Switch Theme:

Dark Angels 10th Edition Tactics: The Lion Has Returned  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
»
Author Message
Advert


Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
  • No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
  • Times and dates in your local timezone.
  • Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
  • Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
  • Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.




Made in us
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain






A Protoss colony world

Now that we have all the datasheets as well as the point values of all of the units available to Dark Angels, I think it's time to start a 10th edition tactics thread so we can go ahead and sunset the old 9th one. And as I'm very fond of doing, I thought I'd kick us off with a unit tier list. This is going to be fairly exhaustive, too, as I want to discuss every unit available to us, which means both the vanilla Space Marine units as well as the Dark Angels-specific stuff. The purpose of this is to stimulate some constructive discussion about our units and options; at the time of writing these are very much just hot takes, but maybe we can revisit this in future once we've gotten some games (and possibly tournaments) under our belts. This is gonna be a long one, so I'm going to spoiler tag each category: Characters, Units, and Vehicles. Here goes:

CHARACTERS

Spoiler:
Azrael: S Tier: This guy is just about a must-take, and not too expensive for how much he brings. CP is a precious thing in 10th, and he gives more just for being there. Sustained Hits 1 is a great buff for a shooting or melee unit, particularly one with decent volume of attacks, and the 4++ he gives his unit is the cherry on top. Stick him with some Hellblasters and go melt stuff, he's awesome!

Belial: A Tier: Belial has become something of a character assassin, giving his unit Precision on critical hits in melee. Given that he can only lead Terminators, I might suggest sticking him with a Deathwing Command Squad or perhaps some Deathwing Knights (although those are probably a bit too expensive). If you were already planning on bringing a few Deathwing of some kind, he's a good add.

Sammael: B Tier: Sammy's good, and giving an already-fast unit like Black Knights or Outriders Advance & Charge is great, but I'm not entirely sure it's worth his price tag. Then again, mobility is usually king in 40k, so maybe it's worth it.

Ezekiel: B Tier: Ezekiel gives a solid buff to a unit, but his main downside is that there's nothing amazing that he can actually lead. Vanguard Veterans are probably the best choice, and Ezekiel isn't too expensive as an add-on to that unit, so maybe the play is 5 of those plus him in a Razorback.

Asmodai: C Tier: They keep doing my boy dirty. He's certainly cheap enough to maybe be good, but again there isn't anything amazing for him to lead. He could potentially be a decent candidate for a Command Squad as they would benefit well from his rerolls (seeing as how a couple of them can take real melee weapons) but that unit is just too expensive for what it does. Ezekiel is just a better choice most of the time.

Lazarus: B Tier: Fight on death is a strong ability, and it's seen across a number of different armies in the new edition. For that reason, Lazarus probably wants to go with a dedicated melee unit, and that means either Bladeguard or Assault Intercessors (hint: pick the Bladeguard). As he has the Captain keyword, he can even pair with certain other characters to make a strong unit.

Lion El'Jonson: S Tier: He's a Primarch who is stupidly hard to kill and gives out some serious debuffs to the enemy, forcing them to either play at a disadvantage or find a way to neutralize him. He absolutely pays for this utility, but most of the time you'll happily find a way to fit him into your list. It certainly doesn't hurt that he also hits like a truck, either!

Ravenwing Talonmaster: A Tier: Not as nasty as in the previous edition, as he now has half the firepower he had before because Twin-linked. Still a decent tool to have, as he lets nearby Bikes and Speeders ignore cover, useful in a world where weapons generally have less AP than before. Probably don't take more than one anymore though. Actually funnily enough there might be a strange rules loophole that makes running more than one a good play: as a Fly Vehicle, a Talonmaster provides Lone Operative to another Talonmaster, so two or three of these next to each other grant each other immunity to shooting. I expect this to get corrected if it hasn't already been, but for now enjoy the jank!

Deathwing Strikemaster: A Tier: He's a Lieutenant in Terminator Armor, something regular Marines just don't get. He gives the standard Lieutenant unit buff of Lethal Hits to his unit, and on a big brick of Terminators that could actually be scary and make them more dangerous to enemy monsters and vehicles.

Primaris Captain: B Tier: As a unit leader, he's generically “fine”. The ability to pop a stratagem for free and even if it's already been used in the current phase is nice. The issue is that units he can lead have better, more exciting options for leaders.

Captain in Gravis Armor: C Tier: He has the standard captain ability (free strat once per round) but his other ability only benefits him personally and helps him stay alive if his unit gets dirtnapped. He can only join walking Gravis units, and none of those really need him. Could be interesting paired with an Apothecary Biologis leading a brick of Aggressors, but that's a fairly expensive package.

Captain in Phobos Armor: B Tier: He has a redeploy ability, but only for Phobos units. Crucially, it's timed such that you'll know who has the first turn before you pop it, so it can be used offensively or defensively. A neat thing to remember is that Invictor Warsuits have the Phobos keyword, so this could be good if Invictors end up being good.

Captain in Terminator Armor: A Tier: Gives charge rerolls to a Terminator unit he leads, and in Dark Angels the unique Deathwing units can indeed be led by this guy. This combined with the standard Captain free strat ability is great, and I expect to see these lead Deathwing as a nice alternative to Belial.

Captain: C Tier: Same as Primaris Captain, but only leads Firstborn units (Tacticals, Assault, VanVet and Command Squads), and has more weapon options. The relatively lackluster nature of those units means this guy isn't as useful as he could be.

Captain with Jump Pack: B Tier: If Jump Pack Assault Squads or VanVets turn out to be good, this guy will be good, as his ability is pretty good with them. Those units and this character pay a bit of a premium for their jump packs though.

Captain on Bike: B Tier: His buff makes it so a bike unit can advance and still shoot all their guns, which is nice, but they can't charge afterwards, meaning this guy is like a slightly worse Sammael. He is significantly cheaper, though, so might still have some play, particularly in bike-heavy strategies.

Primaris Lieutenant: A Tier: Another very solid buff character, and can pair with a Captain or Chapter Master. Lethal Hits is just a nice ability to add to just about any unit, and lets said unit punch above its weight. Works well with Azrael or Lazarus to further enhance the units they lead.

Lieutenant in Reiver Armor: D Tier: Reivers, even after three editions, still just aren't that good, so adding this guy to them is just throwing good points after bad. Lethal Hits, as mentioned above, is a nice buff, but they just don't have any weapons that are worth buffing.

Lieutenant in Phobos Armor: C Tier: Has a bit more flexibility in which Phobos unit he can join, but still doesn't really add anything useful to them (Lethal Hits matters a lot less on the weak weapons carried by Incursors/Infiltrators/Reivers). The shoot and scoot ability is cute and might allow some trick plays.

Lieutenant: C Tier: Oddly the most expensive vanilla Marine Lieutenant. In addition to the standard Lethal Hits, he give the ability for his unit to fall back and still shoot or charge. This could be nice on VanVets or Assault Marines, but Tacticals can already do this and Command Squads are probably too expensive.

Lieutenant with Combi-weapon: D Tier: His weapon is good vs. Tyranids, which is funny but way too specific, and his other abilities just don't add enough for his points.

Primaris Librarian: A Tier: Gives his unit a 4+ Invulnerable Save, which is a great thing to have on a lot of different units. And he can even join a Desolation Squad, which is great.

Librarian in Phobos Armor: B Tier: Grants Stealth and protection from shooting by any enemy outside 12”, which is nice, but he can only give this to Phobos units. Probably best used with Eliminators.

Librarian in Terminator Armor: A Tier: Another great character option for Terminator units. Sustained Hits is a great buff for regular shooty Termies, as they carry Storm Bolters and can take Assault Cannons with lots of shots, so plenty of chances to proc those extra hits. It does work in melee too, of course.

Librarian: C Tier: Same as Primaris Librarian, but can't really join anything you want to give extra durability to. VanVets can take Storm Shields for the same save, and it probably isn't worth spending the points to give it to the other Firstborn units.

Librarian with Jump Pack: B Tier: If you want to run a jump pack melee unit (Assault or VanVet squad), this is possibly the best choice to lead it. Extra AP adds good value to a unit with that kind of attack volume.

Primaris Chaplain: B Tier: Bonuses to wound rolls are pretty strong, this guy is probably a good add for Bladeguard. Assault Intercessors would like this buff too, but I'm not sure it's worth it on them. Fixing a unit that gets Battle-shocked can be good, but some of the Dark Angels detachment's enhancements and stratagems get better when a unit is Battle-shocked, so it's potentially counter-synergistic.

Chaplain in Terminator Armor: A Tier: Has the standard wound buff of all Chaplains, but this model lets you apply mortal wound protection to Termies. Mortal wounds are a weakness for tough expensive models like Termies, so this could be good value to keep them alive. Possibly best on Deathwing Knights, who will REALLY appreciate the mortal wound protection and the +1 to wound.

Chaplain on Bike: S Tier: If you're running bikes, you probably want this model. Devastating Wounds is powerful on all their shooting (even if it's just bolters, you get enough shots to reliably fish for 6's). If you can get a cheeky 6 on a melta shot, that's even better! Only downside is you do have to get pretty close.

Chaplain: C Tier: Same abilities as the Primaris version, but can't attach to anything you need to put these buffs on. Walking VanVets maybe, but there are other buff characters for those.

Chaplain with Jump Pack: C Tier: Putting out mortals is nice, but it's unreliable. +1 to wound is nice to have on VanVets, so this guy might be better if those turn out to be good.

Primaris Techmarine: B Tier: If you run a lot of vehicles, you probably want this model around. Goes full murderhobo if a vehicle dies, which is funny, but you don't bring this guy for his combat. Just keep him near the back and fix vehicles when they get busted.

Techmarine: C Tier: Strangely costs more than the Primaris version, but does have more wargear options. Which you probably won't take, because only the Axe gets better if a vehicle dies. At least do take the servo-harness though; it's literally free extra guns so go nuts.

Astartes Servitors: C Tier: You probably won't bother with these, but attached to a Techmarine they can provide some cheeky firepower. I list these with characters because they are not worth considering without a Techmarine (and probably still not even with one).

Primaris Company Champion: B Tier: Yet another good leader choice for Bladeguard; probably not worth it with anything else (maybe Assault Intercessors?). Can potentially assassinate enemy characters in melee thanks to Precision on his weapon.

Primaris Apothecary: A Tier: Resurrecting models can be really strong; probably best on units like Hellblasters or Desolation Squads. Can combo well with Hellblasters to bring them back when their Hazardous tests blow them up.

Apothecary Biologis: C Tier: Probably only truly useful on Aggressors, as they actually have meaningful melee to proc his extra OC. Lethal Hits is a good buff to have on those, as it lets them punch up into stronger enemies a bit, although they do already have Twin-linked on their fists and therefore don't need the buff as much (the guns don't mind it though).

Primaris Ancient: C Tier: Probably not worth the points, but more testing is needed as increasing OC could be very powerful, especially if it still works while the unit is Battle-shocked (except as Dark Angels, we already have OC1 when Battle-shocked).

