteran w/ Special Weapon: Plasma gun
. Veteran w/ Special Weapon: Plasma gun
. Veteran w/ Special Weapon: Plasma gun

Master of Ordnance [2 PL, 35pts]

+ Heavy Support +

Manticore [8 PL, 145pts]: Full Payload, Heavy Bolter

Manticore [8 PL, 145pts]: Full Payload, Heavy Bolter

Wyverns [8 PL, 135pts]
. Wyvern: Heavy Bolter

++ Super-Heavy Auxiliary Detachment -3CP (Imperium - Imperial Knights) [16 PL, -3CP, 310pts] ++

+ Configuration +

Detachment CP [-3CP]

Household Choice: Questor Imperialis
. House Griffith

+ Lord of War +

Armiger Warglaives [16 PL, 310pts]
. Armiger Warglaive: Heavy Stubber
. Armiger Warglaive: Heavy Stubber

++ Total: [108 PL, 7CP, 2,000pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe

"Glory in our suffering, because we know that suffering produces perseverance; perseverance, character; and character, hope. And hope does not disappoint"
-Paul of Tarsus

If my post seems goofy, assume I am posting from my phone and the autocorrect elf in my phone is drunk again 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran





So, I think your wyvern is sort of an extra wrinkle you don't quite need -- and your tank commander .. hmm.

OK. Its catachan infantry / melee blob, right? Every guy gets S4 x 2 attacks in melee.
You could up that 50 percent with a ministerium priest, and it would boost the bullygryns as well, which are a not inconsequential part of this army..

My suggestion is the wyvern, though nice, is really only throwing 4d6 shots (with reroll wounnds) or about 12 HITS against a troop of horde.
Your elites are broken out into 6 units, its full -- but oyu COULD pack the 8 bullygrn into a midsized single unit instead, making it easier to affect with a single buffing spell.
Lets say you did that, droping 1 bullyboy and added in the ministerium's priest to give everythign in your army a +1A statline near him -- meaning instead of 26 swings, your newly minted bullygrn group swings 29 times.
But, pointedly, everyone else swings 30, not 20, in melee, and that pack of lunatic conscripts is up to I don't even do that much math.

So ok. That's a small change. Now a big one.

Lets say you decided you don't in fact need an expensive wyvern to kill hordes, because, well, conscripes + troops in gaurd = antihorde at the front. You have 135 points to play with.
Your goal is to get a single purchase .. an helverin warglaive, allowing your little pack of knights to have a front/melee shock unit that is also a bit of a distraction carnifax for your side, AND, well, allows the 3 knights to activate their regiment bonus.

So you can get the effects of being my favorite annoyance faction in knights, taranis.
When that warglaive goes down from attacks, you smile, spend the tarnis strat's CP into it, and it stands back up, ready to be (next round) given a 1 cp boost to operate at full function, and charges in somewhere (maybe conscripts provide cover for its charge) after shooting all its weapons to also make all its melee attacks.

sure, it situational, but the same technique can stand up a blown up backling helverin, and the 3 (warg, armig, armig) all are now granted a 6+++ feel no pain for no further effort. If you are totally fixated on another house's traits, this at least (as I understand the knights' detachments) will allow you to unlock any house's house trait bonus. You might take the custom ignore AP-1 tradition, much to the frustration of marine players trying to kill you with their AP-1 bolter phase weaponry. Its up to you, but if (I may be wrong) I don't think you get the trait until you either have a large knight in the detachment and/ or 3 separate small ones.

While a warglaive isn't exactly a wyvern, you can do stuff to bring dwon hordes OR marines with it, its got some decent little shooty before its decent little melee, and the wyvern is sort of stuck firing its lackluster shooting into hordes to make back points. Without AP, its pretty useless aginst marines in cover.

So I don't remember offhand the exact difference in price but its somethign I would personally give up an entire bullygrin from those seven to see happen -- a fast, moderatley powerful melee unit that also shoots a bit, has native shields, can rotate shields, and has a native feel no pain, its surprisingly tougher as an escort to your short ranged demolisher tank (which is something and somewhere the wyvern can't help you.)

