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Made in fr
Spawn of Chaos





I'm quite new to the hobby and there is quite a lot of dispersed lore to go through. Sorry if the answer is obvious.

So, I was wondering: What do we know of Chaos worshipping outside of the Imperium and the CSM ?

Can Orks be chaos worshippers ? Are some of them worshipping Korn for example ? Making them Kork, Kornk, Kornork ... Ornk berserkers ?
Can Eldars worship Chaos even with the whole Slanesh thing ? What about the Dark Eldars ?
What about the Taus ? Or the other species part of their empire. (Kroot and so on)
I'm guessing Tyranids can't, can they ? With the whole hive mind thing.
If a Necron is sentient enough can they worship them ?
What about the species specifically created by the gods like the Tzaangors ? Do we know about other non daemonic species linked to chaos ?


Sorry if there already was a thread about this little conundrum. But I couldn't find any.

-"For the Ruinous Powers!" 
   
Made in gb
Lit By the Flames of Prospero






I'm not 100% on Orks but the rest should be fairly simple:
All Aeldari (Craftworld/Exodite/Drukhari/Harlequins) - Categorically no. Slaanesh eats their soul if they die. Chaos worship is a big no-no.
T'au - T'au don't have a large enough "soul" to represent themselves in the Warp. They believe in the mixed sociological-religious system known as the Greater Good. However, auxiliary races that do have big soul imprints like Humans/Kroot/Demiurg (?) have maybe made a Warp representation of the Greater Good, which to the T'au is SUPER not ok.
Necrons - Used to worship the C'tan sort of, then they figured out the C'tan were bad, then they turned the C'tan into pokemon.
Nid's - All exist under the Hive Mind which doesn't need to worship anything because it's basically a God anyway.
Other Xenos - There were hundreds of Xenos exterminated during the Great Crusade, one of which was the Laer who worshipped Slaanesh and the purging of the Laer by the Emperor's Children led the Legion into the embrace of Slaanesh.
   
Made in us
Exalted Beastlord




Can Orks be chaos worshippers ? Are some of them worshipping Korn for example ? Making them Kork, Kornk, Kornork ... Ornk berserkers ?

Once upon a time (1st edition)...

some stormboyz worshipped Khorne. But the old version of stormboys was young orks caught up in the mysteries of regimentation and boot polishing.

Some freebooterz were Chaos Renegades and champions, and there were ork mutants and possessed Warpheads as well.

All were looked at with suspicion and ridicule, and weren't 'properly orky.' Dangerous close combat mutations cut them some slack, but orks in general were pretty indifferent to chaos.

Efficiency is the highest virtue. 
   
Made in ca
Stormin' Stompa






Individual Orks aren't outright immune to Chaos, but I would say the race as a whole is. Just like when Orks get infected with the genestealer spoor, Orks instinctively know what has gone "unOrky" and thus cull their own kind that don't jive with the psychic gestalt of the WAAAGH! that they generate. That's why you never see any Chaos Ork cult activity mentioned or Chaos WAAAGH!'s. Usually it doesn't get past a certain level before the Orks notice it and clobber any corrupted ladz. There's also the general problem that the Chaos Gods really don't have much to offer Orks. Ork bodies are tough and very resilient, meaning barring supernatural or genetically engineered diseases that Nurgle usually has no direct avenue to appeal to them that he usually does through despair/fecundity. Orks also don't really fear death in the manner most other races do. Orks can be excessive, per Speed Freaks and others, but it's always channelled within the context of a WAAAGH! and the path laid by Gork and Mork that limits Slaanesh's appeal. Ork society is brutally simple and largely self-sufficient which leads to Tzzentch not having much headway for scheming, and most grots are content with their lot in life. Khorne is the most likely to appeal to Orks, but given an Ork's ability to grow in size and strength over time, as well as the nature of Orks not being keen on anything that isn't a healthy shade of green, means Orks would be more interesting in fighting Khornates than joining them.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Tyranids are insulated from chaos corruption due to their hive mind. Arguably since they lack sapience they can never purposely serve the dark gods.