Bladeguard Ancient: A Tier: If you are running Bladeguard, this guy should definitely be considered, as more attacks on those is always welcome. He can even combo with a Captain, Chapter Master, or Lieutenant, and might pair well with Lazarus.

Ancient in Terminator Armor: D Tier: He gives +1 to hit for units under starting strength, which doesn't always matter as most Terminator units have Fury of the First (or the equivalent ability baked into another ability). +1 to wound is nice though, and if you're not shooting/fighting the Oath of Moment target it matters more. I personally don't think he's worth the points; I'd rather just invest in a Deathwing Command Squad intead.

Judiciar: S Tier: Of all the characters that can join Bladeguard, this guy might be the best. Fights First is an incredibly powerful ability, making a unit with it difficult to come to grips with in melee, as to hit them you first have to survive being hit by them. Can also murk enemy characters with his own weapon, and gets more attacks each time he does so.


UNITS

Spoiler:
Intercessor Squad: B Tier: Possibly our best Battleline option, if for no other reason than “sticky objectives”. They won't win games by themselves and probably don't warrant an attached character, but they can hold take and hold ground.

Infernus Squad: B Tier: Auto-hitting weapons that force a Battle-shock test could be a good tool to have in our back pocket. They'll also clear hordes of gribblies reasonably efficiently.

Assault Intercessors: A Tier: The other candidate for best Battleline; unlike normal Intercessors these are better for taking objectives away from the enemy, whereas the ones with rifles are better for holding onto ones you already have. Always take a weapon upgrade on the sarge, and if you want a big unit you might consider some kind of buff character.

Heavy Intercessors: A Tier: No sticky objectives, but these are really hard to shift with small arms and their own guns aren't terrible for the price. Don't bother with a buff character.

Infiltrators: A Tier: Guns are underwhelming, but the ability to infiltrate and prevent Deep Strikes within 12” of them is a nice utility, especially against armies like Daemons. And they're cheaper than Intercessors!

Incursors: A Tier: Taken in small units these guys provide some good utility. The haywire mine is a way to do some cheeky mortal wounds, especially to tough vehicles. They don't infiltrate anymore, but they do get the Scout rule for a pregame move. A good way to buff the rest of your army's shooting against a key enemy unit.

Tactical Squad: C Tier: Cheaper per model than Intercessors and they get the option to take better weapons (which you definitely should), but you are stuck with 10 dudes. Being able to fall back, shoot, and charge is very nice, but you aren't going to charge with tacticals, like, ever.

Scout Squad: B Tier: You don't bring these for the firepower; you bring them for the utility they bring. Personally I'd skip these in favor of the snipers, but taking a unit of 5 in a Storm could be fun.

Scout Sniper Squad: A Tier: One of the better character hunter units in the game, probably better point for point than even Eliminators.

Bladeguard Veteran Squad: S Tier: Probably one of the best melee units in the game for their cost, and they have all kinds of good options for leaders.

Command Squad: D Tier: This unit is straight cabbage. They cost almost as much per model as Bladeguard, but just aren't as killy despite two of them having access to the good melee weapon options from the Astartes arsenal. The Apothecary resurrecting one every turn is cool until you realise the enemy can just easily wipe the unit before he gets a chance.

Vanguard Veteran Squad: B Tier: These models are fine. Not great, just fine. They do make a good retinue for Ezekiel, who makes them capable of turning hordes into fine pink mist. Anything beefier than that (like Terminators or Custodes) and they'll bounce hard.

Vanguard Veteran Squad with Jump Packs: C Tier: Less choices for attached characters, but definitely more mobile than their footslogging brethren. Not sure these are worth it over Assault Squads, honestly. Their weapons are a little better, but they cost a bit more, and they lack the Hammer of Wrath ability.

Sternguard Veteran Squad: A Tier: These guys are nice to have when facing enemy infantry, especially if they can get rerolls to wound. Not honestly sure whether the bolt rifles or combi weapons are better; both have Devastating Wounds, but the combis have Anti-Infantry 4+ and thus will proc them more. The bolt rifles have more shots (in half range), though, and thus are more generally useful (e.g. against non-infantry targets).

Reiver Squad: C Tier: This unit is clearly intended to gank characters in squads, but their weapons aren't that scary to most characters in the game. Forcing an enemy unit they charge to take a Battle-shock test (at -1 leadership) is potentially useful, so I won't write these off completely.

Aggressor Squad: B Tier: These guys are tough and with twin-linked on their fists can punch above their weight class, but you do pay for that utility. I don't think these are bad, but I'm not sure they're as good as terminators either.

Terminator Assault Squad: A Tier: Dark Angels love their Terminators, and the Teleport Homer can be a nice piece of tech to let this unit appear in some strange spots during your opponent's turn. I'd stick with the hammers and shields; the extra wound will come in handy when facing D3 weapons.

Terminator Squad: A Tier: Terminators are great, and the shooty variant are great all-around models who are tough and can shoot decently hard. Fury of the First gives great utility to avoid pesky hit/wound modifiers.

Relic Terminator Squad: B Tier: Not terrible, but the options on the regular ones or especially the Deathwing ones are better. At least they are slightly cheaper.

Deathwing Command Squad: S Tier: These guys, quite simply, rule. Take the full brick of 10 for best results; that Apothecary bringing dudes back is more viable in a unit like this, as unlike the power-armored squad this unit is very non-trivial to wipe out. Put a character in for maximum usefulness.

Deathwing Terminator Squad: A Tier: Sort of a hybrid of the regular and Assault Terminator units, and can mix and match their wargear. Kind of a fun way to get Fury of the First on Assault Terminators, as the Deathwing rule is literally the same.

Deathwing Knights: A Tier: Very expensive at 47 points per model, but the damage reduction and large number of wounds makes them very annoying to shift, and they have enough attacks at 3 damage that they'll pretty much murder anything you point them at. Definitely give them some kind of buff character if possible.

Centurion Assault Squad: C Tier: Expensive, and not as effective as they should be at killing monsters and vehicles (too few attacks, even with Sustained Hits 2). I'd personally rather just have Terminators with Chainfists.

Centurion Devastator Squad: C Tier: Like the Assault Centurions above, they are tough but just don't get enough firepower to reliably shift a vehicle despite seeming being optimized for that. Too expensive for what you get.

Assault Squad: B Tier: Footslogging Assault Marines are actually interesting. What a world we live in! Given their unit ability, I think keeping all chainswords is the way to go, with perhaps a good weapon on the sergeant and maybe a couple of Eviscerators. Take as many plasma pistols as you are allowed though, and give that sarge a shield!

Assault Squad with Jump Packs: B Tier: I love their Hammer of Wrath rule in general. Take those Eviscerators! Given the relative cost of the units, I think these might actually be better than jump pack VanVets.

Outrider Squad: B Tier: More expensive than regular Bikers, but more durable and better in melee (and better boltguns but nothing to write home about). Can bring along an Invader ATV in the unit for some real ranged firepower if desired.

Invader ATV: C Tier: Expensive, but it can bring decent firepower. It can also shoot back if someone shoots at a friendly mounted unit, but one ATV isn't really that powerful (and you can't take units of more than 1).

Bike Squad: A Tier: These guys are less durable than Outriders, but they are significantly cheaper and can take real ranged weapons (like plasma and melta). Can also bring along an Attack Bike, which is probably a good idea.

Scout Bike Squad: B Tier: Squishier than normal Bikes with only a 4+ save, but since every guy can take an Astartes Grenade Launcher, you should do that. They cost nearly the same as regular bikes and can't take other special weapons, so probably not quite as good.

Attack Bikes: A Tier: Has the same ability to reactive fire as Invader ATVs, but since you can bring 3 Attack Bikes the ability is much stronger on them. They are cheaper too.

Ravenwing Command Squad: B Tier: Probably too expensive for what you get, but not horribly so. Might be a decent retinue for a character like Sammael. Always bring the full 6 models; you'll need the extra bullet catchers.

Ravenwing Black Knights: S Tier: These guys get Anti-Monster and Anti-Vehicle when they charge, 'nuff said. Their weapons look weak with only 1 damage, but if you have a way to give them rerolls or other buffs they can still punch above their weight, and their shooting isn't too bad either.

Suppressor Squad: C Tier: These are a disruption unit more than a damage-dealing unit, but they aren't durable enough for the cost, and their effect isn't all that strong.

Inceptors: B Tier: These guys have the ability to get close to the enemy on their deep strikes, at the cost of being able to charge. Which is fine, because these guys would rather be shooting than fighting anyways. They can mess with your opponent's screening plans though.

Hellblaster Squad: S Tier: The Azrael Hellblaster Brick is back, baby! Seriously, put Azrael with a big unit of these bastards; he'll make them extra nasty. Maybe add a Primaris Apothecary to resurrect them when they die, too.

Eliminator Squad: B Tier: Sitting still and getting Devastating Wounds is pretty spicy on either of their weapons. I think the Las Fusils are probably better, as Dev Wounds lets them threaten even higher toughness targets, and you have Sniper Scouts for dealing with pesky characters.

Eradicator Squad: A Tier: These are a very good tool for dealing with higher Toughness targets, as they get full rerolls of hits, wounds, and damage against monsters and vehicles. They do have to get danger close to get full effect from their weapons though, so if they whiff they are most likely dead.

Devastator Squad: B Tier: These guys can be equipped with a variety of weapons to fulfill various roles, but are probably best used for anti-tank with Lascannons or Grav-cannons. They can ignore cover if they sit still, which is something they want to do anyway since they have Heavy weapons.

Desolation Squad: S Tier: Some of the best indirect shooting in the entire game. You definitely want some of these.


VEHICLES

Spoiler:
Invictor Tactical Warsuit: B Tier: Good value if you run a lot of Phobos units, but as Dark Angels we'd probably prefer more bikes and Terminators. Being able to get extra shooting when our Phobos buddies get shot is decent value, and the redeploy from the Phobos Captain is very nice on these.

Dreadnought: D Tier: The classic box dread is, unfortunately, trash at its price point. Almost any vehicle will do the same job better.

Contemptor Dreadnought: C Tier: Same problems as the box dread, but at least this thing gets 2 lives 5 out of 6 games. At its cost, it's gonna be frustrating when it fails to get back up though.

Ironclad Dreadnought: C Tier: Oddly it's cheaper than the box dread, but it's better in almost every way. Still not very good, mind you, but not terrible.

Redemptor Dreadnought: B Tier: Probably overcosted, but it's decently tough with its damage reduction. Best used as a mid-table bully that can shoot decently hard with the plasma and then charge if something gets close.

Brutalis Dreadnought: B Tier: Also overcosted, but hits like a freight train. At its cost, always take the multimeltas over the heavy bolters, and probably always take the talons.

Ballistus Dreadnought: A Tier: Priced to move, and has some of the best long-range firepower in our arsenal. Definitely worth a look as a source of anti-tank.

