Switch Theme:

Does Krieg Field Female Troopers?  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
»
Author Message
Advert


Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
  • No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
  • Times and dates in your local timezone.
  • Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
  • Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
  • Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.




Made in us
Maddening Mutant Boss of Chaos





The Wastes of Krieg

I’m kind of curious, since it is hard to tell under the mask and coats.
   
Made in ca
Stormin' Stompa






It's not entirely clear, since the majority of the DKK are provided via the Vitae Womb technology, which is basically cloning. It's not specified what this process is, but chances are they're going to clone mainly males purely for the biological advantage that men have in muscle mass and bone density compared to women. There's probably some level of women conscripted into the DKK as well, but I would assume the vast majority of men. Like you said, there's functionally no difference looks-wise given their coats and masks covering the defining features.
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




1d4chan says yes....
not sure that counts though
   
Made in se
Imperial Recruit in Training



Sweden

I dont see why dkok would not use any and all troops they have, all children born on krieg are not from vitae wombs. (Deadman walking) And we dont really know if its cloning or if its maby something that speed up aging.

The Vostroyan Firstborn in the older fluff where one of the few regiment that use 100% firstborne male (but i belive that fantasy flight rpg changes it so it was the firstborne child insted.

Sorry for my bad english
   
Made in gb
Norn Queen






Now, time to make some tea before I get cancelled on social media for daring to espouse this opinion. Of course, I am not 100% versed in all official DKOK lore, so they might have all female or mixed regiments in some obscure lorebook, making all the bellow a bunch of malarky.

I don't think they do. Yes, they have vitae wombs, but natural births still occur.

A woman who stays on Kreig to have children can produce five to 10 soldiers, all the while pumping out munitions for the war effort in the factories.

A woman who joins the Death Korps produces exactly one soldier.

Likewise, I find it hard to believe that those in charge of vitae womb operation would produce female children when male children will, on average, be stronger and get up to a usable combat readiness/muscle mass quicker than female children.

Kreig isn't Cadia (Gathering Storm isn't canon go away) where every single person has to be able to strip a lasgun by the age of 5 because they are locked into a daily life or death battle, Kreig has the "luxury" of actually being a peaceful world to raise regiments.

Life might be cheap on Kreig, and even cheaper on the battlefields Kreig ship to, but it is never needlessly wasted. In fact, needless loss of life is one of the most abhorrent things to the Cult of Sacrifice. Needless death is not Sacrifice, it's a pointless waste. It robs those who die the opportunity to Sacrifice for The Emperor. I feel, given the balance of biology, logistics, and possibly culture (though that last one is simply guesswork), that it would be highly unlikely for there to be female Kreigsmen, if not outright impossible. That being said, if there ARE female Kreigsmen, they wouldn't be any less capable than the male Kreigsmen. There is no room for affirmative action on Kreig, nor any room for pointless sexism.

This message was edited 6 times. Last update was at 2020/12/17 21:13:18


 
   
Made in de
Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot






I think the point BCB makes does sound very logical and Krieg like.

One thing I might imagine though: While at least some fluff (I so far only read the Ciaphas Cain novels, but I think they are not the only ones) implies that baseline humans can act as soldiers until well in their 80s, I'm not sure the imperium has really figured out a way (or cares) to extend the reproductive time window of females. So from lets say 45-50 onwards, the Krieg-females won't birth any more soldiers and might (!) serve at the front.

~5100 build and painted 
   
Made in gb
Norn Queen






 Pyroalchi wrote:
I think the point BCB makes does sound very logical and Krieg like.

One thing I might imagine though: While at least some fluff (I so far only read the Ciaphas Cain novels, but I think they are not the only ones) implies that baseline humans can act as soldiers until well in their 80s, I'm not sure the imperium has really figured out a way (or cares) to extend the reproductive time window of females. So from lets say 45-50 onwards, the Krieg-females won't birth any more soldiers and might (!) serve at the front.
At that age, I feel like the majority of females (who didn't die in industrial accidents) would have been promoted to supervisor/leader positions. Someone who's spent 40-45 years working in a munitions plant would have a pretty good idea of how to run a tight ship and how to mitigate the dangers of making artillery shells.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/12/17 21:47:14


 
   
Made in us
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Right behind you.