They can be rendered vulnerable to chaos corruption. Old fluff has examples of hive fleets purposely stranding organisms in the warp so that they'll develop mutations which can then be reabsorbed into the fleet. I think there were some examples of Nurgle genestealers which were larger and tougher but also somewhat slower.

GSCs are harder to say. Obviously they'd be most inclined to worship the patriarch, but there is at least one example of khornate GSC's whose patriarch fell to chaos worship and took the cult with it.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




DreadfullyHopeful wrote:

Can Orks be chaos worshippers ? Are some of them worshipping Korn for example ? Making them Kork, Kornk, Kornork ... Ornk berserkers ?

As others have pointed out, there seem to be some examples of this (mostly in possibly-outdated fluff). Seems like the answer is probably yes, but then other orks kill them off before they can really become too much of a thing. Note that some theories suggest ork reproduction is partially tied to the WAAAGH. Chaos corruption theoretically makes you unorky (less attuned to the WAAAGH), so chaos orks could theoretically end up unable to reproduce.

Can Eldars worship Chaos even with the whole Slanesh thing ? What about the Dark Eldars ?

They can actually! Old codices had a tiny little blurb about chaos eldar being extremely rare but among the most powerful servants of chaos. And the phoenix lord Arhra is said to have, "burned with the dark light of Chaos," whatever that means. That said, Slaanesh tends to instantly slurp up any souls not protected against her in some way. Managing to fall to chaos without getting eaten by Slaanesh requires quite the backstory. I like to headcanon that chaos eldar are basically so rare (due to the probably-convoluted backstory required) and so psychically powerful that each one is basically a special character with abilities roughly on par with something like an assassin. Keep in mind that eldar have a ton of psychic power that they intentionally seal off and don't use. Even a farseer is running his powers through the filter of a ton of heatsync/caution runes. An eldar marked by a chaos god might be able to comfortably shake off most of the power limiters and just physically manifest psychic phenomena like crazy.

Drukhari are basically the same as non-drukhari eldar except that their psychic abilities are "stunted" to avoid getting gulped down by Slaanesh. Although you could argue that their abilities aren't "stunted" so much as forced into an extremely specialized shape (soul/pain drinking).


What about the Taus ? Or the other species part of their empire. (Kroot and so on)

Tau themselves have "dim" souls. They're not much fun for daemons to eat. They're not that noticable in the warp. Chaos just isn't that into them. That said, there's nothing really stopping them from worshipping chaos or getting corrupted with a little effort. We see a water caste get possessed by a tzeentch daemon in one novel. Tau seem to be vulnerable to most of the same vices as humanity. I see no reason for chaos tau to be impossible. They're just not chaos magnets the way humans are, and ethereals may or may not be exerting psychic influences that tend to pull their fellow tau away from a properly chaos-y mindset.

Tau alien auxiliaries absolutely can be possessed by chaos. Nicassar seem to be aware that chaos is a thing (though we're not sure how they avoid it when using their telekinetic powers). We see a kroot that gets a bit chaos-y after eating some tainted meat in a short story; apparently it's standard practice to exile kroot who get corrupted in such a way. There isn't much reason to think other auxiliaries (vespid, dog soldiers, etc.) are immune to chaos, though they might not be chaos magnets like humans either. It's easy enough to think vespid might basically be resistant to chaos due to their hive mind mentality so long as their leaders aren't corrupted, for instance.


I'm guessing Tyranids can't, can they ? With the whole hive mind thing.

Tyranids seem to be physically corruptable. The Space Wolves Omnibus(?) has a brief bit where some 'nids appear to have been corrupted by Nurgle. The Spiral Dawn has what seems to be a GSC abominant that was basically an aberrant who got supercharged by chaos. GSC in general seem to be... resistant to proper chaos corruption. Mostly because their brains are already too thoroughly obsessed with the cult and its goals to let other influences seep in.