Storm Speeder Hailstrike: B Tier: With the AP of a lot of weapons reduced across the board, the ability to give other Astartes units increased AP against a hard target has significant value. The vehicle's own firepower is somewhat mediocre, however, except against squishy targets.

Storm Speeder Thunderstrike: A Tier: This vehicle has decent firepower vs. lighter vehicles, and its ability lets other units get +1 to wound something it shoots. This could be very key for taking down big targets like Knights.

Storm Speeder Hammerstrike: B Tier: This vehicle is an absolute menace to light vehicles. Its ability removes cover from an enemy unit hit by its weapons, which is slightly underwhelming compared to the other Storm Speeder types.

Land Speeder: C Tier: Expensive for what you get; it does make other units in your army with Blast weapons hit better and ignore cover against a single target (great for Whirlwinds or Desolation Squads). If you run a fair amount of indirect stuff, grab one or two of these.

Land Speeder Tornado: A Tier: Expensive, but its strafe ability is great for pumping out a few cheeky mortal wounds to a tougher squad. Grab an Assault Cannon and Multimelta for some decent firepower too.

Land Speeder Typhoon: A Tier: The “shoot and scoot” ability it has is one of the most annoying rules in the entire game; just ask anyone who has faced Aeldari or Tau in the past. Abuse it!

Ravenwing Darkshroud: A Tier: This unit will help keep some of your expensive stuff alive; very useful for bikes, particularly the more expensive ones like a Ravenwing Command Squad.

Ravenwing Land Speeder Vengeance: A Tier: Has the “shoot back” thing that Attack Bikes/Invader ATVs have, and it's actually scary from this vehicle. It still might be overcosted, but at the very least it'll draw fire away from your bikes because your opponent won't want to give you a free strong shooting attack.

Thunderfire Cannon: A Tier: At first glance these look way too expensive for the shooting they put out, but the Tremor Shells ability is worth every point.

Firestrike Servo-turrets: B Tier: Their guns are good, and firing Overwatch on 4's is pretty decent. Not sure they are worth the points, but probably worth a try in some lists.

Hunter: C Tier: They only get one shot, but against airborne targets it's almost always going to dump a pile of mortal wounds on them. Can be a great tool to soften up tougher flying targets like certain aircraft.

Stalker: C Tier: Like the Hunter, it's best against flying enemies, but it has enough volume of fire to be sort of okay against other stuff. Can really get spicy with Overwatch too.

Whirlwind: B Tier: Our other source of indirect firepower. Not as good as Desolation Marines, but can cause Battle-shock, which could be nasty if applied to an enemy unit on a home objective.

Predator Destructor: B Tier: This thing can do mean things to enemy infantry, as it has decent volume of 2 and 3 damage attacks, that get better AP when targeting Infantry.

Predator Annihilator: C Tier: This is the anti-big stuff Predator, and its ability is much less helpful than the Destructor's.

Gladiator Lancer: A Tier: This is what the Predator Annihilator wants to be. It actually has a good chance of just deleting an enemy tank in one shooting attack.

Gladiator Reaper: A Tier: This is one of the best anti-infantry platforms we have access to. The combination of Twin-linked, Sustained Hits 2 (when targeting Infantry), and Devastating Wounds on its main gun is just nasty.

Gladiator Valiant: B Tier: Decent at picking off lighter vehicles and monsters, generally I'd rather have a Lancer for that as it's cheaper. This vehicle has the potential to spike higher damage than the Lancer though.

Vindicator: B Tier: This tank is good and its ability to fire into a unit in melee with it despite its gun having Blast is pretty cool, but it is overcosted. Its damage is pretty swingy into big targets too, but generally decent.

Land Raider: A Tier: The Assault Ramp ability is absolutely money in the bank for units like Terminators or Aggressors, giving them a massive threat range. It certainly doesn't hurt that it also packs decent anti-tank punch with 4 Lascannon shots.

Land Raider Crusader: B Tier: 16 transport slots is kind of an awkward number to fill, although 6 Aggressors with a Captain and Apothecary Biologis can do it. The guns will shred lightly-armored infantry targets, but will struggle hard against anything bigger or with a decent save.

Land Raider Redeemer: A Tier: Not only does this thing have decent transport capacity, but it can be an absolute menace with its strong auto-hitting flame weapons on Overwatch.

Repulsor: A Tier: For its cost, this thing is absolutely GODLIKE! It's not as sturdy as a Land Raider as it lacks the 2+ save, but it has decent weapons overall, and the ability for a unit being charged to just jump inside can be useful.

Repulsor Executioner: B Tier: Its main gun is legit powerful, but I'm not sure it's worth the points, and it can't tranport that many models. Its ability makes it good for finishing off models like Knights that are already hurt.

Rhino: B Tier: The classic metal bawks is okay enough for its cost; what holds it back is that there's nothing stupendous we want to put in it. Maybe that big squad of footslogging VanVets with Ezekiel. If you want to make use of its Firing Deck, stick some Devastators with Grav Cannons in it and drive it to the middle of the table.

Razorback: B Tier: 6 is not a great number for transports, although that does get you a unit of 5 of something plus a character if you want. The Fire Support rule could be useful for a number of units.

Impulsor: C Tier: Not a bad unit on its own, but I'm not sure what you want to put in it. Perhaps a 5-man unit of Hellblasters, as you can advance the transport and then disembark. Maybe a squad of Intercessors since you can potentially flip a lightly-guarded objective that your opponent didn't think you could reach.

Drop Pod: A Tier: A full-on Drop Pod Assault list could be fun, although you are limited in what can go in one (at least Hellblasters and other Primaris guys can ride in them now). Maybe just three or so of them as a nasty first wave, followed by the rest of your army. Will need to test at some point.

Land Speeder Storm: A Tier: Putting a unit of Scouts inside for some drive-bys could be good against light infantry. Or put a squad specced for melee in and give them good threat range, although any Scout melee is going to be limited in effectiveness.

Stormhawk Interceptor: B Tier: If flying things become a popular part of the meta, these could be very useful. Otherwise, they are just a decent anti-infantry platform that can optionally take a couple of anti-tank weapons (that are only good against lighter vehicles.

Stormtalon Gunship: B Tier: This is the ground attack version of the Stormhawk, and it's probably better most of the time despite costing a little bit more.

Stormraven Gunship: C Tier: The flying brick is still a bit expensive, especially once you fill it with stuff. If you put it in hover, it will get focused down and killed, but if you run it like a normal aircraft, you won't be unloading the contents most likely until turn 3. Perhaps there is a way to make it work, and its firepower is decent.

Ravenwing Dark Talon: C Tier: It has decent guns, but it's way too expensive.

Nephilim Jetfighter: C Tier: Also too expensive despite having good weapons.

Hammerfall Bunker: C Tier: Probably terrain-dependent, and overpriced, but putting 6 Heavy Bolter shots into your opponent's units on their turn could be funny at least.


Not a lot of stuff is D Tier; there just isn't a lot of total garbage, and that's saying something for a roster as deep as Marines. A lot of C-tier stuff is fairly niche and will get frozen out by the better stuff though. As far as detachments, I think the Gladius is very powerful, but the Unforgiven Task Force has some interesting tech as well. Probably different playstyles for each detachment, and some units might be better or worse in each.

My armies (re-counted and updated on 11/1/23, including modeled wargear options):
Dark Angels: ~15000 Astra Militarum: ~1200 | Adeptus Custodes: ~1900 | Imperial Knights: ~2000 | Sisters of Battle: ~3500 | Leagues of Votann: ~1200 | Tyranids: ~2600 | Stormcast Eternals: ~5000
Check out my P&M Blogs: ZergSmasher's P&M Blog | Imperial Knights blog | Board Games blog | Total models painted in 2023: 40 | Total models painted in 2024: 25 | Current main painting project: Kruleboyz Spearhead
 Mr_Rose wrote:
Who doesn’t love crazy mutant squawk-puppies? Eh? Nobody, that’s who.
 
   
Made in fi
Locked in the Tower of Amareo





For impulsor helllblasters. And don't come out. Shoot with firing deck. Mw'sto impulsor over dead helllblasters.

2024 painted/bought: 109/109 
   
Made in us
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain






A Protoss colony world

tneva82 wrote:
For impulsor helllblasters. And don't come out. Shoot with firing deck. Mw'sto impulsor over dead helllblasters.

I have heard of doing this as a cheap trick to battle-shock a unit in order to proc some of the cool effects from the various Enhancements and Stratagems in the Unforgiven detachment, since when a transport dies the unit inside is automatically Battle-shocked.

My armies (re-counted and updated on 11/1/23, including modeled wargear options):
Dark Angels: ~15000 Astra Militarum: ~1200 | Adeptus Custodes: ~1900 | Imperial Knights: ~2000 | Sisters of Battle: ~3500 | Leagues of Votann: ~1200 | Tyranids: ~2600 | Stormcast Eternals: ~5000
Check out my P&M Blogs: ZergSmasher's P&M Blog | Imperial Knights blog | Board Games blog | Total models painted in 2023: 40 | Total models painted in 2024: 25 | Current main painting project: Kruleboyz Spearhead
 Mr_Rose wrote:
Who doesn’t love crazy mutant squawk-puppies? Eh? Nobody, that’s who.
 
   
Made in ca
Secretive Dark Angels Veteran



Canada

Thanks for taking the time to get this one started Zerg!

I played a 2000 point game yesterday - my first 10th Ed game. I took a grab-bag of units to get a feel.

Azrael with a ten-man Hellblaster Squad and a Primaris Apothecary took out a Vindicator on Turn 1, with Oath of Moment helping overcome the higher toughness of vehicles compared to 8th and 9th. I also rolled five 1s on the Hazardous check and lost half the squad in that volley. The rest of the squad got shot off the board the next turn, although Azrael was left standing. Off to a good start!

Belial with a squad of Deathwing Knights turned the tide of the game, rolling several enemy squads and characters along the way. They even took down a Predator (Oaths helps). They are not amazing against tanks anymore, but when they get a hit through it counts.

A squadron of Ravenwing Black Knights did great work. They even chipped some wounds off a tank in melee to help out the Deathwing Knights.

I used an Unforgiven detachment. I never failed a Battleshock test, but there was a point in Turn 3 when I had three under-half squads on objectives. With Grim Resolve I didn't have to worry about Battleshock and scoring, so it could be impactful.

I used Grim Retribution once, but its quite niche since its after the enemy's shots have been resolved.

Azrael was a beat-stick in melee, and his shooting against infantry was also strong.

Next I will run Belial with a Deathwing Command Squad and some Deathwing Knights, supported by some guns.

All you have to do is fire three rounds a minute, and stand 
   
Made in fr
Locked in the Tower of Amareo





 ZergSmasher wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
For impulsor helllblasters. And don't come out. Shoot with firing deck. Mw'sto impulsor over dead helllblasters.

