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2024/01/06 20:31:15
Subject: [LI] Let’s List again, like we did last summer
Having painted two sets of infantry and built mostly everything I’m now in a position to start crafting lists. And as game wise we’re at the tip of the iceberg right now with limited commercially available options, I’m interested to compare notes. I’ve put my initial list below as a quote. You will note I’ve not yet listed tank loadouts. That’s not meant to be a sign of me being a dodgy geezer who’ll only decide once I know what you’re fielding. It’s just I cannot be arsed.
My first list wrote:
Dark Angels
Formation 1 – Legion Demi Company – 425 Points
Compulsories
HQ - Legion Command – 25 points
Core – Legion Tactical Detachment – 89 points
Tactical Legionaires, Tactical Legionaires, Missle Launcher Heavy Support Legionaires, Missile Launcher Heavy Support Legionaires
Core – Legion Tactical Detachment – 89 points
Tactical Legionaires, Tactical Legionaires, Plasma Tactical Support Legionaires, Plasma Tactical Support Legionaires
Support – Legion Assault Detachment – 42 points
Increase by 2
Optional
Support - Legion Terminator Detachment – 50 points
Support – Legion Dreadnought Talon – 130 points
2 x Contemptor Upgrade
Formation 2 – Legion Armoured Company – 905 points
Compulsories
Battle Tank – Legion Predator Squadron – 210 points
Increase by 3
Battle Tank – Legion Sicaran Squadron – 175 points
Increase by 2
Heavy Armour - Legion Kratos Squadron – 260 points
Increase by 2
Optional
Heavy Armour – Legion Kratos Squadron – 260 points
Increase by 2
And there you have it. Looking at the models, it seems a pretty flexible force. I’m largely sorted for Anti-Tank, as I modelled all my Tanks and Heavy Armour to have Lascannon sponsons, and I’ve plenty enough infantry to go beat up your infantry, because their Dad is bigger than your Dad. Probably.
Moving forward I’ve another set of Infantry to add, and I’ll be folding them into the existing Demi-Company. Got a couple of ideas on how.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Specifically, the new Missile Launchers and Plasma Guns will be attached to the existing Tactical Detachments.
As that frees up four bases of Bog Standard Marines, those will ship over to help form a Very Large Unit of Bog Standard Marines.
Assault and Terminators will of course go and join the existing Support Detachments.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2024/01/17 04:42:42
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guessing the tactical bods are one bunch to get up close and one bunch to stand back and help, in which case should be a decent force, certainly a good one to get some games under the belt with
marine infantry are actually not that bad at smacking other infantry about at close range with the double tap, of course they can suffer in the open but its all gravy
assault and terminator at decent sizes help too
2024/01/06 20:56:42
Subject: (LI) Let’s List again, like we did last summer
3 kratos with melta, 2 kratos with battle cannon. Meltas to bust any building cowardly solar auxilia will try to hide
Big with commander and small min squad in rhino's.
Thunderhawks will likely get 8 strong unit and maybe just assault marines. Bit of waste capacity but maybe I want to deep strike terminators. Or could put terminators in as well...
Though idea of 8 dreadnoughts delivered flying has certain appeal as well...
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2024/01/06 20:57:17
2024 painted/bought: 109/109
2024/01/06 20:58:27
Subject: (LI) Let’s List again, like we did last summer
Yeah. Rather than a dribble of this here and there, I wanted to give a focus to my Infantry.
Having one unit entirely Bog Standard gives me something relatively disposable, but which can also pile on a lot of light firepower, and potentially escort the Dreadnoughts, both units acting in concert to seize Objectives, with enough muscle to kick the snot out of anyone with the temerity to already be in residence.
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only drawback is you need something to guard a home objective, the rocket launcher unit is ok for this but may need to move forward and rely on shooting back to kill someone who drops by to say hello
but at 1k5 you lack the points to have an effective rear guard so maybe punching forwards, and eight Kratos have a unique way to knock on doors, may work.
the game seems to favour being aggressive
2024/01/06 21:23:27
Subject: (LI) Let’s List again, like we did last summer
Overall, whilst I could go another set of Infantry Sprues? The collection as it stands feels about Nice right now.