If a Necron is sentient enough can they worship them ?

Maybe. So first of all, 'crons generally seem to be pretty anti-god in general having been dicked over by some gods that they then proceeded to beat up and enslave in "living" memory. That said, sources seem to go back and forth on whether or not necrons actually have "souls." Like, sometimes they talk about how warriors are animated by a spark of their original life force that is just conscious enough to be tortured by its complete lack of free will, which implies that they have some sort of mind/soul. But then other times they're like, "Man. I sure do miss having a soul."

Without a "soul," it seems like 'crons wouldn't have much for chaos corruption to latch onto. Even if one did start worshipping Khorne or whatever, that seems like a great way to tick off the Praetorians and get yourself removed from the Silent King's equations.


What about the species specifically created by the gods like the Tzaangors ? Do we know about other non daemonic species linked to chaos ?

Let's see. There are the Laer (spelling) that seem to have a thing for Slaanesh. They may or may not be relatives of the Sslyth that you can field in a drukhari army. If I'm not mistaken, Tzaangor are considered "beast men" which fall under the umbrella of abhumans (like ogryn and ratlings). There have been mentions of some goat men that worship slaanesh.

And this is a real stretch on the word "species," but there's old fluff talking about eldar banshee spirits (the spirits that the aspect warriors are named after) that are implied to have sort of... "joined up" with Slaanesh or been forced into his service or whatever. Their screams lure spirits into the warp at the time of a craftworlder's death to prevent him from slipping into the protection of his spirit stone properly.
   
Made in fr
Spawn of Chaos





Thank you very much !

So I guess in the end it would somewhat fluffy to kitbash a couple of Ork Boyz into a squad of Korn Berserkers... Something to keep in mind !
I imagine that the notion of chaos in other races isn't much explored in the lore (outside of interesting anecdotal cases) because it would encroach on the theme of the faction.

Anyway, all of this gave me a couple of ideas to try out ! Like kitting out an Eldar warlock into a Chaos sorcerer. Or making an inter-species cultist troupe.
The possibilities are endless !

-"For the Ruinous Powers!" 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





Anything that has a psychic presence in the warp can be influenced by chaos.

So that’s Orks eldar and humans. We know some species like the Leare were encountered during the HH and there was a race of chaos worshippers that created the anathema sword that was used to poison Horus.

Which races have a psychic presence in the warp seems to be determined by wether or not they were created by the Old Ones who were masters of warp manipulations.

That’s why the necrons developed the black stone as it is like a dampening field for the warp.

What I’m not sure about is if the chaos gods existed before the fall of the old ones.

They seem to be the psychic manifestation of eldar and human etc emotions in the warp. The exlcusion is Orks who manifest Gork and Mork. However it is possible that their death, fungal nature, desire to be the best warrior in their klan and list for violence are fuelling the chaos gods
   
Made in no
Huge Bone Giant





Bergen

While AI is forbidden, there are many dark technomansers who has vehicles and datathings possessed by daemons. I do not know if you count that as workshop.

Dark Eldars are far to arogant to worhsip chaos. Slaneesh is always draining their soul, so they definativaly know that they are there and that gives a bad start for considering worship. If anything they worship idols who possessed some great qualaty they aspier to. They look porly on their own gods since they fell. Imagine that, ditching your gods because you thought they where to pathetic, even though they know they excist.

I am not saying that there is no eldar who does not worshop chaos. But it would be really weard.

If I recall correctly humans are very suited for falling to chaos. That is one of the things that drew the chaos gods to the emperor.

I am a dyslectic, so bear with me.

Dyslectics in a text based environment? Dakka is aware of you and sympathises with any troubles you have: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/505863.page

Kronos biovore box fresh sporemines. Denying psykick powers since 2017.