I have heard of doing this as a cheap trick to battle-shock a unit in order to proc some of the cool effects from the various Enhancements and Stratagems in the Unforgiven detachment, since when a transport dies the unit inside is automatically Battle-shocked.


Hmm didn't think that(da isn't my marine faction). More of keep Hellblasters alive shooting as many times as possible.

Hellblaster that doesn't die to hazardous is hellblaster that can shoot next turn 3mw on #mpulsor is less of issue for me than dead hellalaster.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/06/19 04:58:17


2024 painted/bought: 109/109 
   
Made in us
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain






A Protoss colony world

Thanks for the game summary TTB! Sounds like Deathwing are gonna come out swinging, especially with Oaths of Moment helping out. I actually theorycrafted a Ravenwing list a little earlier, haven't had a chance to play a game of 10th just yet:
The list:
Unforgiven Task Force
Sammael (warlord)
6-man Ravenwing Command Squad (Sammy goes here)
6 Bikes + Attack Bike: 2x Meltagun, Multimelta on AB, Storm Bolter on Sarge
Chaplain on Bike: Stubborn Tenacity enhancement (goes with Bikes above)
6 Ravenwing Black Knights
Captain on Bike: Relic Weapon, Relic Shield, Heavenfall Blade enhancement (goes with Black Knights)
6 Outriders + Invader ATV w/Multimelta
3 Attack Bikes: 3x Multimelta
3 Bikes: 2x Meltagun, Combi-weapon on Sarge
Ravenwing Land Speeder Vengeance
Land Speeder Tornado: Multimelta, Assault Cannon
Land Speeder Tornado: Multimelta, Assault Cannon
1995 points

My armies (re-counted and updated on 11/1/23, including modeled wargear options):
Dark Angels: ~15000 Astra Militarum: ~1200 | Adeptus Custodes: ~1900 | Imperial Knights: ~2000 | Sisters of Battle: ~3500 | Leagues of Votann: ~1200 | Tyranids: ~2600 | Stormcast Eternals: ~5000
Check out my P&M Blogs: ZergSmasher's P&M Blog | Imperial Knights blog | Board Games blog | Total models painted in 2023: 40 | Total models painted in 2024: 25 | Current main painting project: Kruleboyz Spearhead
 Mr_Rose wrote:
Who doesn’t love crazy mutant squawk-puppies? Eh? Nobody, that’s who.
 
   
Made in hk
Regular Dakkanaut





TangoTwoBravo wrote:



Belial with a squad of Deathwing Knights turned the tide of the game, rolling several enemy squads and characters along the way. They even took down a Predator (Oaths helps). They are not amazing against tanks anymore, but when they get a hit through it counts.



Curious whether you ran the Deathwing Knights as a squad of 10 or 5 was enough?
   
Made in us
Agile Revenant Titan




Florida

Played my first two games over the weekend; 2000 points DA vs BA. I used the Gladius Detachment and my opponent used the BA Detachment.

Azrael
Primaris Librarian with Bolter Discipline enhancement
Primaris Lieutenant

2 x 5 Infiltrators
2 x 3 Inceptors (Plasma)
2 x 3 Eradicators
1 x 10 Desolators
1 x 5 DW Knights
1 x 1 Land Raider
1 x 10 Hellblasters

Game 1 could be renamed 'Desolators Dominate'. I went first and the 10 Desolators aided by Bolter Discipline, Dev. Doctrine, and Oath of Moment eliminated 10 JP DC Marines leaving Lemartes alone. Turn 2 had the Desolators pick up 10 Sanguinary Guard leaving Dante alone. We called the game.

Game 2 was closer after my opponent swapped out the two expensive units for Impulsors with assault styled infantry. A few takeaways pertaining to 10th edition rules.

-Land Raider can get a cover save; combine with Armor of Contempt (-1 AP) and it was fairly durable.

-Overwatch. I was able to fire overwatch against units I could not see via indirect fire. Not sure if the rule worked this way in 9th, but the overwatch caveats are (1) target within 24" and (2) unit must be eligible to shoot. Desolators could fire indirect. Clearly, the shooting is not as effective but it still throws a lot of firepower downrange. The Blast keyword is big. A 10 strong unit shooting at a 10 strong unit adds 20 shots because of Blast keyword. 10d3 + 20 Castellan shots and 10d6 (Frag d6+1) + 10 + 20 shots. *Of note*. With Oath of Moment and Bolter Discipline, this unit takes a lot of time to fire; so many dice to roll/reroll and add up all the extra hits!

-DW Knights -1 damage and 4 wounds were very significant in game 2. They utilized Rapid Ingress and ultimately destroyed
5 Death Company
1 Techmarine
5 Infiltrators
1 Impulsor

On paper, I was not impressed with the AP1, but the number of attacks really offset the AP.

I need more games with the Hellblasters as I felt I did not play them very well. I attached Azrael and Primaris LT to them. I didn't get to use them in game 1 and they felt wasted in game 2.

interesting games and looking foward to playing more.


No earth shattering, thought provoking quote. I'm just someone who was introduced to 40K in the late 80's and it's become a lifelong hobby. 
   
Made in ca
Secretive Dark Angels Veteran



Canada

 Smirrors wrote:
TangoTwoBravo wrote:



Belial with a squad of Deathwing Knights turned the tide of the game, rolling several enemy squads and characters along the way. They even took down a Predator (Oaths helps). They are not amazing against tanks anymore, but when they get a hit through it counts.



Curious whether you ran the Deathwing Knights as a squad of 10 or 5 was enough?


I ran the Deathwing Knights as a five-man squad with Belial attached. I had a Land Raider Crusader in the list as their ride, but once I saw the board, mission and opponent I opted to Deep Strike them.

A squad of ten would be a huge investment - almost 25% of the list. The five-man squad did great work, but one failed 9" charge out of Deepstrike and they are just sitting around for two turns. Their low AP means that enemy Terminators etc will just pop "Armour of Contempt" to weather the Maces. I avoided my opponent's Redemptors, which I would not have done in 9th. I am going to keep working with them, though, because they can bull through the enemy's backline and not have to worry about Battleshock when they take an objective.

All you have to do is fire three rounds a minute, and stand 
   
Made in us
Agile Revenant Titan




Florida

Rapid Ingress is a great utility stratagem and greatly helped me weigh the option of a 9" charge from Deep Strike.

As it is at the end of your opponent's movement phase, you have clear vision of potential threats and where you can expect your unit nees to go. This had my DW Knights clean up a flank in my second game.

No earth shattering, thought provoking quote. I'm just someone who was introduced to 40K in the late 80's and it's become a lifelong hobby. 
   
Made in hk
Regular Dakkanaut





Sarigar wrote:

Game 1 could be renamed 'Desolators Dominate'. I went first and the 10 Desolators aided by Bolter Discipline, Dev. Doctrine, and Oath of Moment eliminated 10 JP DC Marines leaving Lemartes alone. Turn 2 had the Desolators pick up 10 Sanguinary Guard leaving Dante alone. We called the game.


Once you play Desolators, you could take any chapter and it will be efficient. So many rules stacking and then blast pushes them over.

Those will be the first units to get rules adjustment and it will be Inceptors 2.0 all over again.

I would be interested in your experiences without them if you ever get the chance.
   
Made in us
Agile Revenant Titan




Florida

 Smirrors wrote:
Sarigar wrote:

Game 1 could be renamed 'Desolators Dominate'. I went first and the 10 Desolators aided by Bolter Discipline, Dev. Doctrine, and Oath of Moment eliminated 10 JP DC Marines leaving Lemartes alone. Turn 2 had the Desolators pick up 10 Sanguinary Guard leaving Dante alone. We called the game.


Once you play Desolators, you could take any chapter and it will be efficient. So many rules stacking and then blast pushes them over.

Those will be the first units to get rules adjustment and it will be Inceptors 2.0 all over again.

I would be interested in your experiences without them if you ever get the chance.



Game 2 was a vastly different game as my opponent swapped the expensive units out for MSU and Impulsors. Desolation squad had less impact as a result. The unit plays very well into those larger squads and Oath of the Moment really shines against big expensive units.

Desolation squads may well be adjusted but it took my opponent one game to work around their strengths. IE: Don't go out and buy 30 of them....

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/06/20 17:50:14


No earth shattering, thought provoking quote. I'm just someone who was introduced to 40K in the late 80's and it's become a lifelong hobby. 
   
Made in us
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain






A Protoss colony world

Apparently someone did get a top 4 with Dark Angels this past weekend:

https://www.goonhammer.com/competitive-termination-of-9th-edition-dawn-of-10th/

Basically the list consisted of The Lion, the full Deathwing Command Squad with Belial and a Strikemaster attached, 2 full Desolation Squads, 3 Whirlwinds, and some scouts as filler. To me, this list really puts an exclamation point on the fact that indirect fire is a bit too strong in 10th, and that Desolation Marines are too cheap. But then, nearly everything in Aeldari is too cheap for what it does, and they had a lot more top finishes. I sure hope lists like this don't become the norm for us; it just doesn't feel like Dark Angels.

My armies (re-counted and updated on 11/1/23, including modeled wargear options):
Dark Angels: ~15000 Astra Militarum: ~1200 | Adeptus Custodes: ~1900 | Imperial Knights: ~2000 | Sisters of Battle: ~3500 | Leagues of Votann: ~1200 | Tyranids: ~2600 | Stormcast Eternals: ~5000
Check out my P&M Blogs: ZergSmasher's P&M Blog | Imperial Knights blog | Board Games blog | Total models painted in 2023: 40 | Total models painted in 2024: 25 | Current main painting project: Kruleboyz Spearhead
 Mr_Rose wrote:
Who doesn’t love crazy mutant squawk-puppies? Eh? Nobody, that’s who.
 
   
Made in us
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain






A Protoss colony world

As expected, indirect stuff got nerfed across the board. Our Desolation Squads went up 50 points per 5 guys, and Whirlwinds went up by 25 (they are 150 now). Not unexpected and probably good for the health of the game. On the bright side, maybe it'll be a little more viable for us to play a list that looks a little more like Dark Angels and less like Astra Militarum with all the artillery.

My armies (re-counted and updated on 11/1/23, including modeled wargear options):
Dark Angels: ~15000 Astra Militarum: ~1200 | Adeptus Custodes: ~1900 | Imperial Knights: ~2000 | Sisters of Battle: ~3500 | Leagues of Votann: ~1200 | Tyranids: ~2600 | Stormcast Eternals: ~5000
Check out my P&M Blogs: ZergSmasher's P&M Blog | Imperial Knights blog | Board Games blog | Total models painted in 2023: 40 | Total models painted in 2024: 25 | Current main painting project: Kruleboyz Spearhead
 Mr_Rose wrote:
Who doesn’t love crazy mutant squawk-puppies? Eh? Nobody, that’s who.
 
