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Thoughts on non standard chaos legion cult worship (for example, Nurgle World eaters)  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
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Made in lu
Rampaging Khorne Dreadnought






Heya,

I'd like to hear some thoughts on how different legions could fall to different gods? Thinking specifically Dark angels as in fallen angels, World Eaters, word bearers and DG, but any thoughts would be welcome
I'm considering drawing the different cults from different legions in a black legion warband. (totally not just looking for an excuie to field certain cool models into a Black Legion army :smile
Anybody could perform rituals for any god without actually worshipping it, but it doesn't work well on the table top. Better to have a visual aspect too. (all it takes is for a lord to give orders)

Like I could see World eaters fall to Nurgle. All world eaters are berzerkers and all that but it's not really ALL most likely.
I'd say it's pretty reasonable to say that a handful of any given legion would diverge from the legion as a whole. Even with Legions like the deathguard, that were offered up by their primarch, some remained unaffected.
So it's possible to have some outliers, otherwise we'd have stuff like plague marine Nathaniel Garro. They would be few, but I would say there is enough room for some homebrew.

With the WE example, even as a berzeker it could work, that doesn't automatically make them khorne aligned. Just very very likely to. Arguably you only become a berzerker by being firmly aligned to Khorne, but I mean it in the sense of running headlong into battle.
The nails are nice and all but they are relentless. And WE don't just become frothing maniacs because of them.
It could make sense for some stronger willed individuals to seek a way to offset the negatives by dulling the pain a bit outside of combat. All whilst having no desire to loose the clarity they provide during combat.

Any WE would live for combat, but a stronger body helps in that too. Nurgle champions are tough as nails.If you then want to stay in the fight as long as possible, this could be alluring.
To keep fighting as opposed to welcoming their own death. Without sacrificing any of the melee aspects.
There are a bunch of Gladiator type Fantasy models for nurgle and this works well with word eaters who have somewhat gladiatorial traditions.
Or they could see the nails as being another form of slavery which they want to reject, all while having undeniable benefits in battle.
To follow any god leads to becoming a puppet, but even belakor deludes himself to be free, so that's not really an obstacle to me.

Worship could be done by virtue of letting the defeated rot. Stitching up the wounds with a little help from papa nurgle, with each wound corrupting them inch by inch (literally)
Filling gladiatorial pits with the dead as a reminder of failure and the fate that awaits you. Over time they might get the odd weapon or so lodged in them, and they just don't bother taking them out.
Maybe seeing it as a badge of honour too of past battles. Causing infections that fester, and so on.
Point being, despite a martial mindset, it could work.

On the other hand I could never see them falling to Tzeentch or Slaanesh. They aren't really about that kind of obsession and if...then it would end in them becoming obsessed with blood/cannibalism/butchery or so, which would probably end up attracting khorne more and pushing them down the eightfold path after all.
And tzeentch just has no allure to a world eater even with mind gymnastics.

Thousand Sons could potentially develop various obsessions, but again, that would most likely see them on the path of Tzeentch. Though they might become obsessed with vengeance, against the wolves, against the imperium that ordered their obliteration (don't tell them it was on order of the Black Legion )
This could maybe lead them to khorne as thier ire expands to those getting in their way and just getting consumed with hatred in general. A debt to the imperium payed in blood, that's all the worship needed for ye old blood god. Their arcane knowledge could still come in handy for forging daemon weapons and such.
Maybe even go as far as having beef with tzeentch for tricking their legion. Using their knowledge for protection against it's arcane trickery.

In a similar vein, Death guard could become disgusted by their primarch becoming that which they hated, a psyker. They would not yield as a legion, wading right through fire.
And they see their legion become a mockery of what they were, giving in to pain and fear to become plague marines. This could work as a angle to have them follow Khorne.
Horus himself remarked how they all became mere animals, feeling disdain even while hellbent on destroying the imperium. So you can follow Chaos just fine all while hating what it does.

Dark Angels could also fall to Khorne after the split, wanting none of the politics that lead to their fall. focusing just on what they do best...Crusade.
That same thing could lead do Slaanesh. Just like the empereors children, they are arrogant, and prideful with a burning need to be the best at to have everybody know it.

