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Since GW clearly doesn't know what to do with orks, let's give them some ideas. Keep in mind that it should look somewhat similar to what we have seen for other armies, so no full datasheet rewrites, sweeping point changes or similar.
Also keep in mind that buggy and plane spam was a problem for the game, so no bringing back that list.

So, which are the up to 8 bullet points you would use to balance orks?

My suggestion.

1) Boomdakka Snazzwagons; Kustom Boosta-blastas; Megatrakk Scrapjets; Rukkatrukk Squigbuggies; Shokkjump Dragstas: Change number of models from 1-3 to 1.

2) Change mob rule to: When this unit takes a morale test, pick a friendly <CLAN> unit above half strength within 6":
If that unit is a MOB unit add +1 to this unit's leadership for that roll for every two models in that unit.
If that unit is a NOBZ unit add +1 to to this unit's leadership for that roll for every model in that unit instead.

3) Add the following to the Detachment Abilities of an Ork Detachment:
DakkaDakkaDakka: Each time a model from your army makes a ranged attack, a roll of 5 or 6 always hits, if the target is within half the weapon’s range.

4) Change the first paragraph of specialist mobs as follows: Each time you upgrade one of these units, that unit gains the SPECIALIST MOB keyword, and you must replace that unit’s <CLAN> keyword with the appropriate keyword as described under that specialism. That unit then gains the abilities listed under that specialism, but can never benefit from any Clan Kultur.

5) Trukk, Battlewagon, Gunwagon, Bonebreaka, Kill Rig, Hunta Rig, Gorkanaut, Morkanaut, Stompa: All these transports have a transport capacity of <Number> SPECIALIST LADZ INFANTRY or <CLAN> INFANTRY models. Each MEGA ARMOUR or JUMP PACK model takes up the space of 2 models, GHAZGHKULL THRAKA takes up the space of 12 models (GOFF transports only).

6) Change Speedwaaagh! to:
Stage 1: Da Big Race
ORKS models that advance in your Movement phase, until the end of your Shooting phase, count as having made a Normal Move instead.. Each time an ORKS VEHICLE or ORKS BIKER model or a model embarked on an ORK TRANSPORT from your army shoots with a Dakka or Assault weapon, make 1 additional attack with that weapon.
Each time a model in an ORKS VEHICLE or ORKS BIKER unit or a unit embarked on an ORK TRANSPORT from your army makes a ranged attack, improve the Armour Penetration characteristic of that attack by 1.
Stage 2: Give ’Em Sum Dakka!
Each time a model in an ORKS VEHICLE or ORKS BIKER unit or a unit embarked on an ORK TRANSPORT from your army makes a ranged attack, improve the Armour Penetration characteristic of that attack by 1.

7) Morkanaut, Lootas, Burnas(Spanner models only), Mek, Stompa, Big'ead Boss Bunka: Change the Ballistic Skill characteristic of these datasheets to 4+.

8) Big Mek in Mega Armour, Big Mek with Kustom Force Field, Morkanaut: Change Kustom force field to read: (Aura) While a friendly ORKS unit is within 6" of the bearer, it has a 5+ invulnerable save. While this model is embarked on a transport, that transport gains: (Aura) While a friendly ORKS unit is within 3" of the bearer, it has a 6+ invulnerable save.

Great stuff as always Jidmah!

In terms of general rules, just bite the bullet and change Dakka weapons to allow you to also advance and shoot, but if you do so, you suffer a -1 to hit penalty for those attacks. Evil Sunz trait changes so that they ignore this penalty alongside the one for assault weapons. Having it as a garbage salvo/rapid fire rule is pretty pointless.

Assuming that we can change strats like they did for Custodes, I think that's the only area you haven't touched much on.

I would suggest changing Breaking 'Eads CP cost to 0, so it would actually be used in the cases where it actually applies.

Snagga Grapple is changed to apply to all Beast Snagga units rather than just Snagga Boyz, goes off on a 3+ instead.

