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Made in dk
Pyro Pilot of a Triach Stalker






DIMENSIONAL CORRIDOR 1CP
Necrons – Battle Tactic Stratagem

Use this Stratagem at the start of your Movement phase. Select one <DYNASTY> unit from your army that is on the battlefield. Remove that unit from the battlefield. In the Reinforcements step of this phase, set that unit back up on the battlefield anywhere within 3" of a friendly <DYNASTY> MONOLITH model.

TECHNO-ORACULAR TARGETING 1CP
Necrons – Battle Tactic Stratagem

Use this Stratagem in your Shooting phase, before making the hit roll for an attack made by a NECRONS model from your army. Do not make a hit roll or wound roll for that attack: it automatically hits and wounds the target. If the Damage characteristic of the attack is D3 or D6 the Damage characteristic of the wound is changed to 3 or 6 respectively.

EXTERMINATION PROTOCOLS 1CP
Necrons – Battle Tactic Stratagem

Use this Stratagem in your Shooting phase, when a LOKHUST DESTROYERS or LOKHUST HEAVY DESTROYERS unit from your army is selected to shoot. Until the end of the phase, each time a model in that unit makes an attack, you can re-roll the hit roll and the wound roll.

FRACTAL TARGETING 1CP
Necrons – Battle Tactic Stratagem

Use this Stratagem in your Shooting phase. Select one TOMB BLADES unit from your army. Until the end of the phase models in that unit can shoot even if they Advanced. In addition, do not roll to hit for attacks made by that unit, all hit rolls counts as being sixes.

JUDGEMENT OF THE TRIARCH 1CP
Necrons – Battle Tactic Stratagem

Use this Stratagem in your Shooting phase, when a TRIARCH unit is selected to shoot, or in the Fight phase, when a TRIARCH unit is selected to fight. The first time a model in that unit hits an enemy unit this phase inflict 3 mortal wounds to the target.

ETERNAL PROTECTORS 1CP
Necrons – Battle Tactic Stratagem

Use this Stratagem in the Fight phase. Select a <DYNASTY> LYCHGUARD unit from your army. Until the end of the phase, while that unit is within 3" of a friendly <DYNASTY> NOBLE model, add 3 to the Attacks characteristic of each model in that unit.

RESURRECTION PROTOCOLS
1CP

Use this Stratagem in any phase, when a NECRONS INFANTRY NOBLE or NECRONS INFANTRY CRYPTEK model from your army is destroyed. Set that model back up on the battlefield as close as possible to where they were destroyed and more than 1" away from any enemy models, with 3 wounds remaining at the end of the phase. This Stratagem cannot be used to set the same model back up more than once per battle.

STRANGE ECHOES 1CP
Necrons – Epic Deed Stratagem

Use this Stratagem in your Command phase. Select one C'TAN SHARD model from your army it knows one of Powers of the C'tan that the model did not know.

THE DEATHLESS ARISE 1CP
Necrons – Epic Deed Stratagem

Use this Stratagem in your Command phase. Select one TECHNOMANCER model from your army. Until the end of the phase, that model can use its Rites of Reanimation any number of times on different units.

DIMENSIONAL DESTABILISATION 1CP
Necrons – Epic Deed Stratagem

Use this Stratagem at the end of your Movement phase, when a C'TAN SHARD model from your army has used a Power of the C'tan. Roll one D6; that model can immediately use the corresponding power from the Powers of the C'tan, even if it has already been used this turn. If that model does not have the TITANIC keyword, roll 2D6 and pick one.

ENTROPIC STRIKE 2CP
Necrons – Epic Deed Stratagem

Use this Stratagem in the Fight phase, when a C'TAN SHARD model from your army is selected to fight. Until the end of the phase, each time a melee attack is made by that model, invulnerable saving throws cannot be taken against that attack and no rules that ignore the wounds the model loses can be used.

HAND OF THE PHAERON 0CP
Necrons – Requisition Stratagem

Use this Stratagem before the battle, when you are mustering your army. If your army does not contain a model with the PHAERON keyword, select one NECRONS OVERLORD model from your army (excluding named characters). That model gains the PHAERON keyword, and in your Command phase it can use its My Will Be Done ability one additional time. In addition, you receive 2 additional Command Points. You can only use this Stratagem once.