Certainly I don’t feel there are significant gaps in my tactical options - at least not until more models and Formations are released.
Bit undecided on how I want to expand/max out the Armoured Company though. Another four Kratos feels wasteful. But I think I’ll be in the market for a further box each of Predators and Sicarans. Nice mix of punch and speed between them.
This is of course all just theory at the moment. There’s plenty of time for the wailing and gnashing of teeth once I’ve got some in-game experience under my belt.
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Sicarans are weird, the look nice but the auto cannon is way too short ranged, when facing them its simple to sit onto first fire, they have to get closer or depend on the sponson, which cripples them in a duel.
do have a few of them as they look good which matters.
laser armed predators are very good, need more of them here. both are really just light/medium tanks, won't stand up to serious punishment but can put out some hurt, just don't expect them to survive doing it.
suspect keep them near the Kratos though and the big buggers will draw the fire and then your opponent may live to regret that
2024/01/06 21:48:12
Subject: (LI) Let’s List again, like we did last summer
True that. I guess. Still getting my head round the rules, let alone how they all interact in practice.
Something I am quite taken with is how cost effective this game can be. No, not cheap. But when I can add a couple of hundred points for £25 (after discount) I can’t say I’m left feeling ripped off.
Infantry aren’t quite as good in terms of pounds for points, but they’re still not awful.
Now to go read up on Warhounds. Might want to include a hunting pack.
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I think infantry are needed, the backbone of scoring points, but they need armour to protect them from enemy armour and enemy infantry.
while armour needs some protection from infantry - armour is harder to pin with a charge for example, but if the armour has already moved its dead meat
2024/01/07 01:20:00
Subject: (LI) Let’s List again, like we did last summer
Dark Angels Assault Legionaires seem rather handy a twinkling enemies out of Garrison.
Jump Pack gives me +1 to CAF, for +4 base. And Hexagrammaton gives me Phosphex to boot, so no Garrison CAF bonus. And in the first round, in the fairly safe assumption I charged? That’s +5 CAF.
Provided I don’t go up against anything especially fighty or that has a large unit size? They’re going straight out the nearest window. And probably doing so whilst on fire.
Heck, even my basic Tacticals are surprisingly good, as you get no CAF bonus (Phosphex again), and I’ll be on +3 for charging. Granted any dedicated close combat unit will be a 50/50 or so affair, but line infantry? I’ve a decent upper hand.
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This may also see a Warhound and potentially a knight or two added to this, and the opposing force outside the normal list building structure.
the Leman Russ are mostly Vanquishers, the Lightnings will have the anti-air and anti-tank missiles loaded, one lot of Rapier will be laser, the others thudd guns, the tarantula are flak battery stuff
thinking is the pioneers deploy forwards, and try to keep their heads down, tanks work one flank and try to get around the enemy to make space to grab objectives, marine infantry following up (on foot) with their tanks assisting or perhaps helping to hold the other flank
where the Titan fits is anyones game really, likely laser & Gatling bolter loadout
Death Guard ability will be used on any terrain around the enemy home objective ideally as the Auxilia don't have the immunity, if we have area terrain could use it on that on the flank the tanks ignore
will see how it goes
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Dark Angels Assault Legionaires seem rather handy a twinkling enemies out of Garrison.
Jump Pack gives me +1 to CAF, for +4 base. And Hexagrammaton gives me Phosphex to boot, so no Garrison CAF bonus. And in the first round, in the fairly safe assumption I charged? That’s +5 CAF.
Provided I don’t go up against anything especially fighty or that has a large unit size? They’re going straight out the nearest window. And probably doing so whilst on fire.
Heck, even my basic Tacticals are surprisingly good, as you get no CAF bonus (Phosphex again), and I’ll be on +3 for charging. Granted any dedicated close combat unit will be a 50/50 or so affair, but line infantry? I’ve a decent upper hand.
thing you need to watch for with assault bods is overwatch from defenders, yes its a six to hit, but eck it can hurt
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2024/01/07 22:59:17
2024/01/08 07:18:52
Subject: (LI) Let’s List again, like we did last summer
I’ve a reasonable enough chance of surviving Overwatch to make the risk well worth it. Especially against other Marines, where that +5 CAF is really gonna hurt them.