Anyway, that's my advice .. I tried to figure out synergies you hadn't fully exploited and refocus things so you could. Even if it cost you a pair of bullygrn ultimately.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/11/22 01:01:42


Guard gaurd gAAAARDity Gaurd gaurd.  
   
Made in us
Guarded Grey Knight Terminator






Dukeofstuff wrote:
So, I think your wyvern is sort of an extra wrinkle you don't quite need -- and your tank commander .. hmm.

OK. Its catachan infantry / melee blob, right? Every guy gets S4 x 2 attacks in melee.
You could up that 50 percent with a ministerium priest, and it would boost the bullygryns as well, which are a not inconsequential part of this army..

My suggestion is the wyvern, though nice, is really only throwing 4d6 shots (with reroll wounnds) or about 12 HITS against a troop of horde.
Your elites are broken out into 6 units, its full -- but oyu COULD pack the 8 bullygrn into a midsized single unit instead, making it easier to affect with a single buffing spell.
Lets say you did that, droping 1 bullyboy and added in the ministerium's priest to give everythign in your army a +1A statline near him -- meaning instead of 26 swings, your newly minted bullygrn group swings 29 times.
But, pointedly, everyone else swings 30, not 20, in melee, and that pack of lunatic conscripts is up to I don't even do that much math.

So ok. That's a small change. Now a big one.

Lets say you decided you don't in fact need an expensive wyvern to kill hordes, because, well, conscripes + troops in gaurd = antihorde at the front. You have 135 points to play with.
Your goal is to get a single purchase .. an helverin warglaive, allowing your little pack of knights to have a front/melee shock unit that is also a bit of a distraction carnifax for your side, AND, well, allows the 3 knights to activate their regiment bonus.

So you can get the effects of being my favorite annoyance faction in knights, taranis.
When that warglaive goes down from attacks, you smile, spend the tarnis strat's CP into it, and it stands back up, ready to be (next round) given a 1 cp boost to operate at full function, and charges in somewhere (maybe conscripts provide cover for its charge) after shooting all its weapons to also make all its melee attacks.

sure, it situational, but the same technique can stand up a blown up backling helverin, and the 3 (warg, armig, armig) all are now granted a 6+++ feel no pain for no further effort. If you are totally fixated on another house's traits, this at least (as I understand the knights' detachments) will allow you to unlock any house's house trait bonus. You might take the custom ignore AP-1 tradition, much to the frustration of marine players trying to kill you with their AP-1 bolter phase weaponry. Its up to you, but if (I may be wrong) I don't think you get the trait until you either have a large knight in the detachment and/ or 3 separate small ones.

While a warglaive isn't exactly a wyvern, you can do stuff to bring dwon hordes OR marines with it, its got some decent little shooty before its decent little melee, and the wyvern is sort of stuck firing its lackluster shooting into hordes to make back points. Without AP, its pretty useless aginst marines in cover.

So I don't remember offhand the exact difference in price but its somethign I would personally give up an entire bullygrin from those seven to see happen -- a fast, moderatley powerful melee unit that also shoots a bit, has native shields, can rotate shields, and has a native feel no pain, its surprisingly tougher as an escort to your short ranged demolisher tank (which is something and somewhere the wyvern can't help you.)

Anyway, that's my advice .. I tried to figure out synergies you hadn't fully exploited and refocus things so you could. Even if it cost you a pair of bullygrn ultimately.


That is one of the best army list responses I've ever received. Thank you! I dont know why I didn't think of getting a 3rd armiger for the army.

"Glory in our suffering, because we know that suffering produces perseverance; perseverance, character; and character, hope. And hope does not disappoint"
-Paul of Tarsus

If my post seems goofy, assume I am posting from my phone and the autocorrect elf in my phone is drunk again 
   
Made in gr
Stalwart Veteran Guard Sergeant





I'd suggest Heavy Flamers on the Manticores. It may seem non-sensical to put a flamer on an artillery piece at first glance, but seeing how those two Manticores ideally won't have LOS to any enemies anyway, the Heavy Bolter won't be of much use either. Should your enemy somehow manage to reach your Manticores and engage them in close combat however, you can at least give them a re-rollable D6 auto-hits on Overwatch. Same goes for the Demolisher Tank Commander - since it's a Demolisher, either you will be driving up-close to the enemy or the enemy (if a melee faction) will come towards you, so switch the H. Bolters for H. Flamers to benefit from the Catachan doctrine.