   
Made in us
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain






A Protoss colony world

A Dark Angels list took 2nd place at the Capital City Clash last weekend:

https://www.goonhammer.com/competitive-innovations-in-10th-slain-by-an-elf/

It's not a perfect representation of Dark Angels currently as the event was not using the latest balance changes (so he still had cheap Desolators, but only 10 of them so...eh). Seems that Hellblasters with Azrael are indeed back on the menu, and I'm going to assume the Primaris Apothecary goes with them also to bring them back. I was pretty happy to see a couple of units of Devastators as well; they have some play into the vehicle-heavy lists like Knights.

Still kind of sad we haven't seen any kind of Ravenwing build do well. They're probably getting frozen out by all the indirect stuff in the game, or something. Damn shame, as I love our bikers.

My armies (re-counted and updated on 11/1/23, including modeled wargear options):
Dark Angels: ~15000 Astra Militarum: ~1200 | Adeptus Custodes: ~1900 | Imperial Knights: ~2000 | Sisters of Battle: ~3500 | Leagues of Votann: ~1200 | Tyranids: ~2600 | Stormcast Eternals: ~5000
Check out my P&M Blogs: ZergSmasher's P&M Blog | Imperial Knights blog | Board Games blog | Total models painted in 2023: 40 | Total models painted in 2024: 25 | Current main painting project: Kruleboyz Spearhead
 Mr_Rose wrote:
Who doesn’t love crazy mutant squawk-puppies? Eh? Nobody, that’s who.
 
   
Made in ca
Secretive Dark Angels Veteran



Canada

I have ten real games so far, including a local tournament (40+ players). I am enjoying my Dark Angels! I have, however, moved away from the Unforgiven Detachment and adopted the Gladius Taskforce. I have found that the Unforgiven Stratagems a just a little too situational for my likes, and they don't have the Honour the Chapter Stratagem. Doctrines are just better than Grim Resolve.

Some takeaways:

The Azrael, Primaris Apothecary and a ten Hellblaster unit can do some work, but it has a big target painted on it! Against Space Marines it can deal out some real damage, but it is also a prime Oath of Moment target. Plasma has been reigned in, so I am finding that targets that they would have melted in 8th and 9th Editions are surviving. Vehicles and Dreads are quite resilient against them (Redemptors have given them fits). I have parked them for a bit, but I am not giving up on them.

Ravenwing Black Knights and Ravenwing Command Squads can also do some work, but they also miss old Plasma. I am finding them over-priced, but they can play the mission well. Sammael is fine, and having Sammy with a Ravenwing Command Squad plus a Talonmaster nearby is an expensive but flexible addition to a Greenwing army. Even a single Black Knights Squadron can be a good addition to play the mission or pick off vulnerable units.

At the same time, I am not loving full Ravenwing. The "nerf" to Melta and Ravenwing really hurts against some opponents (any with tanks/dreads/big monsters/Knights). Maybe I need to run it a few more times.

Deathwing Knights are doing real work for me. They are one reason why I have switched to Gladius. They already have Damage Reduction. They suffer from low AP, but in a Gladius Detachment they have access to Honour the Chapter. When they get a charge off they can now do some damage to Dreads, Monsters and Vehicles. I have been running them with a Captain in Terminator Armour to put them in Assault Doctrine every turn to then be able to get the AP bonus from Honour the Chapter. Last week they cleared out a Terminator Squad at the centre of the board, and this week they took down three Custodes Squads with attached Leaders along with Dawn Eagle Jetbikes. Just one extra AP can make all the difference.

I was running Belial for a while, but I find the Captain in Terminator Armour much more useful. In a CP-starved game the ability to have an in-built Charge re-roll plus Rites of Battle is just too good to pass up. Attached to a Deathwing Knights squad, they been killing everything anyway so Precision has not been coming up.

The Lion is very good. He is quite survivable I took him in the tournament (I went 2-1) and he was really effective. He is somewhat "one-note", but he plays that note very well. Put some Bladeguard and Assault Intercessors around him for protection from shooting and he can take and hold an objective against pretty much anything. Over three games, he killed: two Redemptors, a Terminator Squad, two (wounded) Rubric Marines squads with leaders and two beefy Ork mobs. All the while taking objectives and scoring Primary. He is an investment, but I think he is worth it if you build around him.

Anyhoo. For the Lion!




All you have to do is fire three rounds a minute, and stand 
   
Made in us
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain






A Protoss colony world

Good to hear you've been having some success with DA. I have yet to play a game of 10th, but my local play group is starting an escalation league so I should be able to get some games in. Regarding the Hellblaster brick, it's no longer an anti-tank unit, but more of an anti-Elite unit; good for harassing 2W stuff like other Marines, and it can plink away at bigger stuff if needed with Oath of Moment. Agree that the Gladius is just straight up better than the Unforgiven detachment, as its strats are just pretty much always good, and Doctrines seem like they should be game-defining.

For mission play, is there any situation where Black Knights are better than Inceptors? That ability to drop in 3 inches away seems really clutch for mission play, and bikes just can't really do that unless your opponent really messes up.

One list idea I've been considering is a double big brick kind of like Custodes sometimes run, with one 10-man unit of Deathwing Knights, and a 10-man Deathwing Command Squad. Attach characters to each as appropriate (maybe a Strikemaster with Bolter Discipline with the DWCS, and a Terminator Captain in the Knights?), and then fill in the rest of the points with The Lion and some small units for mission/objective play.

My armies (re-counted and updated on 11/1/23, including modeled wargear options):
Dark Angels: ~15000 Astra Militarum: ~1200 | Adeptus Custodes: ~1900 | Imperial Knights: ~2000 | Sisters of Battle: ~3500 | Leagues of Votann: ~1200 | Tyranids: ~2600 | Stormcast Eternals: ~5000
Check out my P&M Blogs: ZergSmasher's P&M Blog | Imperial Knights blog | Board Games blog | Total models painted in 2023: 40 | Total models painted in 2024: 25 | Current main painting project: Kruleboyz Spearhead
 Mr_Rose wrote:
Who doesn’t love crazy mutant squawk-puppies? Eh? Nobody, that’s who.
 
   
Made in ca
Secretive Dark Angels Veteran



Canada

I think that Inceptors will almost always be a good addition to any Dark Angel (or Space Marine) army. They do occupy a somewhat similar role as Ravenwing Black Knights: mobile firepower and Secondary/Mission play. The ability of Inceptors to drop in just outside 3" can be clutch to achieve certain Tactical Objectives since they are so hard to screen out. They are also great at removing Lone Operative models that are holding objectives since they have enough firepower for those kinds of targets. Ravenwing Black Knights have a 5++, though, which means that they generally survive longer.

I have tried the ten-man Deathwing Command Squad brick and it is very hard to shift. Oath of Moment armies, though, can put some damage into it. A list with two such bricks needs some little units to achieve many of the Tactical Objectives and will also need some dedicated anti-tank.

Looking at my notes regarding games (when I took them), I can provide the following thumbnail summaries of some of my games:

Vital Ground vs Tyranids. I went with a First-Borne theme to try out some units and see how the Unforgiven Strats function. I had a ten-man Deathwing Command Squad led by Belial, a five-man Deathwing Terminator Squad, two Tactical Squads, a ten-man Devastator Squad, two Predators, a Whirlwind and a Landspeeder. I took the big Devastator Squad to see how Grim Retribution worked. My opponent had a number of really big bugs and a six Zoanthropes plus little gribblies. I placed all my Terminators in Reserve, which opened my me up to getting knocked off the objectives (including my own). His little stuff really limited by Deep Strike options, and even with Rapid Ingress in the Deathwing Command Squad my heavy-hitters were out of position. I killed lots of things, but I was getting blanked on Primary. The Deathwing Command Squad with Belial, though, killed everything it could reach and stayed around due to Unbreakable Lines when he charged in two big bigs. A disastrous game, but lots of fun and I learned plenty. Grim Retribution didn't really amount to much. I should have started the Deathwing Command Squad on the board and marched up the centre (Dawn of War Deployment). The Tactical Squads hung around for a few turns, but they were totally outmatched by the big bugs coming at them.

Priority Targets vs Tyranids. Again with the big bugs...This time, however, with some prior notice I was letting our TO see some Legends of the Horus Heresy models in action ahead of our tourney where he was going to allow them. I had another full Deathwing Command Squad led by a Librarian, a five-man Deathwing Knights squad, two Tactical Squads, a Landspeeder, a Relic Contemptor Dread, a Deredeo Dreadnought and a Falchion. This was a wild game. I was able to roll 6s on Wound Rolls enough times for the Falchion to lift all his big bugs over the game, while the Deredeo was a more reliable shooter than a Redemptor. My Deathwing Command Squad was let down by their leader, though, since my opponent had a Pschophage. I had used my Watcher in the Dark already when his anti-Psyker got into combat with my Deathwing. My Librarian meant that all of the Psychophage's melee attacks were causing Devastating Wounds on a 2+...Not pretty. My Deathwing Knights did eventually fall on one one flank but they did lots of damage and cleared the road for a 30K style Tactical Squad following them and taking an objective. I lost by two points, though, as he had a Lictor on a distant target and I had no means of getting to it. The Falchion was good fun (for me at least), but what a points sink.

Supply Drop vs Space Wolves. I went back to my roots with a ten-man Hellblaster Squad led by Azrael and a Primaris Apothecary, a ten-man Deathwing Command Squad with Belial, two Bike Squadrons, a Talonmaster, Infiltrators and a six-man Eradicator Squad (trying out Grim Retribution again). The Space Wolves had Assault Intercessors, Terminators, Outriders, a Redemptor, Longfangs and a Razorback (and some other stuff). The big Hellblaster squad dealt plenty of damage and hung around for the game, although they were worn down by firepower/Oath of Moment. The Deathwing Command Squad pushed into his deployment zone, controlling the centre as they went. The Eradicators killed the Redemptor and then ineffectually chased the Terminators around - but kept them busy nonetheless. A win for the Dark Angels.

Tourney Game 1. The TO was still good with Legends after our game, so I decided to let the Falchion roll again. My Lion also finally arrived the week before the tourney. So half of my army was in two models. I added Azrael with the big Hellblaster Squad for good measure. With my few remaining points I added two small Bladeguard Squads, two Infiltrator Squads, Scout Snipers, a small Bike Squad an a Landspeeder. My first game was against Iron Hands in Priority Targets. He had two Vindicators, two Redemptors, a Terminator Squad and Intercessors to fill out the list (plus two Landspeeders). The Falchion picked up both Vindicators in the bottom of Round 1 (main gun on one, laser destroyers on the other), but was in turn killed by the two Redemptors despite using such defensive strats as I could. The Lion took one and then the other Redemptor while the Hellblasters neutralized his infantry (and were killed in the process). I squeezed out a narrow victory.

Tourney Game 2. This was against Thousand Sons who had three big Rubric Squads, a big Terminator Squad, two Hellbrutes and a Predator plus a smaller Terminator Squad. Lines of sight were tough through the centre of the board and my Falchion could not really move (too big to fit), but it wiped his big stuff and influenced where his Terminators would go. The Hellblasters and Terminators traded shots while the Lion strolled up with Bladeguard and controlled the centre of the board. Another narrow win for the Dark Angels.

Tourney Game 3. Went up against Orks with lots of Trukks and those squig-rider dudes. While my wonky list had worked well against elite armies, this would be a real challenge. This was also a rather chill game for a final round with two undefeated high scoring armies, and we took our time talking about the game as we went (we know each other well). We timed out after his third turn (he went first), so we scored up my Turn 3 Primary and called it a game. I was down to the Lion and the Falchion and he had some little squads (including Grots) spread around. The Falchion, Hellblasters, and Lion were really overkill/inefficient in the match-up but better target selection early might have helped. I also spent a CP on overwatch for my Hellblasters instead of saving it for Armour of Contempt which might have saved them against all those -1 attacks.

2:1 was better than I had expected for my list, and I wouldn't recommend a Falchion. Two Lancers would be better and leave points for a crowd-control unit. Azrael and the Lion was also overkill. Still, a tourney is a good way to learn about a list, and one thing that I learned was that I wanted Doctrines...

Deploy Servo Skulls against Salamanders. I had switched to Gladius here, opting for Belial with a Command Squad, Deathwing Knights, a Predator, a Redemptor, two Infiltrator Squads, a big Ravenwing Command Squad with Sammael, Outriders, a Land Speeder Vengeance and some Scout Snipers. He had an Executioner, a big squad of Infernus Marines, Sternguard, a Redemptor, Eliminators with a Phobos Librarian, Terminators and a big squad of Bladeguard with a Judiciar. He deployed well forward, and I had first turn. I went all-in up the middle, killing his Bladeguard and Sternguard with massed firepower. He lifted my Redemptor with his firepower, but his charge with his Terminators into my Deathwing Knights didn't go well, especially with the Deathwing Command Squad intervening. By the end of my Turn 2 he had the Executioner and a Dreadnought remaining. His deployment was, in my view, too exposed and I think he picked the wrong Oath target (he picked the Redemptor instead of the Deathwing Knights). The Gladius choice went well, and I enjoyed having Doctrines.

I also played in a Teams game with Admech against Custodes (we were prepping for an upcoming Tag-Team tourney. I went all Deathwing under Gladius with a Captain in Terminator Armour. The Deathwing Knights were money against Custodes. That squad with the Captain took down over half of the Custodes's army.

All you have to do is fire three rounds a minute, and stand 
   
Made in us
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain






A Protoss colony world

I finally, FINALLY, got to play a 10th edition game, with my Dark Angels, earlier this evening. My opponent was running Tau. I ended up losing basically by just not having enough stuff on the table to score any secondaries, which is the final nail in the coffin for my double big brick idea. I won't go into detail about the game, as I'm sure both my opponent and I did some things wrong (we're both pretty new to the edition), but I do have a few takeaways from this first game.
-As I mentioned, two big bricks is too many. Our terminators are too expensive for it. I found myself rather thin on the ground pretty quickly, and two units, even big thicc ones like DWK and DWCS, just can't hold that much ground.
-Related to the above, I'm not sure which big brick is better. The Knights are tankier, but they are more expensive and can't shoot and thus won't get to interact with the game as much. They are very hard to clear unless your opponent can get some mortal wounds into them though. More testing is definitely required.
-Desolation Marines are pretty gross, especially with Oath of Moment. Obviously a good move would be to run a big brick of 10 with a Librarian bringing Bolter Discipline, but even little units of 5 (I had 2 such units in my list) can do work.
-Inceptors dropping in and doing secondaries is a great little trick. I'd make room for at least one unit in every Marine list, but I don't think I'd run a big blob as they just don't shoot that hard anymore.
-The Deathwing Strikemaster is great; Lethal Hits is good on any Terminator unit, especially since they can't carry big anti-tank (Cyclones aren't what they used to be). I imagine with the DWK it would be really effective at letting that unit punch harder into big stuff like Knights that they might otherwise struggle with.
-Lion is pretty beastly, but if you let him get shot at eventually you will fail your 3++ against a big gun and he'll get splattered. Don't ask how I know this...

My armies (re-counted and updated on 11/1/23, including modeled wargear options):
Dark Angels: ~15000 Astra Militarum: ~1200 | Adeptus Custodes: ~1900 | Imperial Knights: ~2000 | Sisters of Battle: ~3500 | Leagues of Votann: ~1200 | Tyranids: ~2600 | Stormcast Eternals: ~5000
Check out my P&M Blogs: ZergSmasher's P&M Blog | Imperial Knights blog | Board Games blog | Total models painted in 2023: 40 | Total models painted in 2024: 25 | Current main painting project: Kruleboyz Spearhead
 Mr_Rose wrote:
Who doesn’t love crazy mutant squawk-puppies? Eh? Nobody, that’s who.
 
   
Made in us
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain






A Protoss colony world

In case anyone here missed it, Goonhammer did a Competitive Faction Focus for Dark Angels recently:

https://www.goonhammer.com/10th-edition-competitive-faction-focus-dark-angels/

One surprising take from them is that the Lion might not be an optimal pick for most lists, simply because he doesn't control enough board space for what he costs, and he isn't as durable as you think, 3++ and -1 to wound be damned. I have to admit, he's a huge points sink and often won't get to kill anything juicy because opponents can just play around him. I personally want to keep running him because I've been waiting for him to get 40k rules since they started bringing Primarchs back, but he might indeed not be optimal.

My armies (re-counted and updated on 11/1/23, including modeled wargear options):
Dark Angels: ~15000 Astra Militarum: ~1200 | Adeptus Custodes: ~1900 | Imperial Knights: ~2000 | Sisters of Battle: ~3500 | Leagues of Votann: ~1200 | Tyranids: ~2600 | Stormcast Eternals: ~5000
Check out my P&M Blogs: ZergSmasher's P&M Blog | Imperial Knights blog | Board Games blog | Total models painted in 2023: 40 | Total models painted in 2024: 25 | Current main painting project: Kruleboyz Spearhead
 Mr_Rose wrote:
Who doesn’t love crazy mutant squawk-puppies? Eh? Nobody, that’s who.
 
   
Made in ca
Secretive Dark Angels Veteran



Canada

A good article from Goonhammer - thanks for posting the link!

I played the first round of a League today, having submitted the list a little while ago. The list is:

Belial
Captain in Terminator Armour
Deathwing Knights (ten man)
Deathwing Command Squad (five man)
Gladiator Lancer
Redemptor Dreadnought
Scout Snipers
2 x Infiltrator Squads
2 x Scout Squads (each with a shotgun)
2 x Plasma Inceptors (three man squads)
2 x Attack Bikes

First round was Take and Hold on the Search and Destroy Map against Astra Militarum. He had three infantry squads (20 men each), 1 x Tank Commander, 2 x Leman Russ, 1 x Leman Russ Executioner, 2 x Scout Sentinel units, 3 x Basilisk.

I set up my Infiltrators near the flanking objectives in No-Mans Land with the Deathwing Knights ready to go up the middle. I had Scouts set up to enable various Tactical Missions with Scout Snipers holding my home objective. The Deathwing Command would deep strike along with the Inceptors. He got first turn. His fire into the Deathwing Knights was neutered by Armour of Contempt and their inate Damage Reduction, but my left wing crumpled. My counter-punch was lack-lustre, but my Deathwing Knights miraculously made their advance and charge against the AM squad that had moved up to hold the centre objective. The AM squad was turned into pink mist and bonechips.

I had reinforced my left wing with the Attack Bikes, which were cleared off by his fire in Turn 2. They soaked up a lot of shots along the way, though, with some clutch saves. I drew Secure No Mans's Land and Tempting Target. He selected my right wing No-Mans-Land objective since I could have simply dropped an Inceptor squad onto the left. My right flank objective was held by Scout Sentinels, a Leman Russ and a big AM squad. I threw everything into it, and when the dust settled the left flank was mine (the DW Knights cleared out another big infantry squad).

In Turn 3 he brought back a 20 strong squad as Reinforcements into my now mostly empty backfield along with having drawn the Tactical Objective of taking an objective in the enemy's deployment zone. Things looked tense, but he failed his charge. The day was then saved by a Scout Squad of my own coming in from Strategic Reserves along with some small arms fire. The rest of the game was mopping up as my DW Knights and Redemptor reached his lines.

100 to 48 win for the Dark Angels.

This list had lots of "tech", and the Infiltrators, Scouts and Scout Snipers were great utility. I was worried about the DW Knights mobility with the Basilisk debuff, but Doctrines and the Captain helped mitigate that. The mission map also helped with them starting up front and centre. The Inceptors were useful. The Attack Bikes failed to do much, but they did eat a lot of fire in Turn 2. So that is something and the list needed some mobility.

I can't adjust the list (winning lists have to stay the same) so we'll see what Round 2 brings.


All you have to do is fire three rounds a minute, and stand 
   
Made in us
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain






A Protoss colony world

Nice write-up! I myself am in an escalation league and played my first 500-point game yesterday. We are using the Combat Patrol maps, but with the full tactical objectives and rules for 500 points. There will be a total of two games played at each 500-point increment (so 500, 1000, 1500, and 2000) for a total of 8 games. For the first game I took a Primaris Lieutenant with Bolter Discipline and attached him to a 10-man Hellblaster squad, which only left me enough points for a 5-man Intercessor squad and an Attack Bike. I got matched up against Genestealer Cults with a couple of small Acolyte units (one of which had a Primus attached), a unit of Atalan Jackals with an Alphus, a Ridgerunner, and a Reductus Saboteur. I managed to pull the game out thanks to the power of Hellblasters shooting back when they die. I was tabled at the end of turn 5, but was pretty well ahead on points. Oath of Moment is crazy good in smaller games, and Intercessors' sticky objectives thing really came in clutch.

My armies (re-counted and updated on 11/1/23, including modeled wargear options):
Dark Angels: ~15000 Astra Militarum: ~1200 | Adeptus Custodes: ~1900 | Imperial Knights: ~2000 | Sisters of Battle: ~3500 | Leagues of Votann: ~1200 | Tyranids: ~2600 | Stormcast Eternals: ~5000
Check out my P&M Blogs: ZergSmasher's P&M Blog | Imperial Knights blog | Board Games blog | Total models painted in 2023: 40 | Total models painted in 2024: 25 | Current main painting project: Kruleboyz Spearhead
 Mr_Rose wrote:
Who doesn’t love crazy mutant squawk-puppies? Eh? Nobody, that’s who.
 