 
   
Made in ca
Pustulating Plague Priest






Shadow of the Warp is still a thing right? The Tyranid hive mind in and of itself is not a Chaos God, but it can “block out” the warp.

Since most ships travel the warp, one of the first steps in a Tyranid invasion is to block it out so that help cannot arrive. I think this only applies to creatures that have some psychic potential, such as Hive Tyrants.

Faithful... Enlightened... Ambitious... Brethren... WE NEED A NEW DRIVER! THIS ONE IS DEAD!  
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Niiai wrote:
While AI is forbidden, there are many dark technomansers who has vehicles and datathings possessed by daemons. I do not know if you count that as workshop.

Dark Eldars are far to arogant to worhsip chaos. Slaneesh is always draining their soul, so they definativaly know that they are there and that gives a bad start for considering worship. If anything they worship idols who possessed some great qualaty they aspier to. They look porly on their own gods since they fell. Imagine that, ditching your gods because you thought they where to pathetic, even though they know they excist.

I am not saying that there is no eldar who does not worshop chaos. But it would be really weard.

If I recall correctly humans are very suited for falling to chaos. That is one of the things that drew the chaos gods to the emperor.


I believe CSM etc bond demons to machines in place of machine spirits


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 SkavenLord wrote:
Shadow of the Warp is still a thing right? The Tyranid hive mind in and of itself is not a Chaos God, but it can “block out” the warp.

Since most ships travel the warp, one of the first steps in a Tyranid invasion is to block it out so that help cannot arrive. I think this only applies to creatures that have some psychic potential, such as Hive Tyrants.


The hive mind projects a shadow in the warp which I think is a bit like a fog of war on that chaos can’t see into it. Not the same as the pariah effect that necrons create which I think stops warp space/real space merging, so demons can’t pass through and psychic powered can not manifest.

The tyrannies can see the warp, it is either the astronomicon or the birth of slaneesh that attracted them to the Milky Way.

I suspect that a tyranid can be turned to chaos because it is not sentient and doesn’t have emotions but it would be interesting to see if a hive mind could be corrupted

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/07 18:28:49


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 SkavenLord wrote:
Shadow of the Warp is still a thing right? The Tyranid hive mind in and of itself is not a Chaos God, but it can “block out” the warp.

Since most ships travel the warp, one of the first steps in a Tyranid invasion is to block it out so that help cannot arrive. I think this only applies to creatures that have some psychic potential, such as Hive Tyrants.


My understanding was that the Shadow in the Warp wasn't about being cut off from the warp so much as the warp becoming especially unhealthy for one's sanity and senses. Like, if a tau soul is a candle and an eldar soul is a bonfire, the hive mind is an inferno that stretches across the horizon. So when psyker's start gibbering and bleeding out their ears, it's because they're able to sense that overwhelming presence; they're being scorched by the heat of the "inferno." Like having a search light pointed directly at your face, and you can't reliably keep your eyelids closed. Non-psykers, in this metaphor, have really crummy vision to begin with, so they're less sensitive to the searchlight but still get a headache from it.

I base this on the codex fluff I remember and the way various eldar novels describe touching upon the hive mind as basically causing them to be overwhelmed by the sheer intensity and strength of the weirdly-shaped mind. IIRC, the psykers in the Valedor novel are able to use their powers, but they're described as having trouble making sense of the skein because of the unpleasant sensation caused by the Shadow'.

That said, there are canonical examples of 'nids getting corrupted by chaos. Individual bugs don't seem to be immune, but the hive mind focusing on any given group of 'nids seems to be pretty good at dispersing psychic/chaos influence. So you could probably corrupt a pack of isolated genestealers that are separated from the hive mind's focus, but any corruption that has any amount of success against a portion of a hive fleet would probably draw the hive mind's attention and disperse whatever psychic influences are causing the corruption to manifest, possibly without the hive mind even consciously trying. And then it might have the rest of the hive fleet destroy the corrupted portion; the tyrannic equivalent of a sneeze.
   