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Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: I’ve a reasonable enough chance of surviving Overwatch to make the risk well worth it. Especially against other Marines, where that +5 CAF is really gonna hurt them.
oh Assault marines hurt if they get in, and even if you loose a stand or two to overwatch (this is where basic tactical marines shine, double tap from bolters is a fair few dice) you will still hurt, may or may not wipe out but they will regret answering the door thinking the take away had arrived.
2024/01/08 09:03:49
Subject: (LI) Let’s List again, like we did last summer
Honey, what are you doing? These guys don’t use doors!
lol, the Pizza Express Marines come calling
and they make their own doors
which it must be said makes their home barracks a maintenance nightmare really, seriously the facilities guys hate the assault marines, and don't even talk about terminators where they can here, they only just got that floor fixed after last time
2024/01/14 09:53:06
Subject: Re:(LI) Let’s List again, like we did last summer
Well, here is how i will do it for my first 1500 for SA, keeping it super simple.
Sub-cohort: everything in one box, legate commander: 250p
sub-cohort 2: everything in one box, tactical command: 244p
Armored company: 8 russes + 1 baneblade: 460p
Armored company 2: 10 russes + 1 baneblade: 554p
total 1499p.
So, that will give me 4 commands, hopefully that is enugh, and 18 units in total to be activated. they will be minimum size and there is pros and cons to that, but for a small game like this i think it will be fine, it is a learn to play list anyways.
For the baneblades i will go one bane cannon and one hellhammer, both will be using heavy bolters sponsons. For the russes i will do 6 of them as vanquisher + lascannon and the rest battlecannon with heavy bolter. Right now the game is armor meta heavy, but i suspect that will change to infantry heavy as product avalibilty increases seeing how cheap a infantry formation is, and then standard battlecannon and heavy bolter on the russes will be better.
And that is basicly going to be the foundation. As time goes on and we get more units, this will naturaly change but as a basic SA learner, i think it is ok.
darkswordminiatures.com
gamersgrass.com
Collects: Wild West Exodus, SW Armada/Legion. Adeptus Titanicus, Dust1947.
2024/01/19 11:41:49
Subject: [LI] Let’s List again, like we did last summer
Having a think about how I want to utilise the Rhinos that I’m building.
Given the low points cost, I am of course using the upgrades available. Which will give me, across the two boxes, 8 armed with pintel Multi-meltas.
In the context of my list, I think I want to assign one to my Command Stand, and six of the remaining to my Plasma upgraded Tactical.
The theory there being when dismounted, I have a decent amount and variety of firepower. The Multi-meltas are decently pointed tank dissuasion, and the infantry carry enough firepower to be a decent threat to small and medium stuff, with the Plasma giving me some extra punch against armour.
Use it as a problem solver (rapid response if I’m being outflanked, as short of a Reaver Titan these guys have the oomph to threaten), or to be a thorny objective taker for my opponent to deal with.
The four with the Havoc Launchers will go to the purely Tactical squad, to give them some extra firepower, range and some kind of answer other than harsh language against armour.
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smallish "transport" choice of Rhinos I think is good, can shift anyone who needs it, counts for force morale (unlike dedicated ones) and can be quite a good objective grabber.
Not tried multi-melta ones (the STL I have lacked it) but I suspect they will do as a decent surprise, taking firepower beyond their worth to actually kill - just avoid them being the only armour a unit that can kill armour can see.
I suspect sending them in alongside actual tanks could do well also, hobsons choice on what to fire at
2024/01/19 13:24:55
Subject: [LI] Let’s List again, like we did last summer
It’s definitely almost certainly worth the relatively low cost of the upgrades.
But I’m now thinking maybe the Melta ones to the basic Tacticals. Use them aggressively to move up the board, without me losing much in the way of my army’s overall capabilities should they go Splat.
Army progress wise I’m definitely almost ready to seek an opponent!
