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Made in ca
Regular Dakkanaut




United States

I haven't read anything from the Horus Heresy, only tidbits from what people have mentioned, but:

1. Erda! Read a brief summary of her, spoilers withholding, and I am fascinated if she is featured in any other novels than Saturnine? Is Saturnine worth a read from a standalone book?

2. The Emperor of Mankind! I am constantly coming back to his early days as the Emperor/Terran warlord and his creation of the Primarchs. What books would feature these concepts?

3. Malcador! Last but not least, as a perpetual and righthand man to the Emperor, I was wondering what books he is most prominently in?

4. Say if Angron, Fulgrim, etc. wanted to stop the current fracturing of their respective legions, if the call was made, would the warbands collectively become once again, a fully fledged legion? Or would the warbands just ignore them?

5. How does a Chaos Undivided Daemon Prince Primarch work? I thought that after Be'lakor, the Chaos Gods decided to never do such a thing, as it pouring power into one would be a waste because one, two or three of the other Chaos Gods could undermine the plans of the other.

6. We see that even in death, Ferrus Manus was summoned inside the Imperial Palace to fight off daemons that had broken through the Imperial Webway. That being said, could the likes of him, Konrad Curze or Sanguinius also be lingering in Real Space through means of a phylactery (animate or inanimate) or in the Warp? Not that it would happen, but could they theoretically be brought back?

7. When Tzeentch, Khorne and Nurgle were brought into existence, where were their "Eye of Terrors"? Slaanesh, arguably the weakest of them all, made a huge tear between Real Space and Warp Space.

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2021/06/08 03:48:00


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




These questions don't really touch on my areas of expertise, so others are free to correct me. That said...

 Psionara wrote:
I haven't read anything from the Horus Heresy, only tidbits from what people have mentioned, but:
2. The Emperor of Mankind! I am constantly coming back to his early days as the Emperor/Terran warlord and his creation of the Primarchs. What books would feature these concepts?

This stuff is kind of sprinkled all throughout the HH books. It's intentionally left vague; they don't want to lower the Emperor to the level of a "normal" character by spending too much time with him on camera. You'd honestly probably get a better overall picture of the unification wars and the primarch creation process by reading some wiki articles than by piecing them together from books.


4. Say if Angron, Fulgrim, etc. wanted to stop the current fracturing of their respective legions, if the call was made, would the warbands collectively become once again, a fully fledged legion? Or would the warbands just ignore them?

Neither the Emperor's Children nor the World Eaters are a monolith. Some would be eager to run to their primarch's side. Some have grown to loathe their gene daddies. Some have 10,000 years of their own projects that they've become kind of invested in. Some are too busy just surviving or being leashed to the will of other chaotic warlords to answer such a call. Some are not members of the original legions and would only know the primarchs through stories and reputation. The book Manflayer does a decent job of giving you an idea of how various factions of the Emperor's Children feel about Fulgrim.


5. How does a Chaos Undivided Daemon Prince Primarch work? I thought that after Be'lakor, the Chaos Gods decided to never do such a thing, as it pouring power into one would be a waste because one, two or three of the other Chaos Gods could undermine the plans of the other.

Good question. The Black Crusade rpg gave me the impression that some daemon princes are basically just the end result of a mortal acquiring enough favor from chaos as a whole rather than from a specific god. I could also see a chaos god giving a mortal sufficient power to become a prince without necessarily giving them a mark. Just because Khorne wants to see you wreck your little corner of the galaxy doesn't mean he's looking for a serious relationship right now. Also, there are supposedly minor chaos gods that aren't cool enough to get their own rules but that might be cool enough to sponsor a daemon prince. AFAIK, "prince" is more of a broad descriptor of how powerful/infused with chaos energy a former-mortal is; it's not necessarily an official, quantifiable thing in-universe. I could theoretically have a chaos lord that is so mutated and full of warp stuff that the daemon prince stats seem like a better fit than the chaos lord datasheet.


6. We see that even in death, Ferrus Manus was summoned inside the Imperial Palace to fight off daemons that had broken through the Imperial Webway. That being said, could the likes of him, Konrad Curze or Sanguinius also be lingering in Real Space through means of a phylactery (animate or inanimate) or in the Warp? Not that it would happen, but could they theoretically be brought back?

