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Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





2 questions

If the time line has moved on a couple of hundred years to allow for the indomitus crusade then why are the AM named characters still alive? Do all AM officers get some sort of immortality treatment?


Also why is one of the AM HQ units called a primaris psyker?
   
Made in gb
Norn Queen






mrFickle wrote:
2 questions

If the time line has moved on a couple of hundred years to allow for the indomitus crusade then why are the AM named characters still alive? Do all AM officers get some sort of immortality treatment?


Also why is one of the AM HQ units called a primaris psyker?
1) No, in the "current" timeline, most of them should be dead. A few of them are confirmed dead, like Kell, but others are just not mentioned because GW hopes you forget the issue. Other dead named characters include Blood Angels Captain Tycho. Being a named Character doesn't necessarily mean they are alive, especially since before Gathering Storm 40k was a setting, not a poorly written storyline.

2) Because they existed before GW decided to soft squat old-marines in favour of new Copyrightable Marines. Same reason why the Rhino Primaris exists in Legends (and has nothing to do with Primaris Marines).

This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2020/12/08 09:20:48


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





I really miss when 40k was a setting, off topic a bit but it felt more open to creation as opposed to a paint by number story. I dunno, I just liked the setting and you make from it what you will as opposed to progressing stories pushing time lines along. I can see why people do like the progressing stories, but I don't dig it as much.
   
Made in de
Dakka Veteran



Bamberg / Erlangen

Boy did I just read an article about that

https://www.belloflostsouls.net/2020/12/warhammer-40k-gw-just-retconned-8th-edition.html

TLDR; We are back in time and short lived officers still being alive is not a problem anymore.
   
Made in fi
Ye Lord of The End Times (and a good guy)





So GW making problem out of where is no problem. What does it matter is special character alive in "current" age or not? IT WAS NEVER A PROBLEM! GW games have been full of historical characters and that's been part of the strengths.

Massive headpalm.

Ah well that's what you get when you pamper "40k is evolving story" crowd who ignore that 40k was designed as setting rather than story and by making it story you make 40k story quality be by default saturday cartoon villain level. "I'll get you next time mwahahahaha!".

Short lived officers being problem? Never was, never would have been unless GW MADE it to be problem. If there's probem it's because GW wanted it to be problem.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/12/08 10:28:06


2021 painted/bought: 506/499 
   
Made in gb
Wing Commander





Bristol (UK)

 AngryAngel80 wrote:
I really miss when 40k was a setting, off topic a bit but it felt more open to creation as opposed to a paint by number story. I dunno, I just liked the setting and you make from it what you will as opposed to progressing stories pushing time lines along. I can see why people do like the progressing stories, but I don't dig it as much.

I totally agree. I really loved the narratives of the Imperial Armour books. Really zooming in on one particular conflict and expanding upon it. It left the gates wide open for players to create their own similar stories elsewhere, and also left the writers total freedom to do things without materially impacting the narrative.
Now, if I wanted to play a narrative game/event, my army is totally wrong because everyone's dead.
I also feel it's led to a sort of ridiculous escalation in the desire to 'progress' and always have a bigger event.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





Interesting responses here. I definitely feel that the way GW present the game now is that It all exists in a given point in time and they makeup the time line to support releases such as primaris and the rise of the necrons en mass
   
Made in us
Heroic Senior Officer






mrFickle wrote:
2 questions

If the time line has moved on a couple of hundred years to allow for the indomitus crusade then why are the AM named characters still alive? Do all AM officers get some sort of immortality treatment?


Also why is one of the AM HQ units called a primaris psyker?

Regular humans can get rejuvenation treatments and live for a few hundred years in 40k. It certainly makes more sense for IG to still have their named characters than Tau at any rate. Granted Tau stick folks like shadowsun in the freezer till they need them but still. Also, the vagueries of warp travel can essentially cause you to skip around in time, so it's entirely possible you'd see even a regular guardsman pop up across the galaxy for hundreds of years in short sections.

To answer second question, same reason Admech have an infantry unit called Vanguard. GW's rules team must have new people working on primaris marines because they keep naming primaris units after units that already exist in other armies. Primaris Pyskers have been around since I started playing in 5th and I know they were around even before that. Why nobody thought the new names wouldn't be confusing I'll never know..

Random third bit, youll want to abbreviate Imperial Guard as IG. I'm not saying this as an "astra whatever" snob, it's because AM stands for Admech, and it can be confusing when asking for advice.

