The Militia has arrived.

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**locarno24**

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/04/18/the-imperialis-militia-joins-the-horus-heresy-in-a-new-exemplary-battles-download/

It looks awesome. Literally everything looks well done: infantry squads can be bought 3-per-troop slot, provenance let you field ogryn or cavalry centric armies, you can take massed, massed tanks but they're deliberately weak ('third line' makes glancing hits penetrating!) And you can even pack cargo-8s as 'technicals' and jump pack soldiers with pistols.

At the same time, is it wrong that my first thought is 900 respawning levy grunts with lasguns? Just to see how many I can lose?

"There's an objective under there somewhere!!"
"Maybe but I'm running out of phosphex over here!"

**lord_blackfang**

I'm amazed they could think of so many different ways to emphasize how bad, untrained and ramshackle the army is.

**locarno24**

Hey, that I don't mind so much, as long as they're awful BUT cheap. The fact that levy and third-line tanks give away no victory points because they're so damn expendable is a nice touch.

Horus Heresy is a game where I think it's fair to emphasis the difference between 'these are space marines' and 'these are really really really NOT space marines'.

For that matter even making sure there's a meaningful difference with solar auxiliary 'regulars' seems fair.

**lord_blackfang**

Then again they're still making the classic blunder of "Elite" humans costing almost as much as Marines while still dying to a stiff breeze. 8 pt Grenadiers with Bolters... with all 3s and a 5+ save

I doubt they're worth 80% a Marine... or indeed 4 2-point Levy. Good luck painting 1000 dudes tho

I'm genuinely sad so many "upgrades" are also just so weak... like every single Provenance

**Not Online!!!**

.....

on one hand, yes on the other hand. Having cut out morale mitigation to an absurd degree and then shoveling the milita archetype down our throat really isn't.. ok imo, especially not the bit about sweeping advances. Because at that stage it doesn't matter if i outnumer you 4 : 1 you will just artiifically fold my whole infantry unit.

otoh. I can create the army i want more or less successfully and i have decent ways to field that on the battlefield.

Horrendously though, this army will outright wipe the floor with infantry heavy Solar auxilia, if solely for the fieldgun battery. NVM the actually ok priced heavy artillery.

**lord_blackfang**

Then there's the just plain nonsense.

Fire Support Squad... 30 points for a 2-wound heavy bolter.

Rapier... 30 points for a 5-wound gravis heavy bolter battery.

Then the beastmaster unit which is just an incoherent pile of nonsense like the author was writing it while having a stroke.

**locarno24**

For what it's worth, grenadiers have a 4+ save, and with appropriate provenance can turn up with BS4 lasrifles at no extra cost.

Still not sure if that's worth it but at that point I think they're very obviously different in capability to line and levy troops.

**Ventus**

Nearly everything in this pdf is so dramatically overpriced I can't imagine how anything but a very bizarre skew list could stand a chance against a conventional marine army. Even basic tactical marines (who are largely ineffective in most matchups) will mow through militia troops while taking few if any losses in return.

It doesn't help that the new rules are significantly less favourable than old heresy to regular humans, with large free cover saves being more of a rarity. The reduction in penetration/lethality also doesn't really help these guys although I suppose you're marginally less likely to see whole squads of guys vaporized under ordy templates.

**Gert**

"The army specifically said to be a gaggle of untrained troops used as a blocking force isn't easy to use."
Congratulations, you have discovered The Point.

**Tsagualsa**

Gert wrote:
"The army specifically said to be a gaggle of untrained troops used as a blocking force isn't easy to use."
Congratulations, you have discovered The Point.

For all the clamouring HH people do about playing the lore-accurate armies and absolutely needing a specific plastic kit for the mark XI power-armour nipples they seem to miss that relatively often if 'accuracy' does not map straight to ingame advantages

**Racerguy180**

I'm sure some local community points adjustments will fix this.

No big surprise that GW put little thought into the pdf.

Couple things I did like,

Levy squad numbers
Rogue Psyker + wardens(good way to add breach the veil)

**Gert**

Tsagualsa wrote:
For all the clamouring HH people do about playing the lore-accurate armies and absolutely needing a specific plastic kit for the mark XI power-armour nipples they seem to miss that relatively often if 'accuracy' does not map straight to ingame advantages

Dakka so far is the only place I've seen people really whinge (well excluding people who were expecting dedicated kits for some strange reason), so you know, par for the course.

**lord_blackfang**

Maybe Dakka is the only place with any brains

**Not Online!!!**

Gert wrote:
"The army specifically said to be a gaggle of untrained troops used as a blocking force isn't easy to use."
Congratulations, you have discovered The Point.

Interpreting second line, in the context of how the imperial army is supposed to be, as untrained gaggle is certainly a ... Take.

**Gert**

Not Online!!! wrote:
Interpreting second line, in the context of how the imperial army is supposed to be, as untrained gaggle is certainly a ... Take.