   
Made in fr
Locked in the Tower of Amareo





There's reason why oath is weaker version in combat patrol

2024 painted/bought: 109/109 
   
Made in de
Stalwart Dark Angels Space Marine





Germany

I managed to get my hands on a Stormraven at a reasonable price, and am wondering how to best use it.
I like the idea of filling it up with some Deathwing Knights, hooking up a Redemptor and yeeting the whole thing forward.
In hovermode there should be a reasonable chance to hide it from getting alpha'd if the opponent gets first turn. With a 20 inch movement it should be possible to get it somewhere good, and the whole lot of them being all -1 damage should be able to cause some headaches.
Obvious drawback, that's 40% of the army right there, just over 800 points if a character in tda joins the Knights.

Not sure what else should go with it either, besides some utility units like Infiltrators and Inceptors. Get some heavy fire power and have the Stormraven and friends hold up the enemy as long as possible? Some more mobile units to support them as needed? Another big and tough units to shove on an objective and challenge?

Is that even something that can work at all, or am I vastly overestimating how far the -1 damage goes?
   
Made in ca
Secretive Dark Angels Veteran



Canada

I have a Stormraven as well and I am afraid that it does not leave the hangar. Your DW Knights and Redemptor cannot charge if they disembark after the Stormraven moves, so I am not sure what is gained? The DW Knights could just deepstrike. I suppose they could stay in the Stormraven to and rely on it’s own resilience, disembark st the start of the next turn and then move/charge. I would just as soon use a Landraider, but perhaps the Stormraven play could catch an opponent off-guard?

I guess give it a whirl and let us know! Actual tabletop trumps theory! You should certainly put a character in with them. My go-to has been a Captain in Terminator Armour.

I think that to support that you need cheap board presence (Infiltrators) along with some longer ranged firepower like a Lancer etc. An Inceptor Squad could also be good to drop in with the DW Knights.

All you have to do is fire three rounds a minute, and stand 
   
Made in us
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain






A Protoss colony world

If I wasn't starting my DWK on the table, I would just Rapid Ingress them rather than put them in a Stormraven or even a Land Raider.

My armies (re-counted and updated on 11/1/23, including modeled wargear options):
Dark Angels: ~15000 Astra Militarum: ~1200 | Adeptus Custodes: ~1900 | Imperial Knights: ~2000 | Sisters of Battle: ~3500 | Leagues of Votann: ~1200 | Tyranids: ~2600 | Stormcast Eternals: ~5000
Check out my P&M Blogs: ZergSmasher's P&M Blog | Imperial Knights blog | Board Games blog | Total models painted in 2023: 40 | Total models painted in 2024: 25 | Current main painting project: Kruleboyz Spearhead
 Mr_Rose wrote:
Who doesn’t love crazy mutant squawk-puppies? Eh? Nobody, that’s who.
 
   
Made in us
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain






A Protoss colony world

So, how did DA do with the dataslate? Here are my hot takes, apply a liberal dose of salt as needed:
-Deathwing Knights stayed the same, but they are still one of the most durable units in the game so that's probably okay and they will still be taken. I just hope they don't get the Custodes treatment eventually and get restricted to 5-man units.
-Our other Terminators got slightly cheaper, but not by a huge amount. DWCS were already an interesting unit. Regular Deathwing Terminators might not be taken anymore unless you just want to throw a couple of Storm Shields into your shooty units, as the Watcher in the Dark's benefit no longer protects against Devastating Wounds. Regular SM Terminator Squads might be better due to their teleport homers and still being cheaper than DW Termies.
-Azrael and most of our other named characters got cheaper somehow. Indeed, with the changes to free strats only applying to Battle Tactics, Azzy might become an auto-include just for the extra CP.
-Lion actually got worse, as one of his buffs is a bubble of 4+++ vs. mortals, which with the changes to Dev Wounds no longer matters as much. Plus he didn't get a points cut at all (not that he needed one). He's certainly still good, but honestly I was starting to waver about his usefulness before the dataslate and nothing in it has made me more confident that he's tournament competitive.
-Regarding Ravenwing, most of it got cheaper or stayed the same. Black Knights got a tiny points cut that only matters if you're playing multiple units. RWCS did better and might actually be playable now especially with some changes to other armies and the core rules. Speeder Vengeances stayed the same, as did Darkshrouds and the planes (why?!), so that's a wash. Outriders and their ATV buddies got a decent points cut, so maybe they are viable now. Storm Speeders got more expensive, which is reasonable for their utility. Ultimately I think Ravenwing is in a better place than it was before, but I'm still not sold on the viability of a pure Ravenwing list. Maybe we can take a few more of them than before and not feel bad though.
-Desolation Marines are history. 200 points for a unit of 5 (with no option to take 10 anymore) has finally coffined these guys. And that's a good thing for the game, as they were warping the meta in a bad way. Dark Angels were using them just as much as the other Marines, so it does affect us at least somewhat. Like other Marines, we'll probably just pivot to Whirlwinds for our indirect fire needs.
-The three Primaris Dreadnoughts (Brutalis, Ballistus, Redemptor) are all looking pretty spicy now, as they all got decent points drops. Not sure how much that benefits DA specifically, but I figure it was worth mentioning. Classic box dreads also got a price cut, but they're still trash.
-Similar to the above, Aggressors look like they are absolutely priced to move now. A unit of 6 with an Apothecary Biologis and Bolter Discipline might be a great answer to certain matchups, especially riding in a Land Raider Redeemer.
-Most of the Battleline stuff got cheaper. Tacticals are now 160 for 10 guys, but honestly they are still not good as you're still bringing along 7 bolter dudes you'd rather not be stuck with. Intercessors seem a little better than before, as their sticky objective thing is still solid and their main competition (Infiltrators) got more expensive. Heavy and Assault Intercessors got a little cheaper as well and might be worth another look now.
-Other little utility stuff got slight drops. Infernus and Incursor Squads got tiny drops (just 1 ppm for each); not sure they'll see any more play than they do now. Eliminators look interesting at 75 points; the question is whether to take the BSRs for character hunting or Las Fusils to attack elite infantry/light vehicles. Reivers got slightly cheaper, but I still don't think they get there as they are just so pillow-fisted.
-Regarding our general melee stuff, Vanguard Veterans with Jump Packs are now, amusingly, cheaper than footslogging ones (and cheaper than JP Assault Marines), and are actually starting to look interesting as a bully unit to harass smaller stuff trying to do actions/hold objectives. Bladeguard are now fairly spicy, and a unit of 6 with a Judiciar clocks in at 255 points and can sit on an objective and dare anybody to come try to take them off of it. Sure, the opponent can just shoot them off, but every gun spent killing those guys isn't pointed at the rest of your army. Alternatively, stick Lazarus with a squad of Bladeguard and use them to attack elite infantry; Lazarus makes them fight on death (on a 4+ roll), so even if they die they might get plenty of licks in. You could also stick in a Bladeguard Ancient to give them more attacks for a phase, and extra OC to flip objectives (note you can't take the Ancient with the Judiciar unfortunately).
-I don't know how many DA players were using the various tanks before, but some of them got cheaper while others got more expensive. Vindicators have me raising an eyebrow at 190 (I personally don't own any though), and the price increase to Gladiator Lancers makes me glad I didn't commit to buying any (they are possibly still good though). Ballistus Dreads are probably one of our best sources of ranged anti-tank now.
-I'm somewhat baffled that none of the aircraft got cheaper (DA specific or vanilla SM). Aircraft are already hard to use in 10th (either wait until turn 2 to come in or play like a tank) and they cost a lot for the privilege. I suppose they are paying for their sins in editions past.
-Regarding the core rule changes, the changes to Towering can only help us as we don't have any Towering stuff ourselves. I think it really helps make bike strategies viable as bikes tend to be more expensive than other units due to their mobility, and you really don't want them to just die in your deployment zone because you ran out of places to hide them. Captains got a lot weaker thanks to the changes to free strats, but it it notable that in the Unforgiven Task Force detachment four of the six stratagems are Battle Tactics and therefore usable with Captains (compared to three from the Gladius). I'm not sure it makes that detachment better than the Gladius as the Enhancements from the UTF are just trash compared to the Gladius ones and Grim Resolve will never be as useful as Doctrines, but it is something to consider. Then again, with Insane Bravery being limited to once per game, Battleshock might matter more and it could be useful for Battleshocked units to still be able to hold objectives (particularly in matchups like Chaos Knights that force a lot of tests with modifiers).

Those are my opinions and thoughts on the changes, how do you guys feel about Dark Angels now that the meta has been shaken up?

My armies (re-counted and updated on 11/1/23, including modeled wargear options):
Dark Angels: ~15000 Astra Militarum: ~1200 | Adeptus Custodes: ~1900 | Imperial Knights: ~2000 | Sisters of Battle: ~3500 | Leagues of Votann: ~1200 | Tyranids: ~2600 | Stormcast Eternals: ~5000
Check out my P&M Blogs: ZergSmasher's P&M Blog | Imperial Knights blog | Board Games blog | Total models painted in 2023: 40 | Total models painted in 2024: 25 | Current main painting project: Kruleboyz Spearhead
 Mr_Rose wrote:
Who doesn’t love crazy mutant squawk-puppies? Eh? Nobody, that’s who.
 
   
Made in ca
Secretive Dark Angels Veteran



Canada

I took part in a "Tag Team" tournament over the week consisting of five rounds. A team consisted of four players, each bringing a self-contained 1000 point list. Teams would then play each other, but with team captains assigned two players to fight each battle (so 2 x 2v2). You had to team-up with each team-mate at least once before you could repeat a pairing. We had our own pool of CP, but things like Overwatch were still once per Turn. Buffs could only apply to the 1000 point force, but the other tag-team partner was considered "friendly models" regardless of faction. So a bit wacky, but also a fun test of the dataslate.

I took Dark Angels in Gladius, while my teammates were Necrons, Drukhari and Admech. I unleashed my inner-Timmy and my list consisted of:

Azrael
Primaris Lieutenant with Bolter Discipline (a bit redundant with Azrael, but Critical Hits on 5s in Devastator does pair well with Azrael's extra CP and invul save for the group).
10 x Hellblasters
Captain in Terminator Armour
5 x Deathwing Knights
5 x Infiltrators
5 x Infiltrators

Game 1 - Civil War. With nine teams playing there was a Civil War table where the Team would pair-off against itself. We drew that first, which was great since it let us get used to the Dataslate changes in a chill environment. I was paired with Necrons who had a big brick of Lychguard with a Transcendent C'tan. The Deathwing Knights and Lychguard owned the centre of the board. The Hellblasters killed stuff, but were in turn wiped to a man by a big unit of Kataphron Destroyers. Lesson learned there.

Game 2 - The Ritual on Sweeping Engagement vs Tau and Imperial Knights. I was paired with our Captain's Admech. We lost the roll-off to declare first pair, and that was us. Our opponent put Imperial Knights with Canus Rex, some Armigers and a Vindcaire plus Tau with a Stormsurge, six Crisis Suits and some jumpy characters. My Hellblasters used Devastator Doctrine and a decent advance roll to be in range of the rather incautious Crisis Suit blob. Oath of Moment, ten Hellblasters and a Lieutenant with Bolter Discipline wiped the Crisis suits off the battlefield. They were in turn whittled down by the Armigers and Knight, but they took an Armiger with them. Azrael got sniped by the Vindicaire. Darn. The Deathwing Knights survived a charge by the Knight and then fell back to allow the Kataphrons to finish him off. The Deathwing Knights then killed the Stormsurge in melee. The Hellblasters died in Turn 2, but they did cripple the enemy and it was a rather lop-sided victory.