RAREFIED NOBILITY 1CP
Necrons – Requisition Stratagem

Use this Stratagem before the battle, when you are mustering your army, if your WARLORD has the NECRONS keyword. Select up to one NOBLE model and up to one non-C'TAN CHARACTER in your army and determine one Warlord Trait for each model (this must be a Warlord Trait they can have); that model is only regarded as your WARLORD for the purposes of that Warlord Trait. Each Warlord Trait in your army must be unique (if randomly generated, re-roll duplicate results), and you cannot use this Stratagem to give a model two Warlord Traits. You can only use this Stratagem once, unless you are playing a Strike Force battle (in which case you can use this Stratagem twice), or an Onslaught battle (in which case you can use this Stratagem three times).

ENSLAVED PROTECTORS 1CP
Necrons – Strategic Ploy Stratagem

Use this Stratagem at the end of your opponent’s Charge phase. Choose an CANOPTEK unit from your army that is within 12" of an enemy unit. You can declare a charge with that unit as if it were your Charge phase. If the unit’s charge is successful, that unit fights before all other units in the subsequent Fight phase – even before charging units. If your opponent has any units with similar abilities, take it in turns to resolve them, beginning with your opponent.

REANIMATION PRIORITISATION 2CP
Necrons – Strategic Ploy Stratagem

Use this Stratagem in your opponent's Shooting phase, when a NECRONS unit from your army within 6" of a CANOPTEK REANIMATOR is selected as the target of an attack. All attacks made against the unit are ignored.

BURROWING NIGHTMARES 1CP
Necrons – Strategic Ploy Stratagem

Use this Stratagem at the start of your Movement phase. Select one OPHYDIAN DESTROYERS unit from your army that is on the battlefield. Move it anywhere that is more than 1" away from any enemy models.

SELF-DESTRUCTION 1CP
Necrons – Strategic Ploy Stratagem

Use this Stratagem in the Fight phase, when a CANOPTEK SCARAB SWARMS unit from your army is selected to fight. Select one model in that unit. After that unit has finished making its attacks, you can select one enemy unit within Engagement Range of that model and roll one D6: on a 1, that enemy unit suffers 6 mortal wounds; on a 2-5, that enemy unit suffers 6 mortal wounds; on a 6, that enemy unit suffers 6 mortal wounds. The CANOPTEK SCARAB SWARM model is then destroyed.

RELENTLESS ONSLAUGHT 1CP
Necrons – Strategic Ploy Stratagem

Use this Stratagem in your Shooting phase, when a CORE INFANTRY unit from your army is selected to shoot. Until the end of the phase, each time a model in that unit makes an attack with a weapon, a hit roll scores one additional hit.

ATAVISTIC INSTIGATION 1CP
Necrons – Strategic Ploy Stratagem

Use this Stratagem in your Shooting phase, when a DOOM SCYTHE model from your army is selected to shoot. After you select the target unit for that model's heavy death ray, select one enemy unit within 3" of that target (you can select the target itself if you wish); that enemy unit can either brace or duck for cover.
*If that unit braces it suffers 6 mortal wounds.
*If that unit ducks for cover, then until the end of the turn, the Attacks characteristic of models in that unit is changed to 0, and that unit cannot fire Overwatch.

REVENGE OF THE DOOMSTALKER 2/0CP
Necrons – Strategic Ploy Stratagem

Use this Stratagem in any phase, when a <DYNASTY> CHARACTER unit from your army is destroyed by an enemy unit. Select one friendly <DYNASTY> CANOPTEK DOOMSTALKER model from your army (0CP) or all friendly <DYNASTY> CANOPTEK DOOMSTALKER models (2CP).
*At the end of the phase, each selected model can shoot as if it were your Shooting phase, but it can only target that enemy unit (and only if that enemy unit is an eligible target for that attack).
*Until the end of the battle, each time one of the selected models makes an attack that targets that enemy unit, add 1 to that attack's hit roll.

DISRUPTION FIELDS 1CP
Necrons – Wargear Stratagem

Use this Stratagem in the Fight phase, when a NECRONS CORE unit from your army is selected to fight. Until the end of the phase, add 10 to the Strength characteristic of models in that unit.

DISINTEGRATION CAPACITORS 1CP
Necrons – Wargear Stratagem

Use this Stratagem in your Shooting phase, when a NECRONS unit from your army is selected to shoot. Until the end of the phase, each time a model in that unit makes an attack with a gauss weapon, a hit automatically wounds the target.

MALEVOLENT ARCING 1CP
Necrons – Wargear Stratagem

Use this Stratagem in your Shooting phase, when a NECRONS model from your army targets an enemy unit with a tesla weapon. Before making that weapon's attacks, each unit within 6" of that enemy unit suffers l mortal wound.

