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Made in us
Monster-Slaying Daemonhunter




So the 9th edition Melta update really shifted the focus away from a lot of other, frankly, larger problems, and onto a problem that never really existed. Comparitively cheap units with extremely powerful weapons that can be Deep striked into shooting range of your opponent. Granted this isn't the boogeyman it was supposed to be, but it still created an unforseen consequence. Vehicles became almost worthless, given their cost and the ease with which they can be destroyed now for a fraction of the cost.

Scion Command squads with Meltas can do horrific things now, as can regular command squads dropped out of Valks.
Eradicators are what they are, and don't need to be re-hashed. double shooting murder squads with gravis armor.
Dreadnaughts with Multi-melta can be DS within range of anything now. Even closer if you go oldschool with drop pods.
I don't know what Admech has in store for it, but the rumors are bad.

So here if my suggestion: Drop Melta range across the board to 8", or 4" if you want the special rule. This would also apply to vehicle melta. Granted this is only Imperium/Chaos marines only, I don't know how or if this has really affected Xenos weapons yet, or their Melta-like weapons.
   
Made in us
Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba






I'm not convinced a scion command squad armed with melta guns is actually a problem.

It's a 100-point squad, that deep strikes and does 6 wounds to a standard vehicle profile. Against most vehicles thats gonna be like a 50-60% points return, which for a suicide unit is nothing special.

generally speaking, I don't think there are actually *that* many melta units that are any kind of an issue, compared to the handful that seem to be (Retributors, attack bikes really being the only ones that come to mind atm)

"I can't believe all these tryhard WAACs out there just care about winning all the time when it's supposed to be a game for fun!!!!!!! Also here's my 27 page essay on why marines are OP and Orkz should get a bunch of OP rules so I can win more games

-the_scotsman"

-ERJAK 
   
Made in us
Never Forget Isstvan!






Melta's do need a range drop, but not to 8".

16-12" for the non heavyies (so they cant get a bonus from deep strike).

Multi-melta's can drop to 20" (as not many can deep strike to begin with).

Just like the Demolisher cannon, these are weapons that dont need to be having a threat range over 30". They are too powerful to also be a threat all the way across the board.

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Made in us
Monster-Slaying Daemonhunter




I feel like giving Melta back that feeling of "This will be extremely powerful, if I can pull it off"

Sorta like when you used to be able to give the Deathwatch Assault Marines dual Melta Pistols (I forget the name)

It's powerful if it works, otherwise they are just a extremely expensive paperweight with no real options.

If you make Melta's usable inside of DS, they become the opposite of that. All I have to do is drop these down and they will slaughter everything they can see in 24 inches. I say make them 7 for special, 14 for regular.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/05/27 11:32:39


 
   
Made in us
Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba






FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
I feel like giving Melta back that feeling of "This will be extremely powerful, if I can pull it off"

Sorta like when you used to be able to give the Deathwatch Assault Marines dual Melta Pistols (I forget the name)

It's powerful if it works, otherwise they are just a extremely expensive paperweight with no real options.

If you make Melta's usable inside of DS, they become the opposite of that. All I have to do is drop these down and they will slaughter everything they can see in 24 inches. I say make them 7 for special, 14 for regular.


Except that, again, you have not proven this at all. Regular melta on the drop deals a hair more damage to tanks than overcharged plasma, and less damage vs MEQs.

I'm not saying MMs arent currently excessive. They deal over twice the damage of any other competing option when considered against the other infantry-borne heavy weapons. They work on vehicles like Dreadnoughts because you're comparing 1 MM to 2 lascannons, but on units like Devastators 1 MM vs 1 Lascannon is silly.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/05/27 12:42:05


"I can't believe all these tryhard WAACs out there just care about winning all the time when it's supposed to be a game for fun!!!!!!! Also here's my 27 page essay on why marines are OP and Orkz should get a bunch of OP rules so I can win more games

-the_scotsman"

-ERJAK 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




I feel that the melta range should vary depending on the faction, like eldar fusion weapons should have a bigger range than the ones used by the astra-militarum
   
Made in au
Growlin' Guntrukk Driver with Killacannon





Well technically that is the case. The tau ones had an extra 6 inches as is their factions tendency.
   
