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Made in ca
Regular Dakkanaut




United States

Are these raids worth it for the Drukari? In some cases, they incur heavy losses, which leads me to my next few questions:

Do the Drukari that live through the raid collect their fallen fellow kin (either whole or snap off a digit), regenerate them and bring them back into the world of the living once they get back to Commorragh? Or do they not care, taking the dead's share of spoils?

What are the costs for being regenerated by a Haemonulus?

What is the general time-crunch before the dead's souls/spirits are devoured by Slaanesh? One would assume that once they died, their souls/spirits would immediately drift off into the Warp.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Psionara wrote:
Are these raids worth it for the Drukari? In some cases, they incur heavy losses, which leads me to my next few questions:

"Worth it" is sort of a complicated concept. Given the sheer number of slaves that have been imported into Commorragh over the years and how advanced drukhari tech is, they can probably maintain a high enough slave population to sustain their drukhari population without raiding. However, slaves are currency in Commorragh, and an excess of slaves (above the necessary minimum to keep your people "fed") means that you can do all the extra fancy nightmarish stuff to them. Basically, your slave supply after a certain point switches from keeping you fed to being ingredients for high-quality cuisine. Plus, if you don't go out and scoop up all the slaves (read: money) in a given chunk of space, your rivals might do it. So by not raiding regularly, you're kind of inviting your rival to take free resources that he might use to attack you.

Plus, half the reason for raiding is the entertainment factor. Comfortably wealthy kabals might launch raids for the same reason rich people throw parties.


Do the Drukari that live through the raid collect their fallen fellow kin (either whole or snap off a digit), regenerate them and bring them back into the world of the living once they get back to Commorragh? Or do they not care, taking the dead's share of spoils?

So it's a little bit inconsistent, but I always head canon it that your blade/circle (your squad) will go out of their way to cut off your finger or whatever if they can do so without significant risk to themselves. The idea being that while none of you are exactly loyal, there's an understanding that you're more powerful together. Even if 19 dudes are plotting to kill the sybarite, it's generally worth watching each others' backs in case you yourself get gunned down during the next raid.

I'm not sure the concept of a "share of the spoils" works quite like that. The exact process for dispensing "wages" probably varies from faction to faction, but you'd have to be kind of ballsy to try and horde the slaves in your line of sight rather than making sure they were handed over to your archon first. The dead guy might miss out on a brief murder party or an afternoon of hunting stragglers through the streets of a defeated city, but it's not like kabalites are laying personal claim to whatever souls or shiny things happen to cross their paths.


What are the costs for being regenerated by a Haemonulus?

I'm sure it varies. If your kabal/cult has its own in-house haemonculi or a strong, long-standing health insurance policy with a coven, it probably costs a bit less than if you're a low-Commoraghn archon negotiating an extortionist's price for your own personal life insurance policy. Given that drukhari seem very opposed to death and don't tend to employ the safest of tactics when raiding, I get the impression that a given kabalite's odds of being rez'd are pretty good. Good enough for him to be willing to zoom around on an open-topped death trap wearing thin armor and intentionally picking fights with enemies for the sake of his boss's entertainment anyway. If a kabal has negotiated that they 10,000 ressurections a year and the kabal takes big losses, I imagine the archon will hand out ressurections to her favorite servants first as a way of encouraging people to stay on her good side.


What is the general time-crunch before the dead's souls/spirits are devoured by Slaanesh? One would assume that once they died, their souls/spirits would immediately drift off into the Warp.

This part is a bit contradictory. I swear I remember listening to interviews where some drukhari author or another (Phil Kelly?) talked about how he liked the idea of dark eldar attacking at nightfall but having to retreat by sunrise to get their dudes ressurected in time. But I'm not sure that ever became canon. Some BL stories and short stories make it seem like craftworlders get swallowed up by Slaanesh basically instantly; they describe the dying as hearing the laughter of daemons as they die and such. But that seems a bit off with the drukhari ressurection thing.