RECONSTITUTION PROTOCOLS 1CP
Necrons – Wargear Stratagem

Use this Stratagem in your Command phase. Select one GHOST ARK unit from your army. Until the end of the phase, each time that unit uses its Repair Barge ability, you can set up to 5 destroyed models back up on the battlefield, instead of D3.

Edit: accidentally set the CP cost for Hand of the Phaeron as 2CP instead of 0CP, but that would mean Necrons wouldn't start the battle with 14CP as intended.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/01 17:40:07


 
   
Made in gb
Lord of the Fleet






London

I got as far as Eternal Protectors before giving up, they all seem hideously OP.

   
Made in us
Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord





In My Lab

Dimensional Corridor-looks okay.

Techno Targeting-feels pretty strong, so maybe 2 CP? I dunno, I'm not super familiar with Necron weaponry.

Extermination Protocols-Doesn't this already exist? What changed?

Fractal Targeting-30 Points per Tomb Blade with Tesla. 12 S5 hits per Tomb Blade. That's, in a squad of nine, 108 S5 hits. For one CP and less than 300 points. That does, even at AP0, 12 wounds to a Knight. It kills a max Gravis unit. It kills a max MEQ unit. That's insane.

Judgement Of The Triach-Feels really good for 1 CP, since it's basically guaranteed 3 MW without interrupting any normal damage.

Eternal Protectors-That's not quite as good as Fight Twice, since you only get one Pile In and Consolidate. But it more than doubles the number of attacks, so that's AT LEAST 2 CP.

Resurrection Protocols-Looks fine.

Strange Echoes-Looks fine.

The Deathless Arise-That feels really good for 1 CP.

Dimensional Destabilization-Probably needs to be at least 2 CP.

Entropic Strike-Makes Nightbringer redundant, since you can make any C'Tan the Nightbringer now.

Hand Of The Phaeron-Should just be a unit upgrade, like the Chief Apothecary for Marines or Holy Orders for Ad Mech.

Rarefied Nobility-Why does this give twice as many Warlord Traits as other comparable strats?

Enslaved Protectors-Compare to Stooping Dive, which is 3 CP.

Reanimation Prioritization-That's just crazy.

Burrowing Nightmares-Also crazy. It's a guaranteed charge for a unit that's main problem is fragility.

Self Destruction-Why even have a die roll when it's 6 MW each time? Also, it's pretty bonkers. Scarabs are fast, moderately durable, and can easily make it with at least one model to combat.

Relentless Onslaught-That's bonkers. Especially since it doesn't even have to hit! You just get a number of hits equal to the shots you make, and THEN get to hit normally too!

Atavistic Instigation-Compare to the similar Marine strat. It's way, WAY weaker.

Revenge Of The Doomstalker-Insanely good.

Disruption Fields-That's a typo, right? You don't mean to make Warriors S14, right?

Disintegration Capacitors-Combine with Relentless Onslaught and a brick of 20 Warriors. That's 40 auto-hits, an average of 26-27 more hits, for more than 60 wounds on average. At AP-1 or 2, depending on loadout and if Mephrit. That kills a Knight on average for 2 CP. A Dominous class too! Not even just a Questoris.

Malevolent Arcing-Feels a little too good, but not massively so. I'd make it within 6" of a single enemy model-not the whole unit.

Reconstitution Protocols-Feels a bit too good.

Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne! 
   
Made in us
Loyal Necron Lychguard





I hope this is a joke because if not you are never allowed to criticize GW for their balancing ever again
   
Made in gb
Lord of the Fleet






London

 JNAProductions wrote:
Dimensional Corridor-looks okay.

Judgement Of The Triach-Feels really good for 1 CP, since it's basically guaranteed 3 MW without interrupting any normal damage.


Judging from the phrasing of the OP, it'll be 3MW per model. Get a squad of 5 in combat and you do an automatic 15 mortal wounds for 1CP.

The Deathless Arise-That feels really good for 1 CP.


Far too good for 1CP


Rarefied Nobility-Why does this give twice as many Warlord Traits as other comparable strats?


I agree, makes no sense that you can have 6 warlord traits in a 2k game, or at all.

Enslaved Protectors-Compare to Stooping Dive, which is 3 CP.

Reanimation Prioritization-That's just crazy.


Jesus Christ, I wish I'd stopped reading by now. I give up on the rest, inclined to believe this may be a troll.