More Dakka goes down to 1CP and also makes all ranged attacks as counting as being in half range for the purposes of the Dakka Dakka Dakka rule you introduced for them.

Grot Shields go down to 1CP

Careen changes so that you can choose to pay for the CP and auto-explode after a vehicle loses its last wound AND after you move it up to 6" if it is not in engagement range of enemy units.

Hit Em Harder can be used on any NOBZ units rather than just Meganobz, costs 1CP to use on a unit of 5, 2CP for 6+.

Tough as Squig Hide should be 1CP for a squad of 10 or less Snagga boyz and 3 Squighog Boyz, 2CP for 11+ Snagga Boyz and 4+ Squighog boyz.

Lumbering Strides should be all Walkerz units rather than just our super-heavy walkers, as is its a waste of ink.

Forcefield Boosta, with the changes you made to KFF, I think it basically no longer has a purpose as its currently written, so change it so it makes it give a 4++ save with 9", and take away the clause that the KFF cannot be used afterwards. It remains once per use a game. Now it's a 2CP ability that's actually worth using.

Keep in mind I'm not saying ALL of these would be included, but I would pick 3 of the ones I've listed as potential changes they could do to strats.

Forcefield boosta as stated above should be once a game. (But yes don’t destroy the kff)

I think the squigbuggy point hike can pretty much be removed now that indirect fire is fixed..

Change zodgrod wortsnaga so that the unit of superrunts become some form of 6 to hit auto wounds instead of +1 to hit roll.

I also think boys should get a buff as they are way to expensive currently. 6 to hit in melee auto wounds if over 10+ models in the unit would work.

Fix nob bikers to get big red button, +1 wd, cloud of smoke, and core. Like regular bikers and the nob on that unit has.

Painboss should get beastsnagga only
limitation removed. Let him chase after cavalry and bikes….

Nob w Waagh banner- effect should change from reroll 1 aura to the stompa effigy aura- units within 6in can reroll failed morale test. He also needs a powerklaw wpn added to his profile because he literally has a powerfist on his model.

Change the warboss aura to just <clan> orks… like the waaagh banner has… this literally was only a benefit to walkerz anyway.

Lootas- change deffguns to ap-2… I mean they will still be bad..

I think Morkanaut and gorkanaut shouldn’t be superheavies anymore… they are effectively gone from any play because of that single change.

Plus everything above.

I disagree with any of the grunts getting a change to BS4+. However Flash Gitz go in the right direction: Nobz and bigger should have BS4+.

 Grimskul wrote:
Great stuff as always Jidmah!

Assuming that we can change strats like they did for Custodes, I think that's the only area you haven't touched much on.

Yeah, the point was that you can't change everything - if you change those stratagems you will get to change nothing else.

Personally, I'd rather have trash stratagems than non-functional base rules.

Outside of that, I agree with pretty much all of your changes except the KFF one - using it would be a no-brainer for any game, there should be some sort of downside. Either keep the burn out mechanism or make it 3CP. An army-wide 4++ on a vehicle list is just that good.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

gungo wrote:
Forcefield boosta as stated above should be once a game. (But yes don’t destroy the kff)

I think the squigbuggy point hike can pretty much be removed now that indirect fire is fixed..

Change zodgrod wortsnaga so that the unit of superrunts become some form of 6 to hit auto wounds instead of +1 to hit roll.

I also think boys should get a buff as they are way to expensive currently. 6 to hit in melee auto wounds if over 10+ models in the unit would work.

Fix nob bikers to get big red button, +1 wd, cloud of smoke, and core. Like regular bikers and the nob on that unit has.

Painboss should get beastsnagga only
limitation removed. Let him chase after cavalry and bikes….

Nob w Waagh banner- effect should change from reroll 1 aura to the stompa effigy aura- units within 6in can reroll failed morale test. He also needs a powerklaw wpn added to his profile because he literally has a powerfist on his model.

Change the warboss aura to just <clan> orks… like the waaagh banner has… this literally was only a benefit to walkerz anyway.