So my two bits of headcanon that may or may not be supported by canon fluff:
A.) It seems like you can leave a piece of your soul (sometimes along with a piece of your body) with your haemonculus so that you instantly start ressurecting when you die. (It still takes a while, but the process begins right away.) This makes me think that you can sort of anchor your soul to the materium somehow. Sort of like a Horcrux/Phylactery. So many a wealthy enough kabal just has a bunch of blood samples or toenails or whatever in their haemonculus's lab.
B.) The plot of the Path of the Dark Eldar trilogy revolves around a plot that involves rez'ing a drukhari from the distant past. So maybe the ressurection process is less about keeping Slaanesh from eating you and more like reaching your hand down their throat to pull a soul back up. The longer you've been dead, the further the metaphorical hand has to reach in to grab you.

So maybe there's technically not a time limit on ressurection; just an increased chance of failure or dire consequences the longer you wait.

   
Made in gb
Utilizing Careful Highlighting




U.k

I like your version b there. Fits with the trilogy. As for how much the dark eldar care about casualties, I think that depends on who they are. Many if not most will be entirely expendable. Just fodder. An archon would happily sacrifice anyone to get ahead or get away.

I think the financial cost and spiritual cost or reviving is high, not open to most basic foot troops. A generous archon might if you are a valued member maybe. Dark eldar culture is entirely selfish, so if it’s not in your bosses interests to rescue you you are f@cked.
   
Made in fr
Stalwart Tribune





From what I remember of the Dark Eldar trilogy, the haemonculi can theoretically bring back anyone at anytime but normally they won't do it if the person has been dead for more than a day or so. Apparently when you try to bring back someone who's been in the warp for a long time you're more likely to bring a daemon than anything.

I think the raiders do grab their fallen before leaving. It's probably some sort of unofficial code of conduct: if you want your buddies to bring you back when you die, you have to do the same for them.
   
Made in gb
[DCM]
Ambitious Archon





Port Carmine

Great answers.

Haemonculi also claim a sliver of the soul, as payment for the resurrection....it's how they were going to be paid for 'helping out' with The Golden Throne.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/18 11:11:36


Kabal of the Mon-keigh's Paw
Coven of the Screaming Statues
Cult of Veiled Malice

"Death is only a concern if you're both weak enough to be killed and dumb enough not to arrange your own resurrection." PM713
 
   
Made in au
Anti-Armour Swiss Guard






Newcastle, OZ

Also "Dead" on the table doesn't necessarily mean "dead for realz".

It can just be "out of action" or "non-combatant"/unconscious.

So "heavy losses" aren't necessarily proper "losses".

I'm OVER 50 (and so far over everyone's BS, too).
Old enough to know better, young enough to not give a ****.

That is not dead which can eternal lie ...

... and yet, with strange aeons, even death may die.
 
   
Made in gb
[DCM]
Ambitious Archon





Port Carmine

 Psionara wrote:
What is the general time-crunch before the dead's souls/spirits are devoured by Slaanesh? One would assume that once they died, their souls/spirits would immediately drift off into the Warp.


Aeldari souls retain consciousness after the death of their body, and are able to move about within The Immaterium, and potentailly avoid being consumed for a period. Also, since time moves very differently, it is conceivable that the soul could be resurrected after hundreds of years, but only experience the passage of a short time.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/06/18 14:16:26


Kabal of the Mon-keigh's Paw
Coven of the Screaming Statues
Cult of Veiled Malice

"Death is only a concern if you're both weak enough to be killed and dumb enough not to arrange your own resurrection." PM713
 
   
Made in gb
Member of a Lodge? I Can't Say






 Psionara wrote:
Are these raids worth it for the Drukari?

Well, yeah. It's fun. Duh.
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut






In addition to the above, some older Archons are jaded to the point that they can only be fully rejuvenated by the violence of a real-space raid.

So they have to lead their warriors to war, otherwise they will gradually wither and fade.
   
