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Made in us
Squishy Oil Squig



Ak

We’ve probably all seen the new kill team compendium and rules videos by now so what teams do you think are looking good and which aren’t? I know this is still particularly speculation because we don’t have the actual books in hand yet, but I feel we have enough information to make an educated guess.
   
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Shas'ui with Bonding Knife






Wouldn't this thread be more appropriate in the Specialist Games sub? I mean, even if 40K uses the same miniatures, the rules and stats are very different..

I think Thousand Sons & Harlies will be powerful. Custodes are pretty crazy too but their modest model count is a big disadvantage in terms of board control, especially in objective heavy missions. Same also goes for Hvy Interecessors.
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut





Talons stood out to me; Custodes and SoS working together is a good thing for Kill Team, but it also foreshadows that GW will stick with Talons when the new dex drops... And popular rumours suggest that may be the December Imperium dex.

Marines stand out because of the differences in their approach- they can only bring one fireteam to each game/ mission they play, but they have a real diversity of fireteams to choose from and the roster system + their Fireteam sizes allow them to include four full teams on the roster- something which no other faction in the game can do.
   
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Never Forget Isstvan!






Yeah alot of players complain marine KT's seem boring, but at the end of the day they are marines and it fits them thematically and seems to work pretty good too.


You get 4 different loadouts you can put on your roster to counter 4 different enemy types, then you can take gear on top of that. It seems simple and effective.


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PenitentJake wrote:
Talons stood out to me; Custodes and SoS working together is a good thing for Kill Team, but it also foreshadows that GW will stick with Talons when the new dex drops... And popular rumours suggest that may be the December Imperium dex.

Yeah I was thinking the same thing, it's a good sign they'll continue with SoS and Custodes being in the same Codex, it would be amazing if any of the Sisters became troop choices.

I also think they'll make a very fun Kill Team, so I'll be assembling my SoS and painting them as my next project.
   
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Ak

They may not be top tier but a tyranid team with 6 warriors, 3 warriors and 5 genestealers or even 10 genestealers sound like fun to me. (I may finally paint and use my space Hulk minis)
   
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Longtime Dakkanaut





 tauist wrote:
Wouldn't this thread be more appropriate in the Specialist Games sub? I mean, even if 40K uses the same miniatures, the rules and stats are very different..



Tricky one, as both Kill Team and Apocalypse only exist to offload small(50-200 points) and large scale games( 2500+ points ) from 40K, which is about 300-2500 points in size. They either streamline or add depth where needed. Both games not only use the same model range but also share the same factions where possible( Knights and titan legions being the exception, for Kill Team ).

The other specialist games might have a bit of overlap with 40K and AOS but they are more "self contained". For example, Space Hulk - at best - focuses on just terminators and genestealers inside a giant derelict space craft. Sometimes it might go as far as including Genecults and subfaction terminators such as Deathwing and Wolfguards. Adeptus Titanicus, likewise is all about Titans and Knights in the Horus Heresy era. Blood Bowl totally removes itself from AoS' faction tensions and is an all out sports game - far removed from AoS as one could possibly get.

Do you see what I mean? Technically you're right, but it still feels odd.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/16 20:00:20


Casual gaming, mostly solo-coop these days.

 
   
Made in us
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SamusDrake wrote:
 tauist wrote:
Wouldn't this thread be more appropriate in the Specialist Games sub? I mean, even if 40K uses the same miniatures, the rules and stats are very different..



Tricky one, as both Kill Team and Apocalypse only exist to offload small(50-200 points) and large scale games( 2500+ points ) from 40K, which is about 300-2500 points in size. They either streamline or add depth where needed. Both games not only use the same model range but also share the same factions where possible( Knights and titan legions being the exception, for Kill Team ).

The other specialist games might have a bit of overlap with 40K and AOS but they are more "self contained". For example, Space Hulk - at best - focuses on just terminators and genestealers inside a giant derelict space craft. Sometimes it might go as far as including Genecults and subfaction terminators such as Deathwing and Wolfguards. Adeptus Titanicus, likewise is all about Titans and Knights in the Horus Heresy era. Blood Bowl totally removes itself from AoS' faction tensions and is an all out sports game - far removed from AoS as one could possibly get.

Do you see what I mean? Technically you're right, but it still feels odd.



Sorry, but I don't understand what point you are trying to make. I only commented about the thread not being in the appropriate sub
   
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 tauist wrote:

Sorry, but I don't understand what point you are trying to make. I only commented about the thread not being in the appropriate sub



No worries.