Ehhhhhh. Could they theoretically be brought back? I mean, that would involve the kind of over-the-top deus ex machina that defies all kinds of internal logic. So, yes I guess? The upper limit of various entities and warp phenomena in 40k are both ill-defined and grand. If an author goes, "Yo, the idea of Sanguinius is so beloved throughout the imperium that the collective belief in him has caused him to basically respawn," we wouldn't really be able to say that it contradicts anything in the setting material.

Can superman die and come back to life? Sure. The universe he lives in has various ways to allow it. Do we groan and roll our eyes every time he does? You bet.
   
Made in ro
Regular Dakkanaut




WRT Undivided daemon princes, back when they were an option it was explained they were just as, if not more, likely to be a daemon prince of a minor Chaos god rather than necessarily supported by all of the big 4.
This may or may not be the case for one or both of Lorgar and Perturabo.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





The answer to question 4 is if GW want to make it so then they will write it.

It could happen, certainly in the 3 Fabius bile novels we see that there are EC trying to rebuild the legion.

I don’t know so much about the WE.

But most members of the traitor legions are still committed to the idea of the false emperor and his destruction


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I’d like to see the legions leave the eye of terror to setup their own empires in territory claimed in the dark imperium

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/08 09:54:58


 
   
Made in gb
Esteemed Veteran Space Marine




Sheppey, England

 Psionara wrote:
Is Saturnine worth a read from a standalone book?


I think as long as you have a basic understanding of the Heresy, you'd get some enjoyment from Saturnine. Personally, I thought the final act was absolutely amazing, but if you've not read a lot of what's come before you might not get the full effect of the payoff.

Click for a Relictors short story: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/412814.page

And the sequels HERE and HERE

Final part's up HERE

 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




 Psionara wrote:

7. When Tzeentch, Khorne and Nurgle were brought into existence, where were their "Eye of Terrors"? Slaanesh, arguably the weakest of them all, made a huge tear between Real Space and Warp Space.


The original three came into existence gradually, as life started to develop. Slaanesh's birth was abrupt (sorta). So likely, it's the frog and the boiling pot scenario. Slaanesh also retains a strange connection to the Eldar that no other chaos god has to any other mortal races that we know of. There's been theories that Slaanesh has existed as a gestalt among all the gods/life all along.

Either that or the tears caused by the original three were so long ago that they eventually healed, diminished, or were sealed by Necrons/Old Ones. The Eye of Terror is the largest but it's by no means the only large tear in space--the other one off the top of my head being the Maelstom where the Astral Claws currently pirate out of.
   
Made in gb
Warning From Magnus? Not Listening!






 Psionara wrote:

7. When Tzeentch, Khorne and Nurgle were brought into existence, where were their "Eye of Terrors"? Slaanesh, arguably the weakest of them all, made a huge tear between Real Space and Warp Space.

Where's Slaanesh being the weakest coming from? All it is is the youngest God sort of maybe. The very nature of the Chaos God's means that as soon as they come into being they have always and always will exist, at least within the Warp so time really isn't a factor at play for them.
The first three were just sort of there and then the War in Heaven happened which broke the Warp, turning it into the murderous hellscape we know and love today. Slaanesh came into existence because of the collective excess of the Aeldari race built up to a crescendo over thousands of years which in turn caused such huge feedback in the Warp that it birthed a God who then exploded into realspace making the Eye in the centre of the old Aeldari empire, consume billions of souls and then slaughter the Aeldari pantheon.
The Aeldari basically launched an emotional nuke into the Warp.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





No species had lived in excess to the point where it generated enough force to create the entity called slaneesh.

Violence and death have been part of eldar ork and humans from day one. So khorne and nurgle have been around for ages. I think nurgle is the oldest and most powerful as all thing decay eventually.