Lootas- change deffguns to ap-2… I mean they will still be bad..

I think Morkanaut and gorkanaut shouldn’t be superheavies anymore… they are effectively gone from any play because of that single change.

Plus everything above.

Good stuff, AP-2 lootas is probably a better solution than BS4+.

Just two things - the nob hand is just a cybork hand, not AP. I also think that auto-wounding is a rather bad mechanic to have on rank and file troops due to the "kills titans" effect.

 Jidmah wrote:

 Grimskul wrote:
Great stuff as always Jidmah!

Assuming that we can change strats like they did for Custodes, I think that's the only area you haven't touched much on.

Yeah, the point was that you can't change everything - if you change those stratagems you will get to change nothing else.

Personally, I'd rather have trash stratagems than non-functional base rules.

Outside of that, I agree with pretty much all of your changes except the KFF one - using it would be a no-brainer for any game, there should be some sort of downside. Either keep the burn out mechanism or make it 3CP. An army-wide 4++ on a vehicle list is just that good.

Fair point, problem is you covered pretty much most of what I would have done and we aren't allowed to change the actual datasheets, so I was kinda stumped outside the Dakka weapon change . You're also not wrong on my take for the KFF strat, probably too easy for players to use it T1 or T2 and it'll basically force KFF's even moreso than what it would be now with your current revision to KFF's. I'd probably make it 3CP since I really dislike the idea of destroying wargear when you've paid points for it. We've slowly moved further away from one shot weapons so I'd prefer if it wasn't continued in the form of strats.

EviscerationPlague wrote:
I disagree with any of the grunts getting a change to BS4+. However Flash Gitz go in the right direction: Nobz and bigger should have BS4+.

The idea is to have all meks go to BS4+, lootas are the only ones I would consider to be "grunts". After all, flash gits do get their better BS from extra tech, not from skill and pretty much every mek model is modeled with bionic eyes or similar stuff.

 Jidmah wrote:

EviscerationPlague wrote:
I disagree with any of the grunts getting a change to BS4+. However Flash Gitz go in the right direction: Nobz and bigger should have BS4+.

The idea is to have all meks go to BS4+, lootas are the only ones I would consider to be "grunts". After all, flash gits do get their better BS from extra tech, not from skill and pretty much every mek model is modeled with bionic eyes or similar stuff.

I would argue that tankbustas would warrant the BS increase as well if they didnt have the +1 to hit against vehicles built in

Since squigbuggies are the most expensive buggies and indirect fire has been nerfed into oblivion I'd add a special rule to their squig launcher weapons: each wound roll of 6 causes D3 mortal wounds.

Mob Rule: when a <Mob> unit takes a morale test it can use its number of models instead of its Ld value.

One of my biggest issues with orks weapons is that we don't have many ranged weapons with S9 or higher. So I'd change two weapons that are supposed to be very powerful, and they aren't, but which also can't be spammed, so buffing them considerably woulnd't break anything:

SAG: Heavy 2D6 S10 AP-5 DamageD3+3. Blast. (Optional: 6s to wound cause a mortal wound in addition to any other damage). Of course BS4+ for the big mek.

Killkannon: S10 AP-4 Damage3 (or D6)

Also a big mek aura: add 2 to the Ld value of any <Mek Gunz> or <Walkerz> unit that is within 6'' of this model. Fluffy babysitter to mek gunz and kanz basically.

Why not put that aura on the runtherd and make it all gretchin? It would give him a purpose.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Grimskul wrote:
I would argue that tankbustas would warrant the BS increase as well if they didnt have the +1 to hit against vehicles built in

Honestly, considering how much their fluff aligns with beastsnaggas (hunt big things, use their parts as armor), I would just give make them beastsnaggas and give them their rule.

 Jidmah wrote:
Why not put that aura on the runtherd and make it all gretchin? It would give him a purpose.