I'd go on, but for now I need to get back to work


   
Made in gb
Member of a Lodge? I Can't Say





Just to get it out of the way, 40k is a big setting you can do what you want and come up with any reason, and 90% of the time people won't bat an eye. OK, now that's out of the way.

Spoiler:
 Roknar wrote:
Heya,

Like I could see World eaters fall to Nurgle. All world eaters are berzerkers and all that but it's not really ALL most likely.
I'd say it's pretty reasonable to say that a handful of any given legion would diverge from the legion as a whole. Even with Legions like the deathguard, that were offered up by their primarch, some remained unaffected.
So it's possible to have some outliers, otherwise we'd have stuff like plague marine Nathaniel Garro. They would be few, but I would say there is enough room for some homebrew.

With the WE example, even as a berzeker it could work, that doesn't automatically make them khorne aligned. Just very very likely to. Arguably you only become a berzerker by being firmly aligned to Khorne, but I mean it in the sense of running headlong into battle.
The nails are nice and all but they are relentless. And WE don't just become frothing maniacs because of them.
It could make sense for some stronger willed individuals to seek a way to offset the negatives by dulling the pain a bit outside of combat. All whilst having no desire to loose the clarity they provide during combat.

Any WE would live for combat, but a stronger body helps in that too. Nurgle champions are tough as nails.If you then want to stay in the fight as long as possible, this could be alluring.
To keep fighting as opposed to welcoming their own death. Without sacrificing any of the melee aspects.
There are a bunch of Gladiator type Fantasy models for nurgle and this works well with word eaters who have somewhat gladiatorial traditions.
Or they could see the nails as being another form of slavery which they want to reject, all while having undeniable benefits in battle.
To follow any god leads to becoming a puppet, but even belakor deludes himself to be free, so that's not really an obstacle to me.

Worship could be done by virtue of letting the defeated rot. Stitching up the wounds with a little help from papa nurgle, with each wound corrupting them inch by inch (literally)
Filling gladiatorial pits with the dead as a reminder of failure and the fate that awaits you. Over time they might get the odd weapon or so lodged in them, and they just don't bother taking them out.
Maybe seeing it as a badge of honour too of past battles. Causing infections that fester, and so on.
Point being, despite a martial mindset, it could work.

On the other hand I could never see them falling to Tzeentch or Slaanesh. They aren't really about that kind of obsession and if...then it would end in them becoming obsessed with blood/cannibalism/butchery or so, which would probably end up attracting khorne more and pushing them down the eightfold path after all.
And tzeentch just has no allure to a world eater even with mind gymnastics.


The idea behind the God-aligned Legions (EC, WE, TS, and DG) is that they are sort of bound to those God's by fate and pacts. Magnus made a pact with Tzeentch to save the TS from the Wolves, the Word Bearers manipulated the World Eaters and Death Guard into Khorn and Nurgle's service respectively, and Fulgrim and many EC were corrupted after the Cleansing of the Laer, and while some Legion forces escaped the purges or never joined the traitors, merely belonging to any of these Legions in a post-Heresy mean they were outcast and likely slaughtered or simply died out in the depths of space. Thus far only one traitor Legion-loyalist is confirmed to have survived the Heresy into the Scouring (Crysos Mortug of the Death Guard and later a loyalist Blackshield) since the Siege of Terra books aren't finished yet.
As for the WE specifically, the Nails impact their thoughts at all times and even the Emperor couldn't find a way to either reduce their effects or remove them entirely. It wasn't just the Nails that pushed the Legion into the arms of Khorne but they absolutely played a part.
When it comes to being dedicated to a Chaos God, flip-flopping between them or changing allegiance is a big no-no. It's a case of "Wrath of God" where if you decide to serve Khorne then switch to any of the others, there is fully a chance you get decapitated in your sleep. The God's will always try to tempt someone dedicated to Chaos Undivided into their service with gifts and power, so it takes an individual with very strong willpower to remain undedicated.

Spoiler:
Thousand Sons could potentially develop various obsessions, but again, that would most likely see them on the path of Tzeentch. Though they might become obsessed with vengeance, against the wolves, against the imperium that ordered their obliteration (don't tell them it was on order of the Black Legion )
This could maybe lead them to khorne as thier ire expands to those getting in their way and just getting consumed with hatred in general. A debt to the imperium payed in blood, that's all the worship needed for ye old blood god. Their arcane knowledge could still come in handy for forging daemon weapons and such.
Maybe even go as far as having beef with tzeentch for tricking their legion. Using their knowledge for protection against it's arcane trickery.

