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Made in gb
Dakka Veteran




What's the point of a Drop Pod if you can't drop it right on top of someone? Not sure if Inertial Guidance System should be a Stratagem, though...

Drop Pod Assault
During deployment, you must set up this unit high in the skies instead of setting it up on the battlefield. Neither it, nor any units embarked within it, are counted towards any limits that the mission you are playing places on the maximum number of Reinforcement units you can have in your army. This model can be set up in the Reinforcements step of your first, second or third Movement phase, regardless of any mission rules. Any units embarked within this model must immediately disembark after it has been set up on the battlefield, and after this model has been set up on the battlefield, no units can embark within it.

When you set up this model, you must set it up with a Devastator Drop, Tactical Drop or Assault Drop:
  • Devastator Drop: Set up this model, and any units that disembark from it, anywhere on the battlefield that is more than 9" away from any enemy models.
  • Tactical Drop: Set up this model, and any units that disembark from it, anywhere on the battlefield that is more than 5" away from any enemy models. These units cannot charge in the same turn.
  • Assault Drop: Set up this model, and any units that disembark from it, anywhere on the battlefield that is not within Engagement Range of any enemy models. These units cannot charge or shoot this turn. Then, roll a D6 for each enemy unit within 3" of this model (subtract 1 from the result if the unit is a CHARACTER). On a 2-4, that unit suffers 1 mortal wound. On a 5+, that unit suffers D3 mortal wounds.

  • Inertial Guidance System
    In the Reinforcements step of your Movement phase, if this model is set up high in the skies and you could set it up as Reinforcements that turn, you can select one point on the battlefield and place a marker on that point. In the Reinforcements step of your next Movement phase, set up this model with an Assault Drop (see Drop Pod Assault) as close as possible to the centre of that marker. The marker is then removed. If a model is set up in this way, that model and any units that disembark from it can shoot and charge normally this turn.


    Drop Pod (Power Rating 4)
    Spoiler:
    Drop Pod: M -; WS -; BS 3+; S 6; T 6; W 8; A -; Ld 8; Sv 3+

    A Drop Pod is equipped with: storm bolter.

    New Wargear
  • Dreadnought bay: Instead of 10 <CHAPTER> INFANTRY models, this model has a transport capacity of 1 <CHAPTER> DREADNOUGHT with a Wounds characteristic of 9 or less. You can only include 1 model with a Dreadnought bay for each such DREADNOUGHT in the same Detachment. This model does not take up slots in a Detachment.

  • Wargear Options
  • This model’s storm bolter can be replaced with one of the following: 1 deathwind launcher; 1 Dreadnought bay.

  • Abilities
  • Angels of Death; Explodes: See Codex: Space Marines.
  • Drop Pod Assault: See above.
  • Inertial Guidance System: See above.

  • Transport
    This model has a transport capacity of 10 <CHAPTER> INFANTRY models. Each JUMP PACK, PRIMARIS, WULFEN or TERMINATOR model takes up the space of 2 models. It cannot transport CENTURION or MK X GRAVIS models.
    Keywords
  • Faction: IMPERIUM, ADEPTUS ASTARTES, <CHAPTER>
  • Keywords: VEHICLE, TRANSPORT, DROP POD
  • This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2021/05/22 13:09:56


     
       
    Made in us
    Monster-Slaying Daemonhunter




    Yeah, no. Please god no MW strikes on first turn. Also, please no 3" alpha strikes. I mean, what are you trying to accomplish?
       
    Made in us
    Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord





    In My Lab

    Normally I feel Fezzik overreacts, but in this case, I agree with him.

    This is pretty much a straight buff to Drop Pods, and while they might not see a ton of competitive use right now, that's more a sign that the SM Dex has so much other BETTER stuff, than Pods being bad. It's also not a very fun mechanic-there's no real counterplay.

    Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne! 
       
    Made in gb
    Dakka Veteran




    FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
    Yeah, no. Please god no MW strikes on first turn.
    Basically just the Mawloc's "Terror From The Deep" ability but with a lower average of mortal wounds, and non-repeatable, on a model that can't fight like the Mawloc.

    FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
    Also, please no 3" alpha strikes.
    I mean, you can't charge? So it's not really an alpha strike. 9" away + charge is functionally barely different from 3" away + can't charge, from an assault perspective; anyone nearby can just... move 6" away on their turn. Then it's the exact same distance to charge. Tactical Drop just gives you more options as to where to place yourself.

    Unless you're talking about Inertial Guidance Systems, but those introduce a 1-turn delay, so it's functionally the same. The enemy can just... move away.
    FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
    I mean, what are you trying to accomplish?
    Good question! The lore is packed with drop pods crashing down right into enemy formations like a bombardment, crushing and scattering foes before unleashing Space Marines directly into them. In practice, Drop Pods touch down gently at a safe distance from an enemy unit, and then its marines jog into combat.

    So I wanted three things:
  • A way to ensure Drop Pods could be deployed even if the enemy had bubbled the whole/most of the board in 9", since it's literally all they're for.
  • A way to represent the damage that it should be possible to cause by slamming Drop Pods directly into the enemy.
  • A way to deliver Drop Pods "directly" to the enemy lines for an assault.

  • All without breaking the no set-up-and-charge within 9" restriction more than it already is (e.g. move-then-disembark).
       
    Made in us
    Decrepit Dakkanaut




     JNAProductions wrote:
    Normally I feel Fezzik overreacts, but in this case, I agree with him.

    This is pretty much a straight buff to Drop Pods, and while they might not see a ton of competitive use right now, that's more a sign that the SM Dex has so much other BETTER stuff, than Pods being bad. It's also not a very fun mechanic-there's no real counterplay.

    Drop Pods aren't seeing play because there's almost no units currently that you would want in them except maybe Devastators and Sternguard, and the whole silly thing about them not being able to take Primaris and losing capability to take Terminator models or Dreads.


    Automatically Appended Next Post:
    For reference, I bring up Terminator models as in HQs, it was rare you'd ever want to take Terminators in Drop Pods but you at least could.

    This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/05/01 21:10:04


    CaptainStabby wrote:
    If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

     jy2 wrote:
    BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

     vipoid wrote:
    Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

     MarsNZ wrote:
    ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
     
       
    Made in ca
    Secretive Dark Angels Veteran




    Vancouver, BC

    What if drop pod assault was instead a stratagem and you paid a cost based on how many pods were coming down in a given turn? This could let them have a fairly powerful single turn impact in the right circumstances while costing a resource that makes using your pods as orbital artillery an actual choice and not just the default.

    This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/05/01 21:45:54


     
       
    Made in gb
    Dakka Veteran




     JNAProductions wrote:
    Normally I feel Fezzik overreacts, but in this case, I agree with him.

    This is pretty much a straight buff to Drop Pods, and while they might not see a ton of competitive use right now, that's more a sign that the SM Dex has so much other BETTER stuff, than Pods being bad. It's also not a very fun mechanic-there's no real counterplay.
    Yeah, that's definitely fair. I think I was probably trying to do too much here, squeezing "drop a Drop Pod on your opponent to crush them, like in lore" and "give your opponent advance warning of a Drop Pod in exchange for potentially arriving closer than you'd normally be allowed" into the same mechanic as "deploy Drop Pods even when there's no space to do so".

    The former should probably be a Stratagem; it could be a cheaper, weaker Orbital Bombardment that requires a Drop Pod to deploy. Or even rework Hammer of Wrath somehow to work with Death From Above deployments in general. The advance warning thing is... honestly, something that I think would be quite fun, but would probably need to be a more widely used and tested mechanic, and would probably work out as a Stratagem anyway.

    The third part could be handled with just: Set up this model, and any units that disembark from it, anywhere on the battlefield that is more than 3" away from any enemy models. Any unit that is set up within 9" of any enemy models in this way cannot charge this turn.
       
    Made in us
    Monster-Slaying Daemonhunter




    What if we just went back to when EVERYONE played by the same rules, and there was no Alpha Strikes?

    Also, just because something is in the fluff doesn't mean you'll see it in the table. In the Fluff a single Marine takes out an entire squad of Cabalite warriors, with his knife. That's not happening in 9th. Also, Custodes would be unstoppable.


    Automatically Appended Next Post:
     JNAProductions wrote:
    Normally I feel Fezzik overreacts, but in this case, I agree with him.