Forget the Grenadier Gauntlet on the Bullgryns, just go full clobbering time - if you want to shoot with them for some reason, you can always throw a grenade. I'd also mix 50/50 slab shields and bruteshields to be flexible for both the high and low AP attacks they are going to receive. I also second taking a Priest to babysit them.

I'm not so sure about the Conscripts - they just seem so awful in general compared to Infantry Squads and huge blobs are at a disadvantage against Blast weapons. If you want to field them, maybe take a second priest and second psyker to buff them with additional attacks and better saves. On the subject of psykers, it's somewhat point pricey, but I've come to appreciate the Primaris + Wyrdvane blob combo - their combined stratagem is really great.

Now, where would you get the points for all this? I also second kicking out the Wyvern - you already have a ton of Lasguns for taking care of potential low T, bad Sv targets.

This message was edited 7 times. Last update was at 2020/11/22 08:08:49


 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran





Final thought. I like his advice too, its really good and I didn't think of it.

AND an odd suggestion. We both recommend no wyvern. I recommend a minipriest, he recommends a primaris and a wyrdvanes trio. I recommend a warglaive up front with feel no pain built in. The relatviely vulnerable tank commander is going to be the first thing on your army that dies, because any sane opponent will melta it down when its midfield. So what if you don't have a tank commander? Replace that with the primaris he suggests. You save all but 2 of the poitns needed to add in the third knight, which is a bit resilient-er and might stand back up.

You could do this all and I even thought of another cool thing. Right now, you are going to spend about 69 points on elites to get a wyrdvane trio and a ministerium priest, and to fit them, you have to both put all your bully in one basket and drop a plasma squad (which is about the same price as the 2 new elites).
So you have (credits)
135 poitns wyvern, 68 for the 1 plasma squad,
197 for the tank commander = 400
and (debits)
50 for psyker primaris, 45 for minipriest, 24 for wyrdvanes, 160 for warglaive.
you have 121 points leftover even if you don't drop a single bullygrn, leaving you an 8 man blob. BUT, I would. You gave up a wyvern and I know a way you can do better than a wyvern for dakka and resilience and its even a distraction carnifax!
A valkyrie dakkabird. 2 heavy bolters, 2 multiple rocket pods, 1 multilaser. It can hang around somewhere hovering or scooting across the board (hover mode, is bs3+, so the whole beast is a lean 140 poitns. If you can find 19 points, you can put one in your list and that guy can be used to do all sorts of things. As a wyvern, its a BETTER wyvern. Against a horde, you have 2d6 (I tihnk they are blast as well) missles and 2x3 shots of heavy bolters and 3 multilaser .. or 21 shots. A wyvern only fires 24 shots EVER at a horde, and its bs4+ with reroll 1's. Wyvern are critically weakened by no AP in a heavy armor meta for infantry -- but this bird has some ap in its shooting.
Anyway.
You could then have 2 manti, 3 more capable knights, a valky, the psyker conclave, an 7 man bullysquad, AND the ministerium priest. Valkryie can be dakka -- but also anti marines -- and also just a vehicle that can both protect and deliver a few gaurds to any point on the board. The few leftover points can give a few regular gaurd sarges powerswords, potentially. Smite/Smite/Malstrom is not a terrible output for your wing of primaris/wyrdvanes/psykers, but as a warning, those wyrdvanes are likely to die quickly -- once you land them out the valkyrie.


This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/11/22 17:21:34


Guard gaurd gAAAARDity Gaurd gaurd.  
   
Made in us
Guarded Grey Knight Terminator






A couple quick updates...
1. I always meant to have my bullgryns with mauls, i just made a battlescribe error. Also, I consolidated them to 1 squad
2. I also agree with the h. Flamer on the manticore as I already have them modeled this way, again, just didn't update in battlescribe

I added the knight and dropped the wyvern. I am going between a helvrin or another warglaive (i really like warglaives). I do see the need for a helvrin, they have some good strats and make good space marine and decent vehicle killers. Also, nice strats against flyers, so I will likely end up with 1 as helvrin. They are also so fast they should always be able to gain LOS for their target and have long enough range to stay away from threats.