I thought about that and while it would make sense for gretchins and mek gunz (they used to have a babysitter runtherd option once) I think it would look pretty dumb on killa kanz. I though walkers and mek gunz are the iconic units for big meks based armies, they're big meks' and meks' work actually, and both kanz and mek gunz only need a moral buff ruleswise.

The big mek is building that stuff though, it's not his job to keep the runts in line.

It's also worth noting that the current codex doesn't support mek armies at all.

Honestly there is so so many issues throughout the ork codex at this point we just need an entirely new codex… nearly every unit in the ork codex needs to be adjusted in some way be it points, datasheet rules, strategem cost, or just generic rules such as morale…

I don’t expect any of that to happen.
At this point I hope we get another army of renown.. maybe for walkerz since that keyword is completely unused.

Yeah, dread mob would be such a low hanging fruit for them. They could literally steal half the stuff from the old IA book, take some of the deleted stratagems from 8th and slap some sort of army-wide rule for durability and melee capability on it and be done with it.

Thinking about it, it took my like an hour to type up the OP, it's mind blowing that GW isn't even willing to get one or two motivated people to work on the ork codex for a week or so.
Heck, I would sacrifice my vacation days and do it for free for them if I could.

Unfortunately, we neither have Space, nor Mahreen in our army name, so we're relegated to being at the bottom of the priority pile in terms of meaningful updates/changes. Also, knowing GW and the stories I've heard of them overworking people and being generally understaffed on the rules team, I'm not surprised they can't even do basic maintenance for keeping factions like ours relevant. Half the time I feel like our codex release just feels obligatory versus having any actual coherent thought put into the army design.

Choppas: units hit may not save on a roll lesser than a 4+
Shootas: ap-1 base, on every “shoota” weapon.
Killsaws: wielding two gives two attacks
Power klaw: no -1 to hit
Grots: buy a whole squad of 10 for 25 points.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And rokkits stop being heavy.

 Jidmah wrote:
Yeah, dread mob would be such a low hanging fruit for them. They could literally steal half the stuff from the old IA book, take some of the deleted stratagems from 8th and slap some sort of army-wide rule for durability and melee capability on it and be done with it.

Thinking about it, it took my like an hour to type up the OP, it's mind blowing that GW isn't even willing to get one or two motivated people to work on the ork codex for a week or so.
Heck, I would sacrifice my vacation days and do it for free for them if I could.

But they'd have to playtest it since this is the most playtested edition EVER

I mean dreadmob is easy just use speedmob as go-by.
All units get dreadmob key word
Access to dreadmob warlord trait, relic and Strats.
Heavy support detachment +3cp if warlord
Walkers from your army gain “cool name” ability
If battleforged walkerz gain objective secured

“Cool name” ability
No kultur
+1 to atk on charge, etc, etc
It’s a vehicles so they Can adv and shoot as normal, but if they advance they gets -1 to hit.
-1 to wound…

Allowed units all walkers, Mek guns, meks/bigmeks, wagons, lootas/burnas, wazbom blastjet, Mekboy workshop

Warlord trait-Big Mek only, once game
Dread Waaaaagh!!!-
Turn 1-
walkers can charge even if they adv this turn
And
+1 to hit range and melee (also turn 2)

Relic- mega force field 5++

Kustom jobs- 10pts each
Mega charga- walkerz only- 3d6 to charge

Da dreaded klawsaw- dread klaw (saw)or dread rippa klaw (saw)- x2 str, ap-4, 3D, mortals on 6 to hit.

Armored plates-vehicle only- 2+ armor, profile doesn’t degrade…wagon/walkerz only

Strategems-
Crashing through part 2- 4+ chance to do d3 mortals per model- walkerz only

Plus 2 others Strats..

Some suggestions I’ve thought of:

Mob rule- Ork units gain +1 leadership if the squad = 11-20 models +2 if 21+ models

Nobz gain an equipment option for Boss poles- models that have a boss pole in their unit can re roll attrition tests.