In a similar vein, Death guard could become disgusted by their primarch becoming that which they hated, a psyker. They would not yield as a legion, wading right through fire.
And they see their legion become a mockery of what they were, giving in to pain and fear to become plague marines. This could work as a angle to have them follow Khorne.
Horus himself remarked how they all became mere animals, feeling disdain even while hellbent on destroying the imperium. So you can follow Chaos just fine all while hating what it does.

Dark Angels could also fall to Khorne after the split, wanting none of the politics that lead to their fall. focusing just on what they do best...Crusade.
That same thing could lead do Slaanesh. Just like the empereors children, they are arrogant, and prideful with a burning need to be the best at to have everybody know it.



Tsons could never serve Khorne because Khorne hates sorcery, which is the Tsons whole deal.
There is a faction known as the Purge that seeks to destroy all life, including the other followers of Chaos and themselves, because they view it as irredeemably corrupted. They are a Death Guard splinter faction yet still serve Nurgle.
It's important to remember the Gods embody hundreds of aspects that sometimes overlap or are similar but the smaller aspects are not usually the ones that a Warband will dedicate itself to.
Fallen aren't even united on their dedication to Chaos so them serving any of the God's is perfectly fine.
Basically, follow this:
All WE are Khornate, but not all Khornate's are WE.
All DG are Nurglite, but not all Nurglite's are DG.
All TS are Tzeentchian, but not all Tzeentchian's are TS.
All EC are Slaanshi, but not all Slaaneshi are EC.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/02 13:18:41


 
   
Made in lu
Rampaging Khorne Dreadnought






I mostly agree, but I'm not seeking to make this a whole warband, just some units, if not individual models within a larger warband.
What I'm looking for is plausible scenarios, I don't really subscribe to the crazier stuff.
I'm not saying such a splinter would last long, but that is a very relative thing in the warp. And we get the luxury of picking your preferred slice of time in the wider universe.

Switching gods or courting them is a bad idea, but we know it is done.
We only really have rumours but there are very likely successor chapters of cult legions out there that thus would not be subject to any pact, or at least not in any measurable way.
And in the case of blood ravens potentially even not being affected by such devastating spells as the rubric of Ahriman. And incidentally also giving us khornate psykers.
Even if this isn't confirmed, personally I would say such things are well with the reasonable realm.
Never mind warp shenanigans and having some patrol boat or so go missing and avoid the fate of their brethren.

Things like the nails or the rubric are a bit tougher to sell, but for the nails for example, they are still able to think for themselves.
The nails don't take over, they "only" colour their thoughts. And Iron Will is technically speaking rare, but even so, found in ample supply.
Maintaining that over centuries/millenia is a different story, but I just need them to keep it together long enough to get the ball rolling.
Even Khornate psykers are not a hard pass from me. Provided they do not use warp magic and stop using spells on pain of death.....so they wouldn't really be psykers anymore.

BUT, their greater presence in the warp would provide a better conduit for offering "prayer". Even then though it would be a wash.
Any significant amount of time spent worshipping khorne would see them become indistinguishable from any non psyker astartes.
Khorne psykers blasting spells..no...not possible. Psykers turning to khorne and becoming your average zerker over time, yes.
(Though this khorne psyker thing being so exceedingly minute a possibility that it borders on un-plausible)

- So how does a squad or two avoid their legion fate?
uuuh...*waves hands* Magic ( but has happened and there are reasonable explanations)
- who else could they follow?
still dictated by the legions character/history. It needs to be convicing.
Technically anything is possible but I'd rather not pull a mcguffin out of a hat.

Imperial fists for example. Khorne I see a bit less, they are too disciplined, too cold. But then so are iron warriors and some of those turn to khorne, so I guess that could work.
Slaanesh I could see happening also because of their discipline and pushing it to extremes, as well as getting a little to comfortable with pain gloves.
Stripping away more and more and taking a spartan lifestyle too far, instead of seeking extremes of sensation, seeking a lack thereof could work, which in itself could be an exterme form of depression or so.
Dorns Curse...so in a way emo fists I guess...woe.
Tzeentch I don't see an angle, and maaaaybe Nurgle for much the same reeason as Slaanesh, but it strikes me more Slaaneshi than Nurgle.