Game 3 - Scorched Earth on Dawn of War vs Tyranids and Chaos Knights. They had a big melee Knight, three Armigers?Helverins?, two Exocrines and some other bugs. I was paired with Drukhari. The middle was a bit of a killing field, and I was outranged. We went down 53 to 51 in this match, but there was some epic moments. The Hellblasters killed an Armiger and the Knight, but were in turn wiped out by the Exocrines. The Deathwing Knights cleared out some bugs and held an objective, but were slowed by some Barbguants. Azrael died in one-on-one combat with an Armiger-thingy. The Hellblasters can really dish out damage, but they need support from longer-ranged guns. Once the Drukhari boats had been killed we really didn't have an answer to the Exocrines. Epic moment of the game was the Primaris Lieutenant finishing off the Knight with his Bolt Rifle.

Game 4 - Sites of Power on Hammer and Anvil against Khorne and Ultramarines. I was paired with Drukhari again (Day 2 - fresh pairings). They had a Chaos Land Raider, a 10-man Khorne Bezerkers, two units of the big Khorne dudes plus a guy riding a Juggernaught along with a Lancer, an Impulsor, a big Sternguard squad and some Bladeguard. Cover was sparse with only two pieces of Obscuring Terrain in the middle (but in line with each other). They had first turn and it looked grim. The Drukhari boats were smashed and the first squad of those big guys was now quite close to our lines. The Hellblasters took care of them, and two dying Hellblasters finished off the Impulsor. In our Turn 2 the Hellblasters killed the Bezerker squad that had disembarked while the Deathwing Knights deep-struck just outside 9" of the wounded Lancer that was baby-sitting their deployment zone objective after killing our vehicles. A 9" charge killed the Lancer, took the objective and caused a 14 point swing (we had drawn Capture Enemy Outpost). Azrael and the surviving Hellblasters had a crazy run of luck rolling 6s to Overwatch a small Khorne squad to death. This game looked bad at first, but was a low-scoring victory for us. I had thought about using Rapid Ingress, but the lack of Obscuring meant doing so in full view of Sternguard.

Game 5 - Purge the Foe on Crucible of Battle against Astra Militarum and Astra Militarum. I was back with Admech against a Banesword, three Manticores, a bunch of Sentinels and some big squads of infantry. The Destroyers took nine wounds off the Banesword and the Hellblasters did the rest in Turn 1. The rest of the game was mopping up, with Deathwing Knights blending infantry squads while the Infiltrators zoned out our deployment zone from reinforcements. The set-up meant that the Hellblasters could quickly get to the centre and then influence pretty much anywhere (although there was lots of Obscuring).

Takeaways. Tag Team is not really a test of a list but it does give a sense of how units can do.

Azrael with Hellblasters and Primaris Lieutenant with Bolter Discipline. This unit has a big target on it, but it can really dish out damage. The upcoming changes to Oaths will hurt, but Lethals and Sustained on 5s if you keep going into Devastator Doctrine can help mitigate. I suppose an Unforgiven Detachment could use Unforgiven Fury for 1CP to save the points from a Primaris Lieutenant, but you only get the Critical Hits on 5s when someone is Battle Shocked, so its hard to design around. Something to consider I suppose.

The Deathwing Knights with Captain in Terminator Armour were still great after the changes to Free stratagems. I would use one of Azrael's CP to put the Deathwing Knights into Assault Doctrine (if I wasn't) and then use the Captain's free Stratagem on the Battle Tactic of Honour the Chapter.

I have had to rework my list for our league - staying in Gladius. Now running two blocks of ten Hellblasters. One with Azrael and a Primaris Lt, the other with a Primaris Lt with Bolter Discipline. A squad of five Deathwing Knights with the Captain will be there for close in work, while two Predators provide more long-ranged fire support. Two Scout Squads, two Infiltrator Squads, a Scout Sniper Squad and a Phobos Captain will draw Tactical Objective duties and try to have board presence, while a squad of Plasma Inceptors will be my ace in the hole.

All you have to do is fire three rounds a minute, and stand 
   
Made in ca
Secretive Dark Angels Veteran



Canada

Played a league game against Necrons with my 2 x Hellblaster brick supported by Scouts and DW Knights. He had the Silent King, three Monoliths, an Obelisk and some little filler. I usually play Tactical Objectives, but this time I went for Fixed: Bring it Down and Deploy Teleport Homers.

Still using old Oath, the Hellblasters took down a Monolith a turn while the Scouts and Inceptors deployed homers. When he could shoot at my Hellblasters with a Monolith it really hurt, but I tried to use the terrain and strategic reserves to minimize this. The Deathwing Knights took down a Monolith with a charge, but Oath of Moment was critical for this. The DW Knights also died to the Silent King's shooting and melee. I won 83 to 53, but a really tactical game.

I am relying on reviews at this point, but I think that Gladius will still be my "go-to" for Dark Angels with the new Space Marine Codex. New Oath will hurt Hellblasters and Deathwing Knights, so getting Lethal Hits through Lieutenants with Fire Discipline and Strikemasters may be critical to their viability going forward. I think that I might replace my second Hellblaster brick with Eradicators. I will give another look at Deathwing Terminators with Chainfists to have an anti-vehicle punch.

While you would think that the White Scars-themed Detachment would make sense for Ravenwing, I am leaning towards the Salamanders one.

All you have to do is fire three rounds a minute, and stand 
   
Made in us
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain






A Protoss colony world

I just played a 2k-points game today vs. Black Templars. Only my second full 2k game since 10th dropped, so it felt good to be getting a full army on the table. I ran a Gladius Strike Force, and my opponent had the Black Templars detachment (whatever it's called).
My list:
Spoiler:
Characters:
Azrael
Primaris Lieutenant: Power Weapon, Plasma Pistol
Apothecary Biologis: Bolter Discipline
Terminator Captain: Adept of the Codex
Units:
5 Intercessors: Power Weapon
6 Aggressors: Boltstorm Gauntlets/Fragstorm Launchers
10 Deathwing Knights: Watcher in the Dark
10 Hellblasters
3 Inceptors: Plasma Exterminators
3 Inceptors: Plasma Exterminators
Predator Annihilator: 2x Lascannon, Storm Bolter, HK Missile
Land Raider Redeemer: Multimelta, Storm Bolter, HK Missile

My opponent's list, as best I remember it:
Spoiler:
Characters:
High Marshal Helbrecht
Chaplain Grimaldus
Primaris Lieutenant
Primaris Chaplain
Units:
5 Assault Intercessors: Power Fist
5 Heavy Intercessors: Heavy Bolter
10 Primaris Crusader Squad (melee weapons and pyreblaster)
10 Primaris Crusader Squad (don't remember the exact loadout)
10 Sword Brethren (variety of weapons)
5 Incursors
Redemptor Dreadnought: Heavy Plasma Incinerator, Onslaught Gatling Cannon, TL Storm Bolter, Icarus Pod
BT Impulsor: Multi-melta, Bellicatus Missile Array
Land Raider: Multi-melta, Storm Bolter, HK Missile
BT Gladiator Lancer: Multi-melta

I won't go into huge detail in the game, although some of the highlights include me nominating his Land Raider for the first two turns as the Oath target and utterly failing to kill it (Helbrecht, the LT, and the Sword Brethren were inside) with my Predator for two turns (one turn I didn't even dent it except for a couple of cheeky Hellblaster shots, it was wild), and him failing a 7 inch charge with his big Sword Brethren deathstar into my Deathwing Knights, which allowed me to just charge on my turn with Honour the Chapter and wipe the unit (except for Helbrecht, who I might have also picked up if I'd remembered that I had picked that unit with Oath that turn). My opponent was already behind on points at that time, and failing that charge pretty much sealed the deal. We called it at the end of turn 4; I don't remember the scores, but I was pretty far ahead on primary and was about to probably max secondary points.
My takeaways from this game:
-Land Raiders actually feel very tough. They are big enough to hide part of them and claim a cover bonus easily, and Armor of Contempt further increases their durability. I'm super happy to have an excuse to run a Land Raider!
-Losing the wound rerolls on Oath is going to sting pretty hard. They were fairly clutch overall for both players in this game, and I think Hellblasters and Deathwing Knights are going to be far less good without them. Lieutenants may be mandatory for those units now, or else they are only good vs. elite infantry.
-Regardless of what the propaganda has told us about 10th, deathstars are back in a very big way. Both of us had one in our game today, and stuff I'm seeing online is that a lot of lists have one big scary unit with characters that stack buffs on them and good stratagem support. Thankfully we aren't fully back to 7th edition silliness with giant units, but what we have is still pretty scary. When list building, you've definitely got to figure out a way to deal with these big nasty units.
-I'm not sure I'm happy with the Predator. Rerolling 1's for damage did come up and did help a little, but it's still not that many shots. Definitely a bit of a "poor man's Gladiator Lancer", but honestly it's probably worthwhile to bring a Ballistus Dreadnought instead if you can find the points.
-I'll echo TTB above and say that the Gladius is probably still the best detachment for Dark Angels; those doctrines really helped me out in this game. The Unforgiven Task Force is just such a poor substitution (I will be giving that a go in a couple of 1k games later this month for my escalation league), and I'm not sure the other upcoming detachments are as universally good as the Gladius.
-Battleshock is just not a big deal for Marines. Most of the time, my units were either high enough strength as to not have to test, or were killed to a man before they had to test. The few tests I did have to take I passed, and my opponent failed like one for an inconsequential unit.
-Inceptors are probably one of the best mission pieces we have, if not the best. I needed a couple of units to score me Behind Enemy Lines in one turn, so I just dropped both Inceptor squads back there and got my 5 points. Their plasma is nothing to sneeze at either, as with Twin-Linked you can approximate the old Oaths benefit in future if you are shooting at the Oaths target.

My armies (re-counted and updated on 11/1/23, including modeled wargear options):
Dark Angels: ~15000 Astra Militarum: ~1200 | Adeptus Custodes: ~1900 | Imperial Knights: ~2000 | Sisters of Battle: ~3500 | Leagues of Votann: ~1200 | Tyranids: ~2600 | Stormcast Eternals: ~5000
Check out my P&M Blogs: ZergSmasher's P&M Blog | Imperial Knights blog | Board Games blog | Total models painted in 2023: 40 | Total models painted in 2024: 25 | Current main painting project: Kruleboyz Spearhead
 Mr_Rose wrote:
Who doesn’t love crazy mutant squawk-puppies? Eh? Nobody, that’s who.
 
   
 
Forum Index » 40K General Discussion
Go to: