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Made in us
Freaky Flayed One






Hello everyone!

I've recently realized that while the SK is a dynastic agent, he also has the specific dynasty keyword for his dynasty "Szarekhan." In order for the army to benefit from Command Protocols, every detachment must have the same dynasty. If I wanted to use Sautekh (as an example) but also include the SK I could assign the Sautekh dynasty to the Supreme Command Detachment as well as whatever other detachment(s) I decide to run. He doesn't have a variable dynasty tag, so my assumption is that he would never gain any other dynasty benefits, but I'm unclear about what would happen to his Szarekhan dynasty tag at that point. My question arises here -- Does he lose those benefits all together? Does the SK having listed his specific dynasty mean that he (alone) gains the benefits of the Szarekhan dynasty even though his detachment (and the rest of the army) would gain the beneft of the Sautekh dynasty? And if the latter is the case, does that still follow the rules and enable CP for the army?

Thanks!

8000 
   
Made in us
Lieutenant General





Florence, KY

From 'Dynastic Codes', page 51 of Codex Necrons:

All NECRONS units with this ability, and all the models in them, gain a Dynastic Code so long as every unit in that Detachment is from the same dynasty.

And from 'Dynastic Agents and Star Gods' on the same page:

DYNASTIC AGENT and C'TAN SHARD units can be included in a NECRONS Detachment without preventing other units in that Detachment from gaining a Dynastic Code.

Therefore the Silent King will never benefit from the Dynastic Codes unless he is in a SZAREKHAN Detachment.

'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents
cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable
defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'

- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty
Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
 
   
Made in us
Freaky Flayed One






 Ghaz wrote:
From 'Dynastic Codes', page 51 of Codex Necrons:

All NECRONS units with this ability, and all the models in them, gain a Dynastic Code so long as every unit in that Detachment is from the same dynasty.

And from 'Dynastic Agents and Star Gods' on the same page:

DYNASTIC AGENT and C'TAN SHARD units can be included in a NECRONS Detachment without preventing other units in that Detachment from gaining a Dynastic Code.

Therefore the Silent King will never benefit from the Dynastic Codes unless he is in a SZAREKHAN Detachment.


Thanks for this, I somehow forgot entirely about the bottom section of this page.

But to continue the quote it does say that "Dynastic Agent and C'tan Shard units never gain a Dynastic Code." Would this not also imply that the SK unit wouldn't benefit from the Szarekhan dynastic codes even in a Szarekhan dynasty? This question kind of wraps back around to: how do we reconcile that with him specifically having the Szarekhan keyword while also being a Dynastic Agent (since his unit is the only one in the entire codex that is listed as a Dynastic Agent but also has a dynasty keyword)?

My apologies if this is coming across as repetitive, I'm simply seeing an overlap here that I can't reconcile.

edit:
There's a caveat I've thought of here also --> detachment contains only 1 unit, therefore regardless of what dynasty was declared for that detachment, if SK is the only unit then RAW says all units in that detachment are of the same dynasty. Based on this, it seems like it wouldn't really matter what the rest of the army's dynasty is since they're in a separate detachment (which likely has all units being a single dynasty).

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/04/30 22:26:51


8000 
   
Made in us
Lieutenant General





Florence, KY

Once again, from page 21 of Codex Necrons:

DYNASTIC AGENT and C'TAN SHARD units never gain a Dynastic Code.

This is because those keywords are not used to fill the <DYNASTY> Faction Keyword (i.e., they're literally not from a Necron Dynasty).

All NECRONS units with this ability, and all the models in them, gain a Dynastic Code so long as every unit in that Detachment is from the same dynasty.

The Silent King does gain a Dynastic Code as long as every unit in that Detachment is from the Szarekhan Dynasty because he has the SZAREKHAN Faction Keyword.

'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents
cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable
defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'

- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty
Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
 
   
Made in us
Freaky Flayed One






 Ghaz wrote:
Once again, from page 21 of Codex Necrons:

DYNASTIC AGENT and C'TAN SHARD units never gain a Dynastic Code.

This is because those keywords are not used to fill the <DYNASTY> Faction Keyword (i.e., they're literally not from a Necron Dynasty).

All NECRONS units with this ability, and all the models in them, gain a Dynastic Code so long as every unit in that Detachment is from the same dynasty.