   
Made in fr
Longtime Dakkanaut






Techno oracular targeting is a way to address that necron major weapons are broken without actually fixing it.

A doomsday cannon has to make so many rolls to be effect and it only takes one to ruin it.

First you roll number of shots, d6. Ok right there you can be screwed by rolling a 1 0r 2.

Then you have to toll to hit for each shot, again, more chances for a bad roll to feth your whole super weapon into wasted points.

Then roll to wound, ok, usually going to wound but still gives that 1 a chance to drop in and say HAHA!

Then roll damage....

See how many rolls have to not go bas for the DDC to be effective?

Now with techno oracular targeting it means you can get at least one effective shot off with it for a CP, assuming the target doesn't have a fixed save or FNP...

So it's not OP or broken, it just lets our big guns do some damn damage once in a while. Very useful for when you roll a 1 on the number of shots. Why, you might even get to have your monolith get in an effective shot or two before being blown off the board! Praise the silent king!

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/06/01 23:51:25


"But the universe is a big place, and whatever happens, you will not be missed..." 
   
Made in gb
Dakka Veteran




 vict0988 wrote:
DIMENSIONAL CORRIDOR 1CP
Necrons – Battle Tactic Stratagem

Use this Stratagem at the start of your Movement phase. Select one <DYNASTY> unit from your army that is on the battlefield. Remove that unit from the battlefield. In the Reinforcements step of this phase, set that unit back up on the battlefield anywhere within 3" of a friendly <DYNASTY> MONOLITH model.
Two changes, here.
  • First, you've removed the CORE INFANTRY restriction; that allows you to teleport TITANIC units, other MONOLITHs, etc, which seems a little weird, to say the least.
  • Second, you can now teleport in units within any distance of an enemy. There aren't many Stratagems or abilities that allow for a "close range" Deep Strike (or similarly, a move-then-disembark) and don't also come with a "you can't charge this turn" restriction. The only exception I'm aware of is the Imperial Guard Stratagem that allows for a 5" grav chute disembark by Militarum Tempestus, who aren't exactly melee powerhouses. I'd consider whether you want to turn every MONOLITH into a 3" bubble of assaults.
  • On the other hand, the MONOLITH can technically already do that, it just requires more planning ahead to put the unit in Strategic Reserves, and to keep the MONOLITH Stationary, both of which this bypasses. If that's your aim, I'd suggest this instead:

  • "Use this Stratagem in your Command phase if you have a <DYNASTY> MONOLITH on the battlefield. Select one <DYNASTY> CORE INFANTRY unit from your army. Remove that unit from the battlefield. That unit is placed into Strategic Reserves. This Stratagem costs 0 CP if the selected unit is within 3" of a friendly <DYNASTY> MONOLITH; otherwise, it costs 1 CP."

    That keeps the various restrictions of the Eternity Gate in place, while encouraging gate-hopping between Monoliths. I do wish Monoliths were more accessible; I miss when they were our principal vehicle, rather than a Lord of War.

     vict0988 wrote:
    TECHNO-ORACULAR TARGETING 1CP
    Necrons – Battle Tactic Stratagem

    Use this Stratagem in your Shooting phase, before making the hit roll for an attack made by a NECRONS model from your army. Do not make a hit roll or wound roll for that attack: it automatically hits and wounds the target. If the Damage characteristic of the attack is D3 or D6 the Damage characteristic of the wound is changed to 3 or 6 respectively.
    Techno-Oracular Targeting is already basically fine; this version is much too reliable, especially for 1CP. Necrons are relatively light on D6 guns, but it still effectively allows you to delete certain models with almost no uncertainty, for 1 CP. If you want to expand the scope of TOT, consider something like "all Type rolls, hit rolls, wound rolls, and Damage rolls for that attack are considered to have rolled a 4, and cannot be re-rolled". That's at least got some weird "arcane reliability" flavour to it, and can fail against the wrong target.

     vict0988 wrote:
    EXTERMINATION PROTOCOLS 1CP
    Necrons – Battle Tactic Stratagem

    Use this Stratagem in your Shooting phase, when a LOKHUST DESTROYERS or LOKHUST HEAVY DESTROYERS unit from your army is selected to shoot. Until the end of the phase, each time a model in that unit makes an attack, you can re-roll the hit roll and the wound roll.
    Noooo. Extermination Protocols (and Lokhusts) took a hit, but a slight buff or a conditional discount would be welcome; doubling the effect and halving the cost is way out of bounds.