'I've played Guard for years, and the best piece of advice is to always utilize the Guard's best special rule: "we roll more dice than you" ' - stormleader

"Sector Imperialis: 25mm and 40mm Round Bases (40+20) 26€ (Including 32 skulls for basing) " GW design philosophy in a nutshell  
   
Made in gb
Wing Commander





Bristol (UK)

The best bit was all the confusion around the Rhino Primaris actually transporting Firstborn (well, non-Primarisnas Firstborn wasn't a thing then).
Much confusion was add from new players.
   
Made in gb
Norn Queen






 kirotheavenger wrote:
The best bit was all the confusion around the Rhino Primaris actually transporting Firstborn (well, non-Primarisnas Firstborn wasn't a thing then).
Much confusion was add from new players.
Well it's been banished to Legends now.
   
Made in gb
Mighty Vampire Count






UK

mrFickle wrote:
2 questions

If the time line has moved on a couple of hundred years to allow for the indomitus crusade then why are the AM named characters still alive? Do all AM officers get some sort of immortality treatment?


Some do get Juvenat or similar, there are also occasional time issues with travel through the Warp and in at least one case - a Hero of the Imperium may remain listed as active for morale reasons long after their death.

Also you can play in different periods if you like

I AM A MARINE PLAYER

"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos

"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001

www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/528517.page

A Bloody Road - my Warhammer Fantasy Fiction 
   
Made in gb
Norn Queen






For example, Ci-Ci-Ciaphas Cain, HERO OF THE IMPERIUM! has standing orders by the Administratum to be listed as on active duty, regardless of any reports of his demise, as they got sick and tired of having to reverse the status of his death due to it happening so many times.

This is, of course, still standing despite the fact Ci-Ci-Ciaphas Cain, HERO OF THE IMPERIUM! having been buried with full military honours in a massive, public funeral.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/12/08 14:42:53


 
   
Made in ca
Sybarite Swinging an Agonizer



Ottawa

I don't think it really matters. If you play a 9th Edition game involving, say, Sergeant Harker (who should by all rights be dead by now), there are several ways to handwave it away, without even having to delve too deeply into lore-friendly explanations like Warp shenanigans or longevity treatments. For example, maybe this specific battle takes place at a time when he was still alive, like the 13th Black Crusade or shortly after. Or maybe he's not Harker, just a very similar Catachan; I'm sure there isn't a shortage of Harker-like Catachans.

Cadians, Sisters of Battle (Valorous Heart), Drukhari (Obsidian Rose)

Read my Drukhari short stories: Chronicles of Commorragh 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





Hmmm ok but they don’t pint this out. If your into matched play or just wanting to play then sure you could play nah 2 armies against each other but if you wanted to do some sort of narrative play you couldn’t have primaris vs or allied with Yarrick for example. If they lived in different time periods.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And I know the warp can distort time but it it really cannon that these characters are popping up all over time and still being directed by the imperium. Also why aren’t they popping up 10 million years in the future

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/12/08 15:11:46


 
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka







mrFickle wrote:
Hmmm ok but they don’t pint this out. If your into matched play or just wanting to play then sure you could play nah 2 armies against each other but if you wanted to do some sort of narrative play you couldn’t have primaris vs or allied with Yarrick for example. If they lived in different time periods.


Yarrick was still around - as far as we know - as of the end of 7th edition, and I don't see anything in the 8th 'dex to indicate he has passed since them. He may have been the Old Man of Armageddon, but I'm pretty sure the Administratum see the value in keeping him alive via rejuv treatment if possible.

mrFickle wrote:
And I know the warp can distort time but it it really cannon that these characters are popping up all over time and still being directed by the imperium. Also why aren’t they popping up 10 million years in the future


People popping up all the time isn't a piece of artillery, no. However, it is canon that warp-based time distortions appear - I direct you to the story of the Ork warlord who killed an earlier version of himself to get two copies of his favourite gun, for example.

And we have no evidence they don't appear that far in the future - it is just the case that none (that we're aware of) have since returned to tell us about it. Which might not say a lot for the state of the galaxy at that point in time, admittedly...

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 Kanluwen wrote:
This is, emphatically, why I will continue suggesting nuking Guard and starting over again. It's a legacy army that needs to be rebooted with a new focal point.

Confirmation of why no-one should listen to Kanluwen when it comes to the IG - he doesn't want the IG, he want's Kan's New Model Army... 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





Haha sure spelling is not my strong point


Automatically Appended Next Post:
But although there are stories of time of if moving along the time line was common enough that it would regularly happen to a specific small number of people then the setting of 40K would be a temporal war.

It’s not even been said directly that the the CSM in the eye of terror have been using their different experience of time to enact the black crusades. Only hinted at (as far as I am aware)

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/12/08 18:59:12


 
   
Made in ch
Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot





Rejuvenation treatments can extend human lifetimes into the hundreds of years. Warp shenanigans have also been mentioned.
   
Made in pl
Longtime Dakkanaut




mrFickle wrote:
Hmmm ok but they don’t pint this out. If your into matched play or just wanting to play then sure you could play nah 2 armies against each other but if you wanted to do some sort of narrative play you couldn’t have primaris vs or allied with Yarrick for example. If they lived in different time periods.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And I know the warp can distort time but it it really cannon that these characters are popping up all over time and still being directed by the imperium. Also why aren’t they popping up 10 million years in the future

That was a "problem" with 40k even before it was given an active plotline.If you cared for lore and wanted to play "fluffy" battles, certain units and heroes simply could not fight each other. Nothing chaged in that regard, and I firmly believe the amount of people that a) care about the exact tlimelines and b) can't muster the creativity needed to "rename" their Lord Solar Macharius into Lord Snottynose the 13th to be able to field him vs Commander Farsight is so tiny as to actually count in the negative numbers.
   
Made in gb
Fresh-Faced New User





Those named characters are like Slash from Guns N Roses. They died long ago and all we see now are impersonators taking up the mantle and playing at kids parties. Given that most guardsmen don’t last longer than 15 hours, none of them know what most of the named characters look like well enough to see the difference first hand.
   
Made in us
Humorless Arbite





Maine

-Guardsman- wrote:
I don't think it really matters. If you play a 9th Edition game involving, say, Sergeant Harker (who should by all rights be dead by now), there are several ways to handwave it away, without even having to delve too deeply into lore-friendly explanations like Warp shenanigans or longevity treatments. For example, maybe this specific battle takes place at a time when he was still alive, like the 13th Black Crusade or shortly after. Or maybe he's not Harker, just a very similar Catachan; I'm sure there isn't a shortage of Harker-like Catachans.


Yes, it's easy to rename a character and let your opponent know if you are trying to play in a timeline that doesn't necessarily jive with the current timeline. Plus name confusion is a real thing in 40k. Just look at the General Grismund thing.

Voxed from Salamander 84-24020
 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




 Dysartes wrote:
Yarrick was still around - as far as we know - as of the end of 7th edition, and I don't see anything in the 8th 'dex to indicate he has passed since them. He may have been the Old Man of Armageddon, but I'm pretty sure the Administratum see the value in keeping him alive via rejuv treatment if possible.


I'm fairly certain the combined racial fear of orks is what keeps Yarrick going. If he starts glowing green maybe you have problems.
   
Made in gb
Mighty Vampire Count






UK

mrFickle wrote:
Haha sure spelling is not my strong point

Automatically Appended Next Post:
But although there are stories of time of if moving along the time line was common enough that it would regularly happen to a specific small number of people then the setting of 40K would be a temporal war.

It’s not even been said directly that the the CSM in the eye of terror have been using their different experience of time to enact the black crusades. Only hinted at (as far as I am aware)


Time travel is usally one way and not under the control of the person it happens to with the notable exception of a certain Necron who messes about with Time alot.

So usually the traveller is stuck whereever they end up for good or ill.

A recent example is from recent Last Chancers novel where
Spoiler:
several named characters jump forward to "modern day"

I AM A MARINE PLAYER

"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos

"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001

www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/528517.page

A Bloody Road - my Warhammer Fantasy Fiction 
   
Made in gr
Hurr! Ogryn Bone 'Ead!





Well, let's see:

Jarran Kell is explicitedly KIA

Ursarkar Creed is a piece in Trazyn's carefully curated collection

Yarrick left Armageddon in pursue of Ghazz with a bunch of Black Templars and is arguably still on his tail. He is also probably biologically immortal since the collective Ork race believes him to be.
Shame the writers sorta forgot about him and randomly turned Ragnar into Ghazz' opponent.

Straken, Harker and Marbo were alive before the Rift and - seeing how we're apparently just 12 years later now - should still be alive and in fighting condition.

Knight Commander Pask was already old before the Right business but is probably keeping himself in shape with rejuvenates.

Cain's stories originally took place a century in the future but this was pre-Rift so honestly who knows now.