Ghazkhull Thrakka should allow re roll 1s to hit and wound for Ork units within 6inches in addition to his other rules


Dakka weapons- these weapons allow a model to still advance and shoot but with no penalty to hit.

I’d add a rule called something like “tide of muscle”- Ork infantry, bikers and cavalry gain +1 strength on the turn they charge or make a heroic intervention.

Then Goffs trait becomes 6s to hit generates another hit and on the turn they charge get +1 to wound.

Morkanaut should be BS 4+

I would change Specialist Ladz rule to the one Jidmah wrote above in OP.

I’d make snazz guns dakka weapons 3/4

Grot units benefit from mob rule and count as obsec if they have a ring heard in the unit. The grots also act as a body guard rule for the runt heard as well using the new “bodyguard” rule.

Just some thoughts

 Some_Call_Me_Tim wrote:
Choppas: units hit may not save on a roll lesser than a 4+

Good old 3rd edition style. It's AP0 against anything that has 4+ save or worse though, which is what you typically want to swing choppas to, not sure if it would be an improvement. Unless you meant that choppas keep AP-1 on top of that rule.

 Jidmah wrote:
Yeah, dread mob would be such a low hanging fruit for them. They could literally steal half the stuff from the old IA book, take some of the deleted stratagems from 8th and slap some sort of army-wide rule for durability and melee capability on it and be done with it.

On that note here is what I would do to bring back a dread mob playstyle.

1) Deff Dreads gain the CORE keyword.



2) Add Deff Dreads to the 'Lumbering Strides' stratagem.



3) Relic - Dakkahorn's Bionics Eyes.[i]After falling in combat with the Deathwatch the bionic eyes of Dakkahorn have become a prized trophy for Big Mek's looking to make the shiny gubbinz on their Dread Mobs more accurate, allowing them to assist their targeting systems.[u] BIG MEK unit only. Ork WALKERZ units within 3" of this model gain +1 to hit in the shooting phase.



4) Scrag ’Em: While this unit contains 3 or more models, add 1 to the Attack and Leadership characteristics of models in this unit.



5) Get rid of the Kustom Jobs clause that restricts them to only units with one model and add a clause saying that the points cost is per model in the unit.



6) Kustom Forcefield - (Aura) While a friendly ORKS unit is within 6" of the bearer, it has a 5+ invulnerable save against ranged attacks. The range of this aura ability can never be increased, unless specifically stated otherwise.



7) FORCE FIELD BOOSTA - Use this Stratagem at the start of your opponent’s Shooting phase. Select one model in your army that is equipped with a kustom force field. Until the end of the turn, replace that kustom force field’s ability with the following:

‘(Aura) While a friendly ORKS unit is within 9" of the bearer, models in that unit have a 5+ invulnerable save against ranged attacks.’

At the end of this turn, the kustom force field overloads, reducing it's aura to 3" until the end of the next battle round and then returning to 6" for the remainder of the game. You can only use this Stratagem once per battle.

 Blackie wrote:

 Some_Call_Me_Tim wrote:
Choppas: units hit may not save on a roll lesser than a 4+

Good old 3rd edition style. It's AP0 against anything that has 4+ save or worse though, which is what you typically want to swing choppas to, not sure if it would be an improvement. Unless you meant that choppas keep AP-1 on top of that rule.

Could just word it as “units subtract one from their save roll” and have it be non-ap ap. Weird from a rules perspective but it would be on brand for new gw.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
If I were to fix killa kans, just have them split on deploy, and drop the price like the tiniest bit. Give meganobz an unmodifiable 4+ aftersave (a la old old hammer). I’d also possibly like to see power klawz be d3+1 damage, then have killsaws be the lots of extra attack weapon.

@Jid

1) I like it, I would also address how craptastic the kustom jobs are. Some of them do need a rewrite and/or points adjustment even if you could give it to all 3 and let them split.

2) perfect.