Made in au
Longtime Dakkanaut





Anything can be corrupted by chaos. Chaos warps planets, trees, buildings, space ships and space itself.

Nothing is immune from chaos. not even necrons.


Corruption and worship are different things. Tyranids wouldn't worship chaos, but they can definitely be corrupted and altered by it.


As for orks, there are plenty of ways to envisage them becoming corrupted by chaos - we've got Tuska the daemon killa already being resurrected by Khorne for eternity.

I can totally see a speed freak force falling to Slannesh as they seek excess speed and become obsessed - I imagine the daemons look like doom rider when they show up, racing the orks to see who's the fastest....

   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





Orks will follow the biggest boss, wether it’s another ork a demon prince
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

mrFickle wrote:
Orks will follow the biggest boss, wether it’s another ork a demon prince



It's more that orks will follow the biggest and toughest ork. Otherwise they'd all be running around after Demon Princes.
IT goes back to that fact that Orks have a kind of group-think thing going on and can sense incorrect/corrupted orks and will cull them from the population. Orks remain a very pure race in general terms.


Also don't forget the Orks do have demons of their own, within the Warp there are Gork and Mork, the twin gods of Orks who consume the souls of orks that enter the warp through death. They are powerful entities who spend most of their time in the Warp beaching each other up in an endless battle. However every so often they will go and beat up the other 4 Great Chaos Gods, because they are orks and doing that is fun. They never "win" because they are orks and quickly fall back to infighting. However the fact that they can and will almost casually tear into the other 4 gods on a whim gives you an idea of how powerful they are. Much like orks in the Galaxy, if they were to unite and remain united for a long period of time, they would "win".



As for Genestealer Cults, don't forget that their cults, much like Chaos Cults as well, have varying levels within them. At the top you've those who are fully under the thrall of the Hive Mind and are mutated; at the bottom you've regular humans who are not corrupted in any way. Even the lower levels of mutation are only physical not always mental, alterations. IT's thus fully possible that a Genestealer Cult could have members who fall to Chaos. Heck if they lost their Patriarch at an early enough stage (or lost the majority of their more evolved members in one fell swoop) a smart Chaos cult could take them over. Again the lower ranks, the masses, are generally fairly normal, but they are indoctrinated in the cult, into a new way of thinking. Into ideals that they are going to rise up, take over, improve their lot in life from being a serf with nothing. That they will throw off the shackles of the Imperial Rule and usher in a new great age.



Eldar can very easily fall to Chaos, specifically Slaanesh. Eldar basically have a natural desire to experience things to a heightened level and with their long lifespan they are able to do this. They also experience emotoins in a much more elevated way compared to humans. They have to school and police themselves to the point that their whole society is built around such concepts, in order to avoid falling to excess and then corruption. It's not just the use of Soul Stones to prevent their souls being sucked into the Warp upon death; they have to fight against the chances of being corrupted by Chaos all the time.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/06/08 09:17:57


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The Swarm Arises

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Made in gb
[DCM]
Ambitious Archon





Port Carmine

 Niiai wrote:

Dark Eldars are far to arogant to worhsip chaos. Slaneesh is always draining their soul, so they definativaly know that they are there and that gives a bad start for considering worship. If anything they worship idols who possessed some great qualaty they aspier to. They look porly on their own gods since they fell. Imagine that, ditching your gods because you thought they where to pathetic, even though they know they excist .

From Path of the Archon:
‘What place is this?’ Xagor asked. ‘I recognise it. It’s called the Iconoclast’s mound,’ Bellathonis replied. ‘Raiding parties coming in through Port Carmine used to dump religious artefacts they’d taken – objects of faith, relics, icons – off the high roadway when they re-entered the city. It started as a joke, so I hear, but over time it became something of a tradition.’

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/08 11:57:31


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