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Hello,

I know Custodes are getting a new book in like a month, but I'm looking for advice on my 1k and 2k lists. This is not for a competitive context, I'm simply trying to "perfect" what I've got planned because there are a couple things that I'd like to change but I'm unsure how to get it done, or if it's even possible.

Excuse the lack of Battlescribe, I'm trying to condense the list.

1k (Solar Watch):

Shield-Captain on Bike - Indomitable Constitution, Eagle's Eye, Radiant Mantle
3x3 Custodian Guardians - Storm Shields & Guardian Swords
Achillus Dreadnought - Eternal Penitent, x2 Twin Adrathic Destructors
3 Venatari Custodians - Kinetic Destroyer & Tarsus Buckler

2k, add (Solar Watch):

Shield Captain in Allarus Armor - Castellan Axe
+2 Custodian Guardians p/unit (3x5 instead of 3x3)
Galatus Dreadnought - Eternal Penitent
Vexilus Praetor - Ten Thousand Heroes, Sally Forth, Vexilla Magnifica
Telemon Dreadnought - Arachnus Storm Cannon, Telemon Caestus

What I would really like to do is fit 2 more Venatari Custodians, so I can have a unit of 5 to match the 5-man units of Guardians. I'm just unsure how to fit that into the list.

The only reason the Shield-Captain in Allarus Armor is in the list is in order to turn the Patrol into a Battalion. And the only reason I'm doing that is in order to add the Vexilus Praetor to the force for the -1 to hit aura and for the deep strike stratagem because I plan to deep strike the Achillus and a unit of 5 guardians + the shield-captain in allarus armor.

I am wondering if my 15 Guardians would be better off in 5 units of 3 instead of 3 units of 5. Is it even worth deep striking any of them for an additional 2 CP? I've heard that I need to deep strike the Achillus, so that's one of the main roles of the Vexilus Praetor. Alternatively, I could keep 1 unit of Guardians at 5-man and then have 2 units of 3 and a unit of 4, so I can deep strike the 5-man and then have 3 individual units instead of only 2 on the board.

I just don't know how to cut out 110 points in order to add the 2 Venatari without messing up the list. If I remove the Shield-Captain, then I have to remove the Vexilus Praetor (or 1 of the dreadnoughts). If I remove the Vexilus Praetor, I'm worried the Achillus won't see combat.

I could drop the Shield-Captain, Praetor, and Achillus, add the 2 Venatari, and then I'd be left with 305 points.

Thoughts?

So here’s the thing. I do like the list and having a lot of infantry is great, but imo you overdo it on the guardians. Your list lacks a bit of punch. Solar Watch helps you to push on the board, but it’s also important to balance out your firepower. As of now Venatari 5man squad is pretty much a must, it hits hard. The value of your guard lies in the fact that they can be optimally defensive in 3 man squads around objectives. I would try to add in some flex options:

1 could be 1-2 units of Prosecutor sisters of silence currently they offer you a great and dirt cheap protection against dominant psyker lists like T sons or G Knights. They can snipe out psyker characters too and they are surprisingly fast. This will also allow you to put in the extra Venatarii. Plus they are about to be added to the codex, which might allow them to benefit from some additional rules. I would drop the Arachnus on the Telemon. The ranged options are “okay” at best, but making him more expensive is not the way to go. Also he needs eternal penitent for sure and while you’re at it, give him his second fist. Boxer telemons are currently the greatest. You always have a reason to either stay on an objective and say “come at me” or be proactive and push on. doing this will add 2 attacks in melee and gives you a second flamer weapon on him. It’s so good. Some Saggittarum instead of shield guard to keep back objectives and snipe down the field, while the rest pushes on. You field a bunch of dreadnoughts. They would benefit greatly from Trajanns aura and he would net you a free stratagem in the game. Maybe some Vertus Praetors in order to put up the pressure, although i understand if you leave them out in a Solar Watch list in order to push more with a guard focused list, but Sally Forth on some Vertus Praetors, hurricane bolters.. oof. You could keep the original 3x3 and drop the final 2 and play with your list with the options i just listed. Let me know what you’ll try! Although right now as you said. The new book comes in a month. Best is to wait. Edit: i would footslog everything. Custodes power currently is to tank most the hits, you could even drop the vexillus and terminator if you’re bold enough it will open up a lot of points and allows you to add in some more offensive options in terms of firepower/ re-rolls if you would take Trajann. If the battlefield doesn’t have a lot obscuring terrain, you can always 1CP the Achillus for deepstrike if you aren’t confident to keep him safe.

