Switch Theme:

Not Eligible to Fight  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
»
Author Message
Advert


Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
  • No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
  • Times and dates in your local timezone.
  • Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
  • Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
  • Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.




Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut



england

Hi Everyone.

I’ve seen a couple of posts about this but they usually get a bit muddled and no real answers.

So here goes.

With all the new Codecs we are getting the rule of a unit being not eligible to fight until all other units have fought.

Obviously this is a rephrasing of the old fight last.

What I’d like to know is, is this effected by charging units or strike first units. And how does it effect them.


 
   
Made in gb
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain





Cardiff

Rulebook or Mission Pack FAQs have this covered. Page 3 of GT FAQ for example.

 Stormonu wrote:
For me, the joy is in putting some good-looking models on the board and playing out a fantasy battle - not arguing over the poorly-made rules of some 3rd party who neither has any power over my play nor will be visiting me (and my opponent) to ensure we are "playing by the rules"
 
   
Made in us
Veteran Knight Baron in a Crusader





Obviously this is a rephrasing of the old fight last.

Debatable, as the Codex: Space Marines codex has examples of both the "old" wording and the "new" wording (suppressive fire stratagem vs judiciar tempomortis ability)
Rare Rules mentioned above gives details on how "cannot be selected to fight until after all other units" and "fights first" interact. Note that this almost explicitly does not apply to rules that make units not eligible to fight until after all other units have fought.

For examples:
A unit that charges and then has its eligibility removed until X condition can not fight until it becomes eligible again. A unit that charges that cannot be selected to fight until after all other units have fought fights "normally". That is, after units that have charged or otherwise have the ability to "fight first".
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut



england

Rihgu wrote:
Obviously this is a rephrasing of the old fight last.

Debatable, as the Codex: Space Marines codex has examples of both the "old" wording and the "new" wording (suppressive fire stratagem vs judiciar tempomortis ability)
Rare Rules mentioned above gives details on how "cannot be selected to fight until after all other units" and "fights first" interact. Note that this almost explicitly does not apply to rules that make units not eligible to fight until after all other units have fought.

For examples:
A unit that charges and then has its eligibility removed until X condition can not fight until it becomes eligible again. A unit that charges that cannot be selected to fight until after all other units have fought fights "normally". That is, after units that have charged or otherwise have the ability to "fight first".




Yes, this is exactly my question.

When do they become Eligible.

From what I understand from the new wording of these abilities is that regardless of whether they’ve charged or have a Fight First ability, that being ineligible to fight overrides them.

Whereas the older fight last wordings means they can nullify each other.

 
   
Made in us
Veteran Knight Baron in a Crusader





An eligible unit is one that is within Engagement Range of an enemy unit and/or made a charge move in the same turn.

This is normal units for eligibility.

Units that made a charge move this turn fight first in the Fight phase. This means that units that did not make a charge move this turn cannot be selected to fight until after all units that did make a charge move have fought.

This is the rule that indicates that chargers fight first, which is equivalent to non-chargers cannot be selected to fight until all chargers have fought.

An ability which removes eligibility until X condition means that a unit is no longer eligible to fight until X condition is met. In most cases, this is after all other eligible units have fought. At that point, the unit that lost eligibility regains it.

If a unit is not eligible, it cannot be selected to fight. So a unit that charges, and then has its eligibility removed, does not fight first despite the rule that says a unit that charges fights first. It in fact, fights last.

A unit that charges, and then is made "not able to be selected to fight until after all other units have fought" or some similar wording, fights during normal sequencing as the Rare Rules section tells us these two rules effectively cancel each other out and we fight as if we have neither rule.

Does that clear things up for you?
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut



england

Rhigu.

Thank you for clearing that up.

As most new codecs say Eligible I believe from your explanation that chargers and strike first units would lose their rules.

Although as been pointed out there is still the occasional rule (suppression fire) that has been written differently.

 
   
Made in us
Painlord Titan Princeps of Slaanesh




Someone who has the fight first ability would fight as normal (ignoring both their fight first rule and the opponent's fight last/later rule). The rare rules section says that if both are in play then neither is in play.
   
Made in us
Stoic Grail Knight




Leo_the_Rat wrote:
Someone who has the fight first ability would fight as normal (ignoring both their fight first rule and the opponent's fight last/later rule). The rare rules section says that if both are in play then neither is in play.


This is disputed as the rare rules section doesn't use the same language as the make a unit ineligible rules.
   
Made in us
Painlord Titan Princeps of Slaanesh




Even if you don't ignore them both then the effect of the ineligible rule would be minimal at best. At least based upon what was said above, if a unit that charges is still able to fight the same as other charging units (albeit the last of them) then, if you have fight first then that unit still fights before other units that don't have that rule and/or haven't charged. The only difference I can see it making is that you can use counter offensive before the, usual, fight first units but I don't see it coming into play at all if the fight first unit is the only unit involved in combat with you (as it will still fight first and you don't have the option of using counter offensive until after it activates).
   
Made in us
Veteran Knight Baron in a Crusader





So they just released an FAQ today that says Not Eligible to Fight IS A fight's last effect, so disregard my posts on the subject.
   
 
Forum Index » 40K You Make Da Call
Go to: