KingGarland wrote:Don't have time to elaborate right now but look at page 64 of the knights codex under knight lances.
So Knight/Traitoris lances are just a special form of the Super-heavy detachment (
BRB page 250) or Super-heavy auxiliary detachments ( also
BRB page 250) which enable you to have a CHARACTER and also gives back some
CP, depending on how many units you have within it, and which are defined in their respective codices, but they are still SUPER HEAVY DETACHMENTS / SUPER HEAVY AUXILIARY DETACHMENTS as listed in the
BRB, as can be read from the first bullet point of the KNIGHT LANCES rules (page 64):
"If this Detachment is a Super-heavy detachment, or if you are playing a Combat patrol battle /impossible in Nephilim as it doesn't exist/ and this Detachment is a Super-heavy auxiliary detachment..."
Also here is a note in the
BRB on page 250, in the explanation of the Super-heavy detacment which states the following:
"If you only spend 3 Command points then you cannot include any TITANIC units in this Detachment"
So let's look at the second bullet point of the KNIGHT LANCES rule on page 64 of the Imperial knights codex:
"If this Detachment contains between 1 and 2 QUESTORIS-CLASS models...this Detachment's Command Benefits are changed to: '+3 Command points if your WARLORD is part of this Detachment' "
So, in a 1000 point Incurion game, according to Nephilim rules, you get 3
CP. As you CAN'T ADD A TITANIC UNIT UNLESS YOU SPEND 6
CP (as is written in the
BRB on page 250) how do you find the extra
CP, pray tell?
Automatically Appended Next Post: p5freak wrote:ThulsaDoom wrote:
The only partial workaround is that you use the single super heavy detachment Nephilim rule to take one titanic, but then It can't be the warlord - which means no traits and/or relics for it, which kinda defeats the purpose.
That doesnt work.
If a player’s army includes one or more Super-heavy Auxiliary Detachments, they can change the Command Benefits of one of them to: ‘+3 Command points if the unit in this Detachment is not your WARLORD, but it is from the same Faction as your WARLORD’s Detachment, and that Faction is not CHAOS, IMPERIUM, AELDARI or TYRANIDS’.
Lets say you play
CSM BL. How do you give the chaos knight the
BL faction keyword ? It doesnt have <Legion>. Without
BL keyword its not from the faction as your warlord, and you dont get +3
CP.
But I'm not playing
CSM, playing clean Chaos Knights - so for example I select three War dogs for a Super-heavy detachment, all of them in a slot of their own, and one additional Super-heavy auxiliary detachment which has a single Abhorrent class. As the War dog detachment contains three Lords of war, it is a legitimate detachment, that according to the Traitoris lances rules refunds me the 3CP invested in them because one of the War dogs is the Warlord. On the side, the Abhorrent class uses the Nephilim rule for auxiliary Super-heavy detachments, and while it costs 3
CP, it also grants 3
CP as the Abhorrent is not the warlord - for a total of 0
CP.
The keyword that all units have is Chaos knights so it is also legit.
Summary:
Start with 3
CP, as is the rule for Nephilim incursion games.
3 War dogs in super-heavy detachment cost 3
CP, and refund 3
CP if the warlord is one of them.
1 Abhorrent in a super heavy auxiliary detachment costs 3
CP and also refunds 3
CP if it isn't the warlord.
Trying to get the Abhorrent to be the warlord:
Start with 3
CP, as is the rule for Nephilim incursion games.
To add an Abhorrent I need to spend 6
CP (as is written in the
BRB page 250). As I only have 3
CP it is impossible.
The key point I am questioning here is that the TRAITORIS/KNIGHT LANCES follow the rule listed in the Super-heavy detachments as listed in the
BRB page 250, as they are themselves such detachments.
If they do not follow that rule: " If you only spend 3 Command points then you cannot include any TITANIC units in this detachment" please let me know where it specifically says so.
Or, if the argument is that they AREN'T ACTUALLY SUPER-HEAVY DETACHMENTS, where can I find the composition graph for them (you know, the boxes for all the detachments that can be found in the
BRB)?