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Made in ca
Stalwart Skittari





Hi all,

Not sure if this is the right place to post this, but I was recently given some Blood Angels and I'm trying to decide whether it's enough to start a force without too much more investment or if I should sell them to fund my other armies.

My main question is, based on what I have can I make a coherent and reasonably competitive (but not tourney competitive neccessarily) army without buying too much more? I ask mostly because marines have so many options that when I try to build a list I just get overwhelmed and most of the lists I see are primaris. On a side note I'd prefer not to mix in primaris and keep this all firstborn.

Here's what I have:

HQ:
-The Sanguinor
-Smash Captain
-Sanguinary Priest
-Chaplain
-Librarian

Elites:
-5 Termis with thunder hammer/stormshield
-5 Termies with lightning claws
-10 death company (with an assortment of weapons including hammers and fists)
-6 or 7 Sanguinary guard
-2 venerable dreadnoughts (one with lacannon, fist and one with assault cannon, fist)

Troops:
-About 15-20 tactical marines

Fast:
-About 10-15 assault marines
-2 attack bikes
-10 bikers

Heavy:
-Enough heavy weapons to make a couple dev squads
   
Made in us
Irked Blood Angel Scout with Combat Knife




You have a solid core of units there to work with. You have all the HQs you need.

Without primaris, I think you will find it harder to establish board control. Tactical marines outside of transports are slow and don't have access to strats like smokescreen or transhuman physiology which hurts their survivability getting to and sitting on a point.

You also don't have appear to have a whirlwind which outside of a Judiciar is the only way to get access to a fight last ability which is a pretty critical tool these days.

Fire support through Devs, Ven Dread and attack bikes with Multi-melta can fill the anti-tank role adequately.

TH/SS Terminators paired with a Sang Priest are good center objective holders or monster killers.

Assault marines are meh. Playing them as Van Vets for the extra attack elevates them but you probably don't have the bits for claws and shields to power them up.

Probably another box of 5 San Guard wouldn't hurt.

Running a jump pack character with rites of war and a big block of bikes can probably cause some headaches grabbing and hold objectives early.

Honestly, without primaris, you will have an uphill battle against any army with a 9th edition codex but if you are just looking to have another army to mix it up, you've got enough there to have a fun time.
   
Made in ca
Stalwart Skittari





Thank you for the advice!

Based on that would this be a decent 1500pt list to start with? *Also in the below list I have 35pts leftover to fiddle with equipment. Should I give the tac marines any weapons or use the points elsewhere? The other idea I had was to rework my list a bit to make room for 20 tac marines with some special weapons and two rhinos

Battalion

HQ:
-Chaplain w/ Jump pack
-Sanguinary Priest with Jump pack

Elites
-10 death company w/ jump packs, 2 thunder hammers
-5 assault termis with shield and hammer
-5 sanguinary guard (not sure what best loadout is here)

Troops
-5 tac marines
-5 tac marines
-5 tac marines

Heavy Support
-5 devestators w/4 multimeltas and a cherub

Dedicated Transport:
-Razorback with twin assault cannon (I already had one of these in my collection)
   
Made in nz
Devastating Dark Reaper




Hey man.

Played BA for quite some time competitively.

A couple of secret sauce things you could do.

Remove the Devastators and put the Multi Melta into each of the Tac Squads.

I would suggest keeping DC to a small squad. 5 with TH I find is very good. With a Sang Priest, Chapter Master and a Libby you have a 5 man unit with 25 Thunder Hammer attacks, Full Rerolls and exploding 6s. You can kill most things with that.

Sang Guard, Axes or Swords

Use those two attacks bikes with Multimeltas, If you can get a 3rd.

And as people have said. Termies (Although I prefer Vanguard Vets) are good durable troops.

Good luck
   
Made in us
Irked Blood Angel Scout with Combat Knife




HQ's are both strong picks. Upgrading the Sang Priest to Chief Apoth with selfless healer I assume?