I was explaining why Kill Team and Warcry threads feel odd in the specialist section of the forum. They feel much more closer to home in the 40K and AoS sections.



This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/17 08:14:10


Casual gaming, mostly solo-coop these days.

 
   
Made in gb
Ship's Officer





Bristol (UK)

Some stuff seems strange, I'm not entirely sure how 5 Intercessors are balanced against 4 Custodes for example.
   
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Longtime Dakkanaut



London

I think the Space Marine one does. Initially for the blandness, but then very quickly for the obvious houserule of making it into following.

Primaris - 5 chosen from the list below
Intercessors
Assault Intercessors
Incursors
Infiltrators
Reivers

First born chose from
6 Tacticals
3 Tacticals 5 scouts
10 Scouts
   
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 kirotheavenger wrote:
Some stuff seems strange, I'm not entirely sure how 5 Intercessors are balanced against 4 Custodes for example.


What about 4 Heavy Interecessors vs 4 Custodes? HI's only have 2 APL... So basically custodes will have the same amt of models but twice the APL?!

Anyways, playing the missions with only 4 models is apparently very difficult, due to not having enough bodies for objective grabbing/control. I will personally be steering away from 4 & 5 model teams, 6 model teams minimum for me thx

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/08/17 11:55:36


 
   
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Veteran Knight Baron in a Crusader





APL does, to some extent, have diminishing returns in that you can't duplicate most actions. If the HI player plays it right they can reduce the impact of the additional APL by not allowing the Custodes to charge and fight without using more movement, making them unable to shoot (also, HI only have 2? Gravis Armor takes away 1APL?)
   
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It's given me the extra push to finish painting my Scouts. I also kitbashed a few leftover First Born models, including some ol 2nd and 3rd edition classics.
   
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Rihgu wrote:
APL does, to some extent, have diminishing returns in that you can't duplicate most actions. If the HI player plays it right they can reduce the impact of the additional APL by not allowing the Custodes to charge and fight without using more movement, making them unable to shoot (also, HI only have 2? Gravis Armor takes away 1APL?)


In theory, that sounds right, but Custodes have that pesky ploy which allows them to shoot & fight twice for 1CP.. Peerless Warrior IIRC

I think Hvy Interecessors wont have much chance against 4 Custodes..
   
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Don't have the rulebook yet; do the Archetypes factor in somehow? If so, Chaos Warriors seem useful at least.

If they're just descriptions, then...well...don't see what CSM offer that other teams can't.
   
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I thought you got 3 HI per fireteam.

Also, you would never run 2 HI fireteams vs. custodes if you had any tactical accumen.

One is good, for the AP, but you still need models that can move up and capture stuff.

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 Eihnlazer wrote:
I thought you got 3 HI per fireteam.

Also, you would never run 2 HI fireteams vs. custodes if you had any tactical accumen.

One is good, for the AP, but you still need models that can move up and capture stuff.


3 Heavy Intercessors (including up to 1 gunner), 1 Sergeant. Max 1 fireteam per Kill Team.
   
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Ship's Officer





Bristol (UK)

Glass Half Dead tried Custodes vs Heavy Intercessors, he thinks Heavy Intercessors are completely outmatched.
He takes a low view of all Space Marine Fireteams except Scouts.

It's a shame, you'd hope and expect that all Fireteams were reasonably well balanced against one another, especially since WarCom specifically mentioned how great and balanced KT21 was in the announcement.
   
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 kirotheavenger wrote:
Glass Half Dead tried Custodes vs Heavy Intercessors, he thinks Heavy Intercessors are completely outmatched.
He takes a low view of all Space Marine Fireteams except Scouts.

It's a shame, you'd hope and expect that all Fireteams were reasonably well balanced against one another, especially since WarCom specifically mentioned how great and balanced KT21 was in the announcement.


This confirms my initial thoughts. The low model count just makes all non-scout marine teams very, very hard to play. Higher APL doesn't help enough when it comes to capturing objectives.

I suspect there's going to be a Spec Ops Marine faction coming sooner than later which will attempt to correct things somewhat. It would be very un-GW of GW if marines ended up being bottom tier in KT2 forever.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Arcanis161 wrote:
Don't have the rulebook yet; do the Archetypes factor in somehow? If so, Chaos Warriors seem useful at least.

If they're just descriptions, then...well...don't see what CSM offer that other teams can't.