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leopard wrote: smallish "transport" choice of Rhinos I think is good, can shift anyone who needs it, counts for force morale (unlike dedicated ones) and can be quite a good objective grabber.
Not tried multi-melta ones (the STL I have lacked it) but I suspect they will do as a decent surprise, taking firepower beyond their worth to actually kill - just avoid them being the only armour a unit that can kill armour can see.
I suspect sending them in alongside actual tanks could do well also, hobsons choice on what to fire at
Counting morale not that good. You need 2 to offset what death of 1 does. And opponent generally wants to kill them so that a) they don't just sit on objectives b) worse charge your tanks engage&pinning them.
Upgrades add significant cost increase to unit that will likely spend most game marching or charging before dying.
I wouldn't call 20/40% increase cheap...
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2024/01/19 14:11:15
2024 painted/bought: 109/109
2024/01/19 14:22:29
Subject: [LI] Let’s List again, like we did last summer
still quite a cheap unit for say four of them though, and counting for morale works if you keep them out of sight until you need them
if the enemy can see them you are doing it wrong, if the enemy is moving to get sight of them to kill them the enemy is now reacting to you - take advantage of this, thats one of his units not shooting at anything more valuable.
with dedicated transports I have one or two havoc launchers, to keep them cheap because as you note they will die - for a separate unit though they may have the potential to stay out of sight as a threat in being to any high value enemy units that have to close to, for example, use demolisher weapons
they will never be game changing, its somewhat ironic that they have to pay for weapon upgrades when tanks & titans don't but whatever on that
and that 20%/40% price uplift is per model, you don't have to upgrade the whole unit - though if you can, and keep them out of sight you have a unit thats going to take a disproportionate amount of effort to kill
2024/01/19 15:13:07
Subject: [LI] Let’s List again, like we did last summer
If every model doesn't upgrade it's even less effective to shoot them rather than charge enemy tanks from plastering your tanks with vanquishers etc though...
2024 painted/bought: 109/109
2024/01/19 15:52:24
Subject: [LI] Let’s List again, like we did last summer
tneva82 wrote: If every model doesn't upgrade it's even less effective to shoot them rather than charge enemy tanks from plastering your tanks with vanquishers etc though...
this is true, like everything is a compromise, depends what you expect from such a unit - for me it would be a threat in being and then at some point a suicidal charge to remove the final damage point or two from something expensive
2024/01/19 18:59:41
Subject: [LI] Let’s List again, like we did last summer
True. Good for you if I you find use for upgrades For me I drop them first if I run short of points as times I don't find better use march 18" for objective or some juicy tank unit to charge into within 18" rather few.
(personally would prefer rules to not encourage charging with rhino's so much...wouldn't even mind rule that denies charges with transport and dedicated transport slot units)
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2024/01/19 19:00:17
2024 painted/bought: 109/109
2024/01/19 21:10:08
Subject: [LI] Let’s List again, like we did last summer
Rhinos are pretty cheap at 10 points each. But, other than providing some speed and parking on objectives, they don’t really do much for you.
The upgrades are, as a percentage of the 10 point cost a hefty percentage increase. But, still only 2 or 4 points out of a pocket of several thousand.
And the investment gives flexibility to a unit, and makes them more of a threat far more expensive units would have to be assigned to destroy.
I mean, I’d never treat them as my first line of offence or defence. Not unless I’m feeling especially fruity and want heavy infantry spam. But a Multi-Melta on a Rhino might just be the “RKO Outta Nowhere” which plinks that last wound off a Warhound, or in a unit provide upset against main line battle tanks. Don’t need to wipe them out, just do enough damage to frustrate my opponent’s plan.
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one thing I think Flames of War gets right is vehicles cannot charge into other vehicles - yes it did happen in WW2, desperation more than routine though
let vehicles charge infantry and vice versa, but no tank v tank charges without some sort of special rule to specifically allow it
the rhino upgrades make a nice "how the heck do I use the last 50 points?"
2024/01/21 13:38:07
Subject: [LI] Let’s List again, like we did last summer
)
For me I drop them first if I run short of points as times I don't find better use march 18" for objective or some juicy tank unit to charge into within 18" rather few.