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Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut


Trying to get my head around flesh tearers and relics because GW wording is odd and wanted to check i also notes BS is in disagreement with me and how I original interpreted it at a glance

1) " chapter relics
Blood angels successor chapters have access to special- issue wargear relics; relics of the angels cannot be given to a character model from a successor chapter (other than the flesh tearers) unless you use the honoured by the arx angelica strategem.

Now when it comes to the relic page
2) " if you army is led by a blood angels warlord you can when mustering your army give one of the following relics for all rules purposes instead of giving them a relic from codex space marines they are considered to be chapter relics for all rules purposes. Named characters and vehicle models cannot be given any of the following relics."

Then follows a list of relics the last two being marked flesh tearers models. The other 5 are not marked blood angels only.

Further more in the glossary it states
3) " relics of the angels: a type if relic that can be given to blood angels character models this also includes relics that can only be given to flesh tearer character models.

So I interpret the first quote as allowing flesh tearers to take relics of the angel.

The flesh tearers only relics I interpret as being takeable by flesh tearers but not BA (that's obvious and confirmed in the third quote)

Now since a flesh tearers are exempted from the usual restriction of taking back BA relics and the non FT only relics are not marked as blood angels only i would assume that FT can take them (i note the only reference to BA is in the second quote to a BA warlord that would also apply to the FT only relics) while the third quote describes flesh tearers only but doesn't state blood angels only, instead can be given to blood angels character models which is non exclusionary.

So assuming I can take them this works fine for visage if death hammer of baal and galan staff.

But Wrath of baal and icon of the angel create auras that refer to BA units. Their are notes that for warlord traits or psychic powers to replace the BA wording with the successor chapters it also says to do this if you took the relic as a successor useing the arx angelicum strategem but their is no direct rule to do this for relics.

So do the relics wording get altered by the generic wording changing it for datasheets or am I stuck with the non functioning wording unless I use the arx angelica strategem

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/03/19 00:44:47

Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut

Edit: The first quote is obviously referring to the FT-only relics with the FT caveat. The second quote restricts the relics to BA only. If anything, I would argue RAW means a FT character can't take the FT-only relics because of the rules text at the top of the relics page. This is obviously absurd.

The rules are badly written but I don't think it's too difficult to discern what GW meant (note this is in the realms of HIWPI). Unless using the specific stratagem mentioned BA can take any of the relics except the FT-only ones and FT can only take the FT-only relics. Any BA or successor can take the Special-Issue Wargear.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/03/18 14:59:36

Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut



1) " chapter relics
Blood angels successor chapters have access to special- issue wargear relics; relics of the angels cannot be given to a character model from a successor chapter (other than the flesh tearers) unless you use the honoured by the arx angelica strategem

Where does it say flesh tearers relics only - why is this obvious? that would seem entirely contradictory to the wording? (I'm not saying it couldn't be an intention just that it's not RAW).

The second quote covers all the relics both BA and flesh tearers if your claiming it restricts to BA only that means that FT would not be able to take their own relics which as you say is absurd - so I don't think we can interpret it that way and instead should interpret the blood angels keyword as interchangeable for (Chapter that has permission to take blood angel relics) as that functions.

Why is it unreasonable to think that GW might intend for flesh tearers to have access to the same number of relics as BA or to think they should have access to them all?

It is clear the flesh tearers are treated as somewhere between a successor chapter and a full chapter. Having their own unique relic warlord traits and chapter tactics. The rules differentiate in a number of places how they access these things to other successor chapters (the exception in this case) but also not being able to access BA WL traits even with an exemption to this in the double WL trait stratagem as another example.

It's not that I cant see your interpretation as being an option for how the intention could be, it was my initial at a glance thought. However, it seems incongruent with the RAW. and while your saying it should work that way your not giving me a rules-based answer why it should work that way.

I agree with you that the rules are badly written and that therefore trying to discern GW intention is probably irrelevant - their all equally likely because the answer is we just don't know.

We therefore should probably stick as close to RAW as possible and im pretty sure thats not with a FT relic only interpretation.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/03/18 15:34:46

Made in ca
Pestilent Plague Marine with Blight Grenade

The Frozen North

While it's likely an oversight, I would say that Flesh Tearers have access to all of the Relics of the Angels - but, as you note, certain relics will be non-functional unless you use the Honoured by the Arx Angelicum stratagem.

Triggerbaby wrote:In summary, here's your lunch and ask Miss Creaver if she has aloe lotion because I have taken you to school and you have been burned.

Abadabadoobaddon wrote:I too can prove pretty much any assertion I please if I don't count all the evidence that contradicts it.
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