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Made in ca
Drafted Man-at-Arms




Ultima Seg.

How powerful were Humans before dark age of technology? and how would they fair today in 40k. From what I understand the technology they had back then, could never be replicated now, because of how religious they became.

Also would they be the dominant force in the galaxy, and how did they compare to the Eldar in their peak and Krorks in theirs.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





It’s hard to say, they invented the STCs in the golden age of humanity which meant they could make almost anything they needed and they perfected AI and the men of Iron did most things for them, which is a bit similar to pre fall eldar. I imagine a sense of laziness and complacency led to the men of iron revolt.

Humanity then lost much of its tech when the men of iron revolted and destroyed the STC machines and the knowledge of how to create the technology. This is because the STCs were taken all over the universe by colonists who didn’t understand the technology but knew how to use it.

Then the birth of slaneesh created warp storms that’s cut off human colonies from each other meaning many regressed to barbaric levels of existence. Some did much better.

It used to be that a combination of lack of scientific insight, religious dogma and a fear of repeating the mistakes of the past (men of iron) meant that after the emperor went into the golden throne on my knowledge acquired by humanity up to that point was accepted and used, and there was no discovery or attempt at scientific advancement. New technologies were heretical and STCs worshipped as holy relics and the discovery of new STCs were significant religious events.

I think GW painted themselves into a corner with that in terms of new models and allowing authors to tell different stories so since 2nd Ed GW have slowly moved away from that all the way up to reinvention of space marines
   
Made in au
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Sylhfer wrote:
How powerful were Humans before dark age of technology? and how would they fair today in 40k. From what I understand the technology they had back then, could never be replicated now, because of how religious they became.

Also would they be the dominant force in the galaxy, and how did they compare to the Eldar in their peak and Krorks in theirs.


DAoT humans were star trek level advanced, with crazy time tech, anti grav etc. The length of the DAoT wasn't very long though, so they didn't hold onto that tech for long.

The eldar effectively controlled the galaxy before humanity reached DAoT levels. They had planets and colonies stretching to the western and southern borders of the galaxy (from their homeworld in what is now the eye of terror). The outer most worlds were maiden worlds terra formed to be paradises. Many of them became exodite planets, as they escaped the Fall and retreated as far from their empire as possible. hence why the exodite maps put their worlds in a semi circle around the outside of the south western galaxy.

Eldar technology has never been comparable to human technology. It was all built around psychic control and feedback. The centre of eldar tech was their psychic engines, effectively warp syphons, that drew warp energy safely into reality and powered all their tech. They had perpetual energy.

As their tech was so manifestly different to human tech it's hard to make direct comparisons. While humanity had black hole guns and time matrixes, the eldar had thought machines that could turn themselves into whatever an eldar desired or needed. The realm of commorragh has several stars captured powering it (as they shy away from psychic energy entirely). They could reshape worlds, extinguish stars and/or move them at will.

They were already a very well established empire the galaxy when humanity started spreading out.

Given that there are 100-400 billion stars in the galaxy and according to modern estimates most will have planets, it's possible for each star system to be inhabited and controlled. Even if the eldar empire spread out and controlled a quarter of the galaxy, that's between 25 and 100 billion systems. Leaving 75-300 billion left for everyone else.

It is highly unlikely the eldar controlled that many though, making their spread across the galaxy even more thin. So it's entirely possible humanity never encountered the eldar, having never moved into systems they controlled during this time. Even if they did run into them, there's so many systems out there that they would not need to fight over who owns them.

In the event the humans did try to take a system from the existing eldar, they would be up against:

Perpetual energy machines in their psychic engines
Perpetual materiel in the form of wraithbone and psycho plastics (wraithbone is solidified warp energy)
Automaton legions, which, when powered and produced by the above 2, become an endless swarm

It would be easier for them to form a non aggression pact with the eldar and move on to another system to colonise. The eldar had also perfected terra forming so may even take on planets that humanity didn't want anyway.



The Krork don't seem to have survived to the DAoT. We don't really have an explanation for what happened, unless you take the loss of the brainboyz to mean that they devolved after the war in heaven 60 million years ago.

Their technology was probably comparable to the DAoT if not more advanced. They had been programmed by the old ones with their tech levels while facing necrons, so they'd need something effective to combat them.

The eldar seemed to have been left as the sole advanced race at the end of the WIH, although whether they dominated the galaxy for 60 million years or not is unknown (I'd prefer not as it makes the possible stories far more interesting). Either way, by the time humanity left Earth, the eldar had dominated the galaxy for an unknown amount of time.




   
Made in gb
Member of a Lodge? I Can't Say






40k humanity has notable regressed both culturally and scientifically since just before the Dark Age. The biggest problem is that whenever pre-fall humanity is compared to the Aeldari, its always a case of:
"Foolish Mon'keigh, your race will never come close to our glorious Empire."
And then everyone just sighs because all Aeldari are colossal egotists that have always considered every single race that wasn't the Old Ones lesser than them.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Gert wrote:
40k humanity has notable regressed both culturally and scientifically since just before the Dark Age. The biggest problem is that whenever pre-fall humanity is compared to the Aeldari, its always a case of:
"Foolish Mon'keigh, your race will never come close to our glorious Empire."
And then everyone just sighs because all Aeldari are colossal egotists that have always considered every single race that wasn't the Old Ones lesser than them.


I have a feeling there was a point when humans, eldar and ork (Krorks) were of an equal level of high sophistication and Hubris. It’s hard to know with Orks cos we don’t have an exampl in documented time line of what Orks were like when the krorks were about but we do know the more there are of them more sophisticated and intelligent they become.

Maybe they were 3 great empires of species left by the old ones
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut






Leutin in his video in STCs touches on the subject including a cool extract on the DAOT ship Spirit of Infinity

https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Spirit_of_Eternity

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3hce0dsSV1E
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





 RegularGuy wrote:
Leutin in his video in STCs touches on the subject including a cool extract on the DAOT ship Spirit of Infinity

https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Spirit_of_Eternity

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3hce0dsSV1E


This is a cool story I did not know about. Is this where Cawl got some of the new tech for Primaris?
   
Made in gb
Member of a Lodge? I Can't Say






The Orks peaked during the War of the Beast where the Imperium started to see what Ork culture would look like under a unified leadership. The Aeldari were at their most powerful just before they started inserting pleasure cults at almost every single level of society, that was the beginning of the end for them. The other left behind species is believed to be the Jokaero, the tech monkeys, who seem to be content just drifting about tinkering with machines.
   
Made in au
Anti-Armour Swiss Guard






Newcastle, OZ

 Gert wrote:

And then everyone just sighs because all Aeldari are colossal egotists that have always considered every single race that wasn't the Old Ones lesser than them.


It's not arrogance when you are right.

I'm OVER 50 (and so far over everyone's BS, too).
Old enough to know better, young enough to not give a ****.

That is not dead which can eternal lie ...

... and yet, with strange aeons, even death may die.
 
   
 
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