It will make me sad to bring a guard list and no leman russ. Looking to maximize the usefulness of the catachan traits, one of which is deadlier russes. Been also toying with an executioner in the 2w marine meta as it is a perfect marine killer and can sit back a little bit more and is a couple points cheaper.

I like the idea of a valk, but putting a couple melta command squads in them. Lots of points into that tactic. I'd have to buy another valkyrie as I have converted my other 2 into a vulture and an avenger.

I likely should put a couple more offensive psykers in the list, just not sold on wyrdvanes. They don't have the longevity most psykers do because they don't have the character keyword. That said... what are your thoughts on adding inquisition into the mix? I have basic inquisitors, Hector rex, Solomon lok, and coteaz. Adding coteaz into the mix, he could have multiple mortal wound powers, the ability to give a unit 5++, can steal cp, or stop overwatch and provide a leadership bubble and is pretty mean in cc. 95 points, but he brings quite a bit to the table.

Also, I have all of the assassins as an option too and they are great harassment units. Callidus has done so much heavy lifting for me in the past.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/11/23 14:53:03


"Glory in our suffering, because we know that suffering produces perseverance; perseverance, character; and character, hope. And hope does not disappoint"
-Paul of Tarsus

If my post seems goofy, assume I am posting from my phone and the autocorrect elf in my phone is drunk again 
   
Made in gr
Stalwart Veteran Guard Sergeant





 Smotejob wrote:

I likely should put a couple more offensive psykers in the list, just not sold on wyrdvanes. They don't have the longevity most psykers do because they don't have the character keyword.



Ideally park them behind a LOS-blocking terrain where the enemy can't see them but they can still see your vehicles to cast Nightshroud/Psychic Barrier. Their main appeal lies in enabling the Primaris Psyker to cast both a defensive buff and an offensive psychic attack in the same phase.
   
Made in us
Guarded Grey Knight Terminator






I have all these models and could field this list soon, just need to finally build that last armiger. I'll likely vary up the bullgryn shields a little.

Still trying to decide on a knight household. Between krast (reroll attacks), raven (for advanced and shoot), and taranis (durability). Took a few extra points and added some toys to the guardsmen.

Added coteaz, primaris psyker, and wyrdvane for some mortal wounds and more buffing.

++ Battalion Detachment 0CP (Imperium - Astra Militarum) [76 PL, 9CP, 1,515pts] ++

+ Configuration +

Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points)

Detachment CP

Regimental Doctrine: Regiment: Catachan

+ Stratagems +

Imperial Commander's Armoury [-1CP]: 1 additional Heirloom of Conquest

Tank Ace [-1CP]

+ Agents of the Imperium +

Inquisitor Coteaz [5 PL, -1CP, 95pts]: 6) Castigation, Malleus - Power Through Knowledge, Stratagem: Inquisitorial Mandate

+ HQ +

Colonel 'Iron Hand' Straken [4 PL, 80pts]: Warlord, WT (Catachan): Lead From the Front

Company Commander [2 PL, 45pts]: Display Astra Militarum Orders, Plasma pistol, Power sword, Relic: The Laurels of Command

Primaris Psyker [3 PL, 50pts]: Psychic Maelstrom, psychic barrier

+ Troops +

Conscripts [7 PL, 150pts]
. 30x Conscript: 30x Lasgun

Infantry Squad [3 PL, 60pts]
. 8x Guardsman: 8x Lasgun
. Guardsman W/ Special Weapon: Meltagun
. Sergeant: Chainsword, Plasma pistol

Infantry Squad [3 PL, 60pts]
. 8x Guardsman: 8x Lasgun
. Guardsman W/ Special Weapon: Meltagun
. Sergeant: Chainsword, Plasma pistol

Infantry Squad [3 PL, 57pts]
. 8x Guardsman: 8x Lasgun
. Guardsman W/ Special Weapon: Meltagun
. Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Chainsword

Infantry Squad [3 PL, 55pts]
. 8x Guardsman: 8x Lasgun
. Guardsman W/ Special Weapon: Meltagun
. Sergeant: Chainsword, Laspistol

Infantry Squad [3 PL, 55pts]
. 8x Guardsman: 8x Lasgun
. Guardsman W/ Special Weapon: Meltagun
. Sergeant: Chainsword, Laspistol