Assault termies will be good for Oath of Moment, looks good.

I'd consider splitting the DC squad up into 2 x 5 with the hammers together in one. Forlorn Fury (12" pregame move) and Refusal to Die (5+++) both cost 2 CP to use once you cross that 5 model threshold. Since you only have 2 hammers, you will also find your 10 man squad in the awkward position of way overkilling chaff units like 10 guardsmen and way under killing mean units like Blightlord Teriminators. Neither of those are efficient outcomes for such a pricey unit. With 2x5, you can send 5 chainsword guys to deal with vulnerable obsec troops and use your hammer squad to deal some damage to some heavy hitters. A third hammer is probably worth it to really push through the damage.

Another advantage to having more individual units is that it gives you more options for scoring secondaries like relentless assault/linebreaker/engage on all fronts.

Sang Guard loadoat really comes down to sword vs axes. With BA +1 to wound on the charge, powerfists tend not to be worth eating the -1 to hit. Axes if you know you will face a lot of T5 like DG, Gravis, Necrons. Swords if you expect to play pretty much anything else because of the extra AP. I don't really ever value having inferno pistols or plasma over the Angelus boltguns.

When I play tac marines the usually look like one of the below:

4x tactical w/ bolter, 1x sargeant w/ chainsword and bolter

3x tactical w/ bolter, 1x heavy w/ grav cannon, 1x sarge w/ stormbolter and chainsword

3x tactical w/ bolter, 1x heavy w/ multimedia, 1x sarge w/ chainsword and bolter

If I take multiple,, I don't give them all a heavy or special because they really are most valuable as disposable trading pieces for midboard objectives or as back objective campers.

Personally, I'd trade the razorback for a whirlwind for access to suppressing fire (turn off overwatch, give fight last). You can probably proxy it initially to try it out and see if it worth buying the bits from Kromlech to make one or something.

You might also consider a Patrol + Vanguard Detachment over a battalion to give you some flexibility to shift some points out of troops and into other areas. Swapping out a tactical squad for 2 MM attack bikes for example.


++ Patrol Detachment -2CP (Imperium - Adeptus Astartes - Blood Angels) [35 PL, -2CP, 705pts] ++

+ HQ +

Chaplain [6 PL, 105pts]: 6. Canticle of Hate (Aura), Boltgun, Jump Pack, Litany of Hate

+ Troops +

Tactical Squad [5 PL, 100pts]
. 3x Space Marine: 3x Bolt pistol, 3x Boltgun, 3x Frag & Krak grenades
. Space Marine Sergeant: Astartes Chainsword, Boltgun
. Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Grav-cannon

Tactical Squad [5 PL, 90pts]
. 4x Space Marine: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Boltgun, 4x Frag & Krak grenades
. Space Marine Sergeant: Astartes Chainsword, Boltgun

+ Fast Attack +

Attack Bike Squad [2 PL, 55pts]
. Attack Bike: Multi-melta

Attack Bike Squad [2 PL, 55pts]
. Attack Bike: Multi-melta

+ Heavy Support +

Devastator Squad [8 PL, 175pts]: Armorium Cherub
. Devastator Marine Sergeant: Astartes Chainsword, Boltgun
. Devastator Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Multi-melta
. Devastator Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Multi-melta
. Devastator Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Multi-melta
. Devastator Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Multi-melta

Whirlwind [7 PL, 125pts]: Whirlwind castellan launcher

++ Vanguard Detachment -3CP (Imperium - Adeptus Astartes - Blood Angels) [49 PL, 9CP, 795pts] ++

+ HQ +

Sanguinary Priest [7 PL, 135pts]: Astartes Chainsword, Bolt pistol, Chapter Command: Chief Apothecary, Icon of The Angel, Jump Pack, Warlord