Kale wrote:
1d4chan says yes....
not sure that counts though

It does not and never will.

The answer is "not that has ever been mentioned". All of the existing material points towards females not being in the Death Korps ranks.
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut




The only thing we know about Kriegs for sure is that they are born in artificial womb and have no human identity. That doesn't inform us about their bioloical sex or if they are all clones (or genebred in a way or another) or not. We could assume they are all men, or all women or a mix of both. In my opinion, they aren't clones as the Imperium seems to frown on such things. They are born from in vitro fertilisation and grown in artificial womb until they are old enough to make soliders. They are thus of both sexes.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/12/18 05:10:52


 
   
Made in gb
Stalwart Tribune





Northumberland

in the grim darkness of the far future there is only nerds talking about biological sex characteristics.

Me average man, me mighty and strong.

Surely the purpose of speeded up ivf and almost not quite but maybe cloning tech on krieg means that as a handy addition to making endless sped up armies is it frees up those folks who may have vajangos to head off to war as well as their average and strong male comrades. The war machine cares not from whence their genitalia hang so long as blood oils it.

Nobody can see anything behind the gasmasks and greatcoats anyway so if you want a couple of lasgun carrying kriegettes go for it.


One and a half feet in the hobby


My Adeptus Mechanicus Painting Log:
# The Explorator Fleet of Labrunnia IX #

 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




epronovost wrote:
The only thing we know about Kriegs for sure is that they are born in artificial womb and have no human identity. That doesn't inform us about their bioloical sex or if they are all clones (or genebred in a way or another) or not. We could assume they are all men, or all women or a mix of both. In my opinion, they aren't clones as the Imperium seems to frown on such things. They are born from in vitro fertilisation and grown in artificial womb until they are old enough to make soliders. They are thus of both sexes.


You can separate sperm prior to fertilization to create only male or only female babies in this context.

I think overall the IG could use more female depictions in the miniatures.
   
Made in pl
Longtime Dakkanaut




Ask rather- why would it matter to you? It's your dudes/ladies, no official GW police will arrest you for making female Kriegers, not even the Internet Fun Police. The universe of 40k is so large anything could happen.
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut




Hecaton wrote:
You can separate sperm prior to fertilization to create only male or only female babies in this context.


They indeed could. Do they and which one do they favor if any? That we don't know.

I think overall the IG could use more female depictions in the miniatures.


Considering th Krieg's uniform are unisex, you can't tell the difference between men and women. At best, you could say it's "male pattern clothing" due to the fact that pants and long coats are, in real life, masculine clothing, but that's pretty much it. There is no difference a 28mm model of Krief man or a Krieg woman.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/12/18 14:12:24


 
   
Made in it
Regular Dakkanaut




Hecaton wrote:
[…]
I think overall the IG could use more female depictions in the miniatures.

It is already difficult distinguish a real female soldier form a male one (see image below), in a miniature it became almost impossible. Unless you don't choose to "hypersexualize" the miniatures, but in that case the Games Workshop would be accused to objectify the women; at least this is what happened with the Sisters of Battle.


This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2020/12/18 14:41:55


The answer is inside you; but it is wrong. 
   
Made in de
Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot






An (at least for me) interesting side note: In the Ciaphas Cain novels female IG is mentioned as completely normal, just mixed-sex regiments as quite rare, since most regimentos see the following cases of fraternization as problematic for morale. But "quite rare" still not being forbidden or anything, with Cains mixed Valhallan regiment a typical example. At no point in the novels is it ever mentioned that women and men are considered as differently suited for combat. Since Lasguns and Flak Armor don't seem to be that heavy it might be that physical differences (if they are still present in the 41st millenium) are not that relevant.

And as Kriegers should rarely have said "problems" with morale in mixed regiments it's a point for female Kriegers.

~5100 build and painted 
   
Made in us
Omnipotent Necron Overlord






You can always forge your narrative. But civilizations in a life and death struggle constantly at war tend to take life choice out of the equation and allocate resources where they are most needed. Females produce a lot more soldiers not fighting on the front lines. So no - there wouldn't be. Not that you can tell with giant trench coats on anyways.