The Silent King does gain a Dynastic Code as long as every unit in that Detachment is from the Szarekhan Dynasty because he has the SZAREKHAN Faction Keyword.


Okay thanks that does clarify things.

8000 
   
Made in de
Prophetic Blood Angel Librarian






Germany

 Ghaz wrote:
Once again, from page 21 of Codex Necrons:

DYNASTIC AGENT and C'TAN SHARD units never gain a Dynastic Code.

This is because those keywords are not used to fill the <DYNASTY> Faction Keyword (i.e., they're literally not from a Necron Dynasty).

All NECRONS units with this ability, and all the models in them, gain a Dynastic Code so long as every unit in that Detachment is from the same dynasty.

The Silent King does gain a Dynastic Code as long as every unit in that Detachment is from the Szarekhan Dynasty because he has the SZAREKHAN Faction Keyword.


No, because you already quoted that DYNASTIC AGENT never gains a dynastic code. The silent king has the DYNASTIC AGENT keyword.
   
Made in us
Freaky Flayed One






 p5freak wrote:
 Ghaz wrote:
Once again, from page 21 of Codex Necrons:

DYNASTIC AGENT and C'TAN SHARD units never gain a Dynastic Code.

This is because those keywords are not used to fill the <DYNASTY> Faction Keyword (i.e., they're literally not from a Necron Dynasty).

All NECRONS units with this ability, and all the models in them, gain a Dynastic Code so long as every unit in that Detachment is from the same dynasty.

The Silent King does gain a Dynastic Code as long as every unit in that Detachment is from the Szarekhan Dynasty because he has the SZAREKHAN Faction Keyword.


No, because you already quoted that DYNASTIC AGENT never gains a dynastic code. The silent king has the DYNASTIC AGENT keyword.


This is the contention that spawned my initial question. Either he always gets the Szerakhan dynastic codes because he's specifically listed as being from that dynasty, or he never gets any because he's a Dynastic Agent. Since there's no discussion in the codex about explicitly being from a dynasty providing those codes, it feels like the explicit Dynastic Agent keyword and accompanying rules would supersede that and prevent him from ever gaining any dynastic codes.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/05/01 19:21:23


8000 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran






While convoluted, the rules aren't actually conflicting. As stated, a Dynastic Agent can never GAIN a Dynastic Code. The other rule says that all Necron units with THIS ability gain a Dynastic Code so long as every unit in that Detachment is from the same dynasty.

Therefore, because he is a Dynastic Agent, he can never GAIN a Dynastic Code. However, he ALREADY HAS an assigned Dynasty and thus counts as being part of that Dynasty for the purposes of determining Detachment Dynasty. So a LoW Detachment with the SK can either be Szarekhan Dynasty or mixed Dynasty. As a model with the Szarekhan Dynasty keyword, he benefits normally from associated Dynasty rules.

TLDR: The Dynastic Agent merely states he can't gain a Dynasty keyword, it does not negate one that he already has nor states that he cannot gain benefits associated with it.
   
Made in us
Freaky Flayed One






 SergentSilver wrote:
TLDR: The Dynastic Agent merely states he can't gain a Dynasty keyword, it does not negate one that he already has nor states that he cannot gain benefits associated with it.


This is logic I can follow, and at least for me, clears things up. I didn't take enough notice of the use of the verbiage 'gain' which does seem to indicate it matters only for models that don't already have an explicitly stated Dynastic Code. So that answers my question pretty clearly: he always uses the Szarekhan dynastic codes as he is always (explicitly) from that dynasty. Thanks!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/05/01 20:25:02


8000 
   
Made in de
Prophetic Blood Angel Librarian






Germany

 SergentSilver wrote:
While convoluted, the rules aren't actually conflicting. As stated, a Dynastic Agent can never GAIN a Dynastic Code. The other rule says that all Necron units with THIS ability gain a Dynastic Code so long as every unit in that Detachment is from the same dynasty.

Therefore, because he is a Dynastic Agent, he can never GAIN a Dynastic Code. However, he ALREADY HAS an assigned Dynasty and thus counts as being part of that Dynasty for the purposes of determining Detachment Dynasty. So a LoW Detachment with the SK can either be Szarekhan Dynasty or mixed Dynasty. As a model with the Szarekhan Dynasty keyword, he benefits normally from associated Dynasty rules.