+ Elites +

Death Company Marines [8 PL, 170pts]: Jump Pack
. Death Company Marine: Thunder hammer
. Death Company Marine: Thunder hammer
. Death Company Marine: Thunder hammer
. Death Company Marine
. . Bolt pistol and chainsword
. Death Company Marine
. . Bolt pistol and chainsword

Death Company Marines [8 PL, 125pts]: Jump Pack
. Death Company Marine
. . Bolt pistol and chainsword
. Death Company Marine
. . Bolt pistol and chainsword
. Death Company Marine
. . Bolt pistol and chainsword
. Death Company Marine
. . Bolt pistol and chainsword
. Death Company Marine
. . Bolt pistol and chainsword

Sanguinary Guard [17 PL, 150pts]
. Sanguinary Guard: Angelus boltgun, Encarmine sword
. Sanguinary Guard: Angelus boltgun, Encarmine sword
. Sanguinary Guard: Angelus boltgun, Encarmine sword
. Sanguinary Guard: Angelus boltgun, Encarmine sword
. Sanguinary Guard: Angelus boltgun, Encarmine sword

Terminator Assault Squad [9 PL, 215pts]
. Assault Terminator Sergeant
. . Thunder Hammer & Storm Shield: Thunder hammer
. 4x Assault Terminator w/THSS: 4x Storm shield, 4x Thunder hammer

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/05/08 23:03:18


 
   
Made in ca
Stalwart Skittari





Thank you all for the detailed advice! Super helpful as someone overwhelmed by all the different marine options.

I like that list! I think I'll probably aim at painting that up while I remain in lockdown, and for 2k I'll look into adding the sanguinor and more sanguinary guard. One question I had about the list though, is when running the devs with no transport is it best to outflank them generally? Would it be worth the points to include a drop pod?

I do also like the idea of the multimelta tac squads, maybe even some in rhinos, and the multimelta attack bikes. Also am I missing something or is there a strategem or ability that makes running the attack bikes in units of 3 best, should I aim to do that when I expand to 2k?

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/05/09 07:38:22


 
   
Made in us
Irked Blood Angel Scout with Combat Knife




I'd probably put them in Strategic Reserves to start fairly regularly but it's a decision you can make at the table. I've tried them in a drop pod a couple times in 9th but a few drawbacks I've found with them. 1) On smaller 9th boards, in combination with terrain it's easier to screen the drop pods out from threatening areas. 2) They make attractive charge targets for your opponent for extra movement or for hiding from shooting while in combat. 3) Your heavy weapon infantry still suffer the -1 penalty for moving (this also applies coming from reserves and is a drawback of devastators and heavy weapon tacs generally).

Multi-melta devs might be one of the few examples in a BA army to use the 2CP steady advance strat to shoot without movement penalty if you really need them to delete something when they come in but it's a steep price to pay if you are starting the game with 7-8 CP after extra warlord traits, relics, Detachment selection, etc.

Attack bikes in squads of 3 are a menace when run with a Sanguinary Priest nearby to heal and res them. 4 T5 wounds apiece make them hard to wipe the full squad which allows you to bring one back and heal another back to full wounds. It's not as reliable a tactic when you just have 2. In the above list, I put them in separate squads because I had the slots, it gives extra flexibility to move them independently, they won't overflow allocated attacks/mortals wounds to one another, and gives more units for scoring secondaries with.

Another reason 3 makes sense is that each MM bike only has 67% chance of passing a wound through against T8 opponents (2 shots hitting on 3s, wounding on 4s). You multiply that by three bikes and you are pushing through 2 D6/2+D6 shots on average which starts to make them reliable damage dealers to the toughest units in the game.

Attack bikes are just great fire support units for BA, highly recommend them.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/05/09 13:50:04


 
   
Made in ca
Stalwart Skittari





That makes sense, I guess with 24 inch range they should be pretty hard to screen out with most opponents. And nice, I'll definitely include 3 bikes when I expand to 2K points, thank you for your help!
   
 
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