If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder 
   
Made in pl
Longtime Dakkanaut




But civilizations in a life and death struggle constantly at war tend to take life choice out of the equation and allocate resources where they are most needed.

Yes, but Imperium in 40k is eminently not allocating resources rationally, or it wouldn't just kill or lobotimize people at the drop of the hat. Sorry, it's either "Imperium is using war logic and allocating resources by cold calculation alone" or "haha commisar go blam!".
   
Made in us
Omnipotent Necron Overlord






Cronch wrote:
But civilizations in a life and death struggle constantly at war tend to take life choice out of the equation and allocate resources where they are most needed.

Yes, but Imperium in 40k is eminently not allocating resources rationally, or it wouldn't just kill or lobotimize people at the drop of the hat. Sorry, it's either "Imperium is using war logic and allocating resources by cold calculation alone" or "haha commisar go blam!".

They are willing to make a sacrifice for the good of the whole - to make an example. For certain though and I didn't really fully think this out - in a situation where a whole planet is about to be overrun. Literally everyone becomes expendable. So females would be sacrificed in full in an effort to drive out an invasion for example. That is more like militia forces though. I don't think anyone disputes female militia in this setting.

If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder 
   
Made in pl
Longtime Dakkanaut




I meant more as a whole. People use the "oh it's total war" argument a lot with imperium to justify this and that, but it is impossible to apply it in face of imperium's blatant lack of actual rational behavior in just about any aspect of life. 40k is not a functional setting, it's literally whatever you want it to be with thin veneer of respectable lore.
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut




Cronch wrote:
I meant more as a whole. People use the "oh it's total war" argument a lot with imperium to justify this and that


Fun thing to note, in case of total war gender barriers in various occupation fall as to other physical or racial barriers too. In case of total war, you will see people get enlisted while in time of peace or light activity, they would have been rejected on various growds. On a "rationnal" ground, immediate needs to survive is more important than long term stability and prosperity.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/12/18 17:05:16


 
   
Made in it
Regular Dakkanaut




Actually not: the nazi Germany did never enlisted the women, not even during the 1945; for example.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/12/18 17:43:54


The answer is inside you; but it is wrong. 
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut




The_Grim_Angel wrote:
Actually not: the nazi Germany did never enlisted the women, not even during the 1945; for example.


Actually yes, the volkssturm units of the later part of the war was composed of both men and women (though still majoritarily men). There were also several women enlisted in the SS as prison and death camps guards in the later stage of the war too.

PS: note that the Germans also lost that war, thankully.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/12/18 19:02:32


 
   
Made in it
Regular Dakkanaut




Well, the volksstrum wasn't an actual army: it was an ineffective reserve, poorly equipped, poorly trained, created to avoid the unavoidable; for some point of view they were more similar to the Planetary Defense Forces, than the Imperial Guard.
Instead, like you said the female S.S. didn't were combat troops, but support troops; like also all the women enlisted in the Wehrmacht.
None of these roles were something comparable to a first line infantry corps like the Death Korps of Krieg; or any infantry units in the modern armies.

This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2020/12/18 19:28:36


The answer is inside you; but it is wrong. 
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut




The_Grim_Angel wrote:
Well, the volksstrum wasn't an actual army: it was an ineffective reserve, poorly equipped, poorly trained, created to avoid the unavoidable.


Pedantry and goalpost moving aside on their training and equipment, they were a uniformed group of armed people responding a proper chain of command. That makes them an army, a poorly trained and equipped army, but an army nonetheless. It's also good to note that while the volkssturm certainly were poorly trained and couldn't possibly win the war, they did make a fine account for themselves on certain occasions, especially while slowing down armor advance in urban areas. They were used as speed bumps and support artillery and fire supression units much like Krieg infantry itself.
   
Made in it
Regular Dakkanaut




epronovost wrote:
The_Grim_Angel wrote:
Well, the volksstrum wasn't an actual army: it was an ineffective reserve, poorly equipped, poorly trained, created to avoid the unavoidable.