     vict0988 wrote:
    FRACTAL TARGETING 1CP
    Necrons – Battle Tactic Stratagem

    Use this Stratagem in your Shooting phase. Select one TOMB BLADES unit from your army. Until the end of the phase models in that unit can shoot even if they Advanced. In addition, do not roll to hit for attacks made by that unit, all hit rolls counts as being sixes.
    God, no. Why? Tomb Blades are already pretty solid (I don't use them, but that's just because they look horrendously stupid, just like most 5e additions to Necrons), and this just doubles their gauss blaster firepower - or more than triples it for tesla carbines. Unnecessary.

     vict0988 wrote:
    JUDGEMENT OF THE TRIARCH 1CP
    Necrons – Battle Tactic Stratagem

    Use this Stratagem in your Shooting phase, when a TRIARCH unit is selected to shoot, or in the Fight phase, when a TRIARCH unit is selected to fight. The first time a model in that unit hits an enemy unit this phase inflict 3 mortal wounds to the target.
    I'm... genuinely not sure if this is a nerf or buff. I guess it depends on whether you've got a lone surviving Triarch Praetorian or a full squad of 10. What's your thinking, here?

     vict0988 wrote:
    ETERNAL PROTECTORS 1CP
    Necrons – Battle Tactic Stratagem

    Use this Stratagem in the Fight phase. Select a <DYNASTY> LYCHGUARD unit from your army. Until the end of the phase, while that unit is within 3" of a friendly <DYNASTY> NOBLE model, add 3 to the Attacks characteristic of each model in that unit.
    Absolutely not. A conditional +1A for 1CP wasn't mind-blowing, but it was an acceptably neat bonus. +2A would have been pushing the boundaries of polite society. +3A, though, is just right out.

    Leaving off here. As a general rule, I'd suggest adding a bit of commentary so people know why you're suggesting the changes that you are. It gives something more to engage with.
       
    Made in dk
    Pyro Pilot of a Triach Stalker






    The OP was a satirical post, not meant to stir up anger, but I think most posters in the thread failed to catch on, so I apologize for it turning into a troll post, it wasn't meant to be. I think perhaps I suggested too many changes and put too much effort into it, I'm sorry that some of you put so much effort into critiquing satirical content as a genuine effort to improve the game.

    I ended up enjoying the thread as a troll would which makes me even more guilty, but the initial intention was just to satirize some of GW's recent developments with OP Stratagems that turn Skitarii Vanguard into killing machines.

    The Self Destruction change was made to make it 100% clear that it was just satirical and as a joke based on discussions had in another thread about whether 6MW for 1CP is too much. As one poster pointed out there is no reason to even roll the dice, it's always going to be 6MW.

    If I was to actually suggest changes to Stratagems I would suggest nerfs, you should never get more things to worry about as a non-Necron player when Necrons get an FAQ. If you've read all the Stratagems you should be prepared, at worst you should be playing around a Stratagem that is no longer as strong as you expected, but if you play around expecting 2MW and get dealt 6MW that would be a bad experience. These Stratagem changes would create homework for the entire 40k community. I do disagree with some opinions.

    I think it would largely be irrelevant whether Crypteks can heal 2 units or an infinite number of units, being within range of more than 2 damaged units seems nearly impossible.

    Resurrection Protocols as I suggested it would be far too effective, you could put a character on an objective and know no amount of shooting would pull them off and they'd live with 4 wounds unless they got charged.

    The Nightbringer wounds on 2+ against monsters and 4+ against Rhinos, most C'tan wound on 5+ against these units, so the Nightbringer would not be made irrelevant by the Stratagem change I suggested.
       
    Made in us
    Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord





    In My Lab

     vict0988 wrote:
    The Self Destruction change was made to make it 100% clear that it was just satirical and as a joke based on discussions had in another thread about whether 6MW for 1CP is too much. As one poster pointed out there is no reason to even roll the dice, it's always going to be 6MW.
    To address this specific point, the differences between Poxwalker's Strat and this one are numerous.

    Poxwalkers are slow-4" Move.
    Scarabs are fast-10", if I recall correctly.

    Poxwalkers lose efficiency for every model lost when using their strat.
    Scarabs do not-they just need one to live.

    Poxwalkers need to get 18 models in Close Combat to do 6 MWs on average.
    Scarabs need a single one.

    Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne! 
       
