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Not sure if this is the right place to post this:

I'm working on making a mount that would have better swimming speeds. The rules for swimming speed is Strength based and have found nothing to indicate something can swim faster, or slower. Was told this type of ruling of anything swimming faster, or slower, is purely GM discretion, but I know of some GMs that would be rather cruel about players trying to introduce something that would require some rules tweaking or having to develop a new rule outside of the official rulebooks (albeit not unbalanced as best as possible).

My question is, is there any way to indicate that something can swim faster, or slower, in water and have it set as a modular rule to allow for tweaking of said rule in case of any discoverable imbalances, instead of leaving it entirely at the discretion of the GM? Otherwise, can easily see players and GMs getting into super heated arguments, as leaving it entirely up to the GM takes all discussions away from the players, especially as I have been taught in any TTRPG that the rules are not solid set in stone, but more or less guidelines, that if followed as is can lead to fun times, but at the same time if followed strictly as is, does not allow room for any situations that the rules do not account for, such as the above case of not accounting for faster, or slower, swimming speeds.

This is for 40k questions, not the RPGs, but this is your issue:

I know of some GMs that would be rather cruel

Don't play games with TFG. If your GM isn't willing to be reasonable about the subject and use appropriate rules you should tell TFG to off and have fun playing solitaire.

As someone who GMs himself a lot I would propose to just "trade" characteristics. Take a fitting base steed, increase swimming speed by factor X, reduce another characteristic (running speed or hit points for example) by factor X.

Thats's how I have seen it done most of the times.

Kaelgren wrote:
Not sure if this is the right place to post this:

I'm working on making a mount that would have better swimming speeds. The rules for swimming speed is Strength based and have found nothing to indicate something can swim faster, or slower. Was told this type of ruling of anything swimming faster, or slower, is purely GM discretion, but I know of some GMs that would be rather cruel about players trying to introduce something that would require some rules tweaking or having to develop a new rule outside of the official rulebooks (albeit not unbalanced as best as possible).

My question is, is there any way to indicate that something can swim faster, or slower, in water and have it set as a modular rule to allow for tweaking of said rule in case of any discoverable imbalances, instead of leaving it entirely at the discretion of the GM? Otherwise, can easily see players and GMs getting into super heated arguments, as leaving it entirely up to the GM takes all discussions away from the players, especially as I have been taught in any TTRPG that the rules are not solid set in stone, but more or less guidelines, that if followed as is can lead to fun times, but at the same time if followed strictly as is, does not allow room for any situations that the rules do not account for, such as the above case of not accounting for faster, or slower, swimming speeds.

First of all, are you talking about Dungeons and Dragons? The system in question has a lot to do with this kind of thing. There are games where a faster swim speed as as simple as having a trait of +1 swimming and games where the mere fact of giving the thing a swim speed at all puts it in a classification above most other things.

Lets assume you are talking D20. Look in the monster manual for a creature that could serve as a mount with a swim speed. Then, if you want it's swim speed to be faster then it normally is, it either needs to increase in CR or you need to see what other features you can take away from it.

Sorry, I thought it was clear in the title "Only War" being in the 40k universe. My bad for not putting it in the main text.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
So according to Only War rules, Movement Speed is governed by Agility, while Swimming Speed is governed by Athletics (Strength), with no apparent correlation between the two when it comes to swimming.

The mount I'm working on:
It has an Agility bonus of 5, but wanting it to be slightly slower on land while faster in water, so more of 8/16/24/48 or 9/18/27/54 on land while 10/20/30/60 in water, but movement speed in water is governed by Athletics (Strength), not Agility.

Strength modifier is 3, which means under normal swimming rules it moves at 1.5 meters per action, which would be the same swimming pace of a humanoid.

How can I make it to where its swimming speed is up to 2 times that of normal humanoid swimming and still keep the rest of the creature balanced?

Just set the swimming speed to 3 meters per action? Not sure why that's complicated, is there really a major balance issue if it swims faster without having some other major nerf to offset it?

So the 9/18/27/54 Movement Speed doesn't have to be adjusted?

Realistically, how much will swimming play in the campaign?

If it is a water-based campaign and in the water all the time, yeah you will want your GM to sign off on any changes. Chances are they would want some drawback in return.

If it is a "regular" campaign with the occasional river-crossing or where water may show up a small amount of time? Who cares about such a situational advantage?

Do not overthink RPGs as they are designed to be collaborative fun. The rules are ONLY guidelines for collaborative story-telling. There is no winning RPGs, there is only experiencing them.

Kaelgren wrote:
So the 9/18/27/54 Movement Speed doesn't have to be adjusted?

I don't know the specific rules for this game but probably not. Swimming is one of those things that falls into two categories:

1) You're playing a game in a normal setting, meaning swimming comes up only rarely and it's even rarer that it happens in a situation where you care about exact rules. "You swim across the river" doesn't care about exactly how many turns it takes, that only matters if you're in combat or otherwise time pressured. In this kind of game having better swim speed on a mount is an incredibly minor advantage and it's not worth worrying about exactly how to balance it. If the lore is that a mount should swim faster just give it a faster swim speed and move on.

2) You're playing a game in a water-heavy setting, meaning swimming is frequently relevant but everything is based on the assumption of being in the water all the time. It's taken for granted that you (and all of the NPCs) have mounts that are capable of swimming at a pace comparable to riding mounts on land because anyone who can't swim effectively isn't participating at all. In that setting having a higher than standard swim speed is the equivalent to having the ability to breathe, just a basic trait that doesn't need to be accounted for in balance decisions. Give everything an appropriate swim speed and move on.