Pedantry and goalpost moving aside on their training and equipment, they were a uniformed group of armed people responding a proper chain of command. That makes them an army, a poorly trained and equipped army, but an army nonetheless.
[…]

Actually that make them a militia (a body of citizens enrolled for military service, called out at regular periods for drill but serving full time only in emergencies) composed by old men, women, boys, not a actual army, which is composed by full-time soldiers, eventually reinforced by reservist soldiers, who are activated only during a war.

Anyway this is only a boring off topic and I'm sorry because I have started it.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/12/18 21:32:42


The answer is inside you; but it is wrong. 
   
Made in gb
Battleship Captain




Hecaton wrote:
epronovost wrote:
The only thing we know about Kriegs for sure is that they are born in artificial womb and have no human identity. That doesn't inform us about their bioloical sex or if they are all clones (or genebred in a way or another) or not. We could assume they are all men, or all women or a mix of both. In my opinion, they aren't clones as the Imperium seems to frown on such things. They are born from in vitro fertilisation and grown in artificial womb until they are old enough to make soliders. They are thus of both sexes.


You can separate sperm prior to fertilization to create only male or only female babies in this context.

I think overall the IG could use more female depictions in the miniatures.


Definitely. One thing I will credit FFG for in the RPG art is pointedly adding more female troopers - and I agree, faces aside in Cadian or tempestus armour there's little obvious difference.

Catachan T-shirts are different, obviously.

Termagants expended for the Hive Mind: ~2835
 
   
Made in ch
Warped Arch Heretic of Chaos





half the Abyss cultists and BSF traitor guard were female, FWIW.

But then again Chaos is an equal opportunity employer, all are similarly worthless

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/12/19 12:27:28


https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page
A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

In the 41st millennium there is only overpriced hamberders.

 
   
Made in us
Drone without a Controller




Les Etats Unis

Not Online!!! wrote:
half the Abyss cultists and BSF traitor guard were female, FWIW.

But then again Chaos is an equal opportunity employer, all are similarly worthless


Don't misrepresent Chaos; I'm sure most heretic chapters are more than willing to recognize the cultists' worth. After all, without them, the CSMs would have to be the ones doing the menial labor and serving as bolter fodder against loyalists, Certainly no one would want that.

On a more serious note, I would be willing to bet that at the very least, the Word Bearers and possibly the Alpha Legion have some respect for non-SM cultists, given how pivotal they are in those chapters' MOs. Probably can't say the same for the rest of the chapters or the demons themselves, though.

Dudeface wrote:
 Eldarain wrote:
Is there another game where players consistently blame each other for the failings of the creator?

If you want to get existential, life for some.
 
   
Made in ch
Warped Arch Heretic of Chaos





 Flipsiders wrote:
Not Online!!! wrote:
half the Abyss cultists and BSF traitor guard were female, FWIW.

But then again Chaos is an equal opportunity employer, all are similarly worthless


Don't misrepresent Chaos; I'm sure most heretic chapters are more than willing to recognize the cultists' worth. After all, without them, the CSMs would have to be the ones doing the menial labor and serving as bolter fodder against loyalists, Certainly no one would want that.

On a more serious note, I would be willing to bet that at the very least, the Word Bearers and possibly the Alpha Legion have some respect for non-SM cultists, given how pivotal they are in those chapters' MOs. Probably can't say the same for the rest of the chapters or the demons themselves, though.


AL pretty much has non Marines in high ranking positions, high ranking enough to interject in planning phases.
Granted those operatives also got slightly upgraded. But considering that they are a necessity to hide them in the materium i'd expect a decent sized amount of respect.

And WB? They only care so long the dark path get's walked on.
As an aside, Chaos is indeed an equal opportunity employer, there's a nice text in IA13 in regards to Chaos covenants that even puny little mortals that achieve something decent can get ascension into daemonhood.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/12/19 13:09:57


https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page
A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

In the 41st millennium there is only overpriced hamberders.

 
   
Made in gb
Mekboy Hammerin' Somethin'





Dorset, England

Just a quick thought on this; don't male babies have a higher mortality rate than female babies? (Apolgies if my science is bad)
If the only goal is to put bodies in the field then it would make more sense to clone females to me.
   
 
Forum Index » 40K Background
Go to: