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Made in us
Irked Necron Immortal





Jackson, TN

So, here is an interaction that I did not see an answer already for.

Root question: When a Leman Russ Tank is able to use it's Grinding advance ability is there time between the two attack sequences for the turret weapon?

A couple of possibilities I see are these:

-----
L.Russ is chosen to shoot in the Shooting Phase. Since it is a vehicle they must declare all weapons and their targets before doing anything else.

They pick the Punisher Cannon to shoot at Necron warriors.

They pick the Hull/Pintle/Sponson weapons to target some unit(s).

Resolve all shots.

Reanimation protocol (if applicable) due to the Unit is done shooting.

The L.Russ did not more or moved less than half, so they pick that same L.Russ' Punisher Cannon to shoot at the Necron Warriors

Reanimation protocol (if applicable) due to the unit is done shooting again.
-----

Or is it more like this:
-----
L.Russ is chosen to shoot in the Shooting Phase. Since it is a vehicle they must declare all weapons and their targets before doing anything else.

They pick the Punisher Cannon to shoot at Necron warriors.

The L.Russ did not more or moved less than half, so they pick the Punisher Cannon to shoot at the Necron Warriors again.

They pick the Hull/Pintle/Sponson weapons to target some unit(s).

Resolve shots.

Reanimation Protocol for any applicable Necron units.
-----

Or is it something different?
   
Made in de
Prophetic Blood Angel Librarian






Germany

Necrons get to do their RP rolls after you shot twice with your turret weapon. You must target the same unit with the turret weapon, and you are not shooting again. The "shoot again" part from the rare rules on p. 361 doesnt apply.
   
Made in gb
Wrathful Warlord Titan Commander






London

Codex: Imperial Guard, p.86 wrote:If this model moves under half speed in its Movement phase..., it can shoot its turret weapon twice in the following Shooting phase


From that I would say yes, you get your RP rolls from the first volley before the second one is fired.

   
Made in de
Prophetic Blood Angel Librarian






Germany

 Valkyrie wrote:
Codex: Imperial Guard, p.86 wrote:If this model moves under half speed in its Movement phase..., it can shoot its turret weapon twice in the following Shooting phase


From that I would say yes, you get your RP rolls from the first volley before the second one is fired.


RP is activated after the enemy unit makes it attacks. The leman russ has not made his attacks after the first volley. Wait, actually it did. Which brings me to an interesting point about RP, it doesnt say after it makes all of its attacks. When exactly does RP activate ? After one weapon has made its attacks ? After two weapons ? After all weapons ?

REANIMATION PROTOCOLS
Each time an enemy unit shoots or fights, after it makes its attacks, if any models in this unit were destroyed as a result of those attacks but this unit was not destroyed, this unit's reanimation protocols are enacted and those destroyed models begin to reassemble.
   
Made in ca
Jinking Ravenwing Land Speeder Pilot



Canada

After a unit makes its attacks. Enacting RP after one weapon but before another would not be "after a unit makes its attacks."

All you have to do is fire three rounds a minute, and stand 
   
Made in us
Confessor Of Sins




Tacoma, WA, USA

Astra Militarum FAQ wrote:Grinding Advance
If this model Remains Stationary or moves under half speed in its Movement phase (i.e. it moves a distance in inches less than half of its current Move characteristic) it can shoot its turret weapon twice in the following Shooting phase (the turret weapon must target the same unit both times). The following weapons are turret weapons: battle cannon; eradicator nova cannon; exterminator autocannon; vanquisher battle cannon; demolisher cannon; executioner plasma cannon; punisher gatling cannon.
Warhammer 40,000 Rare Rules wrote:Shoot Again
Some rules allow units (or sometimes models or weapons) to shoot again in the Shooting phase, or shoot 'as if it were the Shooting phase'. Such rules cannot be used on a unit unless it is eligible to shoot a the time when the rule is used.

When a unit shoots again, any model in that unit that have already shot with any of the weapons they are equipped with earlier in that phase can shoot with those weapons one additional time. When a model shoots again, that model can shoot with any weapon it is equipped with that it already shot with earlier in that phase one additional time. When a model can shoot with a specific weapon again, that model can shoot with it one additional time if it has already shot with it earlier in that phase.

If a rule allows a unit, model, or weapon to shoot again, then it must completely resolve its first shooting attacks before resolving the second. This can be at a different target. If a rule is used to make a unit shoot again at the end of the Shooting phase, the phase does not end until after all these rules have been resolved.
Per the three highlighted sections of the rules for Grinding Advance and Shoot Again, the LR must fully resolve it's first shooting attacks before it can resolve the second shooting attack from Grinding Advance. Therefore the Necron unit gets to use Reanimation Protocols before the second shooting attack of the turret weapon.
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka




Vanished Completely

Thank you AlexTroy, for such a precise answer.