    This is pretty much a straight buff to Drop Pods, and while they might not see a ton of competitive use right now, that's more a sign that the SM Dex has so much other BETTER stuff, than Pods being bad. It's also not a very fun mechanic-there's no real counterplay.


    For what it's worth, I am trying to be less, that way. Unless it's about something that get's me passionate. But I am trying.

    This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/05/01 23:25:22


     
       
    Made in gb
    Dakka Veteran




    FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
    Also, just because something is in the fluff doesn't mean you'll see it in the table. In the Fluff a single Marine takes out an entire squad of Cabalite warriors, with his knife. That's not happening in 9th. Also, Custodes would be unstoppable.
    Okay, sure, but there's a difference between the power of something and the principle of it.

    In the lore, for example, a Dark Lance is a concentrated beam of directed dark matter particles that cause whatever they hit to react explosively, torn apart by a catastrophic failure of their own atomic structure. In the lore, being hit with a Dark Lance is therefore instant death on a molecular level. In game terms, a Dark Lance can fail to wound, can roll low enough Damage that it fails to kill an Aberrant, can be shrugged off by a Skitarii who saves on a 6+ thanks to having a bionic liver, etc. That's not right! But the Dark Lance is still a big, powerful, slow, one-shot gun that will kill or put a serious dent in almost anything it hits, so the narrative works. It's toned back, sure, but it clearly represents what it says it does. It feels right.

    If the Dark Lance was instead a 40-shot Poisoned Weapon Pistol, it would be more powerful, but it'd also be totally wrong, because it wouldn't reflect in principle what the Dark Lance is.

    This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/05/22 12:51:22


     
       
    Made in au
    Regular Dakkanaut




    FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
    Yeah, no. Please god no MW strikes on first turn. Also, please no 3" alpha strikes. I mean, what are you trying to accomplish?


    This, why should Marines be able to get immediately in melta range for no penalty?
       
    Made in us
    Monster-Slaying Daemonhunter




    Forget Melta, I'd be much more worried about relic Salamander Dreadnaughts with Basically 100% charges and heavy flamers. Say goodbye to the Meta.

    Whatever, I mean the SM boogeyman was a myth, and nothing Drop Pods could do would bring them back in line with where 9th appears to be going. Which is overwhelmingly broken.

    One of two things can happen in 9th:

    1. They reign in the op Dex creep, in which case all future dexes are viewed as massively inferior

    Or

    2. They can continue the trend until we have Guard squads with WS/BS 2+ with 5 attacks with a S4 bayonette and assault 3 S4 2 damage Hotshot lasguns.
       
    Made in ca
    Drop Trooper with Demo Charge



    Canada

    FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:


    2. They can continue the trend until we have Guard squads with WS/BS 2+ with 5 attacks with a S4 bayonette and assault 3 S4 2 damage Hotshot lasguns.


    About time the God Emperor's glorious bayonets got rules reflecting their holy purpose.

    Imperial Guard - 1500 GSC - 250  
       
    Made in gb
    Dakka Veteran




    FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
    Forget Melta, I'd be much more worried about relic Salamander Dreadnaughts with Basically 100% charges and heavy flamers. Say goodbye to the Meta.
    How is that much different than it is now? You can already take a Salamander Relic Contemptor with 2x Heavy Flamers in a Dreadnought Drop Pod for the same cost and slot, and deploy it within 9" for Heavy Flamer + Charge. Tactical and Assault Drops don't change anything about that.

    The only difference is the Inertial Guidance System ability, which does allow you to charge out of a close drop, but also delays the drop by a round (so round 3 at the earliest) and gives your opponent a full turn to respond to the deployment, most likely by hauling ass away from there. I could see that needing a Stratagem, rather than being a basic ability, but...

    Alternatively, I could strip out the Devastator/Tactical/Assault distinction and force the marker to be initially placed 3" away from any enemy units, but at that point anyone with M6 can just Normal Move back to normal deep strike range, so there doesn't seem much point. Maybe 1", so at least you can't slap it down in the middle of a large unit to limit the effective distance they can run?

    Jarms48 wrote:
    This, why should Marines be able to get immediately in melta range for no penalty?
    Meltaguns are 12"? So... you can already do that with Drop Pods? Or any other kind of Deep Strike. Ignoring Eradicators for a moment.

    This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/05/22 13:11:43


     
       
     
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