Cool but this list is not the Imperial Army, is it? This is the local defence forces raised on planets after the Crusade forces leave. You can certainly choose to have Your Dudes be a revived Imperial Army Regiment and the rules allow you to do so but these rules are primarily to represent the irregular forces raised to bolster the manpower of the two sides of the Heresy.
Are they brilliant? No, but neither was the HH1 list barring some blindingly OP builds that needed to be removed. I'm fine with having an army that requires a bit of skill to master.

**Tsagualsa**

Not Online!!! wrote:
Gert wrote:
"The army specifically said to be a gaggle of untrained troops used as a blocking force isn't easy to use."
Congratulations, you have discovered The Point.

Interpreting second line, in the context of how the imperial army is supposed to be, as untrained gaggle is certainly a ... Take.

But this .pdf does not present the Imperial Army, it represents Militia and Levy forces. In the parlance of 40k, these would be PDF forces and such, not the Guard. Specifically the lowest rung on the ladder of competence that is still considered actual military.

Across the entire Imperium, it falls to the Imperialis Militia
to secure and to hold those worlds brought to Compliance
by the Expeditionary fleets of the Great Crusade. Part of the
vast, sprawling body of the Imperium’s military and its support
structure, known collectively as the ‘Excertus Imperialis’, they
form what is in effect the lowest and most common rung
of the wider Imperial Army, or the ‘Imperialis Auxilia’ as it is
more precisely known. Once a world is declared Compliant
and under the full control of an appointed and independent
Imperial Commander, part of that Commander’s principal
duty is the raising of an Imperialis Militia to protect their
domain and sustain their control. It is the duty of this militia
to act in no small part as the enforcers of the Imperial Truth if
needed, and its protectors should the Iterators and cadres of
administrators of all stripes who are left behind to oversee the
long transition to full concordance become threatened or meet
resistance. When the first- and second-line units of the Crusade
hosts depart, such worlds stand alone once more. Should
rebellion ignite, the third-line reserve – the world’s own militia
– must crush it. Should xenos raiders or outcasts attack from
without, the world’s own militia must hold until help arrives.
The Imperialis Militia are therefore the first, and in many
cases, the only bulwark against recidivism and disorder, and
its forces, whether they are raised as conscripts from a hive’s
teeming masses, the yeomanry of a feudal order or tribal levies,
stand guard as watchmen against the return of the horrors of
Old Night.

**lord_blackfang**

Yes, it's lore accurate. It's also unplayable outside maybe a few dumb skew lists. Levy spam would probably be decent at first glance but you can't physcally fit as many as you need on the table. Not to mention being the most expensive HH army even if you spam Wargames Atlantic proxies.

**locarno24**

Indeed. Levy seem way more useful than 'regulars' just because of the sheer footprint you can field.

I do like that cavalry and ogryns are both options, and both have had some thought put into them - assault 5 ripper guns and a no-aiming-required heavy flamer balance out the BS2 ogryns a bit better than it used to be.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

You can certainly choose to have Your Dudes be a revived Imperial Army Regiment and the rules allow you to do so but these rules are primarily to represent the irregular forces raised to bolster the manpower of the two sides of the Heresy.

You can, but it's worth noting that the provenances that would fit such a unit are things like Warrior Elite, Armoury of Old Night and Legacy Of The Great Crusade which pushes you towards BS4 grenadiers with lasguns or lasrifles that look way more like budget solar auxiliaries.

**Gert**

locarno24 wrote:
You can, but it's worth noting that the provenances that would fit such a unit are things like Warrior Elite, Armoury of Old Night and Legacy Of The Great Crusade which pushes you towards BS4 grenadiers with lasguns or lasrifles that look way more like budget solar auxiliaries.

Right because the list isn't intended to represent the mainline army soldiers. Why is this such a shock when the document literally gives you all the information on what the army is?

lord_blackfang wrote:
Yes, it's lore accurate. It's also unplayable outside maybe a few dumb skew lists. Levy spam would probably be decent at first glance but you can't physcally fit as many as you need on the table.

Unplayable is such a nonsense word. Non-competitive, sure but unplayable? No, not true. And so what if the army relies on taking silly lists dedicated to mass cavalry charges or conscript spam? That's the point of the army to build crazy lists and crazy models.

Not to mention being the most expensive HH army even if you spam Wargames Atlantic proxies.

Probably one of the reasons why the article recommends veteran HH players try the army. Hell the intention behind the army in HH1 was to entice 40k Guard and R&H players into HH, which is the exact same thing it's doing here. That's what the Ruinstorm and Militia lists are intended to do, give players with substantial collections a chance to use them in HH.

**Racerguy180**

I guess this means Imperial Army and Cults will get their own PDF's respectively???

**lord_blackfang**

Gert wrote:

lord_blackfang wrote:
Yes, it's lore accurate. It's also unplayable outside maybe a few dumb skew lists. Levy spam would probably be decent at first glance but you can't physcally fit as many as you need on the table.

Unplayable is such a nonsense word. Non-competitive, sure but unplayable? No, not true. And so what if the army relies on taking silly lists dedicated to mass cavalry charges or conscript spam? That's the point of the army to build crazy lists and crazy models.

Silly lists are great if they're what you want to play, not if they're the only thing that's good enough to play. And even when it is it isn't - everything that's good in this list is skewing towards ridiculously cheap, ridiculously large hordes in magnitudes that aren't physically playable. The middling units are just terrible value for points and internal balance is atrocious, I'll repeat the one that should have jumped out at anyone

Fire Support Squad... 30 points for a 2-wound heavy bolter.

Rapier... 30 points for a 5-wound gravis heavy bolter battery.

Also enjoy the "fun" beastmaster unit where you can pay points for monsters a bunch of abilities they can't use because they're locked in a mixed unit with handlers.

It's a list written with remarkable incompetence with any viable units being a result of pure chance. Which is a shame because there sure are a lot of fun modelling projects in it.

**ArcaneHorror**

I think that it would be fun to run a mass army of Tainted Flesh. I would give them all lasrifles with bayonets, but I'm too lazy to actually model rifles on all of them, so I'll just say that they can shoot darts from their bodies like Carnage, and that the bayonets are claws and teeth. Chaos Warhounds would make for good warp-touched Mastiffs.

**Tsagualsa**

Racerguy180 wrote:
I guess this means Imperial Army and Cults will get their own PDF's respectively???

IIRC they announced that in the article that had the Ruinstorm Demons pdf.

**Gert**

Racerguy180 wrote:
I guess this means Imperial Army and Cults will get their own PDF's respectively???

There are some Traitor-only options that represent the Warp Cults. As for Army, who knows.

@lord_blackfang
You might want to reread the beast unit there chief cos the rules are all absolutely fine.

**lord_blackfang**

Ah yes of course, the Ld 5 unit that becomes useful after it takes 50% casualties, how did I not see it before!

**Not Online!!!**

Gert wrote:
Not Online!!! wrote:
Interpreting second line, in the context of how the imperial army is supposed to be, as untrained gaggle is certainly a ... Take.

Cool but this list is not the Imperial Army, is it? This is the local defence forces raised on planets after the Crusade forces leave. You can certainly choose to have Your Dudes be a revived Imperial Army Regiment and the rules allow you to do so but these rules are primarily to represent the irregular forces raised to bolster the manpower of the two sides of the Heresy.
Are they brilliant? No, but neither was the HH1 list barring some blindingly OP builds that needed to be removed. I'm fine with having an army that requires a bit of skill to master.

That is fair especially since the army is very adaptable and therefore could very easily be problematic.
However, when you remove the core issues of the list (fearless blobs and artillery) and then proceed to kick the rest of the list (militia archetype and mothballed tanks) then we are at a point were one wonders if a Beta wouldn't have provided better results but then again GW-Ruleswriter hate feedback.

Nvm rapiers and HWT's points seem like an excercise in why?(also quadlauncher rapiers only get frags? not Incindiary or AT seems like an oversight to me aswell)

And fwiw, they are still part of the army and considering that the HH era imperium had it's gak more together it is questionable in many ways that it is very iffy to break into the "second " rank formations when this would be the most sensible place to grant us these rules anyways.

Edit: also artillery is still an issue considering that the lower AP double nerfed Human forces by A robbing them of their tool against marines and B still getting utterly obliterated by it.

**Gert**

You can still use Rage, Furious Charge, Shrouded, and FNP at all times on the beasts. The only one that kicks in when the handlers die is Fleet.

@Not_Online!!!
Quads only got Frag in HH1 as well. "Specialist" shells are reserved for real Army units.
As for the last bit, sort of. The Imperium was better organised during the Crusade than post-Heresy but only on the front lines. The forces represented by the Militia list are that, militia. These are formations made up of the local PDF, enforcers, household guards, bonded serfs, or conscripts who don't serve in a regular capacity. Think the Home Guard but they actually get into combat at some point. They're useful for holding actions and supporting with the sheer weight of numbers but they're not real soldiers.

**lord_blackfang**

If you put a gun to my head, I would choose the Russ spam trait and Squat trait, I guess. Max out on 2 point T4 Levy, T6 Ogryn and 120 point almost AV14 gravis lascannons.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Gert wrote:
You can still use Rage, Furious Charge, Shrouded, and FNP at all times on the beasts. The only one that kicks in when the handlers die is Fleet.

And the beasts' higher Move

**Bobug**

.

**Gert**

@lord_blackfang
Skirmish allows for 3" coherency so actually no, all the beast movement values are within the usable range. They also all get +1 to Terrain cover saves.
So the only rule the beasts don't often benefit from is Fleet.