    Made in dk
    Pyro Pilot of a Triach Stalker






     JNAProductions wrote:
     vict0988 wrote:
    The Self Destruction change was made to make it 100% clear that it was just satirical and as a joke based on discussions had in another thread about whether 6MW for 1CP is too much. As one poster pointed out there is no reason to even roll the dice, it's always going to be 6MW.
    To address this specific point, the differences between Poxwalker's Strat and this one are numerous.

    Poxwalkers are slow-4" Move.
    Scarabs are fast-10", if I recall correctly.

    Poxwalkers lose efficiency for every model lost when using their strat.
    Scarabs do not-they just need one to live.

    Poxwalkers need to get 18 models in Close Combat to do 6 MWs on average.
    Scarabs need a single one.

    Why did you have a problem with Relentless Onslaught? Warriors lose efficiency with every model lost, oh woe is me, what am I going to do? Should the Stratagem be less powerful such that I have to *gasp* not use the Stratagem in situations where the Stratagem is bad? Should the Stratagem be capped to a reasonable number of automatic hits based on its low cost? Hmmm. It's no sweat off your back if you don't get to use a Stratagem, you will just use other Stratagems. But if you get to use a Stratagem that is costed for a 50 pt unit on a 100 pt unit once in every ten games then the hammer falls on your opponent. We have already established you don't like it when Necrons have access to powerful force multipliers on their big units, why should Death Guard have it?

    100 pts of Poxwalkers can deal 12 mortal wounds to a Knight for 2CP, these are god damn zombies dragging a Knight halfway to hell, Necrons at least have anti-armour weapons in the fluff and a unit of 20 costs 260, but again, this was a joke and you're defending a joke as if it it is good game design. "Stay 18" away from my full-size Warrior units with your Knights" is not a good argument for having Stratagems that are in some situations cost half or less of what they should cost in that situation. How easy or difficult a Stratagem is to maximize should have less impact than the maximum output of the Stratagem, because players will find the max impact, even if you think it unlikely or they will simply not use the Stratagem. Print enough Stratagems and people will find the ones that seem hard on paper to maximize and they build their lists around getting a lot of value for their CP. If you paid for Stratagems before the battle it would be different, but your argument that it's niche so it should be extra strong is bad.
       
    Made in gb
    Lord of the Fleet






    London

    So if your entire argument is "jokes on you guys I was actually being ironic", what's the point of this entire thread?

       
    Made in us
    Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord





    In My Lab

    Poxwalkers can deal a lot of mortal wounds... if they survive to get there with their paltry T4 6+++ and and 4” move.

    Your proposed Scarab stratagem is much, much easier to use.
    As is your auto-hit stratagem for Infantry. Shooting is much easier to do than melee.

    Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne! 
       
    Made in dk
    Pyro Pilot of a Triach Stalker






    You saying that a Stratagem is easier to use does not convince me it needs to deal much less damage. The cost is the same, whether you are using a Stratagem once every 10 games or 30 times every 10 games, a 1CP Stratagem is still a 1CP Stratagem and should do 1CP's worth of effect. Said in another way, if the 6MW Scarab Stratagem only worked on TITANIC units it would still be OP. Much like Vengeance for Cadia is OP despite it only working against CHAOS.
     Valkyrie wrote:
    So if your entire argument is "jokes on you guys I was actually being ironic", what's the point of this entire thread?

    The joke was supposed to be on GW, not on you.

    This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/04 15:32:55


     
       
    Made in us
    Lesser Daemon of Chaos





     vict0988 wrote:
    You saying that a Stratagem is easier to use does not convince me it needs to deal much less damage. The cost is the same, whether you are using a Stratagem once every 10 games or 30 times every 10 games, a 1CP Stratagem is still a 1CP Stratagem and should do 1CP's worth of effect. Said in another way, if the 6MW Scarab Stratagem only worked on TITANIC units it would still be OP. Much like Vengeance for Cadia is OP despite it only working against CHAOS.


    Under your logic all weapons that cause D6 damage should cost the same since they can create the same outcome. No need to correct for range, AP, or strength since technically they can all do D6 damage.

    Also if your satire is indistinguishable from what your mocking then you’ve completely missed the point of satire. That being said, the amount of salt you needed to create this thread is astounding. You got so into it, you completely overshadowed your point with OP rules.