3) I would change this to just be ALWAYS hits on 5s or 6s There isn't much point to this rule for the vast majority of our units. Shootas/dakka gunz would only benefit at 9', Big shootas, KMKs and Rokkitz at 12. Its just too short ranged to really impact the game that much. And with how horrific our shooting is, I think always hitting on 5s isn't that game breaking. Yeah, its a hard nerf to a few units that rely on -1 to hit, but that tactic for them was designed to be used against armies like Custodes and Marines who were hitting on 2s and 3s, not on Orkz hitting on 5s.

4) Disagree on this one, I think they SHOULD benefit from kultur. A unit of boyz already sucks pretty badly. Making them Trukkboyz but losing their kulture is more of a sidegrade than a true upgrade. Letting a SINGLE unit of boyz per detachment become trukk boyz would be thematic and not at all broken, especially in a game where our choppas just lost AP-1 against about 50% of the meta.

5) minor buff, don't think it would change much but sure. I would reduce Ghaz's model size to 10 though so he can have makari and an expendable mek in the trukk as well.

6) I hate the speedwaaagh...its completely stupid to put it bluntly. Nothing about it screams "SPEED!" what it does scream is "DAKKA!" but as far as the rules themselves, i would add in "ork vehicle, biker, CAVALRY or MONSTER. letting squig riders and the lot benefit from this would make some of their shooting actually worth spending time on.

7) Absolutely agree! The few games I played with my Morkanaut left me with a bad taste in my mouth, always hitting on 6s is just ridiculous for that beast. I would add in Tankbustas and give them a special rule that allows them to fire heavy weapons after moving without losing 4+ to hit.

8) Why this even stopped being a thing is beyond me. I would also change the stratagem to make it explode but provide a 4++ for 1 turn but lose the KFF for the rest of the game and make it a once per game strat. Suddenly Orkz have a chance to survive going 2nd like other armies currently do

 Some_Call_Me_Tim wrote:
Choppas: units hit may not save on a roll lesser than a 4+
Shootas: ap-1 base, on every “shoota” weapon.

Shootas should 24 inch range and ST 5 as well.

 warhead01 wrote:

 Some_Call_Me_Tim wrote:
Choppas: units hit may not save on a roll lesser than a 4+
Shootas: ap-1 base, on every “shoota” weapon.

Shootas should 24 inch range and ST 5 as well.

Shootas are legit in the worst position they've been in for years and the sad part is that this would only make them worth considering rather than competitive bizarrely enough. I'd say to compensate, big shootas should at least be Dakka 6/4 and AP-1 base, while Supa Shootas go to AP-2 so they can actually get through armour like they're supposed to.

 Grimskul wrote:

 warhead01 wrote:

 Some_Call_Me_Tim wrote:
Choppas: units hit may not save on a roll lesser than a 4+
Shootas: ap-1 base, on every “shoota” weapon.

Shootas should 24 inch range and ST 5 as well.

Shootas are legit in the worst position they've been in for years and the sad part is that this would only make them worth considering rather than competitive bizarrely enough. I'd say to compensate, big shootas should at least be Dakka 6/4 and AP-1 base, while Supa Shootas go to AP-2 so they can actually get through armour like they're supposed to.

I had really hoped Orks would have gotten a better BS across the board as well. But the ignoring -1 worth of AP for those particular Imperial factions is just an irritation.
I've not played against it yet. It has had me thinking about my old tricks. Against TDA I'd lob a lot of frag missiles or equivalent in and watched them roll a bunch of saves, I'm fishing for 0ne's as that's what my intent. Plasma cannons were good as well, we all remember that but frags were a bit better for the dual weapons profile as I remember it. It did used to kill terminators sometimes several. I'm just not seeing an equivalent right now for Orks. I'd have to go back to KMB's.
If however, our shootas would hit and wound with enough volume we'd be in a similar position to my ol' frag missiles play. which would at least be more meaningful than current Ork shootas and who knows what else. I really hate the feeling that we're once again being stuffed into the npc category intentionally. Choppas looked amazing but not so much anymore. very sad.