Archetypes dictate which Tac Ops a team can draw from, IIUC

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/08/18 13:31:07


 
   
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Longtime Dakkanaut



London

I would have no problmes with a marine player having a fireteam of 3 tacs and 5 scouts.
   
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Ak

If I was a betting man, I’d say say space marines will get plenty of chapter specific kill teams. At least in the mean time scouts will get some play time.
   
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 tauist wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Arcanis161 wrote:
Don't have the rulebook yet; do the Archetypes factor in somehow? If so, Chaos Warriors seem useful at least.

If they're just descriptions, then...well...don't see what CSM offer that other teams can't.


Archetypes dictate which Tac Ops a team can draw from, IIUC


Hmm, would that be more useful than the bodies that stuff like IG, Tau, Orks, and Nids can bring?
   
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HI seem unusually bad, tbh, their APL of 2 and Heavy on so many of their weapons just makes them slow and useless. I'd take Deathwatch against Custodes, and Intercessors get the beefed-up sergeant with the nasty melee weapon and pistol, bolt rifles look pretty damn solid with P1 and theyve got the aux krak grenade launcher guy as well to play with.

Admittedly though, I do think 'elite team into slightly more elite team' does seem like one of the tougher matchups out there because of how melee and objective securing functions, and Intercessors and Reivers and the like don't get the special weapon guys that would likely make the fight a little easier by being able to threaten major damage to a custode that pokes its head out. Tacticals dont seem amazing but I'd rather be using them over say Reivers if i knew I was up against Custodes.

"I can't believe all these tryhard WAACs out there just care about winning all the time when it's supposed to be a game for fun!!!!!!! Also here's my 27 page essay on why marines are OP and Orkz should get a bunch of OP rules so I can win more games

-the_scotsman"

-ERJAK 
   
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 the_scotsman wrote:
HI seem unusually bad, tbh, their APL of 2 and Heavy on so many of their weapons just makes them slow and useless. I'd take Deathwatch against Custodes, and Intercessors get the beefed-up sergeant with the nasty melee weapon and pistol, bolt rifles look pretty damn solid with P1 and theyve got the aux krak grenade launcher guy as well to play with.

Admittedly though, I do think 'elite team into slightly more elite team' does seem like one of the tougher matchups out there because of how melee and objective securing functions, and Intercessors and Reivers and the like don't get the special weapon guys that would likely make the fight a little easier by being able to threaten major damage to a custode that pokes its head out. Tacticals dont seem amazing but I'd rather be using them over say Reivers if i knew I was up against Custodes.
I imagine that they feared that giving them 3 APL so they could Bolter Discipline would be far too much if they could move, shoot, and shoot.
   
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Wicked Wych With a Whip





Have someone tried Dark Eldar? As you can imagine, I'm a huge DE fan

The lethal 5+ on splinter weapons seem awesome, particularly on the Splinter Cannon. Also, the ability to force parries with the Wyches on a 4+ feels quite good I imagine.

I'm going to make them work, but if someone has insight I appreciate it.

The Bloody Sails
 
   
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Yes I imagine Lethal 5+ spam will be one of the power lists of this edition. DE gonna be stronk for sure, but they also look pretty bland.

I'd like to try Nids with 3 Warriors all on Boneswords, also Lethal 5+, and 5 Stealers with their free Dash and unbreakable Conceal.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/08/29 12:04:53


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Sticksville, Texas

Huh. So the Scout Kill Teams perform relatively well due to their numbers? While not a massive fan of the new Kill Team so far, if I was to play it would either be Scouts or Scions for me.
   
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Longtime Dakkanaut




Scout team seems to be popular, but I have not play them myself.

Craftworld team has potential in positioning and movement, but I not sure if they will hold up. They really need there update.

Demons if you go with multi gods are actually rather good. There equipment may be a bit over costed for value, as myself and lots of other players I have talk to have found the 1 cost equipment to be far more usful.
Going mono god sadly takes away so much fun :(
   
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Specifically the Skitarii kill team.
First of all they dont have bionic rules, no abilities whatsoever. And then they didnt even exchange those rules for statlines.
What we end up with are scions, but worse in every, single, regard.
Less wounds, Less WS, Less and worse Special weapons, less movement ( rangers getting the heavy treatment with whats essentially a boltgun), no free coms guy giving APs, Scion leader has better equipment and an ability. Orders are also not only better, but also dont have downsides. Which is all in all just weird, so much tech and cyber transhumanism.
   
 
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