    Iron within, Iron without 
       
    Made in dk
    Pyro Pilot of a Triach Stalker






     evil_kiwi_60 wrote:
     vict0988 wrote:
    You saying that a Stratagem is easier to use does not convince me it needs to deal much less damage. The cost is the same, whether you are using a Stratagem once every 10 games or 30 times every 10 games, a 1CP Stratagem is still a 1CP Stratagem and should do 1CP's worth of effect. Said in another way, if the 6MW Scarab Stratagem only worked on TITANIC units it would still be OP. Much like Vengeance for Cadia is OP despite it only working against CHAOS.


    Under your logic all weapons that cause D6 damage should cost the same since they can create the same outcome. No need to correct for range, AP, or strength since technically they can all do D6 damage.

    Also if your satire is indistinguishable from what your mocking then you’ve completely missed the point of satire. That being said, the amount of salt you needed to create this thread is astounding. You got so into it, you completely overshadowed your point with OP rules.

    The idea that Stratagem cost should be based on how often they are usable would only make sense if they cost something before the game, which lascannons do. If lascannons cost 0 points before the game and then you could wait to pay for it when you need it to shoot at a Carnifex then it would have to be costed as how good it is versus Carnifexes and not against Pink Horrors because in the second scenario you would simply not pay for the lascannon. Or if you could wait to roll to hit with your boltguns and replace one of the hits with a lascannon hit then the value of lascannons would be increased as it would hit all the time as long as at least one bolter made a hit.

    Wikipedia wrote:Satire is a genre of the visual, literary, and performing arts, usually in the form of fiction and less frequently non-fiction, in which vices, follies, abuses, and shortcomings are held up to ridicule, with the intent of shaming individuals, corporations, government, or society itself into improvement.

    I understand the point of satire perfectly thank you.

       
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    In My Lab

     vict0988 wrote:
     evil_kiwi_60 wrote:
     vict0988 wrote:
    You saying that a Stratagem is easier to use does not convince me it needs to deal much less damage. The cost is the same, whether you are using a Stratagem once every 10 games or 30 times every 10 games, a 1CP Stratagem is still a 1CP Stratagem and should do 1CP's worth of effect. Said in another way, if the 6MW Scarab Stratagem only worked on TITANIC units it would still be OP. Much like Vengeance for Cadia is OP despite it only working against CHAOS.


    Under your logic all weapons that cause D6 damage should cost the same since they can create the same outcome. No need to correct for range, AP, or strength since technically they can all do D6 damage.

    Also if your satire is indistinguishable from what your mocking then you’ve completely missed the point of satire. That being said, the amount of salt you needed to create this thread is astounding. You got so into it, you completely overshadowed your point with OP rules.

    The idea that Stratagem cost should be based on how often they are usable would only make sense if they cost something before the game, which lascannons do. If lascannons cost 0 points before the game and then you could wait to pay for it when you need it to shoot at a Carnifex then it would have to be costed as how good it is versus Carnifexes and not against Pink Horrors because in the second scenario you would simply not pay for the lascannon. Or if you could wait to roll to hit with your boltguns and replace one of the hits with a lascannon hit then the value of lascannons would be increased as it would hit all the time as long as at least one bolter made a hit.

    Wikipedia wrote:Satire is a genre of the visual, literary, and performing arts, usually in the form of fiction and less frequently non-fiction, in which vices, follies, abuses, and shortcomings are held up to ridicule, with the intent of shaming individuals, corporations, government, or society itself into improvement.

    I understand the point of satire perfectly thank you.

    You can work towards getting MW from Poxwalkers. Just like you can work towards getting MW from Scarabs.

    The difference is that MW from Poxwalkers is one MW per three Poxwalkers that get to swing in CC for 1 CP, or a little less than double that for double the CP. And given that Poxwalkers are a slow and not especially durable unit... It's easy to counter that.

    Whereas with your strat, you only need to get one Scarab into close combat. That's much, much easier to achieve. To put another way, the amount of investment needed to reliably get 6 MW from Poxwalkers is pretty high-the amount of effort needed to get a singular Scarab into close combat is much lesser.

    Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne! 
       
    Made in dk
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     JNAProductions wrote:
    The difference is that MW from Poxwalkers is one MW per three Poxwalkers that get to swing in CC for 1 CP, or a little less than double that for double the CP. And given that Poxwalkers are a slow and not especially durable unit... It's easy to counter that.

    Whereas with your strat, you only need to get one Scarab into close combat. That's much, much easier to achieve. To put another way, the amount of investment needed to reliably get 6 MW from Poxwalkers is pretty high-the amount of effort needed to get a singular Scarab into close combat is much lesser.

