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Made in us
Battlefield Tourist




MN (Currently in WY)

Greetings Designers,

This is a hot topic, and the law is not settled yet. I am by no means an expert on the subject and am not a lawyer.

I did find this article useful:

https://deep-image.ai/blog/copyright-of-images-generated-by-artificial-intelligence-example-of-midjourney-dall-e/

They look at Midjourney and Dall-E and provide information about the copyright situation for both examples. I have mostly played around with Midjourney, and found this blurb of particular use:


If you are a free user or have just a trial account, you get a Commons Noncommercial 4.0 Attribution International License, This means that you can use these images, but you can't sell them or make money from them. You must also give information ("attribution") to Midjourney. If you pay for your account, the company says “You basically own all Assets you create using Midjourney’s image generation and chat services.”


Chime in if you have more details or information on the subject.

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Made in us
Master Tormentor





St. Louis

Midjourney's statement is incorrect. Under US law, AI generated content isn't owned by anyone. Naruto v. Slater holds that non-humans can't own copyrights, and copyrights may only be issued to the creator of an original piece. Given that AI "art" is neither original nor created by a human, it can't be copyrighted in the United States.
   
Made in us
Battlefield Tourist




MN (Currently in WY)

Interesting.

So, it can be used game books and the like freely as their are no copyright holders?

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Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





Yeah, MidJ might be committing some kind of fraud saying people can legally commercialize content by paying for it when they don't have the authority to grant it in the first place. so buyer beware.

 Easy E wrote:
So, it can be used game books and the like freely as their are no copyright holders?

Sort of but watch out.
As a placeholder art or for your personal campaigns that will never see the light of day in a public sphere, nobody can stop you from using the images.
In a commercial realm...eh, just don't for now.
You're inviting a PR minefield and potentially tanking your reputation.

There's the ongoing legal and ethical issues surrounding how these tools were created and rolled out, and lawsuits are being filed against the companies that made them.
There are studies (I'll try and find link) that the machines prone to overfitting and memorization so 1-2+% of the generated images are accidental plagiarism of the works they were trained on. So imagine running the cost of a physical product like printed books or card game, or worse doing a miniature sculpts, and all the investment it takes to do that, only to find you now have to run a reprint with those images removed or scrap the minis because you're getting a cease and desist (or if lucky) renegotiate for steep licensing rights from the person whose work or facial likeness you unknowingly used.

I understand that not everyone has the financial resources to hire artists, and some customers will not care so long as it looks cool.
But there are quite a few creatives in the gaming community, you will burn bridges with them by using it in your products.
So if you ever get to the point where you can hire artists they will not want to work with you over this.

And because of how readily available these tools are, and text generators, if you use machine generated content in one part of your product how do gamers/customers know you put any actual personal effort into the rest and didn't just have a machine do it for you?
Scifi story publisher Clarkesworld had to shutter their online submission for the foreseeable future because they're getting swamped with low effort 'authors' trying to make a quick buck or clout or whatever. They do not have the tools or staff to sift through to review the honest human written content.
You can sink years of your time into developing a gaming system or worldbuilding, but you use too much noticeable ai artwork people may not want to even try your product or trust any future product because you'll get lumped in with those guys.
You're going to have to do more work to stand out against the flood of that kind of content.

Lastly unless it's image-to-image and edited afterwards (where there's some possible copyright protection) because of the lack of copyright there's nothing stopping someone from using the same images as you, even if you prompted it, which is like releasing a product with license-free stock art. It feels cheap.

edit: Forgot to mention that one area I have seem some game developers use it as starting points to commission actual artists for original copyrightable pieces. Not asking them to edit or overpaint but communicating to artists a concept they can't find direct image references of "I want something that evokes similar dark fantasy moods or use a color pallete like this ai piece."

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/03/08 20:52:26


 
   
Made in us
Battlefield Tourist




MN (Currently in WY)

Yeah, that was my thought to. Still a lot of legal risk out there for now for hard copy books.

PDF only type products maybe a different kettle of fish as they can get pulled down and edited pretty quickly if needed.

Interesting thoughts on the "credibility risk" of using A.I. generated artwork.


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Made in ua
Perfect Shot Black Templar Predator Pilot





The Dark Imperium

I've been thinking about his lately with all the buzz over OpenAI. I would think there would be trademark issues with anything that resembles established IP.

I think to be safe if I use it I'm just going to make some maps and some original concepts.

I can always break out the pencils and brushes if I want concepts, but could be neat for getting ideas.

Has anyone seen the youtubes showing "40K as a dark 80's Sci-Fi?"

I think they must be feeding it images from Dune. In fact they have to be.

   
Made in ca
Deadshot Weapon Moderati




Why not support actual artists, as you would hope they would support your game work?
   
Made in us
Perfect Shot Black Templar Predator Pilot





The Dark Imperium

So in the case where one is not feeding it images of copyrighted works such as what this guys did to get some Bibles scenes:




Is it infringement or hurting artists because you didn't pay someone else to spend time coming up with concepts for you? Think about how much music you've heard that sounds like other music you've heard produced by people who will tell you who their inspirations were.

If you're an artist yourself, and you do your own work you're in direct competition with other artists.

Having a tool that makes you an "artist" by creating from the common wealth of artistic knowledge and technique wouldn't be the same as feeding it random stuff to rehash I don't think.

I guess it all comes down to accessibility, like with everything open sourced and decentralized now, from code to crypto currency. Will be interesting, scary? to see where all this goes as with AI general.


   
Made in us
Battlefield Tourist




MN (Currently in WY)

Nomeny wrote:
Why not support actual artists, as you would hope they would support your game work?


This is a great question, and there are a few reasons:

1. They cost more than I am likely to make from PDF rules only releases as an indie wargame designer
2. They slow down the production time line
3. They take much longer to get to the finished product
4. They can be tough to track down and commission for this niche of art
5. You lose some control of the final product
6. Most artists are not interested in wargame books

Those are the reasons for me to consider AI artwork rather than commissioning an artist. Right now, I typically use Wkimedia commons photos with attribution as needed, and photographs from my personal collection that I took. I do this for the reasons I outlined above.

At present, I only have 1 project that is utilizing an outside artist.

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Made in us
Battlefield Tourist




MN (Currently in WY)

It looks like One Book Shelf- The largest place for distributing RPGs and other tabletop game content has updated their policy. This will probably be the guide for most companies going forward until it all gets sorted out:

https://owenkcstephens.com/2022/09/07/the-current-onebookshelf-ai-art-policy/


Tool- and AI-Generated Images
The following policy applies only to titles listed by publishers on DriveThruRPG. Other sites and community programs are, for now, exempt from these rules.

3rd Party Tool-Generated Images

All product listings that feature art or maps generated using a tool or service designed to reduce or offset the artistic process (such as donjon, Inkarnate, or Dungeondraft) are required to utilize the Format > Creation Method > 3rd Party Tool-Made title filter, except in the following instances:

the tool uses only art assets that you have created by hand;
1. the art has undergone additional processing or modification post-generation (such as animating generated maps or tokens, painting and compositing over content, etc.); or
2. the product is expressly approved by OneBookShelf.
3. AI-Generated Images

All product listings that feature art created automatically by an AI-generation tool meant to bypass or replace human artistry, such as ArtBreeder, MidJourney, NightCafe, etc. are required to utilize the Format > Creation Method > AI-Generated title filter, except in the following instances:

1. the art has undergone significant processing/modification post-generation; or
2. the product is expressly approved by OneBookShelf.

Note for AI-Generated Stock Art

Titles containing any art rendered by AI-generated tools that are sold as “Stock Art” (under the Product Type > Publisher Resources filter) must also display the following statement in their product description:

This product contains assets that were, wholly or in part, procedurally generated with the aid of creative software(s) powered by machine learning.

Titles that do not comply are subject to removal from the marketplace. Repeat offenders may have their publishing permissions revoked.”

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Made in us
Norn Queen






Well, I don't know of any art work being produced today that doesn't end up in photoshop and photoshop use AI tools to generate effects constantly.

So at this point unless you used physical mediums and then scanned it in it's all going to fall under these dumb ass guidelines.


These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.
 
   
 
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