Okay, thanks for the information! It sounds like the 1k list is fine, and that's all I've got at the moment. I'll sit on that and see what happens when the new books drops before I start working on the rest.

I appreciate the ideas, those are helpful.

You are definitely thinking in the right direction for expansion. In your 1K list, your dreadnought will be a prime target to be taken out by your opponent. You could experiment with swapping it out for a Galatus in the future for a 2+ save and 4+ invul, although you'll struggle against heavy armour a slight bit more since it hits on S7, while that sweet Achillus is a true heavy armour killer. On 2K having more dreadnoughts is nice, because it draws away some firepower from the Achillus.

In regards to your custodes guard. I've totally overseen this. But if you want to experiment with the Solar Watch Warlord Trait: Sally Forth, perhaps it's nice to have 1-2 Guardian Spears in your units, because they are rapid fire weapons. Which essentially turns them into assault weapons when you advance around your warlord, the same goes for hurricane bolters on Vertus Praetors, Aquillon Terminators with storm bolters, The Achillus. Anything with rapid fire weapons would benefit.

Regarding your Captain on Bike:
I see you want to make him survivable. Consider looking at the combination of Superior Creation, Auric Aquilas and Indomitable. It's very effective.

Everything is prone to change in a month though, so keep that in mind.

My 1k is intended to use either the Galatus or the Achillus, and I put the Achillus in the list because 1) it's more expensive with my loadout, so it ensures that the Galatus can fit as a replacement if needed, and 2) because the Achillus is the dreadnought I want, whereas the Galatus is the dreadnought I was recommended. So if the Achillus doesn't perform well enough, I'll resort to trying out the Galatus.

In 2k, my plan was to deep strike the Achillus, so the only dreadnought options for my opponent's shooting would be the Galatus and the Telemon, both with 4++.

I liked the combination of Sally Forth and Vexilla Magnifica on the Praetor for +1 movement and -1 to be hit, but it was a little disappointing that I lacked rapid fire weapons. Especially since the Achillus would be deep striking, not advancing with the army, and the jetbike shield-captain would likely not be within the aura for its hurricane bolters.

If I remove the extra Custodes Guardians from the 2k list, I can fit the extra Venatari and still have points to spare. I wonder if that's the best plan. And I do like the idea of taking 1 guardian with a storm shield and 2 with the spears. I like offense more and I think the unit would still be mostly as tough since it'd benefit from the shield until that guy fell.

Thank you for the advice about the jetbike shield-captian's upgrades. I overlooked the Auric Aquilas because he originally was not on a bike. I'm not sold on Superior Creation being better than Radiant Mantle, but I'll take your word for it since you're saying that's the tougher combo. But with 9 wounds and a 33.3% chance to ignore each wound, he's effectively got 3 additional wounds. That's better than -1 to be hit?

I might play around with the 2k list, since the spears are melee telemon are all cheaper, and since I'll have spare points, I'll look at what I can figure out.

Iggy88 wrote:

In 2k, my plan was to deep strike the Achillus, so the only dreadnought options for my opponent's shooting would be the Galatus and the Telemon, both with 4++.

Thank you for the advice about the jetbike shield-captian's upgrades. I overlooked the Auric Aquilas because he originally was not on a bike. I'm not sold on Superior Creation being better than Radiant Mantle, but I'll take your word for it since you're saying that's the tougher combo. But with 9 wounds and a 33.3% chance to ignore each wound, he's effectively got 3 additional wounds. That's better than -1 to be hit?

No Problem, all your ideas could definitely work and Yeah I think getting more Venatari might be the good call. We don't know yet what they'll do to the double shooting stratagem though. I assume it will be toned down slightly.
In case of the Galatus, yes a 2+ save with 4+ invul, but the shield also has the additional ability of debuffing your opponent in melee with -1 to hit.

In case of the captain, the radiant mantle is definitely not a bad choice, but more matchup dependent. Turning a 2+ to hit in a 3+ to hit, will not be as great as turning a 5+ to hit into a 6+ in case of Orks for example. The Superior Creation will always be there for any damage that you take from any source or army. Also the fact they have to punch through a 3+ invul first and than having their damage possibly be denied makes the captain just not a great target. Superior Creation also works against mortal wounds. While you already have Aegis of the emperor on a 6+ against psychics. This will now upgrade to a 5+ for him on any mortal wounds you suffer! Including other sources, which are not psychics.
Consider a Salvo Launcher on the captain, for a second reliable source of anti heavy. This will make him a big threat that is hard to deal with. Even in case of solar watch using Sally Forth, i would prefer Salvo Launcher on the captain. Probably not on other Vertus, but on him... yes.