Made in au
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Denny wrote:
In addition to the above, some older Archons are jaded to the point that they can only be fully rejuvenated by the violence of a real-space raid.

So they have to lead their warriors to war, otherwise they will gradually wither and fade.


The escalating consumption needs of older Archons has always posed a problem: It means they don't really have true immortality if eventually their sheer need for pain and soul consumption reaches a level that is impossible to sustain on any practical level.

If 1 Archon reaches a point where they are consuming the entire intake of slaves, why would any Kabal stay with them instead of rising up together in revolt? For that matter, won't it eventually reach a point where there just isn't enough time in the day to consume enough?

In the old DE Codex, admittedly the raids were of much smaller scale. Raiders over a period of 25 Imperial years in the Jericho Sector captured like 19500 captives. According to the claims of the Kabal lord in that old DE Codex, he feeds on 10,000 a day. So by the old scale of raiding, it would have taken 25 years of raiding to feed the lord for less than 2 days. With that kind of imbalance, it was a wonder the Kabals hadn't collapsed into anarchy or revolt.

To summarize, the Archons' increasing feeding requirements would eventually hit the ceiling of practicality of:

1) Securing enough slaves
2) The amount of time available in each "day" in which to feed
3) The increasing risk of a permanent death in battle through increasing slave raids
4) Internal revolt from discontented DE seeing 1 individual consume ridiculous amounts of the intake of slaves that the rest of the Kabal cannot then use.
   
Made in gb
[DCM]
Ambitious Archon





Port Carmine

I think the problem Archons face is less to do with chronological age, and more to do with boredom; as Denny said, they become jaded.

I recall a short story in one of the BL anthologies about a male Archon who becomes infatuated with a female Archon, and the lengths he goes to to woo her. He is described as being reinvigorated and rejuvinated by the chase and challenge. After all, Vect is really just a very successful Archon, and he has thrived for a ridiculous length of time by keeping himself amused.

Kabal of the Mon-keigh's Paw
Coven of the Screaming Statues
Cult of Veiled Malice

"Death is only a concern if you're both weak enough to be killed and dumb enough not to arrange your own resurrection." PM713
 
   
Made in au
Longtime Dakkanaut




The Dark Eldar elevating the term "employer provided life insurance" to a whole new level.
   
Made in fr
Stalwart Tribune





It's probably part of the "natural" cycle that when a very old drukhari becomes seriously jaded they start to be too daring and careless, then eventually end up getting murdered and replaced by a younger, sharper one.
   
Made in tw
Been Around the Block





I think in a considerable amount of time they're just raiding for fun, I mean, the majority of dark eldars were the ones who didn't give an actual f*@k about the fall of their species (birth of slaanesh) and likely considered it as an "interesting event". Now when we take a closer look, we'd find them being nothing other than a bunch of cowards, sadists, nihilists, opportunists, and materialists.
Like, just look at that goddamn Vect, he didn't care about the Ynnari being the only "somewhat" hope for the eldars, but instead he sent FREAKING DRAZHAR to hunt down Roboute's girl because of his "muh insecurity, Yvraine embarassed me by letting daemons invade my pointy torture house that is Commorragh" mindset.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/06/19 18:06:03


 
   
Made in gb
[DCM]
Ambitious Archon





Port Carmine

 Cognitive wrote:
I think a considerable amount of time they're just raiding for fun, I mean, the majority of dark eldars were the ones who didn't give an actual f*@k about the fall of their species (birth of slaanesh) and likely considered it as an "interesting event". Now when we take a closer look, we'd find them being nothing other than a bunch of cowards, sadists, nihilists, opportunists, and materialists.


What a load of horsegak.

The Drukhari are traumatised by the fall of their civilisation, and are trying to hold onto and maintain it's remnants, as corrupt and decadent as it is. They are the victims of an appalling version of inherited sin, and their behaviour is a result of that.

