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Made in gb
Dakka Veteran




I really dislike the whole "roll a D6, and on a 3+ your priest character gets to actually do the one thing you brought it along for" dynamic that's currently working its way through 9e, and is especially prominent now that the Sisters of Battle use PRIESTS. It's really binary, and feels needlessly bad when you flop. I'm also not a huge fan of multiple priests becoming redundant because you can't use War Hymns twice; what, was the rest of the army getting bored hearing the same singalong? This is an attempt to soften those issues without breaking the whole PRIEST mechanic over the game's knee:

Replace the PRIEST text on all ADEPTUS MINISTORUM PRIEST units with:
In your Command phase, if this model is on the battlefield, it can recite one hymn it knows. The recited hymn takes effect until the start of your next Command phase, and if it has not already been recited by a friendly model this turn, roll one D6: on a 3+, that hymn is also inspiring.

Replace the various hymns with:
0 - War Hymn
Select one friendly ADEPTUS MINISTORUM CORE, CHARACTER or ENGINES OF REDEMPTION model within 6" of this PRIEST unit.
  • Add 1 to the Attacks characteristic of models in the selected unit.
  • If this hymn is inspiring, you can instead select one friendly ADEPTUS MINISTORUM CORE, CHARACTER, or ENGINES OF REDEMPTION unit within 6" of this PRIEST unit.

  • 1 - Refrain of Blazing Piety
  • The closest enemy unit within 12" of and visible to this PRIEST unit suffers 1 mortal wound. If that unit has the CHAOS keyword, it instead suffers D3 mortal wounds.
  • If this hymn is inspiring, you can instead select one enemy unit within 12" of and visible to this PRIEST unit. That unit suffers D3 mortal wounds, or 3 mortal wounds if it has the CHAOS keyword.

  • 2 - Chorus of Spiritual Fortitude
    Select one friendly ADEPTUS MINISTORUM CORE, CHARACTER, or ENGINE OF REDEMPTION unit within 6" of this PRIEST unit.
  • If that unit or its models are being affected by any psychic powers manifested by enemy models, the effects of those psychic powers on that unit and its models end.
  • If this hymn is inspiring, until the start of your next Command phase, that unit and the models it contains are not affected by any psychic power manifested by enemy units.

  • 3 - Psalm of Righteous Smiting
  • Add 1 to this PRIEST unit's Strength and Attacks characteristics.
  • Improve the Armour Penetration characteristic of melee weapons this PRIEST unit is equipped with by 1 (excluding Relics).
  • If this hymn is inspiring, at the end of the Fight phase, if this PRIEST unit is in Engagement Range of any enemy units, it can fight one additional time.

  • 4 - Litany of Enduring Faith
    Select one friendly ADEPTA SORORITAS CHARACTER unit within 6" of this PRIEST unit.
  • Improve the selected unit's invulnerable save by 1 (this unit cannot have an invulnerable save better than 4+).
  • If this hymn is inspiring, you can instead select one friendly ADEPTA SORORITAS CORE unit within 6" of this PRIEST unit.

  • 5 - Verse of Holy Piety
    Select one friendly ADEPTA SORORITAS CHARACTER unit within 6" of this PRIEST unit.
  • Select one sacred rite (pg. 93) that is not active for your army. That sacred rite is active for that unit in addition to any others that are active for your army.
  • If this hymn is inspiring, you can instead select one friendly ADEPTA SORORITAS CORE unit within 6" of this PRIEST unit.

  • 6 - Catechism of Repugnance
    Select one friendly ADEPTA SORORITAS CORE or CHARACTER unit within 6" of this PRIEST unit. Each time a model in that unit makes a ranged attack with a bolt weapon (pg. 121):
  • If that attack targets a unit within half range, the Armour Penetration characteristic of that attack is improved by 1.
  • If this hymn is inspiring, an unmodified hit roll of 6 automatically wounds the target.


  • Automatically Appended Next Post:
    So in other words:
  • If you fail your inspiring roll, you still get an effect, just a more limited or weaker one; for the SORORITAS PRIESTS, that usually means they have to blow the buff on themselves.
  • The non-inspiring effect is never something that would have been useful if you were inspiring, and is useless if you aren't (e.g. there's no range reduction on Refrain of Blazing Piety).
  • You can double-up on hymns, but they're automatically not inspiring past the first time each turn.
  • This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2021/06/18 09:12:39


     
       
    Made in us
    Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord





    In My Lab

    Can't speak for the balance, but conceptually I like it.

    Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne! 
       
    Made in gb
    Dakka Veteran




     JNAProductions wrote:
    Can't speak for the balance, but conceptually I like it.
    In terms of balance, it's obviously a straight buff (to a book that just came out), but I think it's probably fine just because of what the buff targets? It's more like it enables or encourages doing certain things, rather than improving their power. You can also isolate pretty clearly what the change allows you to do that you couldn't do before - apply a weaker version of the same hymn multiple times across your army, and guarantee a weaker version of the hymn even if you fail the roll.

    So if we look at those weaker hymns as "guaranteed, unlimited, non-stacking abilities"...
  • Chorus of Spiritual Fortitude is probably fine. The PRIEST that picked it can now reliably "cleanse" a psychic debuff once/round, but that's pretty specialised.
  • Psalm of Righteous Smiting is probably fine. The PRIEST that picked it now effectively just constantly has +1A/+1S/+1AP in melee, and that's neat, but it's also not what you usually take them for.
  • Litany of Enduring Faith is probably fine. The PRIEST that picked it can give one allied CHARACTER +1Inv each round; that's really not going to cause problems.
  • Verse of Holy Piety is probably fine, under the same logic as Litany of Enduring Faith. Giving one allied CHARACTER +1 to advance/charge rolls or a Deny The Witch bonus each round is nice, and flexible, but it's also fine as an unlimited command ability.[/list]

    So the ones that are concerning to me are:
  • War Hymns might cause problems as an unlimited hymn, because it can target Engines of Redemption. I didn't want it to be just CHARACTERS, because of how limp that felt, and taking along a cheap Preacher to herd your Penitent Engines felt right, but it might be wiser to restrict it regardless. Or perhaps I could make the uninspiring version target one model, and the inspiring version target a unit? Yeah, I'm going to make that change.
  • Refrain of Blazing Piety could problems just because it turns some PRIESTS into... well, gakky Thousand Sons/Grey Knights with none of the usual Psychic phase limiters, basically. I have no idea what the plan is for Psychic armies in 9e, honestly. I don't feel like it's too strong, but I could just totally replaced the "uninspired" version with a -D3/-3 Leadership penalty.
  • Catechism of Repugnance I'm wary of, just because it's the only buff that still works with units while uninspired; keeping both of its effects but having it work only on CHARACTERS felt utterly pointless (oh wow, a whole bolt pistol shot), so I kept the half-range AP buff and limited the more dramatic autowound effect. That's potentially a lot of automatic AP-1 to be slinging around, though.
  • This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/06/17 14:50:23


     
       
    Made in au
    Regular Dakkanaut




    Wouldn't the easiest way to balance it just make it an auto pass and then just jack up the priests cost like 40%.
       
    Made in gb
    Dakka Veteran




    Jarms48 wrote:
    Wouldn't the easiest way to balance it just make it an auto pass and then just jack up the priests cost like 40%.
    I'm avoiding that partly because it's a less centralised/elegant solution - I wanted to see how the mechanics for a "fail-forward" system might work - and partly because that feels a lot easier to break, even with increased costs. At that point I'd probably need to rewrite Refrain of Blazing Piety anyway, just because it's an un-Denyable, automatic, targetable Smite.

    Plus, the cost increase would make existing PRIESTS less viable as individual picks; if the Dogmata goes from 65 to 100 just because she can "stack" the same hymn with other priests - priests who you might not even have included in your army - then she becomes less attractive as an option to begin with, and so does going PRIEST-heavy to take advantage of the new spammability.

    Plus plus, this version means you're still encouraged to go for variety in your hymns, since each hymn can only be inspired (or attempt to be inspired) once per round. If they all just automatically succeeded, you'd have no incentive to do anything but grab the "best" one and spam it.
       
    Made in gb
    Dakka Veteran




    Just seeing if I can reasonably do the same for Space Marines...

    Amend the PRIEST text on all SPACE MARINE PRIEST units as follows:
    In your Command phase, if this model is on the battlefield, it can recite one litany it knows. The recited litany takes effect until the start of your next Command phase, and if it has not already been recited by a friendly model this turn, you can roll one D6: on a 3+, that litany is also inspiring.

    Replace the various litanies with:
    0 - Litany of Hate
    Select one friendly <CHAPTER> CORE or CHARACTER unit within 6" of this PRIEST to be uplifted by this hymn.
  • Each time a model in an uplifted unit makes a melee attack, you can re-roll the hit roll.
  • If this litany is inspiring, it instead becomes an Aura ability; while a friendly <CHAPTER> CORE or CHARACTER unit is within 6" of this PRIEST, it is uplifted by this hymn.

  • 1 - Litany of Faith
    Select one friendly <CHAPTER> CORE or CHARACTER unit within 6" of this PRIEST to be uplifted by this hymn.
  • Each time a model in an uplifted unit would lose a wound as the result of a mortal wound, roll one D6: on a 5+, that wound is not lost.
  • If this litany is inspiring, it instead becomes an Aura ability; while a friendly <CHAPTER> CORE or CHARACTER unit is within 6" of this PRIEST, it is uplifted by this hymn.

  • 2 - Catechism of Fire
    Select one friendly <CHAPTER> CHARACTER unit within 6" of this PRIEST unit.
  • Each time a model in the selected unit makes a ranged attack against the closest eligible target, add 1 to the wound roll.
  • If this litany is inspiring, you can instead select one friendly <CHAPTER> CORE unit within 6" of this PRIEST unit.

  • 3 - Exhortation of Rage
    Select one friendly <CHAPTER> CHARACTER unit within 6" of this PRIEST unit.
  • Each time a model in the selected unit makes a melee attack, add 1 to the wound roll.
  • If this litany is inspiring, you can instead select one friendly <CHAPTER> CORE unit within 6" of this PRIEST unit.

  • 4 - Mantra of Strength
  • Add 1 to this PRIEST's Attacks and Strength characteristics.
  • If this hymn is inspiring, add 1 to the Damage characteristics of melee weapons this PRIEST is equipped with.

  • 5 - Recitation of Focus
    Select one friendly <CHAPTER> CHARACTER unit within 6" of this PRIEST unit.
  • Each time a model in the selected unit makes a ranged attack, add 1 to the hit roll.
  • If this litany is inspiring, you can instead select one friendly <CHAPTER> CORE unit within 6" of this PRIEST unit.

  • 6 - Canticle of Hate
    Select one friendly <CHAPTER> CORE or CHARACTER unit within 6" of this PRIEST to be uplifted by this hymn.
  • Add 2 to charge rolls made for uplifted units. This is not cumulative with any other rule that adds to a unit’s charge roll.
  • Each time a model in an uplifted unit makes a pile in or consolidation move, it can move up to an additional 3". This is not cumulative with any other rule that increases the distance models can pile in or consolidate.
  • If this litany is inspiring, it instead becomes an Aura ability; while a friendly <CHAPTER> CORE or CHARACTER unit is within 6" of this PRIEST, it is uplifted by this hymn.


  • I'm not sure if it'd make more sense to introduce weaker versions of the Aura abilities that are still Auras, rather than swapping them from targeted effects to Auras, as I've done here. Litany of Hate could just be a re-roll 1s Aura that becomes a full re-rolls Aura, for example, while Litany of Faith could only ignore MW on a 6+ unless you're inspiring. Hard to decide. Wouldn't work for Black Templars, either, since Psalm can hardly scale down. Another option would be to cut the range, but I avoided that here and with Sororitas because it makes it possible to "do nothing" on a non-inspiring litany, just because you're out of range. Less of a problem for Auras than targeted litanies, though, since you can move after this. So here are three different options, then:

    0 - Litany of Hate (Select vs Aura)
    Select one friendly <CHAPTER> CORE or CHARACTER unit within 6" of this PRIEST to be uplifted by this hymn.
  • Each time a model in an uplifted unit makes a melee attack, you can re-roll the hit roll.
  • If this litany is inspiring, it instead becomes an Aura ability; while a friendly <CHAPTER> CORE or CHARACTER unit is within 6" of this PRIEST, it is uplifted by this hymn.

  • 0 - Litany of Hate (Weaker Effect)
  • While a friendly <CHAPTER> CORE or CHARACTER unit is within 6" of this priest, each time a model in that unit makes a melee attack, you can re-roll a hit roll of 1.[/list[[list]If this litany is inspiring, you can instead re-roll any hit roll each time a model in that unit makes a melee attack.

  • 0 - Litany of Hate (Lower Range)
  • While a friendly <CHAPTER> CORE or CHARACTER unit is within 3" of this priest, each time a model in that unit makes a melee attack, you can re-roll the hit roll.[/list[[list]If this litany is inspiring, the range of this aura becomes 6".

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