    Do you think the amount of MWs the Scarab Stratagem inflicts should be increased if it only worked against Titanic units? How about if it only worked in your deployment zone? If so why.
       
    Made in us
    Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord





    In My Lab

     vict0988 wrote:
     JNAProductions wrote:
    The difference is that MW from Poxwalkers is one MW per three Poxwalkers that get to swing in CC for 1 CP, or a little less than double that for double the CP. And given that Poxwalkers are a slow and not especially durable unit... It's easy to counter that.

    Whereas with your strat, you only need to get one Scarab into close combat. That's much, much easier to achieve. To put another way, the amount of investment needed to reliably get 6 MW from Poxwalkers is pretty high-the amount of effort needed to get a singular Scarab into close combat is much lesser.

    Do you think the amount of MWs the Scarab Stratagem inflicts should be increased if it only worked against Titanic units? How about if it only worked in your deployment zone? If so why.
    Deployment zone only? Sure. That's much easier to counter, and much harder for the Necron player to actively hit the enemy with.

    TITANIC only? Probably not-at that point, it's still just as easy to use, just only against some armies.

    This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/06/05 04:45:39


    Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne! 
       
    Made in dk
    Pyro Pilot of a Triach Stalker






     JNAProductions wrote:
     vict0988 wrote:
     JNAProductions wrote:
    The difference is that MW from Poxwalkers is one MW per three Poxwalkers that get to swing in CC for 1 CP, or a little less than double that for double the CP. And given that Poxwalkers are a slow and not especially durable unit... It's easy to counter that.

    Whereas with your strat, you only need to get one Scarab into close combat. That's much, much easier to achieve. To put another way, the amount of investment needed to reliably get 6 MW from Poxwalkers is pretty high-the amount of effort needed to get a singular Scarab into close combat is much lesser.

    Do you think the amount of MWs the Scarab Stratagem inflicts should be increased if it only worked against Titanic units? How about if it only worked in your deployment zone? If so why.
    Deployment zone only? Sure. That's much easier to counter, and much harder for the Necron player to actively hit the enemy with.

    Why should it matter whether a Stratagem is easy to counter or harder to make use of?
       
    Made in us
    Lesser Daemon of Chaos





     vict0988 wrote:

    Why should it matter whether a Stratagem is easy to counter or harder to make use of?


    You can’t be serious. So you think that as long as two stratagems result in the same thing, they should cost the same amount of CP? So if a stratagem says cause D3 mortal wounds to a visible unit within 24” and another says cause D3 mortal wounds to an enemy unit in engagement range, they should both cost the same CP?

    Iron within, Iron without 
       
    Made in dk
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     evil_kiwi_60 wrote:
     vict0988 wrote:

    Why should it matter whether a Stratagem is easy to counter or harder to make use of?


    You can’t be serious. So you think that as long as two stratagems result in the same thing, they should cost the same amount of CP? So if a stratagem says cause D3 mortal wounds to a visible unit within 24” and another says cause D3 mortal wounds to an enemy unit in engagement range, they should both cost the same CP?

    Yes, but I'd say you could either price them both at 1CP and give each a downside, the ranged one having a slightly larger downside or price them both at 2CP and give the melee one an additional upside or do 2CP for the ranged one with an upside and 1CP for the melee one with a downside. You are dealing D3 MW either way and you are paying 1CP it either way.

    When you have 30 Stratagems, then having 10 niche Stratagems that are 2D3 MW for 1CP is stronger because those niche situations will pop up when you have enough such Stratagems and it's impossible to balance out how many niche undercosted Stratagems factions have access to, that moves the balance problem over to the points department and Poxwalkers paying more because of access to Stratagems that are sometimes very effective is silly, I'd rather just have them operate as they should out of the box and then have Stratagems offer small buffs.

    Balancing every Stratagem around 1MW is much easier. If a Stratagem is niche then it's niche and that's okay, that 1MW worth of effect will still be useful when it comes up. Of course, no Stratagem should be useless, so they have to be worth using over the core rulebook Stratagems at least occasionally, but I'd rather have 10 useless Stratagems than 1 very OP Stratagem because people are just going to spam that Stratagem to the best of their ability to imbalance the game in their favour or completely swing games if the power of the Stratagem has been increased enough (12MW to a TITANIC unit in your Deployment zone within 1" of a C'TAN and a CANOPTEK SCARAB unit). Sometimes a Stratagem will have such a low downside that its cost will be out of whack with its output and that's okay.

    I am perfectly serious at this time, pinky swear.
       
     
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