+ Elites +

Astropath [2 PL, 25pts]: Nightshroud, Telepathica Stave

Bullgryns [15 PL, 301pts]
. Bullgryn: Brute Shield, Bullgryn Maul
. Bullgryn: Brute Shield, Bullgryn Maul
. Bullgryn: Brute Shield, Bullgryn Maul
. Bullgryn: Brute Shield, Bullgryn Maul
. Bullgryn: Brute Shield, Bullgryn Maul
. Bullgryn: Brute Shield, Bullgryn Maul
. Bullgryn Bone 'ead: Brute Shield, Bullgryn Maul

Command Squad [2 PL, 64pts]
. Veteran w/ Special Weapon: Plasma gun
. Veteran w/ Special Weapon: Plasma gun
. Veteran w/ Special Weapon: Plasma gun
. Veteran w/ Special Weapon: Plasma gun

Command Squad [2 PL, 64pts]
. Veteran w/ Special Weapon: Plasma gun
. Veteran w/ Special Weapon: Plasma gun
. Veteran w/ Special Weapon: Plasma gun
. Veteran w/ Special Weapon: Plasma gun

Ministorum Priest [2 PL, 40pts]: Chainsword

Wyrdvane Psykers [1 PL, 24pts]: Psychic Barrier
. 3x Wyrdvane Psyker: 3x Laspistol, 3x Wyrdvane Stave

+ Heavy Support +

Manticore [8 PL, 145pts]: Full Payload, Heavy Flamer

Manticore [8 PL, 145pts]: Full Payload, Heavy Flamer

++ Super-Heavy Detachment -3CP (Imperium - Imperial Knights) [25 PL, -4CP, 485pts] ++

+ Configuration +

Detachment CP [-3CP]

Household Choice: Questor Mechanicus
. House Krast

+ Stratagems +

Exalted Court [-1CP]: Exalted Court: 1 Extra Warlord Trait

+ Lord of War +

Armiger Helverins [9 PL, 175pts]
. Armiger Helverin: Heavy Stubber

Armiger Warglaives [8 PL, 155pts]
. Armiger Warglaive: Heavy Stubber

Armiger Warglaives [8 PL, 155pts]
. Armiger Warglaive: Character (Knight Lance), Heavy Stubber

++ Total: [101 PL, 5CP, 2,000pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe

"Glory in our suffering, because we know that suffering produces perseverance; perseverance, character; and character, hope. And hope does not disappoint"
-Paul of Tarsus

If my post seems goofy, assume I am posting from my phone and the autocorrect elf in my phone is drunk again 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran





I think you should give it a try like that, it looks pretty darn good. I always (I am strange that way) think that a melta on top of the warglaives isn't a bad shorter ranged knight option -- 2 extra shots of s6/-/1 doesn't win games, but 2 extra meltas can.

Also, consider sneaking one flamer into the list for the troops. The catachan order to "burn them out" can deny cover to anything shooting at the target, even far away manticores, in a manner that sometimes the astropath hasn't got the aura sphere size to do.

But yeah. Tryiittryittryit.

Guard gaurd gAAAARDity Gaurd gaurd.  
   
Made in us
Guarded Grey Knight Terminator






Also I think I am going to make my first try as house krast. Rerolling hits for those armigers is nice.

This fits with Coteaz since Krast is the household that has experienced and actively hunts chaos in their fluff

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/11/26 01:42:00


"Glory in our suffering, because we know that suffering produces perseverance; perseverance, character; and character, hope. And hope does not disappoint"
-Paul of Tarsus

If my post seems goofy, assume I am posting from my phone and the autocorrect elf in my phone is drunk again 
   
Made in ca
Fighter Ace






I find 1/3 bruteshield 2/3 slabshield a good ratio. I generally put a slabshield on the bone ead, not picking him to take a lascannon shot ya know?
   
Made in gr
Stalwart Veteran Guard Sergeant





slip wrote:
I find 1/3 bruteshield 2/3 slabshield a good ratio. I generally put a slabshield on the bone ead, not picking him to take a lascannon shot ya know?


Personally prefer the bruteshield for him as he will always be the last man standing.
   
 
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