Also note that these are the 4 forces of chaos working against humanity and the emperor. There are other chaos gods such as malal
   
Made in ca
Regular Dakkanaut




United States

 Gert wrote:
Where's Slaanesh being the weakest coming from? All it is is the youngest God sort of maybe. The very nature of the Chaos God's means that as soon as they come into being they have always and always will exist, at least within the Warp so time really isn't a factor at play for them.
The first three were just sort of there and then the War in Heaven happened which broke the Warp, turning it into the murderous hellscape we know and love today. Slaanesh came into existence because of the collective excess of the Aeldari race built up to a crescendo over thousands of years which in turn caused such huge feedback in the Warp that it birthed a God who then exploded into realspace making the Eye in the centre of the old Aeldari empire, consume billions of souls and then slaughter the Aeldari pantheon.
The Aeldari basically launched an emotional nuke into the Warp.
While the power of each Chaos God fluctuates, I would assume that the domain of perfection, pleasure and excess would be a lot less prevalent in the 40K universe as people are more concerned with bare basics (i.e. Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs). That is not to say that pleasure cults, warbands and the like don't exist, but just to a lesser extent than others. It's harder to implement large scale devotion to Slaanesh than to say, a single follower of Nurgle, who can take their body and spread a disease/plague across a planet and force a population mass to heed or suffer a horrible, slow, agonizing death. I mean, I guess a Slaaneshi acolyte could raid the strategic cocaine reserve and dump it into the water supply to get everyone high? Don't get me wrong, I think Slaanesh can beat others, but it's not often we see that. Again, that's why I said "arguably."
   
Made in gb
Warning From Magnus? Not Listening!






I would disagree and say that secret pleasure cults would be widespread in a society where life is full of misery, monotony, and general drudgery.
A bog-standard habber gets told about a secret club where they can feel joy and revel in forbidden delights and I would say for the most part they would go for it.
Of course the higher up the social ladder you climb the more decadent it gets. Priests committing sin against the God-Emperor by indulging in forbidden pleasures, the high-born scions of Noble families having absolute ragers of parties.
I get what you're saying about diseases/bloodshed/deceit but at the same time there's a boatload of things a human can do that would lead them into the worship of Slaanesh. It ain't all sex, drugs and rock'n'roll.

I think GW tends to avoid Slaanesh because it's the alignment most parents would find issues with. Khorne is God of fighting, Nurgle the God of sneezes, and Tzeentch the God of magic. What's Slaanesh? Oh, the God of excess and pleasure. Not in my Christian Minecraft server thank you very much.
The unifying design on the Slaanesh daemon units is "sexy lady with claws" and while they have been heavily toned down since the OG sculpts from yesteryear, they can still easily be identified as very sexually influenced designs. AoS does it better, especially with the latest releases, showing the multiple facets of excess that a Slaaneshi adherent can fall into. 40k is either look pretty or wear no clothes.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/06/08 23:38:57


 
   
Made in ca
Regular Dakkanaut




United States

 Gert wrote:
I would disagree and say that secret pleasure cults would be widespread in a society where life is full of misery, monotony, and general drudgery.
A bog-standard habber gets told about a secret club where they can feel joy and revel in forbidden delights and I would say for the most part they would go for it.
Of course the higher up the social ladder you climb the more decadent it gets. Priests committing sin against the God-Emperor by indulging in forbidden pleasures, the high-born scions of Noble families having absolute ragers of parties.
I get what you're saying about diseases/bloodshed/deceit but at the same time there's a boatload of things a human can do that would lead them into the worship of Slaanesh. It ain't all sex, drugs and rock'n'roll.
Oh, I totally agree that it isn't all that, I was just joking around. People have a preconceived notion of Slaanesh being what you just mentioned, but I would argue that the pursuit of perfection and self-absorption fits Slaanesh's MO more accurately. I can actually see now what you are getting at with regards to pleasure cults and such. Life is tough, war is hell, so the natural thing to do is to detract oneself from it all and create a new one where you don't necessarily have to worry about it. What I was trying to convey in my previous post was: Do these planets have access to resources that would create and sustain a pleasure cult? Most planets probably aren't your local Ultramar system, so I just didn't see it happening as much. Good point though!
   
Made in gb
Warning From Magnus? Not Listening!






If you are creative enough you can make drugs out of anything. Plus I'm sure most planets have industrial-grade adhesive
   
 
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