Word bearers I am struggling however to see any one particular god. They are undivided through and through.
Their corruption has just been too long in the making. And they truly worship, unlike the other undivided legions who offer sacrifice for power.
Not that it stops them from helping out here and there for their own (t)reasons.
This could be explained however in them engineering the demise of such an offshoot. Working in secret to sacrifice them to the original patron god of their legion.
Pacts gotta be honored after all.


   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut







So here's the thing about if you're trying to find a few members of a different cult...

Way back in the original Realms of Chaos books, the situation was that you could form a war band out of a leader of one cult and include followers of the two non-diametrically opposing cults. So, for example, a Khorne leader could have Khorne, Nurgle and Tzeentch followers but wouldn't include Slaanesh followers--the war band leader was assumed to be able to talk the lesser parts of the war band into working together, although I think there were some animosity mechanics.

That sort of arrangement, where, say, a Death Guard war band picks up a band of Berzerkers, could happen for any number of reasons.

But the thing to remember is that the recognizable traits of the various legions, like the marks of Nurgle on the Death Guard, are basically stereotypes (limited by the practicality of the war-game and design schedules), and the results of the cult's influence over time. In order to get that far, the legion members have been that way for a long time. Same goes for something like the World Eater Berzerkers or the Emperor's Children Noise Marines. You don't just pound a bunch of nails in the dude's head and the next day he's got frenzy or berserk charge or whatever the current edition's effects are.
(Even stuff like the Rubric can basically be viewed as a stereotype. The end result of giving marine psykers transformation knowledge is that everyone else ends up getting turned into magic space automata one way or the other... And groups that don't exhibit the legion traits look awfully similar to regular CSM groups.)

If you went back to the Heresy and picked through the various legions, it's entirely possible that you'd be able to find small groups of marines being influenced to non-typical cults. But over time the result would probably be that the splinter groups grow apart from the main group of the legion, to the point where they're no different if the legion had picked up a straggler from a different cult.

So, yeah, it's entirely reasonable that a legion group could pick up a group of a different cult as a short or long term ally, or that the legion may have had small different-cult splinter groups when it was going heretic and those splinter groups stayed together. But the stereotypes for each of the groups is still going to end up being the same.

   
Made in de
Contagious Dreadnought of Nurgle




The Black Legion has established god-aligned subfactions like the Hounds of Abaddon that are Khorne worshippers or the Bringers of Decay that are a Nurgle aligned warband inside the Black Legion. I think that's the easiest way to do what you are looking for, Khorne aligned DG Marines really seems like a stretch, as it's the most defining aspect of each god-specific Legion to worship their god.
   
Made in us
Lesser Daemon of Chaos





I think there are several ways to approach this but you should definitely just pick whatever option sounds the best to you. The joy of 40k is you can make whatever you want. It’s all for fun anyways.

First option is you could go for an element from a god aligned legion who was not with their primarch during the heresy and retreat to the eye. The galaxy is a big place and during the heresy the traitors still had to defend planets from counter attack. A company of death guard may have missed the jump that exposed them to the destroyer plague and instead pledged to a different god in the eye of terror. Even the khorne psychic one could be skirted. Imagine if a psyker voluntarily didn’t use his gifts and only fought his enemies in the khorne way. That would be a significant sign of devotion. Actually damn I kind of want to make that character now.

Second we do have evidence that powerful champions can get multiple booms from the chaos gods. Abbadon and Belakor both have received boons from all four gods. But the second black legion novel also deals with a death guard marine who is gunning for Abbadon’s spot as the champion of chaos. Clearly he can deal with multiple gods despite his single allegiance. I’m blanking on the name but both black legion books are really good.

Last option I can think of is a god literally stealing another god’s champion. With possession and corruption in the wheel house for chaos and the gods life long ambitions to screw each other over, it makes sense that they’d try to steal each other’s followers. If enticing doesn’t work more brunt ways are possible. It seems like a great way to thumb their noses at each other.

Iron within, Iron without 
   
 
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