On Gaunt, I also have no idea. Probably depends on wether Dan Abnett considers the Sabbat Crusade to be concluded or not.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/12/10 16:40:25


 
   
Made in ca
Missionary On A Mission






 Esmer wrote:
Cain's stories originally took place a century in the future but this was pre-Rift so honestly who knows now.


The framing device of the Cain books is his memoirs being collated and circulated amongst the inquisition in early M42, the adventures themselves take place in M41, with I think the last one so far (chronologically) taking place concurrently with the 13th Black Crusade.

   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka







 Esmer wrote:
Straken, Harker and Marbo were alive before the Rift and - seeing how we're apparently just 12 years later now - should still be alive and in fighting condition.


Let's be honest, neither a galaxy-dividing Warp rift nor the ravages of time are a match for Sly Marbo...

2021 Plog - Here we go again... - my fifth attempt at a Dakka PLOG

My [url=https://pileofpotential.com/dysartes]Pile of Potential[/url - updates ongoing...

Gamgee on Tau Players wrote:we all kill cats and sell our own families to the devil and eat live puppies.


 Kanluwen wrote:
This is, emphatically, why I will continue suggesting nuking Guard and starting over again. It's a legacy army that needs to be rebooted with a new focal point.

Confirmation of why no-one should listen to Kanluwen when it comes to the IG - he doesn't want the IG, he want's Kan's New Model Army... 
   
Made in gr
Hurr! Ogryn Bone 'Ead!





 Dysartes wrote:
 Esmer wrote:
Straken, Harker and Marbo were alive before the Rift and - seeing how we're apparently just 12 years later now - should still be alive and in fighting condition.


Let's be honest, neither a galaxy-dividing Warp rift nor the ravages of time are a match for Sly Marbo...


FACT: Abaddon the Despoiler orchestrated the creation of the Great Rift to put an unsurmountable barrier between himself and Sly Marbo. Marbo broke through on the same day.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/12/10 18:02:52


 
   
Made in us
Monster-Slaying Daemonhunter





mrFickle wrote:
2 questions

If the time line has moved on a couple of hundred years to allow for the indomitus crusade then why are the AM named characters still alive? Do all AM officers get some sort of immortality treatment?


Also why is one of the AM HQ units called a primaris psyker?


In response to 1: yes and no.
They do have drugs and treatments that can extend a person's life for centuries, so high ranking or important imperial assets do receive them and live for a long time, usually until they're killed. Some though, are dead or MIA, like kell and creed [kell is dead, and creed is in a pokeball] [and of course not all are slated to recieve such treatments. Yarrick who is an important planetary leader and propaganda figure, probably would receive them and still be around, but Harker probably wouldn't as he's just a sergeant, for example.]

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/12/11 00:59:40


Guardsmen, hear me! Cadia may lie in ruin, but her proud people do not! For each brother and sister who gave their lives to Him as martyrs, we will reap a vengeance fiftyfold! Cadia may be no more, but will never be forgotten; our foes shall tremble in fear at the name, for their doom shall come from the barrels of Cadian guns, fired by Cadian hands! Forward, for vengeance and retribution, in His name and the names of our fallen comrades! 
   
Made in us
The Conquerer






Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios

Its worth noting that there are 'cheap' juvnat treatments. And while living conditions do suck in a lot of places, the tech level of the Imperium is still far superior to anything we have today. Cybernetics, primitive juvnat treatments, etc... will all contribute to a longer base life expectancy for normal humans who have access to them. Assuming you don't get killed by the various nasty things out there.

Guardsmen are viewed as utterly expendable. Yet even the most disposable asset of the Imperium has access to bionic replacement body parts, which kinda says a lot about the availability of medical treatments. A guardsmen just has to worry about not dying to the enemy and if that goes well he could probably expect to live longer than people do today. Sure, he's probably sinking most of his meager paycheck into those later years juvnat treatments, but they are available.

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MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





I’ve leaned on another post that GW have retconned the dark imperium timeline and we’ve only move on 12 years instead of 200 so my point is probably moot now anyway
   
Made in se
Willing Inquisitorial Excruciator





a_typical_hero wrote:
Boy did I just read an article about that

https://www.belloflostsouls.net/2020/12/warhammer-40k-gw-just-retconned-8th-edition.html

TLDR; We are back in time and short lived officers still being alive is not a problem anymore.

This was an interesting read. I’m happy that gw is seemingly stepping back from an 40k end times.

His pattern of returning alive after being declared dead occurred often enough during Cain's career that the Munitorum made a special ruling that Ciaphas Cain is to never be considered dead, despite evidence to the contrary. 
   
 
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