 Cognitive wrote:
Like, just look at that goddamn Vect, he didn't care about the Ynnari being the only "somewhat" hope for the eldars, but instead he sent FREAKING DRAZHAR to hunt down Roboute's girl because of his "muh insecurity, Yvraine embarassed me by letting daemons invade my pointy torture house that is Commorragh" mindset.


You mean the death cult promising to save the Aeldari as long as they commit mass suicide? Yeah love the Kool-Aid.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/06/19 19:26:20


Kabal of the Mon-keigh's Paw
Coven of the Screaming Statues
Cult of Veiled Malice

"Death is only a concern if you're both weak enough to be killed and dumb enough not to arrange your own resurrection." PM713
 
   
Made in tw
Been Around the Block





 harlokin wrote:
 Cognitive wrote:
I think a considerable amount of time they're just raiding for fun, I mean, the majority of dark eldars were the ones who didn't give an actual f*@k about the fall of their species (birth of slaanesh) and likely considered it as an "interesting event". Now when we take a closer look, we'd find them being nothing other than a bunch of cowards, sadists, nihilists, opportunists, and materialists.


What a load of horsegak.

The Drukhari are traumatised by the fall of their civilisation, and are trying to hold onto and maintain it's remnants, as corrupt and decadent as it is. They are the victims of an appalling version of inherited sin, and their behaviour is a result of that.

 Cognitive wrote:
Like, just look at that goddamn Vect, he didn't care about the Ynnari being the only "somewhat" hope for the eldars, but instead he sent FREAKING DRAZHAR to hunt down Roboute's girl because of his "muh insecurity, Yvraine embarassed me by letting daemons invade my pointy torture house that is Commorragh" mindset.


You mean the death cult promising to save the Aeldari as long as they commit mass suicide? Yeah love the Kool-Aid.

Lmao it was clearly stated the DEs were the architects for the fall of Eldar and their depravity and malevolence only harden the evidence on that claim. For the bs argument you posted for the Ynnari, lmao agin, no, they aren’t planning to massacre the whole race or something, just seer souls added to the circuit. Frankly what did Vect do to actually make a progress to save his own damnable species? Of course, other than torturing people to keep Slaanesh away, lol.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/19 20:06:29


 
   
Made in gb
Member of a Lodge? I Can't Say






Spoiler:
 Cognitive wrote:
I think in a considerable amount of time they're just raiding for fun, I mean, the majority of dark eldars were the ones who didn't give an actual f*@k about the fall of their species (birth of slaanesh) and likely considered it as an "interesting event". Now when we take a closer look, we'd find them being nothing other than a bunch of cowards, sadists, nihilists, opportunists, and materialists.
Like, just look at that goddamn Vect, he didn't care about the Ynnari being the only "somewhat" hope for the eldars, but instead he sent FREAKING DRAZHAR to hunt down Roboute's girl because of his "muh insecurity, Yvraine embarassed me by letting daemons invade my pointy torture house that is Commorragh" mindset.

Fun is a bonus to the raids the Drukhari engage in. They need to raid to capture beings for their souls to stave off their own demise.
Yes, collectively the Druhkari are sadist opportunistic cowards. What's the point here?
The Ynnari represented a significant threat to Vects power, if the Druhkari didn't need to raid to steal souls and could instead just pledge themselves to Ynnead and live forever, Vect has no power. Also yes Yvraine broke Khaines Gate and let thousands of Daemons into Commoragh.
   
Made in gb
[DCM]
Ambitious Archon





Port Carmine

 Cognitive wrote:
 harlokin wrote:
 Cognitive wrote:
I think a considerable amount of time they're just raiding for fun, I mean, the majority of dark eldars were the ones who didn't give an actual f*@k about the fall of their species (birth of slaanesh) and likely considered it as an "interesting event". Now when we take a closer look, we'd find them being nothing other than a bunch of cowards, sadists, nihilists, opportunists, and materialists.


What a load of horsegak.

The Drukhari are traumatised by the fall of their civilisation, and are trying to hold onto and maintain it's remnants, as corrupt and decadent as it is. They are the victims of an appalling version of inherited sin, and their behaviour is a result of that.

 Cognitive wrote:
Like, just look at that goddamn Vect, he didn't care about the Ynnari being the only "somewhat" hope for the eldars, but instead he sent FREAKING DRAZHAR to hunt down Roboute's girl because of his "muh insecurity, Yvraine embarassed me by letting daemons invade my pointy torture house that is Commorragh" mindset.


You mean the death cult promising to save the Aeldari as long as they commit mass suicide? Yeah love the Kool-Aid.

Lmao it was clearly stated the DEs were the architects for the fall of Eldar and their depravity and malevolence only harden the evidence on that claim. For the bs argument you posted for the Ynnari, lmao agin, no, they aren’t planning to massacre the whole race or something, just seer souls added to the circuit. Frankly what did Vect do to actually make a progress to save his own damnable species? Of course, other than torturing people to keep Slaanesh away, lol.


Nonsense. There were no Dark Eldar/Drukhari at The Fall. They, aside from the odd individual like Vect and Rakharth, are descendants many times removed from the Aeldari who caused the fall. And yes, the Ynnari are a death cult.

Read something, and stop talking out of your arse.

Kabal of the Mon-keigh's Paw
Coven of the Screaming Statues
Cult of Veiled Malice

"Death is only a concern if you're both weak enough to be killed and dumb enough not to arrange your own resurrection." PM713
 
   
Made in tw
Been Around the Block





 harlokin wrote:
 Cognitive wrote:
 harlokin wrote:
 Cognitive wrote:
I think a considerable amount of time they're just raiding for fun, I mean, the majority of dark eldars were the ones who didn't give an actual f*@k about the fall of their species (birth of slaanesh) and likely considered it as an "interesting event". Now when we take a closer look, we'd find them being nothing other than a bunch of cowards, sadists, nihilists, opportunists, and materialists.


What a load of horsegak.

The Drukhari are traumatised by the fall of their civilisation, and are trying to hold onto and maintain it's remnants, as corrupt and decadent as it is. They are the victims of an appalling version of inherited sin, and their behaviour is a result of that.

 Cognitive wrote:
Like, just look at that goddamn Vect, he didn't care about the Ynnari being the only "somewhat" hope for the eldars, but instead he sent FREAKING DRAZHAR to hunt down Roboute's girl because of his "muh insecurity, Yvraine embarassed me by letting daemons invade my pointy torture house that is Commorragh" mindset.


You mean the death cult promising to save the Aeldari as long as they commit mass suicide? Yeah love the Kool-Aid.

Lmao it was clearly stated the DEs were the architects for the fall of Eldar and their depravity and malevolence only harden the evidence on that claim. For the bs argument you posted for the Ynnari, lmao agin, no, they aren’t planning to massacre the whole race or something, just seer souls added to the circuit. Frankly what did Vect do to actually make a progress to save his own damnable species? Of course, other than torturing people to keep Slaanesh away, lol.


Nonsense. There were no Dark Eldar/Drukhari at The Fall. They, aside from the odd individual like Vect and Rakharth, are descendants many times removed from the Aeldari who caused the fall. And yes, the Ynnari are a death cult.

Read something, and stop talking out of your arse.

Perhaps you’d actually get yourself informed before spitting bs like that.
It was stated the worst of the worst from the Eldar empire already settled in the webway city, and they by all means could be called the dark Eldar save for they didn’t have to torture people to fill their thirst.
A further evidence I’d use to embarrass you would be the case of Jain Zar and Asurmen: previously an orphan, she was saved by Asurmen from the hands of the drukhari, and judging from the time span that was only several earth-years after the fall, they by all means were those who architected the fall or served as their minions. Another thing that really got me confused is how exactly would you thought pulling the “tHEY aRE dESCENDANTS mANY tIMES rEMOVED fROM tHE aELDARI wHO cAUSED tHE fALL” argument is gonna do you any good here? They, by all means, are living the lives of their ancestors, they kill people for gaks and giggles, and the effort you put to portray them as victims only further exhibits your cluelessness.
Lmao, yes obviously Ynnari is a death cult, but what other choice do the Eldar have now?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/20 03:15:45


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Iracundus wrote:

The escalating consumption needs of older Archons has always posed a problem: It means they don't really have true immortality if eventually their sheer need for pain and soul consumption reaches a level that is impossible to sustain on any practical level.