TLDR: The Dynastic Agent merely states he can't gain a Dynasty keyword, it does not negate one that he already has nor states that he cannot gain benefits associated with it.


No. The silent king does have the SZAREKHAN keyword, but he doesnt gain the uncanny artificer dynastic code, because he has the DYNASTIC AGENT keyword which prevents him from gaining a dynastic code.
   
Made in ca
Pestilent Plague Marine with Blight Grenade





The Frozen North

 SergentSilver wrote:
TLDR: The Dynastic Agent merely states he can't gain a Dynasty keyword, it does not negate one that he already has nor states that he cannot gain benefits associated with it.

Incorrect - you are conflating the Dynasty keyword with a Dynastic Code. They are not one and the same. A Dynastic Agent or C'Tan Shard can have a selected Dynasty (for instance, Tesseract Vaults) but not gain the associated Dynastic Code.

Suppose you had a Patrol Detachment. You have a SAUTEKH Overlord, and a unit of 20 NIHILAKH Warriors. Both units have selected a Dynasty. However, neither gains the associated Dynastic Code because their detachment includes multiple, different Dynasties.

Dynasties =/= Dynastic Codes.

TL;DR - The Silent King will never gain the Uncanny Artificers Dynastic Code, or any other Dynastic Code.

Triggerbaby wrote:In summary, here's your lunch and ask Miss Creaver if she has aloe lotion because I have taken you to school and you have been burned.

Abadabadoobaddon wrote:I too can prove pretty much any assertion I please if I don't count all the evidence that contradicts it.
 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran






p5freak wrote:
 SergentSilver wrote:
While convoluted, the rules aren't actually conflicting. As stated, a Dynastic Agent can never GAIN a Dynastic Code. The other rule says that all Necron units with THIS ability gain a Dynastic Code so long as every unit in that Detachment is from the same dynasty.

Therefore, because he is a Dynastic Agent, he can never GAIN a Dynastic Code. However, he ALREADY HAS an assigned Dynasty and thus counts as being part of that Dynasty for the purposes of determining Detachment Dynasty. So a LoW Detachment with the SK can either be Szarekhan Dynasty or mixed Dynasty. As a model with the Szarekhan Dynasty keyword, he benefits normally from associated Dynasty rules.

TLDR: The Dynastic Agent merely states he can't gain a Dynasty keyword, it does not negate one that he already has nor states that he cannot gain benefits associated with it.


No. The silent king does have the SZAREKHAN keyword, but he doesnt gain the uncanny artificer dynastic code, because he has the DYNASTIC AGENT keyword which prevents him from gaining a dynastic code.


MinMax wrote:
 SergentSilver wrote:
TLDR: The Dynastic Agent merely states he can't gain a Dynasty keyword, it does not negate one that he already has nor states that he cannot gain benefits associated with it.

Incorrect - you are conflating the Dynasty keyword with a Dynastic Code. They are not one and the same. A Dynastic Agent or C'Tan Shard can have a selected Dynasty (for instance, Tesseract Vaults) but not gain the associated Dynastic Code.

Suppose you had a Patrol Detachment. You have a SAUTEKH Overlord, and a unit of 20 NIHILAKH Warriors. Both units have selected a Dynasty. However, neither gains the associated Dynastic Code because their detachment includes multiple, different Dynasties.

Dynasties =/= Dynastic Codes.

TL;DR - The Silent King will never gain the Uncanny Artificers Dynastic Code, or any other Dynastic Code.


My apologies, I stand corrected. I will attribute this to end of semester stress and quietly smack myself for my foolishness.
   
Made in us
Lieutenant General





Florence, KY

From the Codex Necrons FAQ v1.2, updated today 2 June 2021:

Q: If my army includes a Supreme Command Detachment consisting of The Silent King, is that Detachment a Szarekhan Detachment, and if so does it benefit from the Uncanny Artificers Dynastic Code and does it grant access to the Szarekhan Stratagem?

A: Yes, it would be a Szarekhan Detachment. As such, you will gain access to the Szarekhan Stratagem. Note, however, that as The Silent King has the Dynastic Agent keyword, it will not receive the Uncanny Artificers Dynastic Code

'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents
cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable
defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'

- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty
Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
 
   
 
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