Made in us
Daemonic Dreadnought




The dark hollows of Kentucky

Are you proposing decreasing the range of multi-meltas and melta guns? The things that are already range 12, and need to be within 6 for the MELTA rule to kick in, and therefore never getting it out of deep strike? You also mentioned this primarily affecting Imperials and CSM, can you actually list all of the units that CSM have that can have multi-meltas?
   
Made in us
Confessor Of Sins




Tacoma, WA, USA

I've heard lots of complaints about Multi-meltas and Melta Rifles, but I can't remember anyone complaining about Meltaguns.

I also find it funny that after GW extended the range of flamers form 8" to 12" that you think it reasonable to do the reverse for the unappreciated meltagun.
   
Made in dk
Pyro Pilot of a Triach Stalker






FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Scion Command squads with Meltas can do horrific things now, as can regular command squads dropped out of Valks.

Why would you drop Scion Command Squads with meltas out of Valks? They have to stay more than 9" away, same as regular DS. While the melta rule used to be worse, the fact that Scion Command Squads are no longer going to be in melta range makes them worse, not better than before assuming you put them in a Valkyrie.
   
Made in it
Gargantuan Gargant




Italy

I'd like a significant hike in melta weapons' points costs, rather than a nerf. Those weapons are supposed to be extremely powerful, they're not supposed to be spammed though. Current range doesn't seem unreasonable.

I'd also love to remove deep strike and double tap from the game's mechanics (in general, it's not directly related to melta weapons), but it won't happen.


 
   
Made in us
Monster-Slaying Daemonhunter




 vict0988 wrote:
FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Scion Command squads with Meltas can do horrific things now, as can regular command squads dropped out of Valks.

Why would you drop Scion Command Squads with meltas out of Valks? They have to stay more than 9" away, same as regular DS. While the melta rule used to be worse, the fact that Scion Command Squads are no longer going to be in melta range makes them worse, not better than before assuming you put them in a Valkyrie.


I'm behind, I must have missed where Valks can airdrop it's models literally anywhere within 3". That's how it was in 8th, where did that change? Oh, I see they made it a Scion Stratagem. I see now. It's 1CP to drop outside 5" of enemy units. I never saw their updates.

Thats still within the Melta special range, if they get the +3 damage buff. That's still pretty ugly. 6-12 wounds on any vehicle without an invuln, for what is essentially 100 points, if you give them a Prime with them, they are re-rolling 1s, and get +1 on the wound rolls.
   
Made in dk
Pyro Pilot of a Triach Stalker






FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Oh, I see they made it a Scion Stratagem.

I didn't know/forgot they made a Strat so you can still do it. I just remember an opponent I played a few times being none too happy about the change because he ran a Catachan Valkyrie army that relied on easy drop charges. You are totally right that it's still a lot of damage. I guess it's a good question about how big the value of getting into melta range should be, should it be a 57% increase or 30% increase?

Multi-meltas kick a little too much butt compared to meltaguns IMO, 5 meltaguns Sternguard is 125 (Company Veterans would be 150) vs 5 Devs with 4 MM is 175 pts. 3,33 hits at D6 damage vs 5,67 hits at D6+2 damage or 11,66 vs 31,19 or 168% more damage for 40% more points, counting the Drop Pod it's 168% more damage for 26% more points. Oof. To get somewhere close to parity multi-meltas would have to go up by 10 points and all meltaguns would have to go down to 5 points.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Blackie wrote:

I'd also love to remove deep strike and double tap from the game's mechanics (in general, it's not directly related to melta weapons), but it won't happen.


At the risk of jumping way off-topic, why remove deepstrike entirely, and how would you replace it for units whose whole thing is ambushing the enemy? Your proposal is weird enough to have me interested.
   
Made in us
Monster-Slaying Daemonhunter




I think making meltas and bolters so upgunned in 9th really defeated their purpose. They should still be powerful, but Fusion pistol powerful. Anything infantry level is dead within 8". Talking Elites, and most HQs here. Tanks and T7+ units are busted right now. Not rteally sure where to put them, but nerf them and we just go back to plasma spam, keep them as they are and vehicles are still trash/useless. I say nerf their range and bump their costs.
   
Made in cz
Regular Dakkanaut




I'd probably start with reducing the extra devastating melta range to 6" for all types of melta guns, regardless of their max range.

And really, they all should have short-range and long-range profiles just like seismic cannons.
   
 
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