Correct. It adds to the tragedy. That said...
A.) It seems to take a really long time to build up a soul thirst that strong. Given the cutthroat nature of drukhari politics, you won't have a ton of such individuals in existence at a given time.
B.) Archons are the billionaires of their society. If they eat their way through an entire planet's worth of slaves in a single year, it's a good thing that their operation is so big they launch a thousand raids every year.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
 harlokin wrote:
I think the problem Archons face is less to do with chronological age, and more to do with boredom; as Denny said, they become jaded.

I recall a short story in one of the BL anthologies about a male Archon who becomes infatuated with a female Archon, and the lengths he goes to to woo her. He is described as being reinvigorated and rejuvinated by the chase and challenge. After all, Vect is really just a very successful Archon, and he has thrived for a ridiculous length of time by keeping himself amused.


Mistress Baeda's Gift. Fun story. The author writes excellent battle reports on another forum I used to frequent (and now only check in on occassionally.)




Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Cognitive wrote:

Perhaps you’d actually get yourself informed before spitting bs like that.
It was stated the worst of the worst from the Eldar empire already settled in the webway city, and they by all means could be called the dark Eldar save for they didn’t have to torture people to fill their thirst.
A further evidence I’d use to embarrass you would be the case of Jain Zar and Asurmen: previously an orphan, she was saved by Asurmen from the hands of the drukhari, and judging from the time span that was only several earth-years after the fall, they by all means were those who architected the fall or served as their minions. Another thing that really got me confused is how exactly would you thought pulling the “tHEY aRE dESCENDANTS mANY tIMES rEMOVED fROM tHE aELDARI wHO cAUSED tHE fALL” argument is gonna do you any good here? They, by all means, are living the lives of their ancestors, they kill people for gaks and giggles, and the effort you put to portray them as victims only further exhibits your cluelessness.
Lmao, yes obviously Ynnari is a death cult, but what other choice do the Eldar have now?


Some authors' take on the drukhari seems to be that they're haunted by the knowledge of their nature and basically using that famous aeldari hubris to not have to admit/confront it. They spend each day feeling the fangs of a leech god sucking the life out of them and indulge their hedonism and sadism with the knowledge that such acts are going towards feeding the ugly parasite that they can't get rid of and that will turn them into psychic excrement on the day that their haughtiness is no longer enough to stave off death.

The aeldari empire went to the club and did the drugs. The drukhari go to the same club and do the same drugs, but they do so with the haunting memory of what the aeldari empire's overdosed corpse looked like. The party hard saying, "I'm too strong to go like that," but evidence says otherwise, and deep down they know it.

And while I personally love the ynnari, the in-universe perception of their detractors is basically that they're reckless idiots who will eventually get you killed too, if only by convincing a bunch of the guys that are supposed to be protecting you to follow them to some crazy-dangerous daemon world on a quest. Yvraine's debut as the daughter of Ynnead filled Commorragh with daemons, nearly destroyed Biel-Tan, nearly killed Yriel, and lured away portions of craftworld populations that left those craftworlds less populated and more vulnerable than (possibly) ever. And then most of the people that follow them end up dead because Yvraine goes through dudes like she's playing an RTS. Losing troops isn't ideal, but the recruitment drives keep pumping out more.

So it's not really unreasonable for authority figures within aeldari societies to be rather unfond of the ynnari.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/06/20 04:48:32


 
   
 
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