Makes it easier for me to point out you could even choose to shoot the Lemon Russ (Spell checker, I will let you keep that one) first and then resolve other attacks before returning to select it a second time. There really is little reason to do this, due to the requirement to target the same Unit, but maybe those protocol results are something that change your mind? Just resolve your first lot of attacks and find yourself back at the 'select a unit' step of the process (I assume it is there, really out of the loop) and choose some other Unit.

After all:
Permission to select a unit twice isn't a requirement to immediately select it again, unless I am missing something?

Added:
Actually find that to be quite the plausible situation, as waiting to see casualties before you commit another Unit is normal. Being forced to do Protocol first makes this situation become far more critical for any Guard General out there, and I am always in favour of making things even more tactical. They may get their Protocol but you get a little bit of a breather to re-evaluate the situation and determine if weakening them with additional firepower before having the tank finish them off is even worth it.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/04/20 04:56:27


8th made it so I can no longer sway Tau onto the side of Chaos, but they will eventually turn aside from their idea of the Greater Good to embrace the Greatest of pleasures.  
   
Made in de
Prophetic Blood Angel Librarian






Germany

TangoTwoBravo wrote:
After a unit makes its attacks. Enacting RP after one weapon but before another would not be "after a unit makes its attacks."


When i make two attacks, then its not "after a unit makes its attacks" ? RP doesnt say after a unit makes ALL of its attacks.

 alextroy wrote:
Per the three highlighted sections of the rules for Grinding Advance and Shoot Again, the LR must fully resolve it's first shooting attacks before it can resolve the second shooting attack from Grinding Advance. Therefore the Necron unit gets to use Reanimation Protocols before the second shooting attack of the turret weapon.


Except GA doesnt say its shooting again. It shoots twice, and it must target the same unit with its turret weapon. The "shoot again" clarification from the rare rules doesnt apply, it also says you can target something else, which GA disallows.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/04/20 08:22:35


 
   
Made in us
Confessor Of Sins




Tacoma, WA, USA

And what does shoots twice mean? The only rules we have to cover it are the rules for Shoot Again. Those rules support my interpretation. There are no other rules to cover how to resolve shoots twice. Assuming it means something other that that is not supported by rules, just a overly pedantic reading of the rule.

As for the same target part of the rule, that is a specific limitation of GA and has no bearing as to whether Shoot Twice is Shoot Again.
   
Made in de
Prophetic Blood Angel Librarian






Germany

 alextroy wrote:
And what does shoots twice mean?


That it shoots twice. There are fundamental differences between GA and the "shoot again" rare rules entry. The LRBT is not shooting again, because that means that it fires with all of its weapons, as written in the "shoot again" entry. Only its main gun is shooting twice. GA says it must target the same unit, "shoot again" says it can target a different unit.
   
Made in us
Confessor Of Sins




Tacoma, WA, USA

You’ll want to read Shoots Again again. It specifically notes it can apply to units, models, or weapons. I even highlighted the part about when it applies to a weapon in my post above.
   
Made in de
Prophetic Blood Angel Librarian






Germany

Ok, it applies to a single weapon shooting again, but not twice.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/04/20 15:51:03


 
   
Made in us
Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord





In My Lab

 p5freak wrote:
Ok, it applies to a single weapon shooting again, but not twice.
If I'm your boss, and I tell you one day "Check your report, then check it again," and the next day I tell you "Check your report twice," was what I said meaningfully different in any fashion?

If GW had more precise, technical writings, I'd agree that "Again" and "Twice" are not the same word. But given GW's shoddy writing, it's a pretty damn big stretch to say that a rule from an entire edition ago has "Shoot twice" mean something different from "Shoot again".

Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne! 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka




Vanished Completely

Even 'Technical reading,' which Game Workshop is really well known for (sarcasm) wouldn't support this:
What is the Technical Process for Shooting?
If we where to follow this process twice, what happens?

This is why we are informed we have to target the same Unit, we are going through the whole process twice!
Not just adding a few extra shots onto the attack we are currently resolving....

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/04/21 02:10:02


8th made it so I can no longer sway Tau onto the side of Chaos, but they will eventually turn aside from their idea of the Greater Good to embrace the Greatest of pleasures.  
   
 
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